In honor of Black History month

[Asclepias]

O.W. Gurley
founder of Black Wall Street in Tulsa OK

 

[Trajan]

Perhaps because he's not an honorable man?

if you knew everything about a person, or certain people I think we'd all be in for a surprise re: who has honor or not, so let me speak to that from a backwoods place...........


I wasn't being humorous, I saw images of others who I thought were, well, imho to very celebratory(?)...thats my opinion, then we get to achievement, thats generally why people are celebrated, in my opinion.

he lead the nation in rushing in his first 2 years at college, won the Heisman in a walk his third etc. first player to 2000 yds in a regular ( old shorter) season, still holds the record for avg. yards in a season, set a world record in track....*shrugs* he was a stud.

Then yea, he had issues, we all are familiar with them so in the spirit of the thread, I'll pass on commenting etc......

if some feel he doesn't belong, well, ok, thats your opinion, I don't see myself as the curtain man for what AA's deserve recognition or don't.

Pixie was right. That is absolutely the funniest thing I think you have ever typed. And you know, heaven forfend you should man the fuck up and just own your own, right?

Right.

I pity you, seriously....

 

[BDBoop]

if you knew everything about a person, or certain people I think we'd all be in for a surprise re: who has honor or not, so let me speak to that from a backwoods place...........


I wasn't being humorous, I saw images of others who I thought were, well, imho to very celebratory(?)...thats my opinion, then we get to achievement, thats generally why people are celebrated, in my opinion.

he lead the nation in rushing in his first 2 years at college, won the Heisman in a walk his third etc. first player to 2000 yds in a regular ( old shorter) season, still holds the record for avg. yards in a season, set a world record in track....*shrugs* he was a stud.

Then yea, he had issues, we all are familiar with them so in the spirit of the thread, I'll pass on commenting etc......

if some feel he doesn't belong, well, ok, thats your opinion, I don't see myself as the curtain man for what AA's deserve recognition or don't.

Pixie was right. That is absolutely the funniest thing I think you have ever typed. And you know, heaven forfend you should man the fuck up and just own your own, right?

Right.

I pity you, seriously....

It's beyond mutual. You don't even know you have a problem.

 

[Flopper]

If we would simply evaluate people based on their own individual merits without regard to their skin color, racial hatred would disappear.

A noble sentiment. But I have a lingering feeling that racism persists because many people see a payoff in it; in their self-esteem bolstered by diminishing others, economically by creating a group more easily exploited, and a myriad of other social reasons embedded in the collective DNA of American society for four hundred years. I sense it will never disappear as long as so many find it useful.

The most ardent racist in the Old South were not politicians, wealthy whites, or the Southern Aristocracy. They were poor whites who saw the rise of the black man as competition for jobs and social status. There was many a poor white in the South who would say, "At least am better than those damn N..."

Attitudes on race are slow to change but I see so much difference in my kids and grand kids compared to my generation. This last weekend, my granddaughter had a sleepover with 5 girls. One was black, one was Chinese, two were white, and one was mixed races. I think someday, not in my lifetime, we will put racism behind us.

 

[Immanuel]

If we would simply evaluate people based on their own individual merits without regard to their skin color, racial hatred would disappear.

A noble sentiment. But I have a lingering feeling that racism persists because many people see a payoff in it; in their self-esteem bolstered by diminishing others, economically by creating a group more easily exploited, and a myriad of other social reasons embedded in the collective DNA of American society for four hundred years. I sense it will never disappear as long as so many find it useful.

The most ardent racist in the Old South were not politicians, wealthy whites, or the Southern Aristocracy. They were poor whites who saw the rise of the black man as competition for jobs and social status. There was many a poor white in the South who would say, "At least am better than those damn N..."

Attitudes on race are slow to change but I see so much difference in my kids and grand kids compared to my generation. This last weekend, my granddaughter had a sleepover with 5 girls. One was black, one was Chinese, two were white, and one was mixed races. I think someday, not in my lifetime, we will put racism behind us.

From your fingertips to God's computer monitor!

But, I think you have more faith in the human race than I do.

 

[Connery]

I am not faulting anybody who wants to recognize Black History Month. I hope I didn't come across as critical about it.

My point was purely to explain my personal reasons for why I won't be wearing the image of a black person to celebrate Black History month. I might do that because I admire a person who happens to be black, but I want our society to do away with racism. As Morgan Freeman explained, and as I tried to explain, we cannot do that if we continue to make an issue of skin color and continue to see people as black first and whatever else they are as secondary. To me, that in itself is racist.

I don't expect or require others to agree with me on that. It is just my effort to combat racism by not separating a group of people out as different because of the color of their skin.

The bolded sentence was the most powerful in your discourse. So say a person is a great Black person or great Hispanic person or great Italian is to further cause a racial divide. To me a person is known by their deeds not their skin color and that is what makes them a valued member of society. To celebrate one's ethnicity or race within the confirms of their family or group is a completely different story as my family did and I continue to do with my son through food, music and lore.

Exactly. I'm a pure mongrel with so many different components to my heritage that it looks like fruit basket turnover when we try to trace it on paper. But our multi-ethnic family has a lot of fun teasing each other about being so Italian or so Spanish or so Mexican or so Irish or so Texan or whatever. But we're all family first, Americans first, loved ones first and whatever the ethnicity is just part of what makes us interesting.

I think we will be a much less racist country when we take that attitude with all people instead of continuing to reinforce the idea that there are some of us who are different because their skin is black.

It is not the color of as person's skin, it is how pure their heart is, whether they have the courage of their convictions and can they stand tall for their friends in a time of need. Skin color is not a predicate for such things nor can this be taught in a school; people need to walk their walk in life and face those tests which life gives.

 

[Statistikhengst]

A noble sentiment. But I have a lingering feeling that racism persists because many people see a payoff in it; in their self-esteem bolstered by diminishing others, economically by creating a group more easily exploited, and a myriad of other social reasons embedded in the collective DNA of American society for four hundred years. I sense it will never disappear as long as so many find it useful.

The most ardent racist in the Old South were not politicians, wealthy whites, or the Southern Aristocracy. They were poor whites who saw the rise of the black man as competition for jobs and social status. There was many a poor white in the South who would say, "At least am better than those damn N..."

Attitudes on race are slow to change but I see so much difference in my kids and grand kids compared to my generation. This last weekend, my granddaughter had a sleepover with 5 girls. One was black, one was Chinese, two were white, and one was mixed races. I think someday, not in my lifetime, we will put racism behind us.

From your fingertips to God's computer monitor!

But, I think you have more faith in the human race than I do.

I hear he uses a tablet. A cosmic tablet.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If we would simply evaluate people based on their own individual merits without regard to their skin color, racial hatred would disappear.

A noble sentiment. But I have a lingering feeling that racism persists because many people see a payoff in it; in their self-esteem bolstered by diminishing others, economically by creating a group more easily exploited, and a myriad of other social reasons embedded in the collective DNA of American society for four hundred years. I sense it will never disappear as long as so many find it useful.

The most ardent racist in the Old South were not politicians, wealthy whites, or the Southern Aristocracy. They were poor whites who saw the rise of the black man as competition for jobs and social status. There was many a poor white in the South who would say, "At least am better than those damn N..."

Attitudes on race are slow to change but I see so much difference in my kids and grand kids compared to my generation. This last weekend, my granddaughter had a sleepover with 5 girls. One was black, one was Chinese, two were white, and one was mixed races. I think someday, not in my lifetime, we will put racism behind us.

To 'better'!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXkokyBlktA]The Beatles- It's Getting Better All The Time - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Flopper]

A noble sentiment. But I have a lingering feeling that racism persists because many people see a payoff in it; in their self-esteem bolstered by diminishing others, economically by creating a group more easily exploited, and a myriad of other social reasons embedded in the collective DNA of American society for four hundred years. I sense it will never disappear as long as so many find it useful.

The most ardent racist in the Old South were not politicians, wealthy whites, or the Southern Aristocracy. They were poor whites who saw the rise of the black man as competition for jobs and social status. There was many a poor white in the South who would say, "At least am better than those damn N..."

Attitudes on race are slow to change but I see so much difference in my kids and grand kids compared to my generation. This last weekend, my granddaughter had a sleepover with 5 girls. One was black, one was Chinese, two were white, and one was mixed races. I think someday, not in my lifetime, we will put racism behind us.

From your fingertips to God's computer monitor!

But, I think you have more faith in the human race than I do.

Maybe if you had seen the stuff I saw in the 50's and 60's in the South, you would see how far we've come. What we call racism today wouldn't even qualify as discrimination in those days. When I was about 8 years old, I saw an elderly black women literally thrown off a bus because she sat in a row that was marked White Only and not a single person said a word as the bus drove off and left her laying in the street. I had friends in high schools that considered it a real thrill to piss in a bottle, drive in a black area, call someone to the car and throw it in their face. In college, I returned to my room one day and found my roommate loading his rife and getting ready to go with his friends to Ole Miss to kill some Yankees and N..,

And don't think for a minute that it was just whites picking on blacks. There were plenty of white people that got beat up, robbed, and murdered although it's not publicized today.

In my family, if you said blacks should be treated as whites, you would say it only once. Blacks were dissented from monkeys, a strange twist on the theory evolution but it was commonly accepted among poor uneducated whites. Although blacks as a race were certainly hated, blacks as individuals were often loved and considered a member of the family. In other words, they were hated collectively and loved as individuals. Black people were to be pitied. God had cursed them by making them black. It was the duty of white people to take care of them just as they would take care of dumb animals.

We may have a ways to go, but we've come along way my friend.

 

[Asclepias]

Samuel Yette
No Uncle Tom in this man.
the author of the book THE CHOICE: The Issue of Black Survival in America

 

[Foxfyre]

The most ardent racist in the Old South were not politicians, wealthy whites, or the Southern Aristocracy. They were poor whites who saw the rise of the black man as competition for jobs and social status. There was many a poor white in the South who would say, "At least am better than those damn N..."

Attitudes on race are slow to change but I see so much difference in my kids and grand kids compared to my generation. This last weekend, my granddaughter had a sleepover with 5 girls. One was black, one was Chinese, two were white, and one was mixed races. I think someday, not in my lifetime, we will put racism behind us.

From your fingertips to God's computer monitor!

But, I think you have more faith in the human race than I do.

Maybe if you had seen the stuff I saw in the 50's and 60's in the South, you would see how far we've come. What we call racism today wouldn't even qualify as discrimination in those days. When I was about 8 years old, I saw an elderly black women literally thrown off a bus because she sat in a row that was marked White Only and not a single person said a word as the bus drove off and left her laying in the street. I had friends in high schools that considered it a real thrill to piss in a bottle, drive in a black area, call someone to the car and throw it in their face. In college, I returned to my room one day and found my roommate loading his rife and getting ready to go with his friends to Ole Miss to kill some Yankees and N..,

And don't think for a minute that it was just whites picking on blacks. There were plenty of white people that got beat up, robbed, and murdered although it's not publicized today.

In my family, if you said blacks should be treated as whites, you would say it only once. Blacks were dissented from monkeys, a strange twist on the theory evolution but it was commonly accepted among poor uneducated whites. Although blacks as a race were certainly hated, blacks as individuals were often loved and considered a member of the family. In other words, they were hated collectively and loved as individuals. Black people were to be pitied. God had cursed them by making them black. It was the duty of white people to take care of them just as they would take care of dumb animals.

We may have a ways to go, but we've come along way my friend.

I too grew up in the south but, though the hateful environment you describe no doubt existed in some places, my south was a different kind of south than what you describe. I was never exposed to the kind of violent hatred you speak of. In my town black and white worked amicably side by side, and though it was segregated--the black folk had to sit in the balcony at the movies and I was so jealous--it was a friendly and really happy culture.

And I am old enough to have witnessed the end of segregation and it happened in my town well before it was made mandatory. The nearest 'black' school was in a larger town 20 miles away and all the black kids had been bussed there for years when it dawned on the folks in my town how silly that was. And they voted for the blacks kids to go to school with us.

My mother and my mother's friends, all raised in a segregated culture, had to swallow hard when we kids would bring new black friends home to play and for dinner. They had never before sat at the same dinner table with a black person. But they all came through like troopers, allowing their common sense and intellect to override all that cultural conditioning. And the new black friends just instinctively seemed to understand the discomfort and they made it easier for us. And with a little practice, it became comfortable for everybody.

And now we Americans have collectively won that war. In my opinion we need to stop fighting it and appreciate and enjoy the peace. It seems so foolish to me to have gone through all that agony and necessary cultural upheaval to achieve color blindness, and now, when it is in our grasp, so many seem to go out of their way to keep it stirred up, in the forefront of people's mind, to see a racist behind every bush, and not allow people to just be people.

 

[oldfart]

If we would simply evaluate people based on their own individual merits without regard to their skin color, racial hatred would disappear.

A noble sentiment. But I have a lingering feeling that racism persists because many people see a payoff in it; in their self-esteem bolstered by diminishing others, economically by creating a group more easily exploited, and a myriad of other social reasons embedded in the collective DNA of American society for four hundred years. I sense it will never disappear as long as so many find it useful.

The most ardent racist in the Old South were not politicians, wealthy whites, or the Southern Aristocracy. They were poor whites who saw the rise of the black man as competition for jobs and social status. There was many a poor white in the South who would say, "At least am better than those damn N..."

Attitudes on race are slow to change but I see so much difference in my kids and grand kids compared to my generation. This last weekend, my granddaughter had a sleepover with 5 girls. One was black, one was Chinese, two were white, and one was mixed races. I think someday, not in my lifetime, we will put racism behind us.

I think racism is diminishing. Things that were once acceptable as public speech and behavior are no longer acceptable; racism has withdrawn into church and home. Each decade brings a new cohort of children who grow up without as much racist baggage as the previous one. Pockets of recidivism remain, but hopefully they get smaller. More people of all backgrounds aspire to participate in and change modern society.

But I have two things that bother me.

1. The change is slow and by no means irreversible. Powerful forces support a return to at least some of the old ways, some out of conviction and some out of desire to manipulate for political, social, and economic advantage.

2. As each generation is further removed from personal knowledge and experience of our past, they take much for granted and are therefore more vulnerable when racism flares up. I have no doubt that the next generation will be up to the task, but I think their vigilance is down and they will be surprised at how quickly and violently overt racism can re-emerge. That's why I think it is important for all Americans to have a better understanding of the civil rights movement and all movements that support individual freedom and liberty for all Americans.

As to your historical comment, you are correct to a large degree. Wealthy whites used racism as a tool to control both poor whites and blacks in maintaining a rotting social and economic structure for a century. Some of them believed the ideology themselves and others were more pragmatic; in the end it made little difference.

In the revisionist history of the South today we are blanking out the efforts of some whites in the South to protect and promote the interests of blacks. I am not saying there were a lot, but there were a significant number. "Black historians" may have a vested interest in portraying the civil rights movement as an exclusively black movement directed against an all white power structure. Some white historians may have an interest in the same portrayal to support the idea of a white Southern civilization under attack. But such agendas do not change what happened, and the record is there for anyone who wants to look.

Peace all.

Jamie

 

[oldfart]

And don't think for a minute that it was just whites picking on blacks. There were plenty of white people that got beat up, robbed, and murdered although it's not publicized today.

I missed this on first reading and should have incorporated this in my post. The mention of Ol' Miss puts this in 1962, if I'm not mistaken. That was a bit before my time, and I greatly appreciate you sharing a first hand account.

P.S. Although now retired, the Methodist chaplain at the University of Mississippi until recently was Rev Ed King. Yes, that Ed King.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I grew up in a segregated society and I soon discovered for myself that my black friends were no different to my white friends except it was the adults who prevented us from being together.

Today I can look through the pictures of my daughter's birthday parties and in all of them she is one of only a couple of white kids while the rest were from all parts of the world. Her generation has grown up colorblind to race in my opinion. They see people as individuals, not as being identified by something as superficial as skin pigmentation.

They are more accepting of different lifestyles too. Their friends had gay parents and so to them it is no big deal because a play date was a play date and they had the same fun. They openly accept their gay friends and it makes no sense to deny them the right to get married.

So We the People are slowly but surely moving towards the concept of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for All. BHM is a small step in that direction and at some point it might become redundant. But if it does because everyone is treated the same then that will be a good thing in my opinion. Right now we still have a way to go but the trend is moving in the right direction. Let's keep it moving until we get there.

Peace
DT

 

[oldfart]

I too grew up in the south but, though the hateful environment you describe no doubt existed in some places, my south was a different kind of south than what you describe. I was never exposed to the kind of violent hatred you speak of. In my town black and white worked amicably side by side, and though it was segregated--the black folk had to sit in the balcony at the movies and I was so jealous--it was a friendly and really happy culture.

And I am old enough to have witnessed the end of segregation and it happened in my town well before it was made mandatory. The nearest 'black' school was in a larger town 20 miles away and all the black kids had been bussed there for years when it dawned on the folks in my town how silly that was. And they voted for the blacks kids to go to school with us.

My mother and my mother's friends, all raised in a segregated culture, had to swallow hard when we kids would bring new black friends home to play and for dinner. They had never before sat at the same dinner table with a black person. But they all came through like troopers, allowing their common sense and intellect to override all that cultural conditioning. And the new black friends just instinctively seemed to understand the discomfort and they made it easier for us. And with a little practice, it became comfortable for everybody.

Thanks for sharing the history. Yes, in many parts of the south, good people of all races worked to bring about a better community. Other parts had violent confrontations. Mississippi was probably the most determined state to resist, but South Carolina and Alabama were not far behind.

I'll share a story. Rev Ed King is the figure sitting next to Anne Moody in the famous picture of the Jackson lunch counter sit in. Afterward the all-white Methodist conference he was a member of had a vote to expel him. He lost by about four votes out of about a hundred. Over the years he has talked with many of the pastors who voted that day. He can't figure out how he lost when all of those pastors remember voting for him! Anyway, he jointed the Central Conference (black Methodist churches) and served there. When he retired the Retirement Board had a problem on how to credit his service for his pension! It all worked out, and his last gig was as Methodist chaplain at the University of Mississippi.

I relate the story because in 1963 Mississippi, under immense pressure, almost half of the ministers supported Ed King. And afterward many who did not wanted to claim that they did. It makes for a good story and a counterweight to the idea of a monolithic white power structure supporting segregation.





And now we Americans have collectively won that war. In my opinion we need to stop fighting it and appreciate and enjoy the peace. It seems so foolish to me to have gone through all that agony and necessary cultural upheaval to achieve color blindness, and now, when it is in our grasp, so many seem to go out of their way to keep it stirred up, in the forefront of people's mind, to see a racist behind every bush, and not allow people to just be people.[/QUOTE]

 

[Asclepias]

I'm not racist, I just don't like the way black people smell.

If you are used to smelling like a wet dog, the clean smell of Black people would naturally be offensive to you.

 

[Flopper]

And don't think for a minute that it was just whites picking on blacks. There were plenty of white people that got beat up, robbed, and murdered although it's not publicized today.

I missed this on first reading and should have incorporated this in my post. The mention of Ol' Miss puts this in 1962, if I'm not mistaken. That was a bit before my time, and I greatly appreciate you sharing a first hand account.

P.S. Although now retired, the Methodist chaplain at the University of Mississippi until recently was Rev Ed King. Yes, that Ed King.

It was a turbulent time but an interesting part of our history. Many feared a mini-civil war developing around the Oxford campus. There was one major clash between segregationists and federal troops that left two dead. Governor Barnett was fined $10,000 and sentenced to jail for contempt, but the charges were later dismissed by the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. Bob Dylan sang about the incident in his song "Oxford Town". Meredith's actions are regarded as a pivotal moment in the history of civil rights in the United States. He graduated on August 18, 1963 with a degree in political science. Today there are over 3,000 black students at Ole Miss.

Ole Miss riot of 1962 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Federal Troops on Campus in preparation for the riots

 

[packerbacker]

when does poor whitey get their day in the sun? Every time a particular race or group of sexual deviants has their "month", the poor white, straight male is supposed to feel guilty for not being one of them. Gets very tiring apologizing for people that are no longer around and giving special rights and government programs to them paid for by me. Can't you people see that or are you blinded by the handouts.

 

[Asclepias]

when does poor whitey get their day in the sun? Every time a particular race or group of sexual deviants has their "month", the poor white, straight male is supposed to feel guilty for not being one of them. Gets very tiring apologizing for people that are no longer around and giving special rights and government programs to them paid for by me. Can't you people see that or are you blinded by the handouts.

You had your centuries in the sun during slavery and jim crow. You shouldn't feel guilty unless you either practice racism or wish you could. Who told you to apologize? You cant apologize for something you did not do. BHM is not for you. It is for those that are interested. Cant you see that history exposes the truth?

 

[Mertex]

I'm not much on parades and the such.....but I think MLK did a lot for black people and was responsible for changing the way our society as a whole was treating black people.
I think he deserves to be honored on a special day, and everyone that feels like marching in his honor is free and welcome to do it. After all, this is America, the Great Melting Pot, where people from all walks of life and races talk about Patriotism, Freedom and Equality........:
Those that oppose, well, let them eat cake......