In normal world, this is known as "fraud".

[Blues Man]

Yes, there is still a victim, the bank. The bank lost money.



And so far the legal system says YES, as it should.

So every person who pays over Kelly Blue Book estimates for a car has been defrauded?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So every person who pays over Kelly Blue Book estimates for a car has been defrauded?

over paying for a car is not a crime.

in my 45 years of buying cars I never once had anyone tell me what the car was wroth, just how much they wanted for it.

 

[Blues Man]

over paying for a car is not a crime.

in my 45 years of buying cars I never once had anyone tell me what the car was wroth, just how much they wanted for it.

So then asking for more than a car is worth is a crime?

And again I asked if the person who bought a car was defrauded not if he committed fraud

If I have a for sale sign on my truck and you aske me how much I want for it and I say 25K and you pay me 25K then you get home and find out that the KBB best estimate for that truck was 5K did I commit fraud or were you just stupid?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So then asking for more than a car is worth is a crime?

Nope. Unless the person makes the car look like a BMW when it is really a Yugo.

If I have a for sale sign on my truck and you aske me how much I want for it and I say 25K and you pay me 25K then you get home and find out that the KBB best estimate for that truck was 5K did I commit fraud or were you just stupid?

Just stupid since you did not commit any fraud by asking for more than it was worth. Notice you did not tell me it was worth 25k, just that you wanted that much.

 

[MinTrut]

In the normal world money lenders do their own homework and lend or not accordingly. In liberal idiot land TDS is all that's required to spout nonsense with no relation to reality.

Thread.

 

[Blues Man]

Nope. Unless the person makes the car look like a BMW when it is really a Yugo.



Just stupid since you did not commit any fraud by asking for more than it was worth. Notice you did not tell me it was worth 25k, just that you wanted that much.

It's your responsibility to make sure you are buying what you think you are buying.

And if I ask for a loan on a property that is more than the property is actually worth how is that fraud?

It is the lender's responsibility to ascertain the value of any assert that will be used as collateral. If they don't perform their due diligence and lend the money anyway that is the bank being stupid therefore no fraud.

And if no loan was given at all how can there be any fraud?

 

[Mac1958]

Nope. Unless the person makes the car look like a BMW when it is really a Yugo.



Just stupid since you did not commit any fraud by asking for more than it was worth. Notice you did not tell me it was worth 25k, just that you wanted that much.

They will not admit that lying on financial documents is illegal. They'll do anything to avoid admitting that.

SPECTACULARLY lying on financial documents is perfectly appropriate for someone like their hero, and they won't admit that, either.

They want desperately to believe he earned billions through intelligence and business savvy.

Hell, they sold their soul to him. They should have valued their soul higher.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

They will not admit that lying on financial documents is illegal. They'll do anything to avoid admitting that.

SPECTACULARLY lying on financial documents is perfectly appropriate for someone like their hero, and they won't admit that, either.

They want desperately to believe he earned billions through intelligence and business savvy.

Hell, they sold their soul to him. They should have valued their soul higher.

The odd part is that Blues is not even a Trumper, but then again he thinks that auto voter registration is a violation of the Constitution as well, so his understanding of the law is about 10 miles wide and an inch deep

 

[Blues Man]

They will not admit that lying on financial documents is illegal. They'll do anything to avoid admitting that.

SPECTACULARLY lying on financial documents is perfectly appropriate for someone like their hero, and they won't admit that, either.

They want to believe he earned billions through intelligence and business savvy.

Once again I am no Trump fan.

I am discussing the nature of fraud.

If I lie on a bank loan application it is still the responsibility of the bank to perform their due diligence and verify everything I say.

At any point they can't verify the data they deny the loan.

They don't then sue the applicant for fraud.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

It's your responsibility to make sure you are buying what you think you are buying.

And if I ask for a loan on a property that is more than the property is actually worth how is that fraud?

It is the lender's responsibility to ascertain the value of any assert that will be used as collateral. If they don't perform their due diligence and lend the money anyway that is the bank being stupid therefore no fraud.

And if no loan was given at all how can there be any fraud?

When you apply for the loan are you submitting documentation claiming the land is worthy more than it really is?

 

[Blues Man]

The odd part is that Blues is not even a Trumper, but then again he thinks that auto voter registration is a violation of the Constitution as well, so his understanding of the law is about 10 miles wide and an inch deep

It is.

Why aren't all males over the age of 18 automatically signed up for the draft?

Why aren't all people at the age of 21 issued a CCW permit?

What aren't all people who reach the age of 62 signed up for Social Security benefits?

The government does not have the right to put my name on a registered voter list.

 

[Blues Man]

When you apply for the loan are you submitting documentation claiming the land is worthy more than it really is?

Did Trump do that?

Even if he did no bank I know will accept that and they will require a third party appraisal by a person or company of their choosing.

It's called due diligence.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Not because they crave the attention.....

I don't recall Françoise Meyers holding rallies because of her constant need of attention.....and if you ask who she is, I rest my case....she could buy Trump, 8 times over......

wow one person.....if she was running for office im sure she would be speaking in front of crowds...

 

[Harpy Eagle]

It's your responsibility to make sure you are buying what you think you are buying.

And if I ask for a loan on a property that is more than the property is actually worth how is that fraud?

It is the lender's responsibility to ascertain the value of any assert that will be used as collateral. If they don't perform their due diligence and lend the money anyway that is the bank being stupid therefore no fraud.

And if no loan was given at all how can there be any fraud?

If someone calls my 75 year old neighbor and tricks them into giving up personal information by saying they are with the IRS, did that person really commit fraud since it is my 75 year old neighbor responsibility to make sure the person was really with the IRS?

 

[Blues Man]

If someone calls my 75 year old neighbor and tricks them into giving up personal information by saying they are with the IRS, did that person really commit fraud since it is my 75 year old neighbor responsibility to make sure the person was really with the IRS?

Should you verify that a person on the phone is actually who they say they are?

Yes

We are back to stupidity again.

And it is a crime to falsely impersonate a government agent so that's the crime here

 

[pknopp]

No.

What caused the crash was not a few people overestimating any properties.

It was caused by a variety of factors.

One was the near zero interest rates which prompted banks to give mortgages to people who never would have qualified because they would literally lose money if they didn't lend it., another was the runaway real estate market where the value of any property is determined solely by what someone would pay for it and yet another was the bundling of mortgages to be sold as derivatives

Just look at the last runaway real estate market during and just after Covid. That alone did not cause a crash similar to 2008

The near zero rates came after the crash.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Should you verify that a person on the phone is actually who they say they are?

Yes

So, then it is not fraud since the person did not do that.

Gotcha.

 

[Blues Man]

The near zero rates came after the crash.

in 2008?

No.

rates fell from 5% to 3% in 2008 and stayed there for 7 years

 

[Blues Man]

So, then it is not fraud since the person did not do that.

Gotcha.

I didn't say it was or wasn't fraud because I don't know if it was because the crime there would be the impersonation of a government agent.
And you conveniently edited out the rest of my reply


And then IF this guy's accounts were accessed it would be theft and wire fraud most likely

But just saying you are an IRS agent? Not sure if that is fraud

 

[Mac1958]

So every person who pays over Kelly Blue Book estimates for a car has been defrauded?

If you sign a financial document that is a clear lie, you have defrauded.

He has defended these documents and the dishonest valuations therein.

We have laws against that.