In response to Mac 1958 s thread regarding partisanship.

[sakinago]

One of my conservative friends were talking about restaurant regulations. He made a point that the rise in Food Trucks were a result of people not being able to afford restaurants because of things like upgrading stoves, gas lines, etc. For example: McDonald's could go to politicians and tell them a new fire safety system is best and should be required. McDonald's can afford this new system when the local breakfast joint cant and creates a financial hardship.

I can agree with situations like that.

I do too, this is not just limited to just the restaurant industry. Any major player in industry will lobby the government for more regulation even when it hurts them, BC in the long run they will stamp out new competition that cannot afford to do so, and make even more money, and have even more control of the market and pricing. Your example is a great illustration of that.

America actually has pretty much the worst internet service in the developed world, we're at least a decade behind. Why? The major players in communication and broadband got together lobbied the government, and made it impossible for any competition to effectively compete. You don't need a monopoly to gain the same benefits as a monopoly. And now we're stuck with really poor internet, and there's nothing to do about since we only have a few options that don't have to compete for our consumership.

 

[Correll]

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

Nothing significant comes to mind. The dems have moved beyond reason even on the issues that they HAD a point on.

 

[Pogo]

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

What does "opposition act or stance" mean?

Republicans' illegal immigrant policy, including stopping funding to sanctuary cities.
I'm not actually a Democrat, but folks here insist I'm a liberal, so I guess the above is "the opposition."

Zackly. What if one has no party or clique and simply takes each issue on its own?

I will never allow a label to be slapped on me without my consent. Soooo....

 

[Correll]

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

What does "opposition act or stance" mean?

He is asking you to name something, anything that the Right does or supports that you agree with.

 

[Correll]

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

I thought of one. Term limits. Generally been a right vs lefty thing, and I am against them along with the lefties.

 

[martybegan]

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

Legalization of Pot.

Single Payer if a State wants to do it.

Bathroom neutrality if States and Localities want to do it.

Spending on infrastructure (if it actually goes to construction/rehabilitation, not $$ for some massive program staff). Lines on the CAD drawing, shovels in the ground.

 

[Pogo]

For those not oriented to the binary political ailment, there is no 'opposition' position to favor; we favor what works no matter who presents it.

That right there ^^ --- "binary". Seems to me in order to proceed with this one has to first pigeonhole everything into one of two camps and slap labels on them, which is counterproductive. As soon as we go binary we jettison context, and that's poisonous.

Case in point:

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

I thought of one. Term limits. Generally been a right vs lefty thing, and I am against them along with the lefties.

Term limits is a "lefty" thing? News to me. I don't see why it should naturally be either. Why put it in a bag?

 

[KeiserC]

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

- Trump prematurely moved on the 'travel ban' should have had Sessions confirmed at the very least.
- Trump / Ryan's healthcare overall also should have waited until private sector viability had been fleshed out / facilitated

I don't think you understood the premise of the OP.

I think I do... gave x 2 instead of x 1 opposition stances that I "support" or "don't have a problem with"

You're claiming to be liberal then?

Conservative / Repub. by default... Proud Trump supporter!

 

[KeiserC]

For those not oriented to the binary political ailment, there is no 'opposition' position to favor; we favor what works no matter who presents it.

perhaps this OP is a bit too abstract in the critical thinking department for you....

 

[Iceweasel]

Tommy makes the same mistake Mac does. There are numerous things I don't like about the GOP party. A partisan goose steps behind his party. I'm a conservative, not a party member. I support conservative policies. If the Democrat party has one then please list it, haven't seen one since JFK.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

- Trump prematurely moved on the 'travel ban' should have had Sessions confirmed at the very least.
- Trump / Ryan's healthcare overall also should have waited until private sector viability had been fleshed out / facilitated

I don't think you understood the premise of the OP.

I think I do... gave x 2 instead of x 1 opposition stances that I "support" or "don't have a problem with"

You're claiming to be liberal then?

Conservative / Repub. by default... Proud Trump supporter!

So, how is the travel ban or the AHCA the opposition for you?

The OP meant the opposition party.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

For those not oriented to the binary political ailment, there is no 'opposition' position to favor; we favor what works no matter who presents it.

perhaps this OP is a bit too abstract in the critical thinking department for you....

^ Ironic

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Tommy makes the same mistake Mac does. There are numerous things I don't like about the GOP party. A partisan goose steps behind his party. I'm a conservative, not a party member. I support conservative policies. If the Democrat party has one then please list it, haven't seen one since JFK.

So there's nothing then?

 

[sakinago]

For those not oriented to the binary political ailment, there is no 'opposition' position to favor; we favor what works no matter who presents it.

That right there ^^ --- "binary". Seems to me in order to proceed with this one has to first pigeonhole everything into one of two camps and slap labels on them, which is counterproductive. As soon as we go binary we jettison context, and that's poisonous.

Case in point:

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

I thought of one. Term limits. Generally been a right vs lefty thing, and I am against them along with the lefties.

Term limits is a "lefty" thing? News to me. I don't see why it should naturally be either. Why put it in a bag?

It is a tad bit poisonous...but in this highly partisan climate, it is an exercise to help people stop thinking in binary terms. To help people see just because the people I vote for want this, doesn't mean I have to want it too.

The conversations are already poison, this can only help the way I see it Pogo.

 

[Pogo]

For those not oriented to the binary political ailment, there is no 'opposition' position to favor; we favor what works no matter who presents it.

perhaps this OP is a bit too abstract in the critical thinking department for you....

Your own previous post (29) exhibits exactly that binary trap.

"Conservative" does not mean "Republican by default". It means "conservative". And Rump doesn't fit in there either --- he's no conservative. Besides which, if you describe yourself as "conservative" ...... how come you have Teddy Roosevelt in your avatar?

There's no reason to hammer everything we see into black and white boxes, i.e. political parties. All that does is confine. Political parties do not exist to represent an ideology. They exist to consolidate power.

 

[Pogo]

For those not oriented to the binary political ailment, there is no 'opposition' position to favor; we favor what works no matter who presents it.

That right there ^^ --- "binary". Seems to me in order to proceed with this one has to first pigeonhole everything into one of two camps and slap labels on them, which is counterproductive. As soon as we go binary we jettison context, and that's poisonous.

Case in point:

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

I thought of one. Term limits. Generally been a right vs lefty thing, and I am against them along with the lefties.

Term limits is a "lefty" thing? News to me. I don't see why it should naturally be either. Why put it in a bag?

It is a tad bit poisonous...but in this highly partisan climate, it is an exercise to help people stop thinking in binary terms. To help people see just because the people I vote for want this, doesn't mean I have to want it too.

The conversations are already poison, this can only help the way I see it Pogo.

I see it as enabling the entire binary paradigm. Proceeding with this exercise at all requires that we first pigeonhole all ideas --- and even ourselves --- into one of two boxes. That's a poison that's already forced on us on this board......... why encourage it further?

OldLady for instance pointed out she's not a Democrat but gets labelled one. I get that too no matter how many times I point out I've never had a party. One wag has followed me around for years bellowing about "your shameful party" ---- which does not exist. Doesn't matter how many times I point that out, he never hears it. Others come nipping with taunts of "you kill babies" even though, not being female I have never posted anything about abortion at all. These are foisted on us by the binary-bots who insist on that infantile two-box system. "I don't care what you say, I'll tell you what you think". Which they think they can do because they, unilaterally, have put the other person in a box of their own creation. And again, the boxed entity has no say in it.

That's complete fucking bullshit. Because it means the binary-bot is bellowing and not listening. That's monologue, not dialogue. And monologue is all that is possible when one is locked in one side of a binary box.

That's why I religiously avoid blanket generalizations. Same poison.

 

[sakinago]

For those not oriented to the binary political ailment, there is no 'opposition' position to favor; we favor what works no matter who presents it.

That right there ^^ --- "binary". Seems to me in order to proceed with this one has to first pigeonhole everything into one of two camps and slap labels on them, which is counterproductive. As soon as we go binary we jettison context, and that's poisonous.

Case in point:

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

I thought of one. Term limits. Generally been a right vs lefty thing, and I am against them along with the lefties.

Term limits is a "lefty" thing? News to me. I don't see why it should naturally be either. Why put it in a bag?

It is a tad bit poisonous...but in this highly partisan climate, it is an exercise to help people stop thinking in binary terms. To help people see just because the people I vote for want this, doesn't mean I have to want it too.

The conversations are already poison, this can only help the way I see it Pogo.

I see it as enabling the entire binary paradigm. Proceeding with this exercise at all requires that we first pigeonhole all ideas --- and even ourselves --- into one of two boxes. That's a poison that's already forced on us on this board......... why encourage it further?

OldLady for instance pointed out she's not a Democrat but gets labelled one. I get that too no matter how many times I point out I've never had a party. One wag has followed me around for years bellowing about "your shameful party" ---- which does not exist. Doesn't matter how many times I point that out, he never hears it. Others come nipping with taunts of "you kill babies" even though, not being female I have never posted anything about abortion at all. These are foisted on us by the binary-bots who insist on that infantile two-box system. "I don't care what you say, I'll tell you what you think". Which they think they can do because they, unilaterally, have put the other person in a box of their own creation. And again, the boxed entity has no say in it.

That's complete fucking bullshit. Because it means the binary-bot is bellowing and not listening. That's monologue, not dialogue. And monologue is all that is possible when one is locked in one side of a binary box.

That's why I religiously avoid blanket generalizations. Same poison.

Agree 100% with you. What would you suggest to try to get people out of the box, and start honestly listening and honestly considering? If you call them out for being monolithic, they see that as just another tactic they need to ignore or defend against. I'm not sure what else to do.

I try to stay away from name calling, I try to stay away from getting frustrated, I try to politely use reason (very hard task). I'm out of ideas on how to get people out of their boxes.

 

[OldLady]

One of my conservative friends were talking about restaurant regulations. He made a point that the rise in Food Trucks were a result of people not being able to afford restaurants because of things like upgrading stoves, gas lines, etc. For example: McDonald's could go to politicians and tell them a new fire safety system is best and should be required. McDonald's can afford this new system when the local breakfast joint cant and creates a financial hardship.

I can agree with situations like that.

Being on the coast, we have wicked fresh seafood coming in all the time. People can't start up small businesses preparing it and selling it, though, because the regulations are so ridiculously stringent no one can possibly afford it. Especially selling cooked lobsters would make anyone a mint in the summer around here--fresh boiled and ready to crack. But the regs are onerous. Even having a seafood/fish retail store is impossible to navigate. You can buy seafood straight from the fisherman on the dock and prepare it yourself, or go to a restaurant. No in between.

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

What does "opposition act or stance" mean?

Republicans' illegal immigrant policy, including stopping funding to sanctuary cities.
I'm not actually a Democrat, but folks here insist I'm a liberal, so I guess the above is "the opposition."

Zackly. What if one has no party or clique and simply takes each issue on its own?

I will never allow a label to be slapped on me without my consent. Soooo....

I have a list of "labels" that have been put on me here without my consent, because some people can't envision life without a clique to get their ideas from. What's even funnier is their idea of what "the other side" is about. I think partisanship sometimes distorts everything.

 

[Pogo]

For those not oriented to the binary political ailment, there is no 'opposition' position to favor; we favor what works no matter who presents it.

That right there ^^ --- "binary". Seems to me in order to proceed with this one has to first pigeonhole everything into one of two camps and slap labels on them, which is counterproductive. As soon as we go binary we jettison context, and that's poisonous.

Case in point:

Its on the first page here and is an interesting thread regarding the corrosive effect of partisanship on the national experience.

The thread throws up interesting points along with some predictable partisanship.

I would like to throw out a challenge to all on here.

Please list one opposition act or stance that you either support or have no problem with.

Dont try and be clever about this. As a leading opinion former on here I can sniff out bullshit a mile off.

I will kick off. I have no problem with tory policies to reduce the amount of inheritance tax that people have to pay.

So there you go, play nice.

I thought of one. Term limits. Generally been a right vs lefty thing, and I am against them along with the lefties.

Term limits is a "lefty" thing? News to me. I don't see why it should naturally be either. Why put it in a bag?

It is a tad bit poisonous...but in this highly partisan climate, it is an exercise to help people stop thinking in binary terms. To help people see just because the people I vote for want this, doesn't mean I have to want it too.

The conversations are already poison, this can only help the way I see it Pogo.

I see it as enabling the entire binary paradigm. Proceeding with this exercise at all requires that we first pigeonhole all ideas --- and even ourselves --- into one of two boxes. That's a poison that's already forced on us on this board......... why encourage it further?

OldLady for instance pointed out she's not a Democrat but gets labelled one. I get that too no matter how many times I point out I've never had a party. One wag has followed me around for years bellowing about "your shameful party" ---- which does not exist. Doesn't matter how many times I point that out, he never hears it. Others come nipping with taunts of "you kill babies" even though, not being female I have never posted anything about abortion at all. These are foisted on us by the binary-bots who insist on that infantile two-box system. "I don't care what you say, I'll tell you what you think". Which they think they can do because they, unilaterally, have put the other person in a box of their own creation. And again, the boxed entity has no say in it.

That's complete fucking bullshit. Because it means the binary-bot is bellowing and not listening. That's monologue, not dialogue. And monologue is all that is possible when one is locked in one side of a binary box.

That's why I religiously avoid blanket generalizations. Same poison.

Agree 100% with you. What would you suggest to try to get people out of the box, and start honestly listening and honestly considering? If you call them out for being monolithic, they see that as just another tactic they need to ignore or defend against. I'm not sure what else to do.

I try to stay away from name calling, I try to stay away from getting frustrated, I try to politely use reason (very hard task). I'm out of ideas on how to get people out of their boxes.

I'm not sure, since I don't have a success story

I don't see name-calling as nearly the pitfall of binary thought. Name-calling is just frustration with the other party not hearing, and that can be expressed in myriad ways, though there are surely more productive ones. But once one decides the universe is all black and white with no middles or exceptions, one has locked onself into a prison of one's own making. Not easy to reach people who have already intentionally built walls to keep challenging ideas out.

 

[there4eyeM]

.[/QUOTE]
Being on the coast, we have wicked fresh seafood coming in all the time. People can't start up small businesses preparing it and selling it, though, because the regulations are so ridiculously stringent no one can possibly afford it. Especially selling cooked lobsters would make anyone a mint in the summer around here--fresh boiled and ready to crack. But the regs are onerous. Even having a seafood/fish retail store is impossible to navigate. You can buy seafood straight from the fisherman on the dock and prepare it yourself, or go to a restaurant. No in between.
[/QUOTE]

Anyone with a welder could slap together bicycle frames, too, but when it falls apart at over 25 kph, it can be fatal. Almost nothing is as perishable as seafood, so controls on its preparation, storage and transportation must necessarily be stringent. Remembering may be difficult, but the era before mandatory regulations was fraught with gross negligence and hazards.
Over regulation may exist, but this is not a 'left-right' issue. History shows what 'laissez faire' markets produce. This is exactly the fault line between general political views; what and how much social oversight. Anarchists and similar may argue 'zero', but otherwise, all reasonable persons admit social oversight is unavoidable.