Indians: Had Enough of the Mythology?

[PoliticalChic]

Who was the dolt who said " Before the settlers, the rivers were full of fishes and air was clean." ??????
Cabbie????
Again?








9. These 'Noble Savages' were responsible for the extinction of a number of animals.

‘One successful kill of a number of adult animals,’ wrote Wright, describing the effects on the ecosystem of a jump near Jackson Hole, ‘would have reduced the breeding potential of the local [bison] herd to a level where it was no longer a significant part of the valley ecosystem.'
Chase, Op.Cit., p. 99-100

"Until ten thousand years ago an incredible bestiary of mammals roamed North America.
These were the so-called mega-fauna, an exotic menagerie that included the woollymammoth, saber-toothed tiger, giant sloth, giant beaver, camel, horse, two-toed horse, and dire wolf. These were the dominant fauna on this continent for tens of millions of years. Then suddenly and mysteriously they disappeared."
Ibid.
Now...who could have destroyed all those animals??
There is no evidence of changing climate or habitat....



10. What happens to stone-age mentalities when they destroy the natural resources?

" When Lewis and Clark first met the Shoshone in 1805, they were starving. Their chieftold the explorers they had ‘nothing but berries to eat’...Another explorer, visiting the Lemhi...in 1811, described them as ‘the poorest and most miserable nation I everbeheld; having scarcely anything to subsist on except berries and a few fish’.
Ibid.

a. There is no evidence that tribal peoples ever worried about extinction, or indeed had any concept of it. As Wallace Kaufman points out in "No Turning Back," given the opportunity, they would pursue any prey species in whatever numbers were available, and often for reasons which were quite as frivolous as any associated with modern consumerist societies.


Want an example of said mentality?
Women of the Crow tribe wore dresses decorated with 700 elk teeth. As there were only two of these teeth per elk, each dress each such dress represented 350 slaughtered animals.
"The Crow Indians," by Robert H. Lowie and Phenocia Bauerle



So much for "Noble Savages" living in harmony with nature.

 

[koshergrl]

The entire idea of the "noble savage" as applied to Native Americans was pretty much the Europeans claimed that the Native Americans were actually ignoble savages to justify their systematic destruction of the tribes in America when they landed and in fact after the US was born.

No one believes that somehow NAs were perfect people and in fact they are just like everyone else. Some good, some bad. The entire argument is nothing but a strawman.

Cabbie believed it.


Good to see I was able to drag you, kicking and screaming, to the correct view.

No, he said they weren't a destructive culture. And in fact, compared to modern day civilization, they weren't. That doesn't mean they weren't guilty of mismanaging nature in some instances.

Good start.

Perhaps today you'd like to go further, and recognize that the slavery that they practiced was as bad as any other cultures that practiced slavery.

Nope. If they only enslaved whitey, you'd have a point.

Omg you ignorant plebe....they DID enslave whitey. They routinely slaughtered families and took the children as slaves. They also enslaved members of other tribes:

Cynthia Ann Parker - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mary Jemison - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Sacagawea - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Gads when I think you can't get any more stupid, you always surprise me. You should have learned this crap before you hit 2nd grade.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The entire idea of the "noble savage" as applied to Native Americans was pretty much the Europeans claimed that the Native Americans were actually ignoble savages to justify their systematic destruction of the tribes in America when they landed and in fact after the US was born.

No one believes that somehow NAs were perfect people and in fact they are just like everyone else. Some good, some bad. The entire argument is nothing but a strawman.

Cabbie believed it.


Good to see I was able to drag you, kicking and screaming, to the correct view.

No, he said they weren't a destructive culture. And in fact, compared to modern day civilization, they weren't. That doesn't mean they weren't guilty of mismanaging nature in some instances.

Good start.

Perhaps today you'd like to go further, and recognize that the slavery that they practiced was as bad as any other cultures that practiced slavery.

Nope. If they only enslaved whitey, you'd have a point.

Omg you ignorant plebe....they DID enslave whitey. They routinely slaughtered families and took the children as slaves. They also enslaved members of other tribes:

Cynthia Ann Parker - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mary Jemison - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Sacagawea - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Gads when I think you can't get any more stupid, you always surprise me. You should have learned this crap before you hit 2nd grade.

I will be adding specifics on that before the day is done.

Although your post, and this thread, corrects the Liberal memes, they won't admit it, nor learn from it.

Something about Liberalism: it tends to make ignorance indelible.

 

[whitehall]

The American Indians were busy committing genocide against each other before the crazy Whites showed up to furnish them with weapons that would make genocide more efficient. In modern times the Native Americans have adapted and established themselves in the gambling industry. What goes around comes around and only ignorant white liberals make a political issue about it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The American Indians were busy committing genocide against each other before the crazy Whites showed up to furnish them with weapons that would make genocide more efficient. In modern times the Native Americans have adapted and established themselves in the gambling industry. What goes around comes around and only ignorant white liberals make a political issue about it.

The term 'genocide' is not correct other than as an uninformed or as a colloquial term.

It only serves as a cudgel to use against early Americans.

 

[Ravi]

Who was the dolt who said " Before the settlers, the rivers were full of fishes and air was clean." ??????
Cabbie????
Again?








9. These 'Noble Savages' were responsible for the extinction of a number of animals.

‘One successful kill of a number of adult animals,’ wrote Wright, describing the effects on the ecosystem of a jump near Jackson Hole, ‘would have reduced the breeding potential of the local [bison] herd to a level where it was no longer a significant part of the valley ecosystem.'
Chase, Op.Cit., p. 99-100

"Until ten thousand years ago an incredible bestiary of mammals roamed North America.
These were the so-called mega-fauna, an exotic menagerie that included the woollymammoth, saber-toothed tiger, giant sloth, giant beaver, camel, horse, two-toed horse, and dire wolf. These were the dominant fauna on this continent for tens of millions of years. Then suddenly and mysteriously they disappeared."
Ibid.
Now...who could have destroyed all those animals??
There is no evidence of changing climate or habitat....



10. What happens to stone-age mentalities when they destroy the natural resources?

" When Lewis and Clark first met the Shoshone in 1805, they were starving. Their chieftold the explorers they had ‘nothing but berries to eat’...Another explorer, visiting the Lemhi...in 1811, described them as ‘the poorest and most miserable nation I everbeheld; having scarcely anything to subsist on except berries and a few fish’.
Ibid.

a. There is no evidence that tribal peoples ever worried about extinction, or indeed had any concept of it. As Wallace Kaufman points out in "No Turning Back," given the opportunity, they would pursue any prey species in whatever numbers were available, and often for reasons which were quite as frivolous as any associated with modern consumerist societies.


Want an example of said mentality?
Women of the Crow tribe wore dresses decorated with 700 elk teeth. As there were only two of these teeth per elk, each dress each such dress represented 350 slaughtered animals.
"The Crow Indians," by Robert H. Lowie and Phenocia Bauerle



So much for "Noble Savages" living in harmony with nature.

Dude. The saber toot tigers and the rest of those you've listed became extinct before Native Americans were Native Americans.

But wait! You are claiming mankind affects the environment! Progress!

 

[Ravi]

The entire idea of the "noble savage" as applied to Native Americans was pretty much the Europeans claimed that the Native Americans were actually ignoble savages to justify their systematic destruction of the tribes in America when they landed and in fact after the US was born.

No one believes that somehow NAs were perfect people and in fact they are just like everyone else. Some good, some bad. The entire argument is nothing but a strawman.

Cabbie believed it.


Good to see I was able to drag you, kicking and screaming, to the correct view.

No, he said they weren't a destructive culture. And in fact, compared to modern day civilization, they weren't. That doesn't mean they weren't guilty of mismanaging nature in some instances.

Good start.

Perhaps today you'd like to go further, and recognize that the slavery that they practiced was as bad as any other cultures that practiced slavery.

Nope. If they only enslaved whitey, you'd have a point.

Omg you ignorant plebe....they DID enslave whitey. They routinely slaughtered families and took the children as slaves. They also enslaved members of other tribes:

Cynthia Ann Parker - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mary Jemison - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Sacagawea - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Gads when I think you can't get any more stupid, you always surprise me. You should have learned this crap before you hit 2nd grade.

Thanks for admitting that they didn't enslave only one race of people like the Europeans and Americans did.

 

[koshergrl]

Nope, they were equal opportunity violent oppressors. Much like the Muslims of today. Anybody who wasn't like them was subject to torture, death, and enslavement.

Awesome! Obviously MUCH more advanced than the people who conquered them, using things like guns, and wheel-borne machinery.

 

[Ravi]

Not all tribes were violent and not all people in different tribes were violent.

kgrill, a racist through the ages.

 

[PoliticalChic]

11. And not just American Indians....

.....destruction of the environment was the culture of primitives in general!

a."...Central Mexico, where by 1519 food production pressures may have brought the Aztec civilization to the verge of collapse even without Spanish intervention. There is good evidence that severe soil erosion was already widespread, rather than just the result of subsequent European plowing, livestock, and deforestation."
Cook, S.F., and Borah, W., "Essays in Population History," Berkeley: University of California Press, Vol 3, 1971-79, pp.129-176,


b. "Analysis of sediment in Lake Patzcuaro, west of Mexico City, by Sara O’Hara and colleagues found that, in the centuries preceding the Mayan collapse, soil erosion was occurring at extraordinarily high levels. They concluded that this finding ‘explodes the myth that the indigenous peoples of central Mexico lived in harmony with the environment and didn’t practice environmentally damaging agriculture.'’
Robert Whelan, Op.Cit., p. 39


c.Charles Kay argues that Native Americans had no conservation ethic, but rather ‘acted in ways that maximized their individual fitness regardless of the impact on the environment’.
Kay, C.E., 'Aboriginal Overkill: The Role of Native Americans in Structuring Western Ecosystems', Human Nature, Vol. 5 No. 4, 1994, p.379


So....our "Noble Savage" was a destroyer of the environment in addition to all the other character flaws.



So....where, how are they comparable to the 'noble colonists' who built, cultivated, and created?

 

[koshergrl]

Who said they were, ravtard?

You forget my children and grandchildren are Indian and Mexican.

Oh wait, never mind. It's ravtard. Liar extraordinaire. I am eternally curious about how your habitual and compulsive lying affects your personal life. It can't be in a positive way.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Not all tribes were violent and not all people in different tribes were violent.

kgrill, a racist through the ages.

"Not all tribes were violent and not all people in different tribes were violent."

What a brilliant post!

It demonstrates......

...lots of time with the 24-hour All Cartoon Network.

 

[Ravi]

11. And not just American Indians....

.....destruction of the environment was the culture of primitives in general!

a."...Central Mexico, where by 1519 food production pressures may have brought the Aztec civilization to the verge of collapse even without Spanish intervention. There is good evidence that severe soil erosion was already widespread, rather than just the result of subsequent European plowing, livestock, and deforestation."
Cook, S.F., and Borah, W., "Essays in Population History," Berkeley: University of California Press, Vol 3, 1971-79, pp.129-176,


b. "Analysis of sediment in Lake Patzcuaro, west of Mexico City, by Sara O’Hara and colleagues found that, in the centuries preceding the Mayan collapse, soil erosion was occurring at extraordinarily high levels. They concluded that this finding ‘explodes the myth that the indigenous peoples of central Mexico lived in harmony with the environment and didn’t practice environmentally damaging agriculture.'’
Robert Whelan, Op.Cit., p. 39


c.Charles Kay argues that Native Americans had no conservation ethic, but rather ‘acted in ways that maximized their individual fitness regardless of the impact on the environment’.
Kay, C.E., 'Aboriginal Overkill: The Role of Native Americans in Structuring Western Ecosystems', Human Nature, Vol. 5 No. 4, 1994, p.379


So....our "Noble Savage" was a destroyer of the environment in addition to all the other character flaws.



So....where, how are they comparable to the 'noble colonists' who built, cultivated, and created?

Primitives? Destruction of the environment is native to all humans from the looks of things.

Way to show your ass, PC.

 

[Ravi]

Not all tribes were violent and not all people in different tribes were violent.

kgrill, a racist through the ages.

"Not all tribes were violent and not all people in different tribes were violent."

What a brilliant post!

It demonstrates......

...lots of time with the 24-hour All Cartoon Network.

Sorry, hon. I had to put it in simple terms so even a simpleton like yourself could understand.

Now, let's watch you fight the strawman some more

 

[Valerie]

nothing funnier than dopes and dupes acting like they could ever 'school' ravi on anything...

 

[Ravi]

nothing funnier than dopes and dupes acting like they could ever 'school' ravi on anything...

Someone could teach me how to change a tire. But then again, there's always AAA.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Who was the dolt who said " Before the settlers, the rivers were full of fishes and air was clean." ??????
Cabbie????
Again?








9. These 'Noble Savages' were responsible for the extinction of a number of animals.

‘One successful kill of a number of adult animals,’ wrote Wright, describing the effects on the ecosystem of a jump near Jackson Hole, ‘would have reduced the breeding potential of the local [bison] herd to a level where it was no longer a significant part of the valley ecosystem.'
Chase, Op.Cit., p. 99-100

"Until ten thousand years ago an incredible bestiary of mammals roamed North America.
These were the so-called mega-fauna, an exotic menagerie that included the woollymammoth, saber-toothed tiger, giant sloth, giant beaver, camel, horse, two-toed horse, and dire wolf. These were the dominant fauna on this continent for tens of millions of years. Then suddenly and mysteriously they disappeared."
Ibid.
Now...who could have destroyed all those animals??
There is no evidence of changing climate or habitat....



10. What happens to stone-age mentalities when they destroy the natural resources?

" When Lewis and Clark first met the Shoshone in 1805, they were starving. Their chieftold the explorers they had ‘nothing but berries to eat’...Another explorer, visiting the Lemhi...in 1811, described them as ‘the poorest and most miserable nation I everbeheld; having scarcely anything to subsist on except berries and a few fish’.
Ibid.

a. There is no evidence that tribal peoples ever worried about extinction, or indeed had any concept of it. As Wallace Kaufman points out in "No Turning Back," given the opportunity, they would pursue any prey species in whatever numbers were available, and often for reasons which were quite as frivolous as any associated with modern consumerist societies.


Want an example of said mentality?
Women of the Crow tribe wore dresses decorated with 700 elk teeth. As there were only two of these teeth per elk, each dress each such dress represented 350 slaughtered animals.
"The Crow Indians," by Robert H. Lowie and Phenocia Bauerle



So much for "Noble Savages" living in harmony with nature.

Dude.
Aww, it's so cute when you try to talk about things you don't understand.

But wait! You are claiming mankind affects the environment! Progress!

"
Aww, it's so cute when you try to talk about things you don't understand.

Aww, it's so cute when you try to talk about things you don't understand.

Who was the dolt who said " Before the settlers, the rivers were full of fishes and air was clean." ??????
Cabbie????
Again?








9. These 'Noble Savages' were responsible for the extinction of a number of animals.

‘One successful kill of a number of adult animals,’ wrote Wright, describing the effects on the ecosystem of a jump near Jackson Hole, ‘would have reduced the breeding potential of the local [bison] herd to a level where it was no longer a significant part of the valley ecosystem.'
Chase, Op.Cit., p. 99-100

"Until ten thousand years ago an incredible bestiary of mammals roamed North America.
These were the so-called mega-fauna, an exotic menagerie that included the woollymammoth, saber-toothed tiger, giant sloth, giant beaver, camel, horse, two-toed horse, and dire wolf. These were the dominant fauna on this continent for tens of millions of years. Then suddenly and mysteriously they disappeared."
Ibid.
Now...who could have destroyed all those animals??
There is no evidence of changing climate or habitat....



10. What happens to stone-age mentalities when they destroy the natural resources?

" When Lewis and Clark first met the Shoshone in 1805, they were starving. Their chieftold the explorers they had ‘nothing but berries to eat’...Another explorer, visiting the Lemhi...in 1811, described them as ‘the poorest and most miserable nation I everbeheld; having scarcely anything to subsist on except berries and a few fish’.
Ibid.

a. There is no evidence that tribal peoples ever worried about extinction, or indeed had any concept of it. As Wallace Kaufman points out in "No Turning Back," given the opportunity, they would pursue any prey species in whatever numbers were available, and often for reasons which were quite as frivolous as any associated with modern consumerist societies.


Want an example of said mentality?
Women of the Crow tribe wore dresses decorated with 700 elk teeth. As there were only two of these teeth per elk, each dress each such dress represented 350 slaughtered animals.
"The Crow Indians," by Robert H. Lowie and Phenocia Bauerle



So much for "Noble Savages" living in harmony with nature.

Dude. The saber toot tigers and the rest of those you've listed became extinct before Native Americans were Native Americans.

But wait! You are claiming mankind affects the environment! Progress!

"Dude. The saber toot (sic) tigers and the rest of those you've listed became extinct before Native Americans were Native Americans."

Wrong again.

The extinction of the megafauna coincides with the time the first tribes inhabited the continente.

1. "Saber-toothed cats, American lions, woolly mammoths and other giant creatures once roamed across the American landscape. However, at the end of the late Pleistocene about 12,000 years ago, these "megafauna" went extinct, a die-off called the Quaternary extinction."
Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats


2. "Prevailing ideas point to all Native Americans descending from ancient Siberians who moved across the Beringia land bridge between Asia and North America between 26,000 and 18,000 years ago. As time wore on, the thinking goes, these people spread southward and gave rise to the Native American populations encountered by European settlers centuries ago.
: History Travel Arts Science People Places Smithsonian



Perhaps you have a better memory than I......when was the last time you got anything right?

 

[Valerie]

nothing funnier than dopes and dupes acting like they could ever 'school' ravi on anything...

Someone could teach me how to change a tire. But then again, there's always AAA.

good point...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Nope, they were equal opportunity violent oppressors. Much like the Muslims of today. Anybody who wasn't like them was subject to torture, death, and enslavement.

Awesome! Obviously MUCH more advanced than the people who conquered them, using things like guns, and wheel-borne machinery.

Just primitives being primitive.

 

[PoliticalChic]

nothing funnier than dopes and dupes acting like they could ever 'school' ravi on anything...

You imbecile, get off your knees.

She hasn't been right once!

See if you can scrape her shoe-polish off your tongue.