Indians: Had Enough of the Mythology?

[Ravi]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

They'd be a target for the simple fact the indians didnt like being eaten by them.

The tigers ate herbivores. NAs weren't herbivores.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

The tigers ate herbivores. NAs weren't herbivores.

Very good point, I don't really know if their diet was so limited, I'll check on that.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why do you keep throwing around the noble savage strawman, PC?

I suggest, that based on what appears to by a severe form of short term memory loss, you should be back and re-read the OP.

You'll find that I prepared this thread based on what Cabbie wrote about the savages, the American Indians.
One by one, I have destroyed the Cabster's statements about the Indians.

His error is one that sits at the heart of Liberal hate-America doctrine, as raising the savage up is the proxy for slander of the colonists.

As my thesis is clearly undeniable, as shown in your attempts...all of which failed.....it seems that your retreat is now based on 'You're making this up....everyone knows all this about the Indians."

False.

As are your posts.

 

[Roadrunner]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Most likely the same land bridge that let horses out of North America, and the Asiatic hordes in, let diseases go both ways too.

I figure disease and a new predator, along with climate change, all played a part.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

They'd be a target for the simple fact the indians didnt like being eaten by them.

Not necessarily, If I'm hunting to feed my family, I'm not going to waste time hunting something that "might" kill me.

So while you and the guys are out hunting bambi you'll just leave the old lady at camp to become a large version of Friskies?
Or maybe when you send your kid down to the ole water hole so you can have the old lady boil up some tubers...
And the most obvious... they viewed them as competition for available food.

 

[Ravi]

Why do you keep throwing around the noble savage strawman, PC?

I suggest, that based on what appears to by a severe form of short term memory loss, you should be back and re-read the OP.

You'll find that I prepared this thread based on what Cabbie wrote about the savages, the American Indians.
One by one, I have destroyed the Cabster's statements about the Indians.

His error is one that sits at the heart of Liberal hate-America doctrine, as raising the savage up is the proxy for slander of the colonists.

As my thesis is clearly undeniable, as shown in your attempts...all of which failed.....it seems that your retreat is now based on 'You're making this up....everyone knows all this about the Indians."

False.

As are your posts.

You haven't destroyed anything. You've mischaracterized what he said and keep bringing up the strawman of noble savage.

It'd be really cool if you could be intellectually honest once in a while.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Why do you keep throwing around the noble savage strawman, PC?

I suggest, that based on what appears to by a severe form of short term memory loss, you should be back and re-read the OP.

You'll find that I prepared this thread based on what Cabbie wrote about the savages, the American Indians.
One by one, I have destroyed the Cabster's statements about the Indians.

His error is one that sits at the heart of Liberal hate-America doctrine, as raising the savage up is the proxy for slander of the colonists.

As my thesis is clearly undeniable, as shown in your attempts...all of which failed.....it seems that your retreat is now based on 'You're making this up....everyone knows all this about the Indians."

False.

As are your posts.

You never "destroyed" any of my arguments; unless, of course, your C&Ps somehow count as a vicarious form of plageristic evisceration.

Someone else's opinions appearing in quotes does not, in itself, constitute "Fact."

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

You haven't destroyed anything. You've mischaracterized what he said and keep bringing up the strawman of noble savage.

It'd be really cool if you could be intellectually honest once in a while.

I do not necessarily hold to the notion that native Americans were guiltless saints who could do no wrong, but genocide? Absolutely; to the point where there no longer are full-blooded natives left.

Did the US re-nig on just about any treaty that they ever agreed to? Of course they did.

Does that mean we should give it back? Hell no. We did what we did, but don't expect me to buy into the "poor hapless settlers" or "those godless heathen Injun's."

Somehow, my opening post is now some kind of liberal endorsement for Native Americans being innocent of all atrocities they might have committed!

Too funny!

 

[Roadrunner]

You haven't destroyed anything. You've mischaracterized what he said and keep bringing up the strawman of noble savage.

It'd be really cool if you could be intellectually honest once in a while.

I do not necessarily hold to the notion that native Americans were guiltless saints who could do no wrong, but genocide? Absolutely; to the point where there no longer are full-blooded natives left.

Did the US re-nig on just about any treaty that they ever agreed to? Of course they did.

Does that mean we should give it back? Hell no. We did what we did, but don't expect me to buy into the "poor hapless settlers" or "those godless heathen Injun's."

Somehow, my opening post is now some kind of liberal endorsement for Native Americans being innocent of all atrocities they might have committed!

Too funny!

Lo, the Poor Indian!!!

LMAO at that!

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

You haven't destroyed anything. You've mischaracterized what he said and keep bringing up the strawman of noble savage.

It'd be really cool if you could be intellectually honest once in a while.

I do not necessarily hold to the notion that native Americans were guiltless saints who could do no wrong, but genocide? Absolutely; to the point where there no longer are full-blooded natives left.

Did the US re-nig on just about any treaty that they ever agreed to? Of course they did.

Does that mean we should give it back? Hell no. We did what we did, but don't expect me to buy into the "poor hapless settlers" or "those godless heathen Injun's."

Somehow, my opening post is now some kind of liberal endorsement for Native Americans being innocent of all atrocities they might have committed!

Too funny!

Lo, the Poor Indian!!!

LMAO at that!

... And?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why do you keep throwing around the noble savage strawman, PC?

I suggest, that based on what appears to by a severe form of short term memory loss, you should be back and re-read the OP.

You'll find that I prepared this thread based on what Cabbie wrote about the savages, the American Indians.
One by one, I have destroyed the Cabster's statements about the Indians.

His error is one that sits at the heart of Liberal hate-America doctrine, as raising the savage up is the proxy for slander of the colonists.

As my thesis is clearly undeniable, as shown in your attempts...all of which failed.....it seems that your retreat is now based on 'You're making this up....everyone knows all this about the Indians."

False.

As are your posts.

You haven't destroyed anything. You've mischaracterized what he said and keep bringing up the strawman of noble savage.

It'd be really cool if you could be intellectually honest once in a while.

It'd be even cooler if you could be intellectual once in a while.

Bet you've heard that a lot, huh?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why do you keep throwing around the noble savage strawman, PC?

I suggest, that based on what appears to by a severe form of short term memory loss, you should be back and re-read the OP.

You'll find that I prepared this thread based on what Cabbie wrote about the savages, the American Indians.
One by one, I have destroyed the Cabster's statements about the Indians.

His error is one that sits at the heart of Liberal hate-America doctrine, as raising the savage up is the proxy for slander of the colonists.

As my thesis is clearly undeniable, as shown in your attempts...all of which failed.....it seems that your retreat is now based on 'You're making this up....everyone knows all this about the Indians."

False.

As are your posts.

You never "destroyed" any of my arguments; unless, of course, your C&Ps somehow count as a vicarious form of plageristic evisceration.

Someone else's opinions appearing in quotes does not, in itself, constitute "Fact."

Did you find any of the quotes I've provided that did not include links or sources?
No?
Well...then you're a liar, aren't you.

Folks tend to lie to get the egg off their faces when their statements are shredded....as I've done to your most closely held beliefs.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You haven't destroyed anything. You've mischaracterized what he said and keep bringing up the strawman of noble savage.

It'd be really cool if you could be intellectually honest once in a while.

I do not necessarily hold to the notion that native Americans were guiltless saints who could do no wrong, but genocide? Absolutely; to the point where there no longer are full-blooded natives left.

Did the US re-nig on just about any treaty that they ever agreed to? Of course they did.

Does that mean we should give it back? Hell no. We did what we did, but don't expect me to buy into the "poor hapless settlers" or "those godless heathen Injun's."

Somehow, my opening post is now some kind of liberal endorsement for Native Americans being innocent of all atrocities they might have committed!

Too funny!

So....you're running from your original statements?

Confederate General Wise, running from Union General Cox, refused to call it 'retreat,' called it, 'a retrograde movement.'

Nice retrograde movement you've made.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

So....you're running from your original statements?

Confederate General Wise, running from Union General Cox, refused to call it 'retreat,' called it, 'a retrograde movement.'

Nice retrograde movement you've made.

read my opening post, not exactly a hard stand against what you were presenting in the OP.

I neither agreed nor disagreed, my position was somewhere in the middle.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

I'm a liar, now?

OK.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

PC, you're thread is kind of boring. It's boring because YOU, yourself are boring.

You wouldn't be so boring if you weren't so predictable.

You're predictably boring.


ABRACADABRA.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'm a liar, now?

OK.

Did you say my work was plagiarized?

That makes you a liar.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC, you're thread is kind of boring. It's boring because YOU, yourself are boring.

You wouldn't be so boring if you weren't so predictable.

You're predictably boring.


ABRACADABRA.

White flag, huh?

And not in the most honorable form, either.

 

[PoliticalChic]

13. The description I provided of the savage behavior of the Indians must have been pretty powerful.....
...the silence was deafening.


Well....let's add some more fuel to that fire:

"...there is certainly no need to vilify them as "savages."

Sure about that????

The answer is both clear and indisputable: nothing could be more savage than the cultures we are discussing.


a. Craig Childs wrote in the NYTimes “A Past That Makes Us Squirm,” (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/opinion/02childs.html?_r=0) “children killed the same way, human sacrifices to an ancient water deity, their bodies buried under pre-Columbian ball courts or at the foot of pillars in important rooms,”... “archaeological record of the Americas read like a war-crimes indictment, with charred skeletons stacked like cordwood and innumerable human remains missing heads, legs and arms. In the American Southwest, which is my area of research, human tissue has been found cooked to the insides of kitchen jars and stained into a ceramic serving ladle. A grinding stone was found full of crushed human finger bones. A sample of human feces came up containing the remains of a cannibal’s meal.” Childs also refers to the accuracy of “ Mel Gibson’s movie ‘Apocalypto.’ “ How do we rectify the age-old perception of noble and peaceful native America with the reality that at times violence was coordinated on a scale never before witnessed by humanity? The answer is simple. We don’t.”




b. The Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago had a new permanent exhibit of pre-Columbian North America, "The Ancient Americas,’ which embodies the current themes of political correctness. P.J. O’Rourke, in the Weekly Standard, utterly destroys the simpletons who attempt to venerate the savages.... This brings us to the Maya and their abominable customs, nicely glossed.

.”. sacrifice has played a role in the religious beliefs of many people throughout history and in all parts of the world. ….

Some societies in the ancient Americas, like the Maya, practiced bloodletting or human sacrifice as part of their ceremonies or spiritual beliefs. Why? Anthropologists don't fully know.

The loathsome Aztec devoted most of their energy to human sacrifices, horrifying in extent and gruesome in technique. The Ancient Americas treats this in a moving-right-along manner.

From mild bloodletting to violent death, sacrifice offered thanks to the gods while maintaining the natural order of the world. The Spanish often emphasized accounts of bloodthirsty sacrifice to justify conquering the Aztec people.

Here, we reflect on the magnitude of loss inflicted on America's Indigenous peoples by European invasion. The exhibit points out that disease was the chief cause of suffering after European contact. Therefore, the horrors that beset The Ancient Americas following 1492 would have happened if the Niña, the Pinta, and the Santa María had been manned by Jimmy Carter, the Dalai Lama, and Bono." When Worlds Collide The Weekly Standard


c. .... the total number of lucky people who had their hearts cut out and sacrificed by the Aztecs is unknown. But historians are pretty sure that the number is somewhere between 300,000 and 1,500,000. " The Death Toll Comparison Breakdown Wait But Why




I hope this ends the absurdity of placing the American Indians on a pedestal, of attempting to ennoble them with attributes and titles which they don't deserve.

Of course it won't...as long as the myth serves the Liberal purpose.

 

[JoeB131]

So....the Africans committed genocide on the poor, innocent, unsuspecting Europeans by sending Bubonic Plague....??


You're a history-challenged moron.

Bubonic plague originated in Asia.