Indians: Had Enough of the Mythology?

[Roadrunner]

So....the Africans committed genocide on the poor, innocent, unsuspecting Europeans by sending Bubonic Plague....??


You're a history-challenged moron.

Bubonic plague originated in Asia.

Brought to Venice by Christian victims of Muslim biological warfare!

 

[JoeB131]

So....the Africans committed genocide on the poor, innocent, unsuspecting Europeans by sending Bubonic Plague....??


You're a history-challenged moron.

Bubonic plague originated in Asia.

Brought to Venice by Christian victims of Muslim biological warfare!

Yup, we knew we could count on you to up the crazy another notch.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

PC, you're thread is kind of boring. It's boring because YOU, yourself are boring.

You wouldn't be so boring if you weren't so predictable.

You're predictably boring.


ABRACADABRA.

White flag, huh?

And not in the most honorable form, either.

Correct, not up to explaining the same thing thirty times.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So....the Africans committed genocide on the poor, innocent, unsuspecting Europeans by sending Bubonic Plague....??


You're a history-challenged moron.

Bubonic plague originated in Asia.

Gee....another incorrect post by ErroneousJoe.....

Shocker.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So....the Africans committed genocide on the poor, innocent, unsuspecting Europeans by sending Bubonic Plague....??


You're a history-challenged moron.

Bubonic plague originated in Asia.

Brought to Venice by Christian victims of Muslim biological warfare!

Yup, we knew we could count on you to up the crazy another notch.

He's right...as usual, you're wrong.
Except...they weren't Muslim, as Islam was yet to be created.




Egypt was the granary, and when the disease appeared in Pelusium, about 541, it was at the terminus of the ancient world’s greatest riverine complex: the Nile delta, with access to all of the Mediterranean civilization.

Imagine a grain ship departing Alexandria for Constantinople, a journey of about 10 days to 2 weeks. It is the spring of 542, and Y. pestis has traveled from the east side of the delta to the west. Now it heads north, with the grain…and the rats. And the fleas. A day out, one sailor has a headache, fever, pain in the legs and back. Next day, two more. The first sailor has a painful swelling in the groin; next he is confused, with slurred speech. Eyes grow bloodshot, and blood starts to pool under the skin, causing black fingers and toes. Hallucinations follow. Tongues swell and speech cannot be understood. By the fourth day, almost all are dead. The last is coughing up blood as he stumbles into a village. As written by Procopius, “the disease always took its start from the coast…” Then the plague spread everywhere the Persian trade routes carried rats.
From "Justinian's Flea," by Rosen

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

So....the Africans committed genocide on the poor, innocent, unsuspecting Europeans by sending Bubonic Plague....??


You're a history-challenged moron.

Bubonic plague originated in Asia.

Gee....another incorrect post by ErroneousJoe.....

Shocker.

How so? DNA has clearly indicated that Bubonic plague or Yersinia pestis, is commonly present in populations of fleas carried by ground rodents, including marmots, in various areas including Central Asia, Kurdistan, Western Asia, Northern India and Uganda. If there is evidence of the plague pre-1300's.
EDIT: There was evidence of flee infestations of Yersinia pestis in Ancient Egypt, but to say that this caused Bubonic plague in Europe is flat-out wrong.

To mock Joe for telling you an empirical fact that you are not willing to accept, is rather disingenuous.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,
’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

PC, you laugh at people you debate with, as a weapon to discredit us and our arguments out of hand.

I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything. Please provide a link to indicate otherwise, you insufferable twit.

 

[Ravi]

PC is happy the "savages" were killed and contained by the Europeans.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC, you laugh at people you debate with, as a weapon to discredit us and our arguments out of hand.

I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything. Please provide a link to indicate otherwise, you insufferable twit.

I laugh at ignorance.

And, have no trouble both pointing and laughing.....and documenting what I post.

"I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything."
The post to which you are referring was created in response to you two begging to find a way to explain the extinctions sans blaming the savages.

You opened the door....I walked through it.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people from every continent) for mass extinctions.

Staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC is happy the "savages" were killed and contained by the Europeans.

You are dumber than a soup sandwich.

 

[Roadrunner]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

PC is happy the "savages" were killed and contained by the Europeans.

You are dumber than a soup sandwich.

Not you you though, we have treasures like this to verify that you graduated at the top of your class.

Good job.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

PC, you laugh at people you debate with, as a weapon to discredit us and our arguments out of hand.

I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything. Please provide a link to indicate otherwise, you insufferable twit.

I laugh at ignorance.

And, have no trouble both pointing and laughing.....and documenting what I post.

"I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything."
The post to which you are referring was created in response to you two begging to find a way to explain the extinctions sans blaming the savages.

You opened the door....I walked through it.

Please cut and paste (your specialty) the post where I indicated that my position was that native Americans did not cause extinctions.

I'll wait.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people from every continent) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

1. "...we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over."

a. Those 'native American' savages is a subset of the primitives world wide.
b. I documented said behavior in the entire group.



2. I showed the savagery of the 'native Americans' earlier, as follows:

These 'NobleSavages' were responsible for the extinction of a number of animals.

‘One successful kill of a number of adult animals,’ wrote Wright, describing the effects on the ecosystem of a jump near Jackson Hole, ‘would havereduced the breeding potential of the local [bison] herd to a level where it was no longer a significant part of the valley ecosystem.'
Chase, Op.Cit., p. 99-100

"Until ten thousand years ago an incredible bestiary of mammals roamed North America.
These were the so-called mega-fauna, an exotic menagerie that included the woollymammoth, saber-toothed tiger, giant sloth, giant beaver, camel, horse, two-toed horse, and dire wolf. These were the dominant fauna on this continent for tens of millions of years. Then suddenly and mysteriously they disappeared."
Ibid.
Now...who could have destroyed all those animals??
There is no evidence of changing climate or habitat....



3. Your partner in stupidity claimed,earlier...and corrected it, that the Indians could not have caused extinctions because they were not present....and I corrected that misapprehension....here:
The extinction of the megafauna coincides with the time the first tribes inhabited the continente.

a. "Saber-toothed cats, American lions, woolly mammoths andother giant creaturesonce roamed across the American landscape. However, at the end of the late Pleistocene about 12,000 years ago, these "megafauna" went extinct, a die-off called the Quaternary extinction."Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats


b. "Prevailing ideas point to all Native Americans descending from ancient Siberians who moved across theBeringia land bridgebetween Asia and North America between 26,000 and 18,000 years ago. As time wore on, the thinking goes, these people spread southward and gave rise to the Native American populations encountered by European settlers centuries ago.
:History Travel Arts Science People Places Smithsonian



So....your post is simply another attempt to find anything wrong with mine....and you've failed again.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

PC, you laugh at people you debate with, as a weapon to discredit us and our arguments out of hand.

I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything. Please provide a link to indicate otherwise, you insufferable twit.

I laugh at ignorance.

And, have no trouble both pointing and laughing.....and documenting what I post.

"I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything."
The post to which you are referring was created in response to you two begging to find a way to explain the extinctions sans blaming the savages.

You opened the door....I walked through it.

Translation:

Ignorance = anyone who is not lock-step with your right-wing lunacy.

 

[Roadrunner]

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

 

[Ravi]

PC, why do you hate Native Americans so much?