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The EMC Insurance Cos. insures 85 percent to 90 percent of all Kansas school districts and has refused to renew coverage for schools that permit teachers and custodians to carry concealed firearms on their campuses under the new law, which took effect July 1. It's not a political decision, but a financial one based on the riskier climate it estimates would be created, the insurer said.
"We've been writing school business for almost 40 years, and one of the underwriting guidelines we follow for schools is that any on-site armed security should be provided by uniformed, qualified law enforcement officers," said Mick Lovell, EMC's vice president for business development. "Our guidelines have not recently changed."
Insurance is all about risk and about pricing the cost of coverage in a way that correctly reflects it. That's one of the reasons many schools have gotten rid of their trampolines, he said.
"It's one thing to have a trained peace officer with a gun in school; it's a completely different situation when you have a custodian or a teacher with a gun," Skow said. "That changes the risk of insuring a school and magnifies it considerably."
snip
While a trampoline can hurt one person, modern weapons have the potential to kill many people very quickly, he said
Except they do know what to make of this: Too Risky
Except they do know what to make of this: Too Risky
In the Insurance Business, there is no such thing as "Too Risky".
There is only an 'inadequate premium'.
They're trying to learn how to rate this new risk. There is no history, no claims history on which to base their premium charge. Whole new breed of cat
And if the Insurance Commissioner disagrees with what they want to charge, He/She can step in and slam-dunk the Ins Company.
Easier to just walk away. I don't blame them.
"We've been writing school business for almost 40 years, and one of the underwriting guidelines we follow for schools is that any on-site armed security should be provided by uniformed, qualified law enforcement officers," said Mick Lovell, EMC's vice president for business development. "Our guidelines have not recently changed."
Except they do know what to make of this: Too Risky
In the Insurance Business, there is no such thing as "Too Risky".
There is only an 'inadequate premium'.
They're trying to learn how to rate this new risk. There is no history, no claims history on which to base their premium charge. Whole new breed of cat
And if the Insurance Commissioner disagrees with what they want to charge, He/She can step in and slam-dunk the Ins Company.
Easier to just walk away. I don't blame them.
"We've been writing school business for almost 40 years, and one of the underwriting guidelines we follow for schools is that any on-site armed security should be provided by uniformed, qualified law enforcement officers," said Mick Lovell, EMC's vice president for business development. "Our guidelines have not recently changed."
Here, have fun arguing with the quotes and tell them they didn't really mean what they said
Except they do know what to make of this: Too Risky
Except they do know what to make of this: Too Risky
In the Insurance Business, there is no such thing as "Too Risky".
There is only an 'inadequate premium'.
They're trying to learn how to rate this new risk. There is no history, no claims history on which to base their premium charge. Whole new breed of cat
And if the Insurance Commissioner disagrees with what they want to charge, He/She can step in and slam-dunk the Ins Company.
Easier to just walk away. I don't blame them.
"We've been writing school business for almost 40 years, and one of the underwriting guidelines we follow for schools is that any on-site armed security should be provided by uniformed, qualified law enforcement officers," said Mick Lovell, EMC's vice president for business development. "Our guidelines have not recently changed."
Here, have fun arguing with the quotes and tell them they didn't really mean what they said
In the Insurance Business, there is no such thing as "Too Risky".
There is only an 'inadequate premium'.
They're trying to learn how to rate this new risk. There is no history, no claims history on which to base their premium charge. Whole new breed of cat
And if the Insurance Commissioner disagrees with what they want to charge, He/She can step in and slam-dunk the Ins Company.
Easier to just walk away. I don't blame them.
"We've been writing school business for almost 40 years, and one of the underwriting guidelines we follow for schools is that any on-site armed security should be provided by uniformed, qualified law enforcement officers," said Mick Lovell, EMC's vice president for business development. "Our guidelines have not recently changed."
Here, have fun arguing with the quotes and tell them they didn't really mean what they said
There's a lot of that on this board. Quoting blogs as verifiable sources is another favorite.
In the Insurance Business, there is no such thing as "Too Risky".
There is only an 'inadequate premium'.
They're trying to learn how to rate this new risk. There is no history, no claims history on which to base their premium charge. Whole new breed of cat
And if the Insurance Commissioner disagrees with what they want to charge, He/She can step in and slam-dunk the Ins Company.
Easier to just walk away. I don't blame them.
"We've been writing school business for almost 40 years, and one of the underwriting guidelines we follow for schools is that any on-site armed security should be provided by uniformed, qualified law enforcement officers," said Mick Lovell, EMC's vice president for business development. "Our guidelines have not recently changed."
Here, have fun arguing with the quotes and tell them they didn't really mean what they said
You don't get it because you don't WANT to get it.
This is a new kind of animal. How could a responsible Insurance Executive say something like that when there is no history -- None -- Of School District arming Teachers and Custodians.
An intelligent reporter, or even a half-intelligent reader, would arrive at that conclusion without someone having to shove it up your ass.
There is no track record of arming Teachers. None. How can an Insurance Company rate something they have no experience, no claims experience, with?
I try to help out, I try to explain the real world and you just shift into stupid and rev it up until you get to hyper-stupid.
What other kind of 'Armed Security' has there ever been in Schools?
Scary Witches at Halloween?
Insurance Companies are notoriously risk averse.
They'll wait and see what happens then be in there competing for business again.
If I own a business, I might carry a gun on me at all times while I'm inside my business and I have no trouble getting Insurance for my Law Office, 7-Eleven, Pawn Shop, Delicatessen or Gas Station.
The Insurance Company just doesn't know what to think of this. It's all new. So they're going to sit back and look to see what happens.
Meanwhile, the School Districts should have no problem self-insuring
Insurance Companies are notoriously risk averse.
They'll wait and see what happens then be in there competing for business again.
If I own a business, I might carry a gun on me at all times while I'm inside my business and I have no trouble getting Insurance for my Law Office, 7-Eleven, Pawn Shop, Delicatessen or Gas Station.
The Insurance Company just doesn't know what to think of this. It's all new. So they're going to sit back and look to see what happens.
Meanwhile, the School Districts should have no problem self-insuring
No. They know exactly what to think of this. Allowing untrained school employees to walk around with weapsons is a huge liability risk and no insurer is going to take it on. And untrained is exactly what they are. All they need is a concealed carry permit and that only requires an 8 hour class. I'm not even sure it involves any range time. I'll bet not. A police officer not only has to qualify on the weapon, he/she has to train regularly and requalify to keep the weapon.
Insurance Companies are notoriously risk averse.
They'll wait and see what happens then be in there competing for business again.
If I own a business, I might carry a gun on me at all times while I'm inside my business and I have no trouble getting Insurance for my Law Office, 7-Eleven, Pawn Shop, Delicatessen or Gas Station.
The Insurance Company just doesn't know what to think of this. It's all new. So they're going to sit back and look to see what happens.
Meanwhile, the School Districts should have no problem self-insuring
No. They know exactly what to think of this. Allowing untrained school employees to walk around with weapsons is a huge liability risk and no insurer is going to take it on. And untrained is exactly what they are. All they need is a concealed carry permit and that only requires an 8 hour class. I'm not even sure it involves any range time. I'll bet not. A police officer not only has to qualify on the weapon, he/she has to train regularly and requalify to keep the weapon.
I have a feeling a large percentage of CCW carriers fire thier weapon far more often then most police officers.
One has to look at the crime rate for CCW's vs the general population AND armed officers to get a better risk analysis.
Crime rates for those who pass CCW requirements are very very low.
No. They know exactly what to think of this. Allowing untrained school employees to walk around with weapsons is a huge liability risk and no insurer is going to take it on. And untrained is exactly what they are. All they need is a concealed carry permit and that only requires an 8 hour class. I'm not even sure it involves any range time. I'll bet not. A police officer not only has to qualify on the weapon, he/she has to train regularly and requalify to keep the weapon.
I have a feeling a large percentage of CCW carriers fire thier weapon far more often then most police officers.
One has to look at the crime rate for CCW's vs the general population AND armed officers to get a better risk analysis.
Crime rates for those who pass CCW requirements are very very low.
I think your feeling is wildly inaccurate. I have multiple state permits and not a single one of them required I ever fire a weapon. I put in perhaps 3 to 4 hours a month on a range and I'll bet I am on the high end of the curve when it comes to CCW holders. All you are really saying is that CCW holders are less likely to hold up a 7-11 than non-holders, but that has absolutely nothing to do with their qualifications to carry a weapon in a child-rich environment. Allowing people to do that just because they took a class is like letting people drive a semi just because they passed the written test for their learner's permit.
Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds."
I have a feeling a large percentage of CCW carriers fire thier weapon far more often then most police officers.
One has to look at the crime rate for CCW's vs the general population AND armed officers to get a better risk analysis.
Crime rates for those who pass CCW requirements are very very low.
I think your feeling is wildly inaccurate. I have multiple state permits and not a single one of them required I ever fire a weapon. I put in perhaps 3 to 4 hours a month on a range and I'll bet I am on the high end of the curve when it comes to CCW holders. All you are really saying is that CCW holders are less likely to hold up a 7-11 than non-holders, but that has absolutely nothing to do with their qualifications to carry a weapon in a child-rich environment. Allowing people to do that just because they took a class is like letting people drive a semi just because they passed the written test for their learner's permit.
To be fair cops have issues when they shoot thier weapons as well
2 dead, 9 wounded in Empire State Building shootings, police say - CNN.com
Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds."
Once they establish that the numbers are in their favor they'll start writing policies otherwise other insurers will fill that void.
I think your feeling is wildly inaccurate. I have multiple state permits and not a single one of them required I ever fire a weapon. I put in perhaps 3 to 4 hours a month on a range and I'll bet I am on the high end of the curve when it comes to CCW holders. All you are really saying is that CCW holders are less likely to hold up a 7-11 than non-holders, but that has absolutely nothing to do with their qualifications to carry a weapon in a child-rich environment. Allowing people to do that just because they took a class is like letting people drive a semi just because they passed the written test for their learner's permit.
To be fair cops have issues when they shoot thier weapons as well
2 dead, 9 wounded in Empire State Building shootings, police say - CNN.com
Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds."
True. And they are trained. Now let us take that fact and apply it to thousands of untrained and unprepared people and put them in the middle of a bunch of kids. Sound like a good idea?
To be fair cops have issues when they shoot thier weapons as well
2 dead, 9 wounded in Empire State Building shootings, police say - CNN.com
True. And they are trained. Now let us take that fact and apply it to thousands of untrained and unprepared people and put them in the middle of a bunch of kids. Sound like a good idea?
If thats training, they need to look at thier methods again.
Find me a CCW who injured all sorts of bystanders with some spray and pray, and you may have a point to stand on.
