Interesting article on muslims in america

[bripat9643]

The Crusades were launched because Islam was trying to wipe out the Christian world. Most of the territory that is now Islam was once Christian. It was all converted through war and slaughter. Idiots like you ignore that history and focus on a few pathetic counter attacks launched by Christianity. Only idiots of your calibre are swallowing that "logic."

You mean the after the Christians tried to wipe out the Pagan world? And the territory that was then Christian was once Jewish and Pagan....man all those religious upstarts ....

Actually...the Crusades were launched because of a number of reasons but there is frantic religious historic revisionism going on in an attempt to white wash the crusades and the horrible slaughter occurred. Jeruselum and it's surrounding areas held a mix of Muslims, Jews and Christians under Muslim rulers (so much for forceable conversions). I think you need to "own" your own religious history of blood. Once a religion becomes a political power - life can suck for the non-members.

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

What bullshit. What absolute bullshit. Christian countries invaded and destroyed the cultures of non-Christian countries during hundreds of years of imperialism. Christian missionaries 'converted' people in those countries by decimating their cultures and bribing them with food, shelter, etc., and by manipulating them into believing that if they didn't convert to Christianity they would burn in hell. But mostly, the Christians had power, and the missionaries used that power to manipulate simple people into becoming 'Christians' in order to get rewards. They were not 'voluntarily converted to Christianity.' They were manipulated, bribed and frightened into it.

better than being beheaded, or buried neck deep and stoned to death.

It is true the more people have died in the name of religion than any other cause in the history of the world.

But we live in today's world and the only religion doing that today is Islam.

What percentage of anti-abortion terrorists are not Christian?

I think all two of them were Christians.

 

[bripat9643]

The Crusades were launched because Islam was trying to wipe out the Christian world. Most of the territory that is now Islam was once Christian. It was all converted through war and slaughter. Idiots like you ignore that history and focus on a few pathetic counter attacks launched by Christianity. Only idiots of your calibre are swallowing that "logic."

You mean the after the Christians tried to wipe out the Pagan world? And the territory that was then Christian was once Jewish and Pagan....man all those religious upstarts ....

Actually...the Crusades were launched because of a number of reasons but there is frantic religious historic revisionism going on in an attempt to white wash the crusades and the horrible slaughter occurred. Jeruselum and it's surrounding areas held a mix of Muslims, Jews and Christians under Muslim rulers (so much for forceable conversions). I think you need to "own" your own religious history of blood. Once a religion becomes a political power - life can suck for the non-members.

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

What bullshit. What absolute bullshit. Christian countries invaded and destroyed the cultures of non-Christian countries during hundreds of years of imperialism. Christian missionaries 'converted' people in those countries by decimating their cultures and bribing them with food, shelter, etc., and by manipulating them into believing that if they didn't convert to Christianity they would burn in hell. But mostly, the Christians had power, and the missionaries used that power to manipulate simple people into becoming 'Christians' in order to get rewards. They were not 'voluntarily converted to Christianity.' They were manipulated, bribed and frightened into it.

better than being beheaded, or buried neck deep and stoned to death.

It is true the more people have died in the name of religion than any other cause in the history of the world.

But we live in today's world and the only religion doing that today is Islam.

Some in Islam. Buried and stoned is hardly widespread in the Muslim world. Being beheaded - oddly, people get all upset at that but have no problem with people being grilled to death in an electric chair or hung by the neck or shot by a firing squad.

Right, I have no problem with murderers being electrocuted or hung. I do have a problem with people being electrocuted or hung simply because they aren't Christians. Muslims, on the other hand, don't have a problem with killing people because they aren't Muslim.

As always, you're comparing apples and oranges.

 

[bripat9643]

The Crusades were launched because Islam was trying to wipe out the Christian world. Most of the territory that is now Islam was once Christian. It was all converted through war and slaughter. Idiots like you ignore that history and focus on a few pathetic counter attacks launched by Christianity. Only idiots of your calibre are swallowing that "logic."

You mean the after the Christians tried to wipe out the Pagan world? And the territory that was then Christian was once Jewish and Pagan....man all those religious upstarts ....

Actually...the Crusades were launched because of a number of reasons but there is frantic religious historic revisionism going on in an attempt to white wash the crusades and the horrible slaughter occurred. Jeruselum and it's surrounding areas held a mix of Muslims, Jews and Christians under Muslim rulers (so much for forceable conversions). I think you need to "own" your own religious history of blood. Once a religion becomes a political power - life can suck for the non-members.

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

The Christian Church and its Persecutions of Pagans
Sample Chapter for Zagorin, P.: How the Idea of Religious Toleration Came to the West.

We're talking about conversion by conquest, not religious intolerance within the Roman Empire. That was impossible until Christianity became the dominant religion in the Empire.

"Religious intolerance" include forceable conversions (or did you miss that part)? That is "conquest" - subduing and destroying local religious traditions under the aim of enforcing one religion.

No one ever claimed that Christianity never did anything offensive. However, such things were departures from the faith, not the fundamental doctrine of the religion. On the other hand, conquest of infidel nations and the murder and forced conversion of non-believers is a fundamental doctrine of Islam. Muhammad himself stated these doctrines. Christ never told anyone to murder people because they didn't believe in him. Muhammad did. He personally slaughtered hundreds of people, raped women, and enslaved people.

Your desperate attempts to paint Islam is no different than Christianity continue to fail.

Baloney. It was very much a part of the fundamental doctrine as was "turning the other cheek" and was wide spread once Christianity attained a state of widespread political power. Look at the OT for inspiration (and despite claims by Christians that the OT doesn't count it has historically been used to justify violence). For example the passage "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" has been interpreted by Christians as a call to holy war. The only thing that has domesticated it is the removal of religion from government.

Where in the New Testament does it talk about using force or conquest to convert people to Christianity?

 

[Esmeralda]

You mean the after the Christians tried to wipe out the Pagan world? And the territory that was then Christian was once Jewish and Pagan....man all those religious upstarts ....

Actually...the Crusades were launched because of a number of reasons but there is frantic religious historic revisionism going on in an attempt to white wash the crusades and the horrible slaughter occurred. Jeruselum and it's surrounding areas held a mix of Muslims, Jews and Christians under Muslim rulers (so much for forceable conversions). I think you need to "own" your own religious history of blood. Once a religion becomes a political power - life can suck for the non-members.

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

What bullshit. What absolute bullshit. Christian countries invaded and destroyed the cultures of non-Christian countries during hundreds of years of imperialism. Christian missionaries 'converted' people in those countries by decimating their cultures and bribing them with food, shelter, etc., and by manipulating them into believing that if they didn't convert to Christianity they would burn in hell. But mostly, the Christians had power, and the missionaries used that power to manipulate simple people into becoming 'Christians' in order to get rewards. They were not 'voluntarily converted to Christianity.' They were manipulated, bribed and frightened into it.

better than being beheaded, or buried neck deep and stoned to death.

It is true the more people have died in the name of religion than any other cause in the history of the world.

But we live in today's world and the only religion doing that today is Islam.

Some in Islam. Buried and stoned is hardly widespread in the Muslim world. Being beheaded - oddly, people get all upset at that but have no problem with people being grilled to death in an electric chair or hung by the neck or shot by a firing squad.

Right, I have no problem with murderers being electrocuted or hung. I do have a problem with people being electrocuted or hung simply because they aren't Christians. Muslims, on the other hand, don't have a problem with killing people because they aren't Muslim.

As always, you're comparing apples and oranges.

Terrorists don't have a problem killing people regardless of who they are. They kill lots of Muslims too. It isn't Muslims who are killing people, it is terrorists who say they are Muslims. They are no more acting on behalf of Islam than the Westboro Baptist Church acts on behalf of Christianity.

Why can't you guys understand that? They are terroists saying they act on behalf of a religion, but they have a warped and twisted interpretation of that religion. They are sick nuts, not average, ordinary Muslim people.

 

[Syriusly]

Interestingly...these exact same sort of arguments have been made to "unAmericanize" other groups. A Catholic can't be a good American because he owes his allegience to the Pope. A Jew can't be a good American because he owes his allegience to Israel.

What a moronic OP.

Christians and jews are not taught to destroy non believers. Muslims are. that's the simple difference. like it or not.

Christians did a lot of destroying of unbelievers...much blood and carnage and forced conversions. No difference. Like it o not.

When? the Crusades? Do you know what the crusades were all about?
When and where were these so-called "forced conversions" ?

Actually, I wasn't thinking of the Crusades specifically but the overall history of Christianity and it's conquests. Forced conversions were routine in the conquests of the America's and the treatment of it's indiginous people's.

The Spanish conquista is an exception in the history of the Christianity. Most people became Christians through persuasion, not conquest. Islam, on the other hand, is an entirely different story. It's entire history is one of conquest.

No not really.

Christianity was imposed upon the entire Roman Empire when Constantine converted.
Then there was the Teutonic Crusades against the pagans of Northern Europe, the Hundreds Year War where Christians told other Christians to be the right Christian or die(reminiscent of Shia/Sunni and ISIS).

There were forced conversions of native peoples in Africa and in Asia.

Christians have a long history of violence against Christians and non-Christians.

Doesn't excuse Muslim violence that is occurring now, but Christianity has been used for an excuse for violence, just as Islam is being used now as an excuse for violence.

 

[Syriusly]

You mean the after the Christians tried to wipe out the Pagan world? And the territory that was then Christian was once Jewish and Pagan....man all those religious upstarts ....

Actually...the Crusades were launched because of a number of reasons but there is frantic religious historic revisionism going on in an attempt to white wash the crusades and the horrible slaughter occurred. Jeruselum and it's surrounding areas held a mix of Muslims, Jews and Christians under Muslim rulers (so much for forceable conversions). I think you need to "own" your own religious history of blood. Once a religion becomes a political power - life can suck for the non-members.

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

The Christian Church and its Persecutions of Pagans
Sample Chapter for Zagorin, P.: How the Idea of Religious Toleration Came to the West.

We're talking about conversion by conquest, not religious intolerance within the Roman Empire. That was impossible until Christianity became the dominant religion in the Empire.

"Religious intolerance" include forceable conversions (or did you miss that part)? That is "conquest" - subduing and destroying local religious traditions under the aim of enforcing one religion.

No one ever claimed that Christianity never did anything offensive. However, such things were departures from the faith, not the fundamental doctrine of the religion. On the other hand, conquest of infidel nations and the murder and forced conversion of non-believers is a fundamental doctrine of Islam. Muhammad himself stated these doctrines. Christ never told anyone to murder people because they didn't believe in him. Muhammad did. He personally slaughtered hundreds of people, raped women, and enslaved people.

Your desperate attempts to paint Islam is no different than Christianity continue to fail.

Baloney. It was very much a part of the fundamental doctrine as was "turning the other cheek" and was wide spread once Christianity attained a state of widespread political power. Look at the OT for inspiration (and despite claims by Christians that the OT doesn't count it has historically been used to justify violence). For example the passage "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" has been interpreted by Christians as a call to holy war. The only thing that has domesticated it is the removal of religion from government.

Where in the New Testament does it talk about using force or conquest to convert people to Christianity?

I don't know- sure have been a lot of Christians who believe that is what they were supposed to do.

Of course the New Testament doesn't say anything against abortion either- but Christians still believe somehow it is there.

 

[Redfish]

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

What bullshit. What absolute bullshit. Christian countries invaded and destroyed the cultures of non-Christian countries during hundreds of years of imperialism. Christian missionaries 'converted' people in those countries by decimating their cultures and bribing them with food, shelter, etc., and by manipulating them into believing that if they didn't convert to Christianity they would burn in hell. But mostly, the Christians had power, and the missionaries used that power to manipulate simple people into becoming 'Christians' in order to get rewards. They were not 'voluntarily converted to Christianity.' They were manipulated, bribed and frightened into it.

better than being beheaded, or buried neck deep and stoned to death.

It is true the more people have died in the name of religion than any other cause in the history of the world.

But we live in today's world and the only religion doing that today is Islam.

What percentage of anti-abortion terrorists are not Christian?

I don't know, but 100% of muslims are anti abortion. also 100% of Buddhists, hindus, and shintos as well as a large % of atheists. One does not have to be Christian to be opposed to murdering unborn human beings.

Apparently one has to be Christian to be an anti-abortion terrorist,

those people you tacitly support.

did you even bother to read my post? you dumbass libtard.

 

[Redfish]

I don't know, but 100% of muslims are anti abortion. also 100% of Buddhists, hindus, and shintos as well as a large % of atheists. One does not have to be Christian to be opposed to murdering unborn human beings.

In the US, it's tied to the Christian Right - and thus far, the anti-abortion terrorists have acted from a Christian perspective. Have any not been Christian?

Being anti abortion because of your personal views is the right of every person.

murdering an abortion doctor is a crime no matter why you do it. No true Christian would sanction murdering an abortion doctor any more than he/she would sanction murdering an unborn child.

That's such baloney. Christians do sanction people who attack abortion clinics and doctors.

Here's a lesson for you: Some Christians terroize abortion providers, even violently, even killing people. The mass of Christians in our society don't sanction such violence, but some do. Those Christians who believe such terrorism is wong do not speak out. They remain silent.

Some Muslims are terrorists and use violence too. The mass of Muslims do not sanction such violence (btw, the majority of people fighting ISIS are Muslim) and many do speak out against it but are not heard and not covered by the press.

You all must see a similarity in the acts of terrorism by Christians and by Muslims...in those who do not support terrorism, i.e., the vast majority of Christians and Muslims do not support terrorism. It is true that Muslims do speak out against terrorism, but their voices are seldom heard: the Western press does not cover it.

And it is a FACT that the majority of people fiighting ISIS are Muslim. Stope being a racist and bigot and see the reality.

the difference, which you appear to stupid to comprehend, is that islam teaches its followers to kill non-muslims, Christianity teaches its followers to love everyone regardless of his religion.

I am not saying that either group follows those teachings 100%, but this thread is about the ideology of islam and the OP is accurate on that.

No your thread is an attempt to demonize all Muslims. At least you could be man enough to admit that.

I have said many times that not all muslims are terrorists. do you even read what others post?

 

[Redfish]

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

The Christian Church and its Persecutions of Pagans
Sample Chapter for Zagorin, P.: How the Idea of Religious Toleration Came to the West.

We're talking about conversion by conquest, not religious intolerance within the Roman Empire. That was impossible until Christianity became the dominant religion in the Empire.

"Religious intolerance" include forceable conversions (or did you miss that part)? That is "conquest" - subduing and destroying local religious traditions under the aim of enforcing one religion.

No one ever claimed that Christianity never did anything offensive. However, such things were departures from the faith, not the fundamental doctrine of the religion. On the other hand, conquest of infidel nations and the murder and forced conversion of non-believers is a fundamental doctrine of Islam. Muhammad himself stated these doctrines. Christ never told anyone to murder people because they didn't believe in him. Muhammad did. He personally slaughtered hundreds of people, raped women, and enslaved people.

Your desperate attempts to paint Islam is no different than Christianity continue to fail.

Baloney. It was very much a part of the fundamental doctrine as was "turning the other cheek" and was wide spread once Christianity attained a state of widespread political power. Look at the OT for inspiration (and despite claims by Christians that the OT doesn't count it has historically been used to justify violence). For example the passage "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" has been interpreted by Christians as a call to holy war. The only thing that has domesticated it is the removal of religion from government.

Where in the New Testament does it talk about using force or conquest to convert people to Christianity?

I don't know- sure have been a lot of Christians who believe that is what they were supposed to do.

Of course the New Testament doesn't say anything against abortion either- but Christians still believe somehow it is there.

"thou shalt not kill" seems like that's in there somewhere.

 

[Redfish]

I don't know, but 100% of muslims are anti abortion. also 100% of Buddhists, hindus, and shintos as well as a large % of atheists. One does not have to be Christian to be opposed to murdering unborn human beings.

In the US, it's tied to the Christian Right - and thus far, the anti-abortion terrorists have acted from a Christian perspective. Have any not been Christian?

Being anti abortion because of your personal views is the right of every person.

murdering an abortion doctor is a crime no matter why you do it. No true Christian would sanction murdering an abortion doctor any more than he/she would sanction murdering an unborn child.

That's such baloney. Christians do sanction people who attack abortion clinics and doctors.

Here's a lesson for you: Some Christians terroize abortion providers, even violently, even killing people. The mass of Christians in our society don't sanction such violence, but some do. Those Christians who believe such terrorism is wong do not speak out. They remain silent.

Some Muslims are terrorists and use violence too. The mass of Muslims do not sanction such violence (btw, the majority of people fighting ISIS are Muslim) and many do speak out against it but are not heard and not covered by the press.

You all must see a similarity in the acts of terrorism by Christians and by Muslims...in those who do not support terrorism, i.e., the vast majority of Christians and Muslims do not support terrorism. It is true that Muslims do speak out against terrorism, but their voices are seldom heard: the Western press does not cover it.

And it is a FACT that the majority of people fiighting ISIS are Muslim. Stope being a racist and bigot and see the reality.

the difference, which you appear to stupid to comprehend, is that islam teaches its followers to kill non-muslims, Christianity teaches its followers to love everyone regardless of his religion.

I am not saying that either group follows those teachings 100%, but this thread is about the ideology of islam and the OP is accurate on that.

lol, so apparently you're not a Christian by your own definition.

Posting the truth about Islam is not in violation with any Christian teachings.

 

[Redfish]

Christians and jews are not taught to destroy non believers. Muslims are. that's the simple difference. like it or not.

Christians did a lot of destroying of unbelievers...much blood and carnage and forced conversions. No difference. Like it o not.

When? the Crusades? Do you know what the crusades were all about?
When and where were these so-called "forced conversions" ?

Actually, I wasn't thinking of the Crusades specifically but the overall history of Christianity and it's conquests. Forced conversions were routine in the conquests of the America's and the treatment of it's indiginous people's.

The Spanish conquista is an exception in the history of the Christianity. Most people became Christians through persuasion, not conquest. Islam, on the other hand, is an entirely different story. It's entire history is one of conquest.

No not really.

Christianity was imposed upon the entire Roman Empire when Constantine converted.
Then there was the Teutonic Crusades against the pagans of Northern Europe, the Hundreds Year War where Christians told other Christians to be the right Christian or die(reminiscent of Shia/Sunni and ISIS).

There were forced conversions of native peoples in Africa and in Asia.

Christians have a long history of violence against Christians and non-Christians.

Doesn't excuse Muslim violence that is occurring now, but Christianity has been used for an excuse for violence, just as Islam is being used now as an excuse for violence.

funny, you condemn past crimes of Christianity, but support muslim crimes today. hypocrisy or stupidity?

 

[Contumacious]

In the US, it's tied to the Christian Right - and thus far, the anti-abortion terrorists have acted from a Christian perspective. Have any not been Christian?

Being anti abortion because of your personal views is the right of every person.

murdering an abortion doctor is a crime no matter why you do it. No true Christian would sanction murdering an abortion doctor any more than he/she would sanction murdering an unborn child.

That's such baloney. Christians do sanction people who attack abortion clinics and doctors.

Here's a lesson for you: Some Christians terroize abortion providers, even violently, even killing people. The mass of Christians in our society don't sanction such violence, but some do. Those Christians who believe such terrorism is wong do not speak out. They remain silent.

Some Muslims are terrorists and use violence too. The mass of Muslims do not sanction such violence (btw, the majority of people fighting ISIS are Muslim) and many do speak out against it but are not heard and not covered by the press.

You all must see a similarity in the acts of terrorism by Christians and by Muslims...in those who do not support terrorism, i.e., the vast majority of Christians and Muslims do not support terrorism. It is true that Muslims do speak out against terrorism, but their voices are seldom heard: the Western press does not cover it.

And it is a FACT that the majority of people fiighting ISIS are Muslim. Stope being a racist and bigot and see the reality.

the difference, which you appear to stupid to comprehend, is that islam teaches its followers to kill non-muslims, Christianity teaches its followers to love everyone regardless of his religion.

I am not saying that either group follows those teachings 100%, but this thread is about the ideology of islam and the OP is accurate on that.

No your thread is an attempt to demonize all Muslims. At least you could be man enough to admit that.

Muslims have demonized themselves. All he did is post the facts.

Says the man who chooses to ignore inconvenient facts -

"Tell me my lying eyes are wrong"
bripat9643

Harry Truman

Was he acting as an American and within the US Constitution when in 1949 he allowed the Zionist minority to dispossess 1,500,000 Muslims in Palestine? After that those unfortunate people became foreigners in their own land. The zionists plans were to disappear them by any means necessary.

Bush I, Clinton, Bush II


Were they acting as Americans and within the US Constitution when the US invaded Iraq in 1990 and allowed to remain there for 18 years? How about the act of slaughtering millions of Iraqi women and children?

Obama

Was he acting as an American and within the US Constitution when he invaded Syria and destroyed that country forcing 9,000,000 Muslims to become international refugees?



We must first look at the US and determine whether our actions have provoked RETALIATORY attacks.

 

[bripat9643]

When? the Crusades? Do you know what the crusades were all about?
When and where were these so-called "forced conversions" ?

A thousand years of Catholic brutality against so-called 'heretics', for starters.

The Crusades were launched because Islam was trying to wipe out the Christian world. Most of the territory that is now Islam was once Christian. It was all converted through war and slaughter. Idiots like you ignore that history and focus on a few pathetic counter attacks launched by Christianity. Only idiots of your calibre are swallowing that "logic."

You mean the after the Christians tried to wipe out the Pagan world? And the territory that was then Christian was once Jewish and Pagan....man all those religious upstarts ....

Actually...the Crusades were launched because of a number of reasons but there is frantic religious historic revisionism going on in an attempt to white wash the crusades and the horrible slaughter occurred. Jeruselum and it's surrounding areas held a mix of Muslims, Jews and Christians under Muslim rulers (so much for forceable conversions). I think you need to "own" your own religious history of blood. Once a religion becomes a political power - life can suck for the non-members.

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

What bullshit. What absolute bullshit. Christian countries invaded and destroyed the cultures of non-Christian countries during hundreds of years of imperialism.

They didn't do it for the purpose of converting the population to Christianity, dipstick. That was an afterthought, and only the Spanish demonstrated any zeal at converting the native population to Christianity. The Dutch, British and French were only interest in material gain.

Christian missionaries 'converted' people in those countries by decimating their cultures and bribing them with food, shelter, etc., and by manipulating them into believing that if they didn't convert to Christianity they would burn in hell. But mostly, the Christians had power, and the missionaries used that power to manipulate simple people into becoming 'Christians' in order to get rewards. They were not 'voluntarily converted to Christianity.' They were manipulated, bribed and frightened into it.

Sorry to disabuse you have this notion, but anything short of the use of force is voluntary, by definition.

Modern politicians use all the same methods to loot the productive members of society.

 

[bripat9643]

The Crusades were launched because Islam was trying to wipe out the Christian world. Most of the territory that is now Islam was once Christian. It was all converted through war and slaughter. Idiots like you ignore that history and focus on a few pathetic counter attacks launched by Christianity. Only idiots of your calibre are swallowing that "logic."

You mean the after the Christians tried to wipe out the Pagan world? And the territory that was then Christian was once Jewish and Pagan....man all those religious upstarts ....

Actually...the Crusades were launched because of a number of reasons but there is frantic religious historic revisionism going on in an attempt to white wash the crusades and the horrible slaughter occurred. Jeruselum and it's surrounding areas held a mix of Muslims, Jews and Christians under Muslim rulers (so much for forceable conversions). I think you need to "own" your own religious history of blood. Once a religion becomes a political power - life can suck for the non-members.

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

The Christian Church and its Persecutions of Pagans
Sample Chapter for Zagorin, P.: How the Idea of Religious Toleration Came to the West.

We're talking about conversion by conquest, not religious intolerance within the Roman Empire. That was impossible until Christianity became the dominant religion in the Empire.

"Religious intolerance" include forceable conversions (or did you miss that part)? That is "conquest" - subduing and destroying local religious traditions under the aim of enforcing one religion.

No one ever claimed that Christianity never did anything offensive. However, such things were departures from the faith, not the fundamental doctrine of the religion. On the other hand, conquest of infidel nations and the murder and forced conversion of non-believers is a fundamental doctrine of Islam. Muhammad himself stated these doctrines. Christ never told anyone to murder people because they didn't believe in him. Muhammad did. He personally slaughtered hundreds of people, raped women, and enslaved people.

Your desperate attempts to paint Islam is no different than Christianity continue to fail.

Baloney. It was very much a part of the fundamental doctrine as was "turning the other cheek" and was wide spread once Christianity attained a state of widespread political power. Look at the OT for inspiration (and despite claims by Christians that the OT doesn't count it has historically been used to justify violence). For example the passage "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" has been interpreted by Christians as a call to holy war. The only thing that has domesticated it is the removal of religion from government.

Forcing your beliefs on a religious minority within your own country is not conversion by conquest. Libturds like you simply don't care about the meaning of words. You think they can mean whatever you want them to mean. That's how you justify all the stupid notions you are always putting forward.


Christianity is a product of the New Testament, not the Old Testament, so any references to the later work are pretty much irrelevant to the issue.

 

[bripat9643]

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

What bullshit. What absolute bullshit. Christian countries invaded and destroyed the cultures of non-Christian countries during hundreds of years of imperialism. Christian missionaries 'converted' people in those countries by decimating their cultures and bribing them with food, shelter, etc., and by manipulating them into believing that if they didn't convert to Christianity they would burn in hell. But mostly, the Christians had power, and the missionaries used that power to manipulate simple people into becoming 'Christians' in order to get rewards. They were not 'voluntarily converted to Christianity.' They were manipulated, bribed and frightened into it.

better than being beheaded, or buried neck deep and stoned to death.

It is true the more people have died in the name of religion than any other cause in the history of the world.

But we live in today's world and the only religion doing that today is Islam.

Some in Islam. Buried and stoned is hardly widespread in the Muslim world. Being beheaded - oddly, people get all upset at that but have no problem with people being grilled to death in an electric chair or hung by the neck or shot by a firing squad.

the difference is innocent vs guilty. sorry if that was too complex for you.

Are you implying that innocent people never get killed in non-Muslim systems? Be for real.

The issue isn't the the total death count in any society. The issue is whether they are killed because of their religious beliefs. Dishonest sleaze bags like you can't argue honestly and keep setting up straw men to know down.

 

[bripat9643]

A thousand years of Catholic brutality against so-called 'heretics', for starters.

The Crusades were launched because Islam was trying to wipe out the Christian world. Most of the territory that is now Islam was once Christian. It was all converted through war and slaughter. Idiots like you ignore that history and focus on a few pathetic counter attacks launched by Christianity. Only idiots of your calibre are swallowing that "logic."

You mean the after the Christians tried to wipe out the Pagan world? And the territory that was then Christian was once Jewish and Pagan....man all those religious upstarts ....

Actually...the Crusades were launched because of a number of reasons but there is frantic religious historic revisionism going on in an attempt to white wash the crusades and the horrible slaughter occurred. Jeruselum and it's surrounding areas held a mix of Muslims, Jews and Christians under Muslim rulers (so much for forceable conversions). I think you need to "own" your own religious history of blood. Once a religion becomes a political power - life can suck for the non-members.

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

What bullshit. What absolute bullshit. Christian countries invaded and destroyed the cultures of non-Christian countries during hundreds of years of imperialism. Christian missionaries 'converted' people in those countries by decimating their cultures and bribing them with food, shelter, etc., and by manipulating them into believing that if they didn't convert to Christianity they would burn in hell. But mostly, the Christians had power, and the missionaries used that power to manipulate simple people into becoming 'Christians' in order to get rewards. They were not 'voluntarily converted to Christianity.' They were manipulated, bribed and frightened into it.

Like with Islam - conversions were a mixture of voluntary, expedient and forced and that really is the history of the spread of religion in the ancient world. The conquering forces brought their own religion - soemtimes wiping out the old, sometimes tolerating it, sometimes mixing it together. It's silly to think that some how Christianity is "more special" than the others in this regard.

That is pure bullshit. The vast majority of Christians were converted by persuasion. That's true of almost every religion except Islam. It alone endorses conversion by the sword as a matter of doctrine.

 

[bripat9643]

The Crusades were launched because Islam was trying to wipe out the Christian world. Most of the territory that is now Islam was once Christian. It was all converted through war and slaughter. Idiots like you ignore that history and focus on a few pathetic counter attacks launched by Christianity. Only idiots of your calibre are swallowing that "logic."

You mean the after the Christians tried to wipe out the Pagan world? And the territory that was then Christian was once Jewish and Pagan....man all those religious upstarts ....

Actually...the Crusades were launched because of a number of reasons but there is frantic religious historic revisionism going on in an attempt to white wash the crusades and the horrible slaughter occurred. Jeruselum and it's surrounding areas held a mix of Muslims, Jews and Christians under Muslim rulers (so much for forceable conversions). I think you need to "own" your own religious history of blood. Once a religion becomes a political power - life can suck for the non-members.

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

What bullshit. What absolute bullshit. Christian countries invaded and destroyed the cultures of non-Christian countries during hundreds of years of imperialism. Christian missionaries 'converted' people in those countries by decimating their cultures and bribing them with food, shelter, etc., and by manipulating them into believing that if they didn't convert to Christianity they would burn in hell. But mostly, the Christians had power, and the missionaries used that power to manipulate simple people into becoming 'Christians' in order to get rewards. They were not 'voluntarily converted to Christianity.' They were manipulated, bribed and frightened into it.

better than being beheaded, or buried neck deep and stoned to death.

It is true the more people have died in the name of religion than any other cause in the history of the world.

But we live in today's world and the only religion doing that today is Islam.

Millions upon millions were killed, murdered, massacred, maimed, put in prisons, used as slaves, their language, culture, families destroyed. How can you defend the behavior of hundreds of years of imperialism which destoryed lives and cultures? How can you? Oh yeah, because they are Christian. Right.

That wasn't the result of Christian doctrine. It just happened to be Christians who were doing it. Wars and imperialism were killing people for thousands of years before Christianity ever existed. How many people do you think the Roman Empire killed before Christianity became its official religion? The answer is millions.

 

[bripat9643]

You mean the after the Christians tried to wipe out the Pagan world? And the territory that was then Christian was once Jewish and Pagan....man all those religious upstarts ....

Actually...the Crusades were launched because of a number of reasons but there is frantic religious historic revisionism going on in an attempt to white wash the crusades and the horrible slaughter occurred. Jeruselum and it's surrounding areas held a mix of Muslims, Jews and Christians under Muslim rulers (so much for forceable conversions). I think you need to "own" your own religious history of blood. Once a religion becomes a political power - life can suck for the non-members.

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

What bullshit. What absolute bullshit. Christian countries invaded and destroyed the cultures of non-Christian countries during hundreds of years of imperialism. Christian missionaries 'converted' people in those countries by decimating their cultures and bribing them with food, shelter, etc., and by manipulating them into believing that if they didn't convert to Christianity they would burn in hell. But mostly, the Christians had power, and the missionaries used that power to manipulate simple people into becoming 'Christians' in order to get rewards. They were not 'voluntarily converted to Christianity.' They were manipulated, bribed and frightened into it.

better than being beheaded, or buried neck deep and stoned to death.

It is true the more people have died in the name of religion than any other cause in the history of the world.

But we live in today's world and the only religion doing that today is Islam.

Millions upon millions were killed, murdered, massacred, maimed, put in prisons, used as slaves, their language, culture, families destroyed. How can you defend the behavior of hundreds of years of imperialism which destoryed lives and cultures? How can you? Oh yeah, because they are Christian. Right.

your premise that imperialism was based on Christianity is flawed, as are most of your premises.

True, that would hardly explain the Roman conquest of almost the entire known world at the time.

 

[bripat9643]

Christians didn't "wipe out" the pagan world. Pagans for the most part voluntarily converted to Christianity.

Your understanding of history is mostly the product of propaganda.

What bullshit. What absolute bullshit. Christian countries invaded and destroyed the cultures of non-Christian countries during hundreds of years of imperialism. Christian missionaries 'converted' people in those countries by decimating their cultures and bribing them with food, shelter, etc., and by manipulating them into believing that if they didn't convert to Christianity they would burn in hell. But mostly, the Christians had power, and the missionaries used that power to manipulate simple people into becoming 'Christians' in order to get rewards. They were not 'voluntarily converted to Christianity.' They were manipulated, bribed and frightened into it.

better than being beheaded, or buried neck deep and stoned to death.

It is true the more people have died in the name of religion than any other cause in the history of the world.

But we live in today's world and the only religion doing that today is Islam.

What percentage of anti-abortion terrorists are not Christian?

I don't know, but 100% of muslims are anti abortion. also 100% of Buddhists, hindus, and shintos as well as a large % of atheists. One does not have to be Christian to be opposed to murdering unborn human beings.

In the US, it's tied to the Christian Right - and thus far, the anti-abortion terrorists have acted from a Christian perspective. Have any not been Christian?

Right, both of them were Christians.

 

[bripat9643]

better than being beheaded, or buried neck deep and stoned to death.

It is true the more people have died in the name of religion than any other cause in the history of the world.

But we live in today's world and the only religion doing that today is Islam.

Some in Islam. Buried and stoned is hardly widespread in the Muslim world. Being beheaded - oddly, people get all upset at that but have no problem with people being grilled to death in an electric chair or hung by the neck or shot by a firing squad.

the difference is innocent vs guilty. sorry if that was too complex for you.

Are you implying that innocent people never get killed in non-Muslim systems? Be for real.

of course they have, but not because they refused to participate or believe in a certain religion.

Islam is the only religion today that is murdering innocents in the name of religion, you can spin and bring up the past, but that fact cannot be denied.

Agree, they are the only ones with a death penalty for apostates and that is something those legal systems will need to change. Not sure how that makes any difference in the fact that Christians were guilty of forced conversions.

That isn't Christian religious doctrine, moron. That may have been the policy of some rulers, but you can't hold the faith responsible for every way people who claim to support it choose to interpret it. Unfortunately, in the case of Islam, slaughtering non believers is a central article of the faith. Muhammad himself not only endorsed it, he participated in it. There is simply no comparison.