IRAQ: Was it worth it?

[Samson]

For a little historic perspective: Every major conflict in the bloody 20th century happened during a democrat administration. Woodie Wilson told Americans that he would never send their sons to fight in a foreign war and then he or his wife sent the Doughboys off to save France from the Hun. Was 100,000 American lives worth it? Hitler and FDR rose in power at around the same time. FDR's foreign policy was so incoherent that Hitler was killing Jews while FDR was asking Germany to repay it's WW1 war debt. FDR's negligence in the Pacific cost 3,000 lives in Pearl Harbor and about 10,000 wasted in the Battan Death March four months later. Harry Truman was busy downsizing the Military when NK invaded SK and his mismanagement cost the lives of about 50,000 Americans in three years. LBJ set the rules so that the US could win every battle in Vietnam and still lose the war. Just when it seemed that the VC was exhausted and defeated democrats pulled the plug and abandoned the effort. Iraq was a brilliant example of the greatest Military on the planet even though democrats undermined the mission every step of the way.

Interesting.

The only reason Western Europe remained free after WWII was because of the lesson learned from WWI: Europeans cannot be left to their own affairs. Our military remains there TODAY.

Why would we believe we would be able to exit Iraq?


Why would we now believe we could exit A'Stan?

We still have Troops on the 38th parallel in Korea. Nobody seems to remember that Americans beat back the NK and even took the NK capital city of Pyongyang. The NK were thoroughly defeated but an ego trip by a possibly mentally impaired old WW1 general led the US into the biggest ambush in history. We have Troops in Bosnia after Clinton's DNA on Monica's dress caused the bombing of Yugoslavia. Democrats forced our exit from Iraq because they always thought they could "blame it on Bush".

Another good example.

 

[Lakhota]

Whitehall ignores the fact that it was under McArthur that the UN troops took the NK capitol as well as walked into the Red Chinese ambush.

Whitehall's 'DNA Theory' is laughable.

As are all far right and far left (Lahkota) conspiracy theory nuts.

Two things, Jake:

1. Learn to spell Lakhota.

2. Prove me wrong.

 

[Samson]

Whitehall ignores the fact that it was under McArthur that the UN troops took the NK capitol as well as walked into the Red Chinese ambush.

Reading is not exactly your strength:

Americans beat back the NK and even took the NK capital city of Pyongyang. The NK were thoroughly defeated but an ego trip by a possibly mentally impaired old WW1 general led the US into the biggest ambush in history.

 

[Samson]

Whitehall ignores the fact that it was under McArthur that the UN troops took the NK capitol as well as walked into the Red Chinese ambush.

Whitehall's 'DNA Theory' is laughable.

As are all far right and far left (Lahkota) conspiracy theory nuts.

Two things, Jake:

1. Learn to spell Lakhota.

2. Prove me wrong.

1. No one gives a fuck about spelling Lakoda

2. All conspiracy theory nuts say: "Prove me wrong."

 

[Toro]

No.

3,300 Americans died and tens of thousands wounded. It cost something like $700 billion.

So no, it wasn't worth it.

 

[Samson]

No.

3,300 Americans died and tens of thousands wounded. It cost something like $700 billion.

So no, it wasn't worth it.

Would it have been worth it had a nuclear warhead been found?

 

[whitehall]

It was not worth 4500 American lives for Bush to get revenge against Saddam for trying to assassinate his daddy.

Exactly. Saddam had good reason for hating Daddy Bush after being suckered into invading Kuwait.

Bush Suckered Saddam Into Invading Kuwait

What was Congress's excuse for supporting the mission. Did 36% of democrats really plead insanity? It should be noted for historic perspective that Bush let congress mull over their vote for almost a year. How long did Truman give congress in Korea? Answer: Truman didn't consult with congress when he illegally sent Troops to Korea on a presidential edict. The difference of course is in the media's perspective. The mainstream never met a democrat they didn't support so Truman's war became the "forgotten war" even though American Troops never forgot it and made sure Truman wouldn't either.

 

[Toro]

No.

3,300 Americans died and tens of thousands wounded. It cost something like $700 billion.

So no, it wasn't worth it.

Would it have been worth it had a nuclear warhead been found?

I don't know.

But that's a counter-factual. Nothing was found. You don't send thousands of Americans to their deaths and blow nearly a trillion dollars on faulty intelligence.

 

[Samson]

No.

3,300 Americans died and tens of thousands wounded. It cost something like $700 billion.

So no, it wasn't worth it.

Would it have been worth it had a nuclear warhead been found?

I don't know.

But that's a counter-factual. Nothing was found. You don't send thousands of Americans to their deaths and blow nearly a trillion dollars on faulty intelligence.

The intelligence was only faulty AFTER the invasion.

My point is that you are correct: It wasn't worth it. However, the only way we could come to that conclusion is in hindsight.

The same hindsight that we now use to view intelligence reports that the Iraqi military was ready for US Troop withdrawl. Obviously, they were not, but how would Obama know this certainty until AFTERWARDS?

 

[Peach]

Yep.

We created a huge number of veterans, all needing lifelong care.
While half the government advocated massive budget cuts to the same federal government that would care for them.

I love American. I'll never "hate" America. But I do HATE some of the decisions we have made.

I agree. The Iraq disaster was the worst military decision in decades.

 

[whitehall]

Bill Clinton told Americans that Saddam was developing WMD's. The CIA never contradicted him. Dianne Feinstein told Americans that Saddam was developing WMD's and the CIA never contradicted her. Granted the CIA hasn't been on top of much since they let Lee Oswald slip through their fingers and were caught napping while the freaking 9-11 terrorists were attending flight school. They couldn't even find two Russian Terrorists in Boston when their names were in the phone book. The CIA is redundant and sloppy and has been used as a political tool by democrat administrations since JFK raised a Cuban invasion army.

 

[Toro]

The intelligence was only faulty AFTER the invasion.

The intelligence was flimsy before the invasion. It wasn't enough to send thousands of Americans to their deaths.

 

[Peach]

No.

3,300 Americans died and tens of thousands wounded. It cost something like $700 billion.

So no, it wasn't worth it.

Would it have been worth it had a nuclear warhead been found?

I don't know.

But that's a counter-factual. Nothing was found. You don't send thousands of Americans to their deaths and blow nearly a trillion dollars on faulty intelligence.

Actual cost is well over a trillion. About 1.4 I believe. For what? Make baby Bush a "war President", and take out "The Man Who Threatened Poppy"?

 

[Camp]

Bill Clinton told Americans that Saddam was developing WMD's. The CIA never contradicted him. Dianne Feinstein told Americans that Saddam was developing WMD's and the CIA never contradicted her. Granted the CIA hasn't been on top of much since they let Lee Oswald slip through their fingers and were caught napping while the freaking 9-11 terrorists were attending flight school. They couldn't even find two Russian Terrorists in Boston when their names were in the phone book. The CIA is redundant and sloppy and has been used as a political tool by democrat administrations since JFK raised a Cuban invasion army.

JFK did not raise a Cuban invasion army. The 2506 Brigade was funded and trained by the Eisenhower CIA and JFK inherited it. He did give consent to it's use and approved the the Bay of Pigs operation which, once again, was put together by the CIA under the command of the Eisenhower administration.
It might also be noted that the first casualties in Vietnam were CIA operatives assisting the French during the Eisenhower administration. In addition, secret CIA wars were conducted under Nixon by the CIA in Laos and Cambodia. Secret wars in Central America were conducted under Reagan.

 

[Samson]

The intelligence was only faulty AFTER the invasion.

The intelligence was flimsy before the invasion. It wasn't enough to send thousands of Americans to their deaths.

"Flimsey?"

How did you know BEFORE the invasion?

Congress did not know, but you did?

 

[Dot Com]

No.

3,300 Americans died and tens of thousands wounded. It cost something like $700 billion.

So no, it wasn't worth it.

Would it have been worth it had a nuclear warhead been found?

I don't know.

But that's a counter-factual. Nothing was found. You don't send thousands of Americans to their deaths and blow nearly a trillion dollars on faulty intelligence.

Wonder if Samson's ever hard of Doug Feith?

Douglas J. Feith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Feith joined the administration of President George W. Bush as Undersecretary of Defense for Policy in 2001. His appointment was facilitated by connections he had with other neoconservatives, including Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz. With his new appointment in hand, Feith proved influential in having Richard Perle chosen as chairman of the Defense Policy Board. Feith was criticized during the first term of the Bush administration for creating the Office of Strategic Influence. This office came into existence to support the War on Terror. The office's aim was to influence policymakers by submitting biased news stories into the foreign media. Feith played a significant role in the buildup to the Iraq war

 

[Antares]

No.

 

[Lakhota]

No.

3,300 Americans died and tens of thousands wounded. It cost something like $700 billion.

So no, it wasn't worth it.

Actually, it reportedly cost over $2 trillion.

 

[Peach]

Would it have been worth it had a nuclear warhead been found?

I don't know.

But that's a counter-factual. Nothing was found. You don't send thousands of Americans to their deaths and blow nearly a trillion dollars on faulty intelligence.

The intelligence was only faulty AFTER the invasion.

My point is that you are correct: It wasn't worth it. However, the only way we could come to that conclusion is in hindsight.

The same hindsight that we now use to view intelligence reports that the Iraqi military was ready for US Troop withdrawl. Obviously, they were not, but how would Obama know this certainty until AFTERWARDS?

Horse hockey, the US had all intel necessary to know what Saddam had, nuclear weapons manufacture leaves traces satellites can detect. Chemical weapons use would have been seen by foreign journalists, there were some in the country.

 

[Samson]

Would it have been worth it had a nuclear warhead been found?

I don't know.

But that's a counter-factual. Nothing was found. You don't send thousands of Americans to their deaths and blow nearly a trillion dollars on faulty intelligence.

Wonder if Samson's ever hard of Doug Feith?

Douglas J. Feith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Feith joined the administration of President George W. Bush as Undersecretary of Defense for Policy in 2001. His appointment was facilitated by connections he had with other neoconservatives, including Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz. With his new appointment in hand, Feith proved influential in having Richard Perle chosen as chairman of the Defense Policy Board. Feith was criticized during the first term of the Bush administration for creating the Office of Strategic Influence. This office came into existence to support the War on Terror. The office's aim was to influence policymakers by submitting biased news stories into the foreign media. Feith played a significant role in the buildup to the Iraq war

Did you write this into the wikipedia article?

If so, I have a few simple of questions for you:

1. Why was he a "Neoconservative?"
2. Who criticized Feith during Bush's first term?
3. How do "bias news stories into the foreign media" influance policymakers, particularly those in congress that voted for the war (like Hilary Clinton)?