Is going to college beneficial or is that a lie?

[Osomir]

As someone with many more years in university than you could dream of, I'd say you're full of shit.

That's neat, you're still incorrect though.

Did you really go to college? I ask because your posts are shot through with poor grammar and a lack of critical thought. Not even thought, lack of meaningful engagement in the subject. You just spew opinion like you're throwing your leftover taco salad out the window at 50 MPH as you head for home at 3AM.

Lol. personal attacks don't make you any less incorrect there sport.

 

[The Rabbi]

Gotta do better than that. I know plenty of experts in technical fields who can't put together a coherent paragraph. Over-specialization can be a dangerous game. That's why liberal arts majors are still highly sought-after.

Facts are not your friend.

Sure they are.

Critics of the Liberal Arts Are Wrong | TIME.com



Revenge of the Liberal Arts Major

No, I wrote "Facts are not your friend." I posted facts. You have not posted facts.
I think we are beginning to see the issue here.

 

[candycorn]

As someone who has studied both in a university setting I'd just say that you're 100% wrong.

Just because you don't know the market very well or the job requirements of those markets doesn't mean that they are poor.

As someone with many more years in university than you could dream of, I'd say you're full of shit.

That's neat, you're still incorrect though.

He's obviously lying of course.

 

[The Rabbi]

That's neat, you're still incorrect though.

Did you really go to college? I ask because your posts are shot through with poor grammar and a lack of critical thought. Not even thought, lack of meaningful engagement in the subject. You just spew opinion like you're throwing your leftover taco salad out the window at 50 MPH as you head for home at 3AM.

Lol. personal attacks don't make you any less incorrect there sport.

You prove my point with every post. Please post what institution granted you a bachelor's degree and when this was conferred.

 

[Osomir]

Degree in engineering.... great. Degree in women's studies... now you're uniquely qualified to work at Starbucks.

I think that's pretty unfair. I do a lot of work with individuals who have degrees in gender studies and they are quite important degrees at that. Being able to bring women into work places and more formalized institutional frameworks is a big business and yields very large economic returns. Women entering the work place has caused more GDP growth in western countries over the past ten year than any other causal variable has including the use of newer technologies. Women are very important for global economic growth, but are often very marginalized all over the world. Addressing that issue usually nets huge returns.

 

[The Rabbi]

Women have been entering the workforce in America for the last 30-40 years.

 

[Osomir]

Did you really go to college? I ask because your posts are shot through with poor grammar and a lack of critical thought. Not even thought, lack of meaningful engagement in the subject. You just spew opinion like you're throwing your leftover taco salad out the window at 50 MPH as you head for home at 3AM.

Lol. personal attacks don't make you any less incorrect there sport.

You prove my point with every post. Please post what institution granted you a bachelor's degree and when this was conferred.

I have two undergraduate degrees and a masters with a dual concentration.

I do a lot of economic regression modeling, and absolutely do them within the context of both Afrian issues and gender (the two go together quite well). So suggesting that the two fields of study lack any sort of mathematical analysis simply implies that you aren't very familiar with those fields. Theories can't be as easily tested as in say general chemistry or other sciences, but they are no less mathematically complex.

 

[Osomir]

Women have been entering the workforce in America for the last 30-40 years.

That's fine, doesn't change anything that I posted. Nor have gender related institutions been constant over the past 30 years.

My comment also wasn't just about the US, it was about developed countries in general.

 

[kwc57]

Not all college degrees have equal marketable value.

It's especially important for anyone thinking about taking out student loans for a degree to evaluate his future earning potential. Too many graduates are saddled with massive amounts of debt for degrees that have virtually no economic value. The fact that such loans are handed out without an appraisal for the value of the education is fraud, imo.

Right wingers like Rick Santorum and the bulk of the Republican Party that agrees with him make no distinction.

Science is a faith, evolution a lie, climate change a conspiracy, education is for snobs and liberal college professors only want to turn your kids into communists.

It's one of the reasons Red States are a mess and only get by with money from the very "liberals" they hate. Worse, they try to blame it on minorities. The US over all is 71% white. Many of the Red States, like Kentucky and Tennessee are 90% or more white (just like the Republican Party). So they can't blame it on minorities how ever hard they try. It's following 150 years of destructive and discredited conservative policies.

I bet you were doing this with one hand while you typed with the other hand weren't you?

 

[KevinWestern]

Yup, but with too little work ethic and too much 'self-esteem.'

As a side question, why do you think nowadays accountants (for example), who were successful in their profession 30 years ago with just a CPA, are now required to have a 4-year-degree as well?

Do you believe that shift was a necessary and beneficial one? Why do you think the shift occurred at all?

 

[Unkotare]

Facts are not your friend.

Sure they are.

Critics of the Liberal Arts Are Wrong | TIME.com



Revenge of the Liberal Arts Major

No, I wrote "Facts are not your friend." I posted facts. You have not posted facts.
I think we are beginning to see the issue here.

You have to actually read the links to get the facts found therein.

 

[KevinWestern]

You do it by measuring productivity increases over time and then teasing out and holding constant other causal variables (such as new technologies). The remainder (if done in a robust maner) would then be what you would hesitantly attribute to the causal variable in question.

Studies on education as a causal variable for productivity growth show that education is very important in terms of worker productivity. Of course this is subject to deminishing marginal returns to all education doesn't impact productivity the same. It depends on the level, and secotr being looked at. Obviously initial education inputs will yield the greatest productivity increases (learning to read and write, basic computer skills, etc).

Everything averaged together though into one big generalized lump and you see roughly an 8 - 13% increase in productivity per additional year of schooling.

I feel like it's a bit more complex than that, however.

I don't doubt that students who choose to attend college will generally be measured as 'more productive' than those who do not attend, but who is to say that those same students wouldn't have been more productive regardless? I'm sure the college attendance rates in the middle class communities (with the better K-12 schools, stable family units w/role models, etc) are much higher than in poorer areas.

How can we tell that it's the schooling - specifically - that is shaping those individuals into more productive workers?

.

 

[kwc57]

Gotta do better than that. I know plenty of experts in technical fields who can't put together a coherent paragraph. Over-specialization can be a dangerous game. That's why liberal arts majors are still highly sought-after.

Facts are not your friend.

Sure they are.

Critics of the Liberal Arts Are Wrong | TIME.com



Revenge of the Liberal Arts Major

Your Times article is written by a History professor. No bias in her opinion piece. I'm sure there are still buggy whip manufacturers who think they have a crackerjack of a product too. Loof, no one is saying that having liberal arts classes in college to help develop a well rounded person is undesirable....just that getting a degree in liberal arts does not make you very employable.

 

[Osomir]

I feel like it's a bit more complex than that, however.

Students who partake in higher education might turn out to be more productive workers, however I feel like it might be the case that the students who attended college in the first place would have been more productive - regardless - than those who chose not to attend.

How can we tell that it's the schooling specifically that is shaping those individuals into more productive workers?

.

The last sentence is a very good question to ask, and that is why I mentioned the "robustness" of the statistical model in question. Every statistician (well every good one) worries about that question and that worry generally lends itself to very detailed statistical models that often take years to compile. I work primarily with developing countries, so I am not as well versed on statistical information relating to say the US, but theoretically you could attempt to tease out natural advantages by looking at say IQ levels and controlling for them as well within your model. Now, IQ isn't perfect, but no model will ever be and it is almost 100% certain that people who specialize in education modeling have come up with a better way to account for that natural difference than my off the cuff IQ control variable example.

 

[The Rabbi]

Lol. personal attacks don't make you any less incorrect there sport.

You prove my point with every post. Please post what institution granted you a bachelor's degree and when this was conferred.

I have two undergraduate degrees and a masters with a dual concentration.
.

I didnt know you could buy those at WalMart.
Your lack of education is astounding. Your lack of precision in the terms you use is abominable. Your lack of ability to support any assertion you make is frightening. I cannot imagine you set foot in a university other than to sweep the floors.

 

[Osomir]

You prove my point with every post. Please post what institution granted you a bachelor's degree and when this was conferred.

I have two undergraduate degrees and a masters with a dual concentration.
.

I didnt know you could buy those at WalMart.
Your lack of education is astounding. Your lack of precision in the terms you use is abominable. Your lack of ability to support any assertion you make is frightening. I cannot imagine you set foot in a university other than to sweep the floors.

Your insecurity is showing.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sure they are.

Critics of the Liberal Arts Are Wrong | TIME.com



Revenge of the Liberal Arts Major

No, I wrote "Facts are not your friend." I posted facts. You have not posted facts.
I think we are beginning to see the issue here.

You have to actually read the links to get the facts found therein.

I did. Did you?

 

[The Rabbi]

I have two undergraduate degrees and a masters with a dual concentration.
.

I didnt know you could buy those at WalMart.
Your lack of education is astounding. Your lack of precision in the terms you use is abominable. Your lack of ability to support any assertion you make is frightening. I cannot imagine you set foot in a university other than to sweep the floors.

Your insecurity is showing.

Translation: You are spot on. I am a big poseur and had hoped no one would spot it.

 

[The Rabbi]

You do it by measuring productivity increases over time and then teasing out and holding constant other causal variables (such as new technologies). The remainder (if done in a robust maner) would then be what you would hesitantly attribute to the causal variable in question.

Studies on education as a causal variable for productivity growth show that education is very important in terms of worker productivity. Of course this is subject to deminishing marginal returns to all education doesn't impact productivity the same. It depends on the level, and secotr being looked at. Obviously initial education inputs will yield the greatest productivity increases (learning to read and write, basic computer skills, etc).

Everything averaged together though into one big generalized lump and you see roughly an 8 - 13% increase in productivity per additional year of schooling.

I feel like it's a bit more complex than that, however.

I don't doubt that students who choose to attend college will generally be measured as 'more productive' than those who do not attend, but who is to say that those same students wouldn't have been more productive regardless? I'm sure the college attendance rates in the middle class communities (with the better K-12 schools, stable family units w/role models, etc) are much higher than in poorer areas.

How can we tell that it's the schooling - specifically - that is shaping those individuals into more productive workers?

.

With nearly 50% unemployment/underemployment how productive can they really be as a whole?

 

[KevinWestern]

With nearly 50% unemployment/underemployment how productive can they really be as a whole?

Good question. One issue with our current higher education system (in my opinion) is that it does not adapt well to abrupt changes in our economy.

Right now jobs are still somewhat scarce, and we need young people who are willing to take lower-skilled positions so that we can keep things moving along a bit.

However, they are not willing to take these positions because many of them are much too educated and have quite a bit of student loan debt, and wouldn't be able to (mathematically) meet their monthly obligation of $600 working at McDonald's. So they hold out and stall in hopes of landing the job that pays $50k.

In the absence of college, perhaps those same individuals would have been able to get by at McDonald's (or wherever they fit in) for a few years to keep the ball rolling, then enter into an apprenticeship into a more lucrative field when the economy expands once again.

I feel the current system is a bit rigid and produces way too many highly educated individuals (with debt) than the economy actually needs.

That might have been a bit of a rant, but perhaps some of it makes some sense..

.