Is going to college beneficial or is that a lie?

[Asclepias]

Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

Who or what determines what constitutes a "hard" subject?

Its generally agreed upon. That's why fewer people get degrees in Math than in English.

Math is not hard. Its boring so thats most likely why fewer people have degrees in it.

 

[Ropey]

Is going to college beneficial or is that a lie?

It's an avenue to greater income generation. Considering the US state of joblessness for the youth, it's not a bad idea to research where the jobs are trending. This way you can find some form of education that will address some of the employment deficiencies that you at least have some control over.

It's not an easy time.

 

[Osomir]

I've always thought that college was over rated. The whole four-year thing ... the 'required' stuff isn't necessary, imo. Go in, learn your field of study, get out. Two years max.

More and more jobs are requiring a four year degree, jobs that in no way should they require a four year degree. Administrative assistant? Please. BTDT several times. Learn the basics (associates degree or comparable experience) and go from there.

My most recent job (counted the drug inventory of pharmaceutical sales reps) required a four year degree. Seriously, if you had half a brain, could walk and chew gum at the same time you could do the job. It just wasn't that complicated. Bullshit on the degree.

What a four year degree does though is (generally) show trainability, you also know certain levels of critical thinking, public presenting, writing, etc skills have been learned and developed.

What it does is lower risk associated with hiring new persons. OVer time utilizing averages of performance, the average four year college student will generally outperform the guy with an associates degree of high school diploma.

I understand your point, but that's clearly not what the market wants, they want less employee risk and higher average employee productivity so they want to find students who have a four year degree.

If what you said was the end of the line then they wouldn't be seeking students with college degrees. It's a market demand structure.

 

[Unkotare]

Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

Who or what determines what constitutes a "hard" subject?

Its generally agreed upon. That's why fewer people get degrees in Math than in English.

Gotta do better than that. I know plenty of experts in technical fields who can't put together a coherent paragraph. Over-specialization can be a dangerous game. That's why liberal arts majors are still highly sought-after.

 

[KevinWestern]

However, this is where my criticism of the system begins. I don't believe college is making a large difference in the quality of worker it is returning back to the system.

.

Do you have any empirical data to support that belief?

No, just an opinion formed by my own experiences. Not even sure how you'd even begin to effectively measure that anyways.

What's your opinion? Given that we now have more college grads than at any time in the past (in the United States), do you believe our young workers are more skillful and effective than ever?

.

 

[Osomir]

Exactly the point.
Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

As someone who has studied both in a university setting I'd just say that you're 100% wrong.

Just because you don't know the market very well or the job requirements of those markets doesn't mean that they are poor.

 

[The Rabbi]

Who or what determines what constitutes a "hard" subject?

Its generally agreed upon. That's why fewer people get degrees in Math than in English.

Math is not hard. Its boring so thats most likely why fewer people have degrees in it.

Never took a math course, I see.

 

[The Rabbi]

Who or what determines what constitutes a "hard" subject?

Its generally agreed upon. That's why fewer people get degrees in Math than in English.

Gotta do better than that. I know plenty of experts in technical fields who can't put together a coherent paragraph. Over-specialization can be a dangerous game. That's why liberal arts majors are still highly sought-after.

Facts are not your friend.
Center on Education and the Workforce -

1. Even as the housing bubble seems to be dissipating, unemployment rates for recent architecture graduates have remained high (12.8%). Graduate degrees and work experience did not shield these graduates from a sector-specific shock; graduates with experience in the field have the same jobless rates as the economy overall (9.3%).


2. Unemployment is generally higher for non-technical majors, such as the arts (9.8%) or law and public policy (9.2%).



3. People who make technology are still better off than people who use technology. Unemployment rates for recent graduates in information systems, concentrated in clerical functions, is high (14.7%) compared with mathematics (5.9%) and computer science (8.7%).



4. Unemployment rates are relatively low for recent graduates in education (5.0%), engineering (7.0%), health and the sciences (4.8%) because they are tied to stable or growing industry sectors and occupations.



5. Graduates in psychology and social work also have relatively low rates (8.8%) because almost half of them work in healthcare or education sectors.

 

[The Rabbi]

Exactly the point.
Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

As someone who has studied both in a university setting I'd just say that you're 100% wrong.

Just because you don't know the market very well or the job requirements of those markets doesn't mean that they are poor.

As someone with many more years in university than you could dream of, I'd say you're full of shit.

 

[Osomir]

Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

Who or what determines what constitutes a "hard" subject?

Its generally agreed upon. That's why fewer people get degrees in Math than in English.

One can utilize quite a bit of math in both African studies and gender studies.

 

[Unkotare]

However, this is where my criticism of the system begins. I don't believe college is making a large difference in the quality of worker it is returning back to the system.

.

Do you have any empirical data to support that belief?

No, just an opinion formed by my own experiences. Not even sure how you'd even begin to effectively measure that anyways.

What's your opinion? Given that we now have more college grads than at any time in the past (in the United States), do you believe our young workers are more skillful and effective than ever?

.

Yup, but with too little work ethic and too much 'self-esteem.'

 

[Osomir]

Exactly the point.
Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

As someone who has studied both in a university setting I'd just say that you're 100% wrong.

Just because you don't know the market very well or the job requirements of those markets doesn't mean that they are poor.

As someone with many more years in university than you could dream of, I'd say you're full of shit.

That's neat, you're still incorrect though.

 

[Asclepias]

Its generally agreed upon. That's why fewer people get degrees in Math than in English.

Math is not hard. Its boring so thats most likely why fewer people have degrees in it.

Never took a math course, I see.

No. Just because its hard to you doesnt mean its hard for everyone. I probably have a higher level of math than most people. Its a fundamental course but its boring. Most people say the same thing unless they are mathematicians. Not that many people say that they want to study math as an adult.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Degree in engineering.... great. Degree in women's studies... now you're uniquely qualified to work at Starbucks.

 

[The Rabbi]

However, this is where my criticism of the system begins. I don't believe college is making a large difference in the quality of worker it is returning back to the system.

.

Do you have any empirical data to support that belief?

No, just an opinion formed by my own experiences. Not even sure how you'd even begin to effectively measure that anyways.

What's your opinion? Given that we now have more college grads than at any time in the past (in the United States), do you believe our young workers are more skillful and effective than ever?

.

To answer the question is to settle the argument.
College grads come out with schools that are ill suited to the marketplace. They further have attitudes that mitigate against hiring them, namely an entitlement mentality that says "I need X dollars to fund my lifestyle. Where's my office at, bro?" They have poor work habits and don't function well ina professional environment. This is part of the reason their UE/underemployment rate is so high.

 

[kwc57]

I was told by another poster i will not name that too many people go to college. The reasoning is that its all a lie that college teaches you the skills to get a higher paying job.

Why do too many people go to college? Because they've been sold a lie that going to college gives you skills to get a high paying job.

i went to college and got a degree in my field and secured a higher paying job because of the skills I acquired. Not only did I learn the skills I also received a degree that certified I was qualified for the prerequisites for the job. Before anyone thinks I left something out this is literally all the poster gave me to go on. Anyone agree with the posters premise?

The short answer to your question is yes. My son is a junior in college and he belongs there. He belongs there because he is a straight A student and he has chosen an engineering field that require college. The kids who graduate from his program have jobs waiting for them when they graduate. His friends who are getting degrees in history, english and art are moving back home to live with their parents because there just isn't much of a market for those skills.

Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs fame has quite a bit to say about the state of education in the US and has set up a foundation. Profoundly Disconnected....."A trillion dollars in student loans. Record high unemployment. Three million good jobs that no one seems to want. The goal of Profoundly Disconnected is to challenge the absurd belief that a four-year degree is the only path to success. The Skills Gap is here, and if we don’t close it, it’ll swallow us all. Which is a long way of saying, we could use your help…"

 

[Unkotare]

Its generally agreed upon. That's why fewer people get degrees in Math than in English.

Gotta do better than that. I know plenty of experts in technical fields who can't put together a coherent paragraph. Over-specialization can be a dangerous game. That's why liberal arts majors are still highly sought-after.

Facts are not your friend.

Sure they are.

Critics of the Liberal Arts Are Wrong | TIME.com



Revenge of the Liberal Arts Major

 

[The Rabbi]

As someone who has studied both in a university setting I'd just say that you're 100% wrong.

Just because you don't know the market very well or the job requirements of those markets doesn't mean that they are poor.

As someone with many more years in university than you could dream of, I'd say you're full of shit.

That's neat, you're still incorrect though.

Did you really go to college? I ask because your posts are shot through with poor grammar and a lack of critical thought. Not even thought, lack of meaningful engagement in the subject. You just spew opinion like you're throwing your leftover taco salad out the window at 50 MPH as you head for home at 3AM.

 

[Osomir]

However, this is where my criticism of the system begins. I don't believe college is making a large difference in the quality of worker it is returning back to the system.

.

Do you have any empirical data to support that belief?

No, just an opinion formed by my own experiences. Not even sure how you'd even begin to effectively measure that anyways.

What's your opinion? Given that we now have more college grads than at any time in the past (in the United States), do you believe our young workers are more skillful and effective than ever?

.

You do it by measuring productivity increases over time and then teasing out and holding constant other causal variables (such as new technologies). The remainder (if done in a robust maner) would then be what you would hesitantly attribute to the causal variable in question.

Studies on education as a causal variable for productivity growth show that education is very important in terms of worker productivity. Of course this is subject to deminishing marginal returns and all education doesn't impact productivity the same. It depends on the level, and sector being looked at. Obviously initial education inputs will yield the greatest productivity increases (learning to read and write, basic computer skills, etc).

Everything averaged together though into one big generalized lump and you see roughly an 8 - 13% increase in productivity per additional year of schooling.

 

[candycorn]

Degree in engineering.... great. Degree in women's studies... now you're uniquely qualified to work at Starbucks.

Paul Akin could have used it...the Republican candidate for US Senator from Missouri.