Is it possible for atheism to ever be anything more than critical theory?

[ding]

I wasn't referring to theism, but to Christianity. I think most people understand theism is broader in scope and that God is part of nature and does not get into the religious aspects. It usually stays spiritual and/or metaphysical.

I have no reason to believe that the gods are a part of nature. For that matter, there is nothing that connects any alleged supernatural entities to the natural, rational world. We have no solid evidence of any gods or any supernatural realms, this despite multiple millennia of theories and claims and suppositions and books and icons and so on. Not one single verifiable shred of evidence that a god exists (and even an argument that states that if there were proof, it would defeat his requirement for pure faith), and in fact, a very youthful science that shows more and more every day that a god isn't even needed for reality to exist... god theories crumble quickly under the light of scientific knowledge.

You will want eternal gods who jump started everything (but you will not account for the gods prime cause). I want a cyclic universe where matter has always been, in both directions of time. Here's the difference:

My environment is non-sentient and it is discoverable as to the mechanism. Your environment has to account for an eternal sentient being (which you will never be able to fully account for), and you have to come up with reasons as to why they wouldn't tell you the truth about how it all began in their communications with you.

That's a tall order, especially when it's admitted the only ways of proving things is not available to that environment.

Yes, I have. There are no contradictions in the Bible and Genesis. Do you believe atheism is critical theory and this is one of its criticisms?

I’m not so sure you have ever read your bibles with a critical persprctive. Among the most oddly contradictory fables is the Genesis tale. If you would like to examine the Genesis fable, I’ll be glad to go through it with you.

A book is simply that, a book. Until there is a way to connect a supernatural being with the authorship of a book, it's safe to assume that the book is, in fact, merely written by men.

Do you know what the account of the Tower of Babel is about?

Do you know that the gods lied in the Genesis fable?

Did you know the oldest book in the Bible is Job and Job was not a Jew?

 

[ding]

The first five books were written by Moses, an adopted son of the king of Egypt (1400 B.C.). These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Bible records the history that all nations have in common. So when you read the first 11 chapters, you are reading allegorical accounts of actual events which were passed down orally for thousands of years. Sprinkled in these allegorical accounts of actual historical events is wisdom that ancient man passed down orally from generation to generation that taught morality. If you believe that God literally did these things then you not only miss the point of an allegorical account of actual historical events but you miss out on the nuggets of wisdom.

 

[Syriusly]

LOL yeah tell me again how you are not attacking me for not believing your fairy tales.

I look forward to your thread where you ask Jews to make an affirmative case for not believing in Jesus.

To prove you wrong by making an affirmative case for not believing that Jesus Christ is our saviour.

Because that is exactly what you are asking me to do.

I don't ask you to make an affirmative cases to prove your fairy tales are real. I don't care. I just don't believe in your fairy tales.

You are the one starting threads attempting to subordinate atheism to whatever it is that you believe in.

I am not asking you to prove me wrong by making an affirmative case for not believing that Jesus Christ is your savior. That is the case atheists make when they argue against the beliefs of Christians. I am asking you to make a positive or affirmative case for atheism. I am asking you to prove a negative. You were the one who implied through your stamp collecting analogy that you could make an affirmative case for atheism. I am the one who said it is impossible to make an affirmative case for atheism because you can’t prove a negative. That is the point of this OP. I am not attacking atheism. The OP is explaining that the only way they can validate their beliefs is though attacking and criticizing the beliefs of others and that is exactly what we see.

I see my analogy went right over your head.

Would you ask a Jew to make a positive or affirmative case for not believing in Jesus Christ as a saviour? If so, I truly look forward to seeing you start that thread.....

I never implied one way or the other whether I could make an affirmative case for my not believing in your fairy tales. I am saying it is offensive to me that you think I have any obligation to make such a case.

I don't need to validate my lack of belief in your gods, or leprechauns, or bigfoot- and when I criticize those who do believe in such fairy tales, I do so because you people have once again tried to subordinate my lack of beliefs to your beliefs.

You seem to be under the supreme misconception that I have any need to criticize your fairy tales in order to justify my not believing in them. I just don't believe in them- I see absolutely no evidence that your gods or leprechauns or bigfoot exist- so I don't 'believe'.

.Atheists say all the time that they can’t prove God exists because they can’t prove a negative. So all that is left is for them to attack the affirmative arguments of religion.

I think you meant to say 'can't prove God doesn't exist'

I explained my position repeatedly and you just refuse to accept my answer and keep dragging out false tropes.

As a matter of fact, while may think I have attacked your beliefs in this thread, actually I have mocked the belief in fairy tales. What I have not done is 'attack the affirmative arguments of religion'- whatever you may think that they are.

I have not spent time pointing out that absolute lack of proof that any god exists, I have not spent time pointing out the scientific fallacies contained in the Bible, nor have I listed the abuses by those who claim religious authority.

I have pointed out that I just don't believe in any fairy tales. I don't need to. I don't need to justify why I don't. And if there was not a single religion on Earth- I would still believe exactly the way I do now.

So I have explained this multiple times now- and you continue to attack my position by saying that I must attack your beliefs to maintain my position.

So I am left with two choices:
a) Just declare you a lost cause- blinded by your faith- and stop responding or
b) Actually challenge you on your faith.

I probably will go with A- because I think you are lost cause- totally unwilling to listen to anything other than what you have already decided.

Yes. They can’t prove God doesn’t exist. Thank you. If they could prove that God doesn’t exist they could validate their beliefs that way.

I am not attacking your position. I am stating mine.

Like I said you are a lost cause- a true 'believer' unable to conceive of any position other than your ignorant faith.

I will leave you to go back to playing with your Bible and Jesus dolls.

 

[ding]

Genesis 1 describes the beginning of creation in an allegorical fashion and is remarkably accurate. The universe did have a beginning and evolved in stages until beings that know and create arose.

We can use science today to confirm what ancient man knew 6000 years ago.

 

[Syriusly]

LOL yeah tell me again how you are not attacking me for not believing your fairy tales.

I look forward to your thread where you ask Jews to make an affirmative case for not believing in Jesus.

To prove you wrong by making an affirmative case for not believing that Jesus Christ is our saviour.

Because that is exactly what you are asking me to do.

I don't ask you to make an affirmative cases to prove your fairy tales are real. I don't care. I just don't believe in your fairy tales.

You are the one starting threads attempting to subordinate atheism to whatever it is that you believe in.

Just so we are clear, you are admitting you can’t make an affirmative case for atheism, right?
.

Just so we are clear, you are admitting that you are trying to subordinate Judaism to Christianity, right?

LOL- please don't put words in my mouth- and I won't put words in yours.

LOL yeah tell me again how you are not attacking me for not believing your fairy tales.

I look forward to your thread where you ask Jews to make an affirmative case for not believing in Jesus.

To prove you wrong by making an affirmative case for not believing that Jesus Christ is our saviour.

Because that is exactly what you are asking me to do.

I don't ask you to make an affirmative cases to prove your fairy tales are real. I don't care. I just don't believe in your fairy tales.

You are the one starting threads attempting to subordinate atheism to whatever it is that you believe in

I don’t see how I am subordinating Judaism. I believe in Judaism. Christianity is effectively a sect of Judaism. I don’t subordinate any religion. I believe all religions are more similar than dissimilar.

I am sorry that you take this thread as a personal attack it’s not meant to be.

You do realize you can make a personal attack without realizing that was what you are doing- right?

I will go back to my Jewish example.

Do you have any doubt that if you started a thread titled:
Is it possible for Judaism to ever be anything more than a critical theory?

And then further explained that Jews can only justify their lack of belief in Jesus Christ as their savior by attacking the beliefs of Christians

That Jews would not be offended or see that as an attack on them?

I don't doubt it.

Beyond that- you asked the question- and you refuse the answer of every athiest who has responded.

Let me put it another way- though I figure you will ignore this answer too- if there was no organzied religion, if there was no belief in gods or god by anyone in the world- my 'belief' would be exactly what my belief is now. Which is I don't believe in any of those fairy tales.

You ask whether my 'atheism' is dependent on being critical of religion- as I pointed out above- my 'atheism' would exist irregardless of whether any church existed in the world.

I am critical of religion when religion deserves to be criticized.

No. I don’t realize that I have done that. Probably because I haven’t.

Religion is a tool. It can be used for good or bad. It’s not the fault of the tool.

Like I said before you criticize it to validate your beliefs because you have no other way to do so.

Like I said before- you are a lost cause.

You ignore what I and Winterborn say- and project your own fantastical position as ours.

I will leave you to go play with your Bibles and Jesus dolls.

 

[Hollie]

I wasn't referring to theism, but to Christianity. I think most people understand theism is broader in scope and that God is part of nature and does not get into the religious aspects. It usually stays spiritual and/or metaphysical.

I have no reason to believe that the gods are a part of nature. For that matter, there is nothing that connects any alleged supernatural entities to the natural, rational world. We have no solid evidence of any gods or any supernatural realms, this despite multiple millennia of theories and claims and suppositions and books and icons and so on. Not one single verifiable shred of evidence that a god exists (and even an argument that states that if there were proof, it would defeat his requirement for pure faith), and in fact, a very youthful science that shows more and more every day that a god isn't even needed for reality to exist... god theories crumble quickly under the light of scientific knowledge.

You will want eternal gods who jump started everything (but you will not account for the gods prime cause). I want a cyclic universe where matter has always been, in both directions of time. Here's the difference:

My environment is non-sentient and it is discoverable as to the mechanism. Your environment has to account for an eternal sentient being (which you will never be able to fully account for), and you have to come up with reasons as to why they wouldn't tell you the truth about how it all began in their communications with you.

That's a tall order, especially when it's admitted the only ways of proving things is not available to that environment.

Yes, I have. There are no contradictions in the Bible and Genesis. Do you believe atheism is critical theory and this is one of its criticisms?

I’m not so sure you have ever read your bibles with a critical persprctive. Among the most oddly contradictory fables is the Genesis tale. If you would like to examine the Genesis fable, I’ll be glad to go through it with you.

A book is simply that, a book. Until there is a way to connect a supernatural being with the authorship of a book, it's safe to assume that the book is, in fact, merely written by men.

Do you know what the account of the Tower of Babel is about?

Do you know that the gods lied in the Genesis fable?

Did you know the oldest book in the Bible is Job and Job was not a Jew?

Did you know that gods who lie tend to cripple the notion of loving and perfect gods?

 

[ding]

I wasn't referring to theism, but to Christianity. I think most people understand theism is broader in scope and that God is part of nature and does not get into the religious aspects. It usually stays spiritual and/or metaphysical.

I have no reason to believe that the gods are a part of nature. For that matter, there is nothing that connects any alleged supernatural entities to the natural, rational world. We have no solid evidence of any gods or any supernatural realms, this despite multiple millennia of theories and claims and suppositions and books and icons and so on. Not one single verifiable shred of evidence that a god exists (and even an argument that states that if there were proof, it would defeat his requirement for pure faith), and in fact, a very youthful science that shows more and more every day that a god isn't even needed for reality to exist... god theories crumble quickly under the light of scientific knowledge.

You will want eternal gods who jump started everything (but you will not account for the gods prime cause). I want a cyclic universe where matter has always been, in both directions of time. Here's the difference:

My environment is non-sentient and it is discoverable as to the mechanism. Your environment has to account for an eternal sentient being (which you will never be able to fully account for), and you have to come up with reasons as to why they wouldn't tell you the truth about how it all began in their communications with you.

That's a tall order, especially when it's admitted the only ways of proving things is not available to that environment.

Yes, I have. There are no contradictions in the Bible and Genesis. Do you believe atheism is critical theory and this is one of its criticisms?

I’m not so sure you have ever read your bibles with a critical persprctive. Among the most oddly contradictory fables is the Genesis tale. If you would like to examine the Genesis fable, I’ll be glad to go through it with you.

A book is simply that, a book. Until there is a way to connect a supernatural being with the authorship of a book, it's safe to assume that the book is, in fact, merely written by men.

Do you know what the account of the Tower of Babel is about?

Do you know that the gods lied in the Genesis fable?

Did you know the oldest book in the Bible is Job and Job was not a Jew?

Did you know that gods who lie tend to cripple the notion of loving and perfect gods?

Is that so?

Can you tell me why you defend Israel in the Israel and Palestine forum?

 

[Hollie]

Genesis 1 describes the beginning of creation in an allegorical fashion and is remarkably accurate. The universe did have a beginning and evolved in stages until beings that know and create arose.

We can use science today to confirm what ancient man knew 6000 years ago.

You never actually read Genesis, right?

 

[Hollie]

I have no reason to believe that the gods are a part of nature. For that matter, there is nothing that connects any alleged supernatural entities to the natural, rational world. We have no solid evidence of any gods or any supernatural realms, this despite multiple millennia of theories and claims and suppositions and books and icons and so on. Not one single verifiable shred of evidence that a god exists (and even an argument that states that if there were proof, it would defeat his requirement for pure faith), and in fact, a very youthful science that shows more and more every day that a god isn't even needed for reality to exist... god theories crumble quickly under the light of scientific knowledge.

You will want eternal gods who jump started everything (but you will not account for the gods prime cause). I want a cyclic universe where matter has always been, in both directions of time. Here's the difference:

My environment is non-sentient and it is discoverable as to the mechanism. Your environment has to account for an eternal sentient being (which you will never be able to fully account for), and you have to come up with reasons as to why they wouldn't tell you the truth about how it all began in their communications with you.

That's a tall order, especially when it's admitted the only ways of proving things is not available to that environment.


I’m not so sure you have ever read your bibles with a critical persprctive. Among the most oddly contradictory fables is the Genesis tale. If you would like to examine the Genesis fable, I’ll be glad to go through it with you.

A book is simply that, a book. Until there is a way to connect a supernatural being with the authorship of a book, it's safe to assume that the book is, in fact, merely written by men.

Do you know what the account of the Tower of Babel is about?

Do you know that the gods lied in the Genesis fable?

Did you know the oldest book in the Bible is Job and Job was not a Jew?

Did you know that gods who lie tend to cripple the notion of loving and perfect gods?

Is that so?

Can you tell me why you defend Israel in the Israel and Palestine forum?

Off topic.

Can you tell us why your gods would lie?

 

[ding]

Genesis 1 describes the beginning of creation in an allegorical fashion and is remarkably accurate. The universe did have a beginning and evolved in stages until beings that know and create arose.

We can use science today to confirm what ancient man knew 6000 years ago.

You never actually read Genesis, right?

Wrong. You could always respond to the post I wrote about chapter 1 and explain my errors.

Or you could respond to my question asking you to tell me what the account of the Tower of Babel is about since you are obviously such an expert.

Did you know the account of Genesis was recorded as symbols in the Chinese language 1500 years before Moses recorded it?

Do you know how to explain it?

I don’t believe you know nearly as much about your own people’s heritage as you think you do.

 

[ding]

Do you know what the account of the Tower of Babel is about?

Do you know that the gods lied in the Genesis fable?

Did you know the oldest book in the Bible is Job and Job was not a Jew?

Did you know that gods who lie tend to cripple the notion of loving and perfect gods?

Is that so?

Can you tell me why you defend Israel in the Israel and Palestine forum?

Off topic.

Can you tell us why your gods would lie?

It’s because you are Jewish. And you are an atheist. Am I wrong?

 

[Hollie]

Do you know that the gods lied in the Genesis fable?

Did you know the oldest book in the Bible is Job and Job was not a Jew?

Did you know that gods who lie tend to cripple the notion of loving and perfect gods?

Is that so?

Can you tell me why you defend Israel in the Israel and Palestine forum?

Off topic.

Can you tell us why your gods would lie?

It’s because you are Jewish. And you are an atheist. Am I wrong?

So, you have no answer as to why your gods would lie?

 

[ding]

Genesis 1 describes the beginning of creation in an allegorical fashion and is remarkably accurate. The universe did have a beginning and evolved in stages until beings that know and create arose.

We can use science today to confirm what ancient man knew 6000 years ago.

You never actually read Genesis, right?

The first five books were written by Moses, an adopted son of the king of Egypt (1400 B.C.). These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Bible records the history that all nations have in common. So when you read the first 11 chapters, you are reading allegorical accounts of actual events which were passed down orally for thousands of years. Sprinkled in these allegorical accounts of actual historical events is wisdom that ancient man passed down orally from generation to generation that taught morality. If you believe that God literally did these things then you not only miss the point of an allegorical account of actual historical events but you miss out on the nuggets of wisdom.

 

[ding]

Did you know the oldest book in the Bible is Job and Job was not a Jew?

Did you know that gods who lie tend to cripple the notion of loving and perfect gods?

Is that so?

Can you tell me why you defend Israel in the Israel and Palestine forum?

Off topic.

Can you tell us why your gods would lie?

It’s because you are Jewish. And you are an atheist. Am I wrong?

So, you have no answer as to why your gods would lie?

Genesis 1 describes the beginning of creation in an allegorical fashion and is remarkably accurate. The universe did have a beginning and evolved in stages until beings that know and create arose.

We can use science today to confirm what ancient man knew 6000 years ago.

 

[ding]

Feel free to jump in anytime with your corrections, Hollie.

 

[Hollie]

Did you know that gods who lie tend to cripple the notion of loving and perfect gods?

Is that so?

Can you tell me why you defend Israel in the Israel and Palestine forum?

Off topic.

Can you tell us why your gods would lie?

It’s because you are Jewish. And you are an atheist. Am I wrong?

So, you have no answer as to why your gods would lie?

Genesis 1 describes the beginning of creation in an allegorical fashion and is remarkably accurate. The universe did have a beginning and evolved in stages until beings that know and create arose.

We can use science today to confirm what ancient man knew 6000 years ago.

You're spamming the thread with the same cut and paste nonsense. You're getting rather desperate.

Would you like to offer an opinion as to why the gods needed an excuse to lie?

 

[ding]

Is that so?

Can you tell me why you defend Israel in the Israel and Palestine forum?

Off topic.

Can you tell us why your gods would lie?

It’s because you are Jewish. And you are an atheist. Am I wrong?

So, you have no answer as to why your gods would lie?

Genesis 1 describes the beginning of creation in an allegorical fashion and is remarkably accurate. The universe did have a beginning and evolved in stages until beings that know and create arose.

We can use science today to confirm what ancient man knew 6000 years ago.

You're spamming the thread with the same cut and paste nonsense. You're getting rather desperate.

Would you like to offer an opinion as to why the gods needed an excuse to lie?

I am showing that you don’t understand the ancient text of your own people.

 

[Hollie]

Off topic.

Can you tell us why your gods would lie?

It’s because you are Jewish. And you are an atheist. Am I wrong?

So, you have no answer as to why your gods would lie?

Genesis 1 describes the beginning of creation in an allegorical fashion and is remarkably accurate. The universe did have a beginning and evolved in stages until beings that know and create arose.

We can use science today to confirm what ancient man knew 6000 years ago.

You're spamming the thread with the same cut and paste nonsense. You're getting rather desperate.

Would you like to offer an opinion as to why the gods needed an excuse to lie?

I am showing that you don’t understand the ancient text of your own people.

It’s pretty dishonest to sidestep and evade. Why are you terrified to critically examine your religion?

 

[ding]

It’s because you are Jewish. And you are an atheist. Am I wrong?

So, you have no answer as to why your gods would lie?

Genesis 1 describes the beginning of creation in an allegorical fashion and is remarkably accurate. The universe did have a beginning and evolved in stages until beings that know and create arose.

We can use science today to confirm what ancient man knew 6000 years ago.

You're spamming the thread with the same cut and paste nonsense. You're getting rather desperate.

Would you like to offer an opinion as to why the gods needed an excuse to lie?

I am showing that you don’t understand the ancient text of your own people.

It’s pretty dishonest to sidestep and evade. Why are you terrified to critically examine your religion?

The Bible correctly states that we were made from dust. Stardust to be specific. Did you know that the atoms in your body were present when space and time were created? Since that time they have merely changed form. It is amazing that the atoms in our body are 14 billion years old and were present when the universe was perfectly ordered and all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom.

 

[Hollie]

So, you have no answer as to why your gods would lie?

Genesis 1 describes the beginning of creation in an allegorical fashion and is remarkably accurate. The universe did have a beginning and evolved in stages until beings that know and create arose.

We can use science today to confirm what ancient man knew 6000 years ago.

You're spamming the thread with the same cut and paste nonsense. You're getting rather desperate.

Would you like to offer an opinion as to why the gods needed an excuse to lie?

I am showing that you don’t understand the ancient text of your own people.

It’s pretty dishonest to sidestep and evade. Why are you terrified to critically examine your religion?

The Bible correctly states that we were made from dust. Stardust to be specific. Did you know that the atoms in your body were present when space and time were created? Since that time they have merely changed form. It is amazing that the atoms in our body are 14 billion years old and were present when the universe was perfectly ordered and all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom.

So, why did your gods lie in the Genesis fable?