CDZ Is it Time for Germany to Get Over War Guilt?

[cnelsen]

but it doesn't give anyone license to commit genocide.

I didn't mention genocide. I was asking about antipathy. The genocide you reference didn't start until it became clear Germany was going to lose. Its causes, therefore, are different from the antipathy I'm talking about.

As many Jews are quick to point out, there was widespread antipathy toward Jews throughout Europe in the 1930s. I have yet to find a Jew who will allow anything less than one hundred percent of the blame for that antipathy belongs to the Christian peoples of Europe. In their view, the Jews were utterly blameless for the widespread dislike of them.

I hope you are capable of understanding the ramifications of that. The complete lack of self-reflection by the Jews means two things: 1) given similar circumstances, they will repeat the same mistakes indefinitely, and 2) they have no internal kill switch. In other words, they will likely be the catalyst of war and bloodshed wherever they go.

And, sure enough, the growing antipathy for Jews in this country is real, is, in my opinion, justified, and is met by Jews with loud and incessant shrieks of "Jew-hater" and "anti-Semite" and not a whisper of self-reflection. Hey, let's find out why we are so hated and whether there is something in our behavior that is contributing to this antipathy.

Of course, if the Jewish goal is the complete destruction of their hosts as God commands (the Bolsheviks killed 60 million Russians, remember) then there would be no impetus for self-reflection. In which case, genocide, indeed, is on the table. How could it not be?

 

[defcon4]

Hence the hatred of "national populism" by the Global Eli-- hell, I believe in calling a spade a spade-- by Jews.

I have to disagree with that statement. Certainly there are Jewish elements within the Global Elite but it is like saying about a coalition where the U.S. participates in equal percentage: "It's the Americans" and that would not be correct. The Global Elite is the big money regardless of religion, race or whatever category we want to put them in.

 

[Indeependent]

But notice that the Asians and the Hispanic who share Jewish family values are not the ones spewing the hate.

I've heard it said Jews are notorious for accusing everyone else of what they themselves are guilty of. Sure enough, The only hate-spewing here is coming from you.

Uh huh.

 

[esthermoon]

Younger Germans are starting to rebel against the penitent status their country has accepted since the end of WW2, culminating with the disastrous refugee policies of Angela Merkel. Isn't Nazi Germany as distinct from the Germany of today as the Confederacy is from the modern South?

The question is whether or not this realization has come too late. What do you think?

I think Germans should get over war guilt.
I mean what happened in the 40's was terrible but nobody is guilty for what happened before his own birth.

 

[cnelsen]

Younger Germans are starting to rebel against the penitent status their country has accepted since the end of WW2, culminating with the disastrous refugee policies of Angela Merkel. Isn't Nazi Germany as distinct from the Germany of today as the Confederacy is from the modern South?

The question is whether or not this realization has come too late. What do you think?

I think Germans should get over war guilt.
I mean what happened in the 40's was terrible but nobody is guilty for what happened before his own birth.

And whites should get over the slavery-guilt. If only Hollywood would stop with the slavery-guilt and Holocaust-guilt movies.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Younger Germans are starting to rebel against the penitent status their country has accepted since the end of WW2, culminating with the disastrous refugee policies of Angela Merkel. Isn't Nazi Germany as distinct from the Germany of today as the Confederacy is from the modern South?

The question is whether or not this realization has come too late. What do you think?

Having lived in Austria and Germany and seen the differences between the former East Germany and West Germany and Austria, you can see the benefit Germany has had of being against racism and fascism. Yes, people might want to change things, as refugees have come in too many and too fast, but then they should be looking at how to prevent the US going to another disastrous war, that is the route of all the problems.

That's easy. Shut down AIPAC, and hang Thomas "Cakewalk" Friedman, Doug Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, and Eliot Abrams for treason. Presto. No war. Russia a friend again.

ps, what does East and West Germany have to do with the benefit of being against racism?

Well I was going to ask what your first paragraph has to do with anything.

What does East and West Germany have to do with racism? Well, post WW2 the country was split into 4 which then became 2. The Western powers "denazified" the country for a while and the Soviets didn't care, they just wanted good Communists. Also the West dealt with their racism, you can call it war guilt if you like, whatever, they brought their kids up to understand what had happened and how it was bad. In the East they didn't.

Here's the NPD's 2010 map. They're basically a far right party. You can tell which parts were part of East Germany, right?

I visited East and West Germany as well. The difference was stark, and I can assure you it was due to the fact one was the spawn of Bolshevik communism, the other of Western capitalism. Neither "racism" nor the respective attitudes thereto had any impact whatsoever on the differences between the two countries.

Good for you, but I didn't just visit Germany or Austria, I lived there, I studied the countries and their politics and I saw the racism.

 

[defcon4]

Younger Germans are starting to rebel against the penitent status their country has accepted since the end of WW2, culminating with the disastrous refugee policies of Angela Merkel. Isn't Nazi Germany as distinct from the Germany of today as the Confederacy is from the modern South?

The question is whether or not this realization has come too late. What do you think?

Having lived in Austria and Germany and seen the differences between the former East Germany and West Germany and Austria, you can see the benefit Germany has had of being against racism and fascism. Yes, people might want to change things, as refugees have come in too many and too fast, but then they should be looking at how to prevent the US going to another disastrous war, that is the route of all the problems.

That's easy. Shut down AIPAC, and hang Thomas "Cakewalk" Friedman, Doug Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, and Eliot Abrams for treason. Presto. No war. Russia a friend again.

ps, what does East and West Germany have to do with the benefit of being against racism?

Well I was going to ask what your first paragraph has to do with anything.

What does East and West Germany have to do with racism? Well, post WW2 the country was split into 4 which then became 2. The Western powers "denazified" the country for a while and the Soviets didn't care, they just wanted good Communists. Also the West dealt with their racism, you can call it war guilt if you like, whatever, they brought their kids up to understand what had happened and how it was bad. In the East they didn't.

Here's the NPD's 2010 map. They're basically a far right party. You can tell which parts were part of East Germany, right?

I visited East and West Germany as well. The difference was stark, and I can assure you it was due to the fact one was the spawn of Bolshevik communism, the other of Western capitalism. Neither "racism" nor the respective attitudes thereto had any impact whatsoever on the differences between the two countries.

Good for you, but I didn't just visit Germany or Austria, I lived there, I studied the countries and their politics and I saw the racism.

How is that? Are you a gypsy?

 

[cnelsen]

Younger Germans are starting to rebel against the penitent status their country has accepted since the end of WW2, culminating with the disastrous refugee policies of Angela Merkel. Isn't Nazi Germany as distinct from the Germany of today as the Confederacy is from the modern South?

The question is whether or not this realization has come too late. What do you think?

Having lived in Austria and Germany and seen the differences between the former East Germany and West Germany and Austria, you can see the benefit Germany has had of being against racism and fascism. Yes, people might want to change things, as refugees have come in too many and too fast, but then they should be looking at how to prevent the US going to another disastrous war, that is the route of all the problems.

That's easy. Shut down AIPAC, and hang Thomas "Cakewalk" Friedman, Doug Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, and Eliot Abrams for treason. Presto. No war. Russia a friend again.

ps, what does East and West Germany have to do with the benefit of being against racism?

Well I was going to ask what your first paragraph has to do with anything.

What does East and West Germany have to do with racism? Well, post WW2 the country was split into 4 which then became 2. The Western powers "denazified" the country for a while and the Soviets didn't care, they just wanted good Communists. Also the West dealt with their racism, you can call it war guilt if you like, whatever, they brought their kids up to understand what had happened and how it was bad. In the East they didn't.

Here's the NPD's 2010 map. They're basically a far right party. You can tell which parts were part of East Germany, right?

I visited East and West Germany as well. The difference was stark, and I can assure you it was due to the fact one was the spawn of Bolshevik communism, the other of Western capitalism. Neither "racism" nor the respective attitudes thereto had any impact whatsoever on the differences between the two countries.

Good for you, but I didn't just visit Germany or Austria, I lived there, I studied the countries and their politics and I saw the racism.

And you are claiming that the stark and glaring differences between East German life and West German life were a function of the degree to which the respective governments implemented anti-racism policies? I feel you must be having a little joke.

 

[task0778]

but it doesn't give anyone license to commit genocide.

I didn't mention genocide. I was asking about antipathy. The genocide you reference didn't start until it became clear Germany was going to lose. Its causes, therefore, are different from the antipathy I'm talking about.

As many Jews are quick to point out, there was widespread antipathy toward Jews throughout Europe in the 1930s. I have yet to find a Jew who will allow anything less than one hundred percent of the blame for that antipathy belongs to the Christian peoples of Europe. In their view, the Jews were utterly blameless for the widespread dislike of them.

I hope you are capable of understanding the ramifications of that. The complete lack of self-reflection by the Jews means two things: 1) given similar circumstances, they will repeat the same mistakes indefinitely, and 2) they have no internal kill switch. In other words, they will likely be the catalyst of war and bloodshed wherever they go.

And, sure enough, the growing antipathy for Jews in this country is real, is, in my opinion, justified, and is met by Jews with loud and incessant shrieks of "Jew-hater" and "anti-Semite" and not a whisper of self-reflection. Hey, let's find out why we are so hated and whether there is something in our behavior that is contributing to this antipathy.

Of course, if the Jewish goal is the complete destruction of their hosts as God commands (the Bolsheviks killed 60 million Russians, remember) then there would be no impetus for self-reflection. In which case, genocide, indeed, is on the table. How could it not be?

Genocide is on the table? Seriously?

The Bolsheviks were not Jewish, and there is no evidence of any Jewish terrorist attacks in Germany or anywhere else in the 1930s that would lead to a conclusion that their goal was the complete destruction of the German state, and you have absolutely no way to know whether or not any Jew has tried self-reflection. In short, your posts are totally without merit and your anti-semetic views are shocking.

 

[Toronado3800]

Younger Germans are starting to rebel against the penitent status their country has accepted since the end of WW2, culminating with the disastrous refugee policies of Angela Merkel. Isn't Nazi Germany as distinct from the Germany of today as the Confederacy is from the modern South?

The question is whether or not this realization has come too late. What do you think?

No, this is one of my core beliefs.

IMO Germany and all of Western Civilization needs reminded FOREVER what happens when too many ethnic purity types get together even in the modern world.

If we want to debate German immigration policy or if Germany should contribute more troops to NATO we can.

Leave it to me though and there would be a blood soaked replica of the MS St Louis, MS St. Louis - Wikipedia, in the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool to remind us.

Because, you know, the only pertinent fact of America is is it good for the Jews. How about we put a blood-soaked replica of the USS Liberty right next to your MS St Louis with a full and accurate accounting of why each ship is there?

I disagree, the Liberty story should be told as should the story of Ilan Ramon, Operation Cobra and the Columbia. Both sides of the Liberty story should be told to be honest. My main point of disagreement on equating the Liberty to the St Louis is the sense of scale of the incidents they represent. Also, knowing a bit of U.S. history I am not dead set if Israel was right or wrong to attack the Liberty.

Let me ask point blank. Do you believe the Holocaust was just or a "good thing"?

 

[Picaro]

Don't know that anti-semitism was all that virulent, given the political failure and backlash the 'Kristal Nacht' caused Hitler, and then there is the fact that few German soldiers could be found to work as guards at the Operation Reinhardt death camps below the rank of SS Political officers. The lower ranks were manned by assorted Ukranians, Poles, and other Slavs for the most part, much more brutal and callous than the average German soldier.

 

[Picaro]

Younger Germans are starting to rebel against the penitent status their country has accepted since the end of WW2, culminating with the disastrous refugee policies of Angela Merkel. Isn't Nazi Germany as distinct from the Germany of today as the Confederacy is from the modern South?

The question is whether or not this realization has come too late. What do you think?

No, this is one of my core beliefs.

IMO Germany and all of Western Civilization needs reminded FOREVER what happens when too many ethnic purity types get together even in the modern world.

If we want to debate German immigration policy or if Germany should contribute more troops to NATO we can.

Leave it to me though and there would be a blood soaked replica of the MS St Louis, MS St. Louis - Wikipedia, in the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool to remind us.

Because, you know, the only pertinent fact of America is is it good for the Jews. How about we put a blood-soaked replica of the USS Liberty right next to your MS St Louis with a full and accurate accounting of why each ship is there?

I disagree, the Liberty story should be told as should the story of Ilan Ramon, Operation Cobra and the Columbia. Both sides of the Liberty story should be told to be honest. My main point of disagreement on equating the Liberty to the St Louis is the sense of scale of the incidents they represent. Also, knowing a bit of U.S. history I am not dead set if Israel was right or wrong to attack the Liberty.

Let me ask point blank. Do you believe the Holocaust was just or a "good thing"?

We know what happened re the Liberty; it was a bad judgement call on our part, sending it into a war zone without first liasing with the Israelis. It was an old freighter outfitted as an intelligence ship, and therefore not identifiable as an American Navy vessel. Flags meant nothing since the terrorists always flew false flags on civilian vessels to launch attacks from the sea, and still do occasionally. The Israeli pilots exercised more restraint than most when they sighted it visually, since a couple of them sensed something not quite right re the appearance of the crew they could see going by at high speed. If they hadn't exercised restraint and questioned their own superiors on shore, the ship would have been sunk and all of the crewmen dead. It's just another distorted load of bullshit from both right wingers and anti-semites trying to claim something truly stupid and senseless as some example of Jewish perfidity.

 

[Picaro]

And whites should get over the slavery-guilt.

Of course they should. how does that go on to justify antisemitism or anything else? Slavery doesn't justify black racism and hate crimes, either.

If only Hollywood would stop with the slavery-guilt and Holocaust-guilt movies.

I can agree with that; I suffer from neither.

 

[cnelsen]

Let me ask point blank. Do you believe the Holocaust was just or a "good thing"?

No.

 

[cnelsen]

Younger Germans are starting to rebel against the penitent status their country has accepted since the end of WW2, culminating with the disastrous refugee policies of Angela Merkel. Isn't Nazi Germany as distinct from the Germany of today as the Confederacy is from the modern South?

The question is whether or not this realization has come too late. What do you think?

No, this is one of my core beliefs.

IMO Germany and all of Western Civilization needs reminded FOREVER what happens when too many ethnic purity types get together even in the modern world.

If we want to debate German immigration policy or if Germany should contribute more troops to NATO we can.

Leave it to me though and there would be a blood soaked replica of the MS St Louis, MS St. Louis - Wikipedia, in the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool to remind us.

Because, you know, the only pertinent fact of America is is it good for the Jews. How about we put a blood-soaked replica of the USS Liberty right next to your MS St Louis with a full and accurate accounting of why each ship is there?

I disagree, the Liberty story should be told as should the story of Ilan Ramon, Operation Cobra and the Columbia. Both sides of the Liberty story should be told to be honest. My main point of disagreement on equating the Liberty to the St Louis is the sense of scale of the incidents they represent. Also, knowing a bit of U.S. history I am not dead set if Israel was right or wrong to attack the Liberty.

Let me ask point blank. Do you believe the Holocaust was just or a "good thing"?

We know what happened re the Liberty; it was a bad judgement call on our part, sending it into a war zone without first liasing with the Israelis. It was an old freighter outfitted as an intelligence ship, and therefore not identifiable as an American Navy vessel. Flags meant nothing since the terrorists always flew false flags on civilian vessels to launch attacks from the sea, and still do occasionally. The Israeli pilots exercised more restraint than most when they sighted it visually, since a couple of them sensed something not quite right re the appearance of the crew they could see going by at high speed. If they hadn't exercised restraint and questioned their own superiors on shore, the ship would have been sunk and all of the crewmen dead. It's just another distorted load of bullshit from both right wingers and anti-semites trying to claim something truly stupid and senseless as some example of Jewish perfidity.

Israel attacked the USS Liberty using UNMARKED AIRCRAFT. This is the single fact which proves Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war. Were that true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft. The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt, thus dragging the United States into a war on Israel's behalf

 

[Picaro]

lol more BS from loony land above.

The real story:

Myths debunked on Israel's 1967 attack on USS Liberty


What or who is behind the continuing false charges? A small but well-funded and very vocal group of people and organizations principally supported by Saudi Arabian money such as American Educational Trust (AET) operated in Washington, D.C., by former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Andrew Kilgore and a circle of others whose agenda is to attack the current excellent symbiotic relationship between the United States and Israel.

It all started with former Illinois Congressman Paul Findley (who was defeated for re-election after he announced his support for the terrorist organization, the PLO) and former California Congressman Paul "Pete" McCloskey, also defeated for re-election. McCloskey speaks regularly at meetings of Holocaust denial organizations in California and Washington.

Findley and McCloskey were the moving force in founding the Liberty Veterans Association. Findley served as its adviser, and McCloskey incorporated the association and served as its attorney. They continue to manipulate and distress Liberty survivors and their families by prodding this old wound and preventing its healing, all for their own political agenda. And what is that agenda? Findley and McCloskey are also the founders of the Council for the National Interest (CNI), whose publicly announced purpose is to be the anti-Israel lobby.

After 40 years, it is time to close the book. Let those who lost their lives rest in peace and be honored in treasured memory.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Divide and Conquer

So what if they did? The French have been decadent since their best youth were slaughtered in World War I. You're trying to create conflict within the White race.

Ah, got it. The French and Spanish are the same race, right?

How about the Egyptians? They a different enough race?

Only Simians Adopted Islam

The Egyptians worship death. All that technology and labor wasted on tombs for their tyrants explains why such a death-wish race would create the Muslim Brotherhood.

Did you just say only monkeys adopted Islam?

Let me get this straight. Germans are genetically superior to Egyptians by this train of thought?

Rainbow Bow-Wows Going, "Wow. Just Wow"

The different ethnic groups descended from different primate species, each with different limitations on its evolution. That is obvious if you live in the real world, but not if you live in a childish Kumbaya cartoon-world.

Ok. So Germans between 10,000 and 1000 BC were inferior to Egyptians but then became superior

I am lost on the fine points of your theory.

When Self-Righteous Social Justice Clouds Come Down to Earth, They Become Fog

It's hard for someone who immerses himself in touchy-feely high-in-the-sky Kumbaya media all day to relate to points based on the hard facts of reality.

 

[cnelsen]

lol more BS from loony land above.

The real story:

Myths debunked on Israel's 1967 attack on USS Liberty


What or who is behind the continuing false charges? A small but well-funded and very vocal group of people and organizations principally supported by Saudi Arabian money such as American Educational Trust (AET) operated in Washington, D.C., by former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Andrew Kilgore and a circle of others whose agenda is to attack the current excellent symbiotic relationship between the United States and Israel.

It all started with former Illinois Congressman Paul Findley (who was defeated for re-election after he announced his support for the terrorist organization, the PLO) and former California Congressman Paul "Pete" McCloskey, also defeated for re-election. McCloskey speaks regularly at meetings of Holocaust denial organizations in California and Washington.

Findley and McCloskey were the moving force in founding the Liberty Veterans Association. Findley served as its adviser, and McCloskey incorporated the association and served as its attorney. They continue to manipulate and distress Liberty survivors and their families by prodding this old wound and preventing its healing, all for their own political agenda. And what is that agenda? Findley and McCloskey are also the founders of the Council for the National Interest (CNI), whose publicly announced purpose is to be the anti-Israel lobby.

After 40 years, it is time to close the book. Let those who lost their lives rest in peace and be honored in treasured memory.

Ah, the old Israel-is-always-blameless-because-you-hate-Jews argument. You see, it is a myth that Israeli fighters first disabled the Liberty with air cannons and then sent in torpedo boats because McCloskey speaks regularly at meetings of Holocaust denial organizations in California and Washington. And it is a myth that radio intercepts made it clear the Israelis knowingly fired on an American ship in international waters because Findley and McCloskey are also the founders of the Council for the National Interest. And it is an utter myth that Israel was attempting to drag the US into a war with Egypt because Israel would never do something like that and never ever has.

 

[Toronado3800]

Ah, got it. The French and Spanish are the same race, right?

How about the Egyptians? They a different enough race?

Only Simians Adopted Islam

The Egyptians worship death. All that technology and labor wasted on tombs for their tyrants explains why such a death-wish race would create the Muslim Brotherhood.

Did you just say only monkeys adopted Islam?

Let me get this straight. Germans are genetically superior to Egyptians by this train of thought?

Rainbow Bow-Wows Going, "Wow. Just Wow"

The different ethnic groups descended from different primate species, each with different limitations on its evolution. That is obvious if you live in the real world, but not if you live in a childish Kumbaya cartoon-world.

Ok. So Germans between 10,000 and 1000 BC were inferior to Egyptians but then became superior

I am lost on the fine points of your theory.

When Self-Righteous Social Justice Clouds Come Down to Earth, They Become Fog

It's hard for someone who immerses himself in touchy-feely high-in-the-sky Kumbaya media all day to relate to points based on the hard facts of reality.

I asked a question YOU did not answer.

Let me repeat. And don't forget I asked you for clarification when I felt necessary.

To repeat: Ok. So Germans between 10,000 and 1000 BC were inferior to Egyptians but then became superior? (I added the "?")

I am lost on the fine points of your theory.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Divide and Conquer

So what if they did? The French have been decadent since their best youth were slaughtered in World War I. You're trying to create conflict within the White race.

Ah, got it. The French and Spanish are the same race, right?

How about the Egyptians? They a different enough race?

Only Simians Adopted Islam

The Egyptians worship death. All that technology and labor wasted on tombs for their tyrants explains why such a death-wish race would create the Muslim Brotherhood.

Did you just say only monkeys adopted Islam?

Let me get this straight. Germans are genetically superior to Egyptians by this train of thought?

Rainbow Bow-Wows Going, "Wow. Just Wow"

The different ethnic groups descended from different primate species, each with different limitations on its evolution. That is obvious if you live in the real world, but not if you live in a childish Kumbaya cartoon-world.

This is absolute poppycock. Every living human being is descended from one and only one species: homo sapiens.

Think With Your Brains, Not on Your Knees

Don't get cocky, Pop. Results, traced back to logical origins, prove otherwise than what your gurus, pontificating from their infallible thrones, have told you to think.