Actually, believers in the Big Bang do believe that everything came from nothing because they cannot allow for an intelligent designer to have created it in the first place. First, there was nothing that was nowhere, then there was everything contained in a singularity which instantly began expanding into everything that we see today because gravity didn't exist to hold it together. They firmly believe that everything came from nothing, even our experience today says that nothing can come from nothing.
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Zone1 Is Jesus God?
- Thread starter kjw47
- Start date
kjw47
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #42
Hebrew scholars say it does not translate- i am that i am.Exodus 3:13-14
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
God told Moses that his name was I AM and to tell the children of Israel that I AM had sent him. The Hebrew for I AM is אהיה pronounced ’eh·yeh according to BibleHub . If you copy the Hebrew into the following dictionary ( doitinHebrew.com - The Talking Online Hebrew Dictionary and Translation Engine. Learn how to say just about anything in Hebrew. ) you the following translation:
I shall be
or
I will be
The portion of the phrase היה has the following meanings:
to be, exist, be present; happen, occur, take place: become, turn into
Evidently the א portion of the phrase must mean "I" since it is used in both the above translations. Thus I believe that the phrase can also mean, "I exist" or also in English "I Am". So I don't think that the King James translation is off. I believe the translation is spot on. The Greek from John 8:58 also has the meaning of "I exist" or "I am".
kjw47
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #44
Jesus has hand picked teachers today-Matt 24:45Again.......ad hominem excuses? His real teachers?His "real teachers" were the one's Jesus promised to send a helper to bring back remembrance to what they had witnessed.......the Holy Spirit of Truth that the WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE. The passage you are quoting (or rather attempting to cherry pick) clearly indicates that Jesus was addressing His hand picked disciples of the 1st century. This passage is not addressing people of the future.....not you, not your cult, not "I"............Jesus is making a promise to those who actually drafted the N.T. in the 1st century, THE APOSTLES OF CHRIST.
Read the entire chapter.....the entire, verse.........IN CONTEXT. Beginning with John chapter 13.........Jesus is addressing His disciples sitting at the feast table.....specifially He is addressing Peter, who will betray Him 3 times before the cock crows, who asks Jesus why He is washing his feet, Jesus then addresses Judas who betrayed Him for 30 pieces of silver........and all the 11........the text ends Chapter 13 with Jesus declaring, to Peter "the cock shall not crow till thou hast betrayed Me 3 times......the context of chapter 13 continues in Chapter 14........the scene is still the same, Jesus is speaking at the feast table to His Hand Picked Apostles..not the world.........
Chapter 14, Jesus declares to the discieples/apostles at the table, concerning His death to shortly come, and after His death, then He declares.... "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He will abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit)...........WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE..........." -- John 14:15-16
Yet here you are declaring that YOU RECEIVED that which the world cannot receive? Clearly you are LYING. The word of God, that was inspired by the Spirit of God (2 Tim. 3:16-17)........that is the sword of God, has exposed your lies and attempted deceit. (Eph. 6:17)
kjw47
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #46
Its not forevermore. God is letting it be proved once and for all time that he is correct-He created mortals to know only good, satan in the eden rebellion says its better mortals know good and bad then can choose for themselves the best path to happiness. Satan is 100% wrong, its almost done. Gods kingdom rule will be a cure all.If you say so. I'll believe you believe it. As long as you don't want to force me to say I believe it, I'm good with you believing it. I don't believe in a plethora of immortal beings of good and evil that are battling forevermore for our souls. I just learned what I learned as a child many many moons ago.
kjw47
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #47
In the Greek lexicons-The true God is called Ton Theon( The God) at John 1:1, the word is called Theon, when Ton Theon and plain Theon are in the same paragraph, plain Theon= god. 2 Cor 4:4 is proof of that. Its why they are called something different. The only word in Greek for God=Theon, thus if both God and god are in the same paragraph, God got Ton Theon to show the difference.John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
John 1:14 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
If you take something "pre-existing"..........and re-arrange that which pre-exists, you have created nothing new. Creation as defined in the Word of God is to introduce that which did not pre-exist by simply speaking it into existence, i.e, via the use of THE LIVING WORD. Example............this reality called the universe did not exist before it was CREATED BY GOD. Indeed God took that which pre-existed man by 5 creation days and formed Adam from the existing elements. (Genesis What did God create new when man was created? God breathed that which did not pre-exist man, God literally breathed an eternal spirit/soul into man. (Genesis 2:7) Man's day's are numberedI don't believe existence was created. Existence is eternal. Creation is the act of taking things that already exist and forming them into something more. Just as we take the materials that already are and build a ship, so too does God take from that which eternally exists and creates other things. Ex Nihilo Creation is a false doctrine.
Today.......the only doctrine that is valid is the Word of God....as it contains all that is required to make the ".....man of God complete, equipped for every good work." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17. Anyone that declares they have been personally hand picked by Jesus Christ is lying, as the sword of the Spirit........the Word of God exposes their deceit. -- Eph. 6:17Jesus has hand picked teachers today-Matt 24:45
The Christian is commanded not to "........go beyond what is written....." 1 Cor 4:6
Jesus Christ stated, "........man shall not live by bread alone, but from every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." -- Matthew 4:4. We are to be "sanctified in truth"........the Word of God establishes truth. (John 17:17).
As declared by Jesus (John 14:15-31)..........the world was never promised to be baptized in the Holy Spirit with power, that gift was reserved for the Apostles of the 1st century. Jesus was not speaking to joe smith, nor was He speaking to some self declared modern day prophet (JW) that can't produce the scriptural evidence that proves they are true prophets of God. Not one prophecy made by the supposed Jehovah's witnesses has came true........there is a historical record of some "8" failed prophecies.
Does anyone not find it amusing......that all these false cults must declare the Bible has been corrupted and only their personal bible is the true word of God? The "New World Translation" for the JW movement, not only do they claim their bible is the only correct bible, they claim that the common man can't comprehend the written word and must be advised by the church leadership. Next we have the Muslims claiming the bible has been corrupted by hundreds of translations into different world texts..........but only the Koran is has not seen corruption, but they fail to see their own book as being corrupted by the process of translations into different languages, of which there are some 114 translations of specific passages and 47 entire Korans found in different tongues around the world. But only the Holy Bible has been corrupted through translation?
The same for the Mormons.............they have plagiarized a great deal of the King James Bible and transferred the content to the book of mormon, yet claim, the Holy Bible has been corrupted in passages that contradict their false doctrines. Why do so many different personally written Bibles exist......if God is not the author of Confusion? (1 Cor. 14:33)
They are the product of the god of this world who is the father of lies (2 Cor. 4:4) If you have no source source to calibrate TRUTH......there is confusion, that's why the word of God is the Sword of the Spirit. (Eph. 6:17)
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kjw47
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #51
If your post was truth, there would be 1 religion all 100% in agreement on Gods 1 truth,( 1 Cor 1:10) Not hundreds of confused religions with hundreds of different truths. Jesus is with 1 single religion. He appoints his teachers, he is the head of the congregation. In a single religion-the one that is hated.If you take something "pre-existing"..........and re-arrange that which pre-exists, you have created nothing new. Creation as defined in the Word of God is to introduce that which did not pre-exist by simply speaking it into existence, i.e, via the use of THE LIVING WORD. Example............this reality called the universe did not exist before it was CREATED BY GOD. Indeed God took that which pre-existed man by 5 creation days and formed Adam from the existing elements. (Genesis What did God create new when man was created? God breathed that which did not pre-exist man, God literally breathed an eternal spirit/soul into man. (Genesis 2:7) Man's day's are numbered
Today.......the only doctrine that is valid is the Word of God....as it contains all that is required to make the ".....man of God complete, equipped for every good work." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17. Anyone that declares they have been personally hand picked by Jesus Christ is lying, as the sword of the Spirit........the Word of God exposes their deceit. -- Eph. 6:17
The Christian is commanded not to "........go beyond what is written....." 1 Cor 4:6
Jesus Christ stated, "........man shall not live by bread alone, but from every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." -- Matthew 4:4. We are to be "sanctified in truth"........the Word of God establishes truth. (John 17:17).
As declared by Jesus (John 14:15-31)..........the world was never promised to be baptized in the Holy Spirit with power, that gift was reserved for the Apostles of the 1st century. Jesus was not speaking to joe smith, nor was He speaking to some self declared modern day prophet (JW) that can't produce the scriptural evidence that proves they are true prophets of God. Not one prophecy made by the supposed Jehovah's witnesses has came true........there is a historical record of some "8" failed prophecies.
Does anyone not find it amusing......that all these false cults must declare the Bible has been corrupted and only their personal bible is the true word of God? The "New World Translation" for the JW movement, not only do they claim their bible is the only correct bible, they claim that the common man can't comprehend the written word and must be advised by the church leadership. Next we have the Muslims claiming the bible has been corrupted by hundreds of translations into different world texts..........but only the Koran is has not seen corruption, but they fail to see their own book as being corrupted by the process of translations into different languages, of which there are some 114 translations of specific passages and 47 entire Korans found in different tongues around the world. But only the Holy Bible has been corrupted through translation?
The same for the Mormons.............they have plagiarized a great deal of the King James Bible and transferred the content to the book of mormon, yet claim, the Holy Bible has been corrupted in passages that contradict their false doctrines. Why do so many different personally written Bibles exist......if God is not the author of Confusion? (1 Cor. 14:33)
They are the product of the god of this world who is the father of lies (2 Cor. 4:4) If you have no source source to calibrate TRUTH......there is confusion, that's why the word of God is the Sword of the Spirit. (Eph. 6:17)
That is not the way I see it when translating the English back to Greek.In the Greek lexicons-The true God is called Ton Theon( The God) at John 1:1, the word is called Theon, when Ton Theon and plain Theon are in the same paragraph, plain Theon= god. 2 Cor 4:4 is proof of that. Its why they are called something different. The only word in Greek for God=Theon, thus if both God and god are in the same paragraph, God got Ton Theon to show the difference.
If I take a block of wood and carve it into the shape of a car and put some miniature wheels on it, you are saying that the toy car always existed. I say that is B.S. Please show me the definition of Creation in the word of God where it states that creation is making things from absolutely nothing. God commanded unorganized chaotic matter to organize into worlds and other spheres to fill the immensity of space and thus created the universe. The elements are eternal and preexisted their organization in what was created in those 5 creation days you speak of. Mankind, as spirit beings, preexisted the creation of this earth.If you take something "pre-existing"..........and re-arrange that which pre-exists, you have created nothing new. Creation as defined in the Word of God is to introduce that which did not pre-exist by simply speaking it into existence, i.e, via the use of THE LIVING WORD. Example............this reality called the universe did not exist before it was CREATED BY GOD. Indeed God took that which pre-existed man by 5 creation days and formed Adam from the existing elements. (Genesis What did God create new when man was created? God breathed that which did not pre-exist man, God literally breathed an eternal spirit/soul into man. (Genesis 2:7) Man's day's are numbered
Man, Antemortal Existence of
- See also Council in Heaven; Foreordination; Man, a Spirit Child of Heavenly Father; Spirit Creation
- God of the spirits of all flesh, Num. 16:22 (27:16).
- all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38:7.
- the spirit shall return unto God who gave it, Eccl. 12:7.
- Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, Jer. 1:5.
- Lord … formeth the spirit of man within him, Zech. 12:1.
- who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind, John 9:2.
- poets have said, For we are also his offspring, Acts 17:28-29.
- For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate, Rom. 8:29.
- chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1:4.
- subjection unto the Father of spirits, Heb. 12:9.
- angels which kept not their first estate, Jude 1:6.
- Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, Rev. 12:7.
- called and prepared from the foundation of the world, Alma 13:3.
- bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord, Hel. 14:17.
- third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away, D&C 29:36.
- seraphic hosts of heaven, before the world was made, D&C 38:1.
- man, according to his creation before the world, D&C 49:17.
- Man was also in the beginning with God, D&C 93:29.
- choice spirits who were reserved to come forth, D&C 138:53.
- before they were born … received their first lessons, D&C 138:56.
- in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, Moses 3:5.
- he beheld the spirits that God had created, Moses 6:36.
- intelligences that were organized before the world was, Abr. 3:22.
- he stood among those that were spirits, Abr. 3:23.
- took his spirit … and put it into him, Abr. 5:7.
- See also Prov. 8:22–31; John 1:2, 14; 8:58; 16:28; 17:5, 24; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 1:2; 3 Ne. 1:13; 26:5; Ether 3:16.
Matthew 4:In altered translations maybe. Jesus would not contradict John 17:3
5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not [a]tempt the Lord your God.’ ”
John 8:
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going[a] through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Luke 5:
23 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’? 24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
25 Immediately he rose up before them, took up what he had been lying on, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.
In all of these, Jesus clearly claimed to be God. He used the actual term when confronting the devil as He was being tempted. The Jews very certainly remembered that God called Himself, "I AM" when talking to Moses, and the Jews also understood that only God has the power to forgive sin. There can be no doubt that Jesus claimed to be God. Please show me the translations that you claim are unaltered that do not have these. Also, these came from the New King James version, and the King James version is widely accepted as one of the most faithful to the original Hebrew and Greek. If you insist, I'll be glad to show you the same verses from the original King James, which, as you know, is not a modern translation at all.
Carl in Michigan
Diamond Member
- Aug 15, 2016
- 58,973
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"Before Abraham was, I AM."
The Jews understood what He said, even if the biblically illiterate dont
The Jews understood what He said, even if the biblically illiterate dont
Search the scriptures daily, whether these things are so. (Acts 17:11) Ever hear of "MAMBLA"? I have as much respect for those who attempt to PERVERT the gospel as those who would rape small children. A pervert is a pervert.If your post was truth, there would be 1 religion all 100% in agreement on Gods 1 truth,( 1 Cor 1:10) Not hundreds of confused religions with hundreds of different truths. Jesus is with 1 single religion. He appoints his teachers, he is the head of the congregation. In a single religion-the one that is hated.
You mean the Holy Scriptures are lying when they declare, "There is ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT, just as you were called to the ONE HOPE that belongs to your call........ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, WHO IS OVER ALL AND THROUGH ALL AND ALL." -- Eph. 4:4-6
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and preform great sings and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." -- Matt. 24:24
Many are called, few are chosen -- Matt.22:14
Reality............there are many false doctrines, but only 1 true doctrine. There cannot be one truth for you, another truth for the next denomination.......on and on, there can be only 1 TRUTH, but any number of lies can exist that outnumber the starts in the heavens. Example: I believe that one must pray to a spotted dog in order to speak to the Lord. But when you search the scriptures to see if this false doctrine exists...........the sword of the Spirit, the Word of God, exposes this false doctrine. (Eph. 6:17). The same for Mormons, JW, Mulsims, the Buddha........re-incarnation....etc. The word of God contradicts these false doctrines.
By your logic.........it does not matter what doctrine you follow, all paths lead to the Lord Jesus Christ. Truth: There are many teachers of false doctrine that will realize at judgment........there is only one true path when they hear the Lord declare, "Not everyone that saith to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven. ............................THEN I (the Lord Jesus Christ) WILL PROFESS UNTO THEM; I NEVER KNEW YOU; DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY." -- Matt. 7:21-23
Reality: There are many supposed denominations (each preaching a different doctrine) because their faith is not calibrated by the TRUTH.........THE WORD OF GOD is truth. (John 17:17). There is only ONE faith.........one church/kingdom, its the church that calibrates its doctrine via the Word of God, a doctrine does not go beyond what is written -- 1 Cor. 4:6
There are many FALSE CHRISTS and many FALSE DOCTRINES that have perverted the Word of God, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Jesus Christ INTO ANOTHER GOSPEL: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, AND WOULD PERVERT THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST." -- Gal. 1:6-7
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kjw47
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #57
The NT was written in Greek.That is not the way I see it when translating the English back to Greek.
In 1822, A Greek scholar-A.Kneeland translated the NT from the Greek Lexicons--He compared Greek and English side by side to prove to the world-a god is correct to the word at John 1:1, 19 other translations had a god, 3 had was divine, 1 had was godlike. All rejected by trinity religions because that single fact proves them all to be false religion. The scholars today know its fact, yet say nothing because billions of $$$ would be lost yearly and 2 billion humans suing them for taking their $$ because they do know a god is correct.
kjw47
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #58
I am- i lived before Abraham, an honest answer to what they asked. You see, there is no i am that i am in the Hebrew written OT as altered trinity translations have it. I will be what i will be is the translating of that Hebrew statement in the OT.Matthew 4:
5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not [a]tempt the Lord your God.’ ”
John 8:
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going[a] through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Luke 5:
23 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’? 24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
25 Immediately he rose up before them, took up what he had been lying on, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.
In all of these, Jesus clearly claimed to be God. He used the actual term when confronting the devil as He was being tempted. The Jews very certainly remembered that God called Himself, "I AM" when talking to Moses, and the Jews also understood that only God has the power to forgive sin. There can be no doubt that Jesus claimed to be God. Please show me the translations that you claim are unaltered that do not have these. Also, these came from the New King James version, and the King James version is widely accepted as one of the most faithful to the original Hebrew and Greek. If you insist, I'll be glad to show you the same verses from the original King James, which, as you know, is not a modern translation at all.
Trinity translations are altered by satans will to mislead.
I don't think differences in interpretation of the scripture make anybody a 'false religion.' I will express my best understanding of what the scriptures say but do not necessarily think anybody's else's interpretation to be any more authoritative or that I am any kind of final authority. I am constantly learning and hope to learn more.The NT was written in Greek.
In 1822, A Greek scholar-A.Kneeland translated the NT from the Greek Lexicons--He compared Greek and English side by side to prove to the world-a god is correct to the word at John 1:1, 19 other translations had a god, 3 had was divine, 1 had was godlike. All rejected by trinity religions because that single fact proves them all to be false religion. The scholars today know its fact, yet say nothing because billions of $$$ would be lost yearly and 2 billion humans suing them for taking their $$ because they do know a god is correct.
And I am 100% convinced that NONE of us know the whole truth of much of anything, and when we get to heaven we'll have a good laugh at how much of all this we got wrong.
kjw47
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #60
Do you mean pervert it by removing Gods name in the over 7000 places he willed it because he wants it there? Removed by wicked men for satans will. Only false religions use those altered versions and have the gaul to condemn the translators who put Gods name back out of love and respect for Gods will. That is the reality of it.Search the scriptures daily, whether these things are so. (Acts 17:11) Ever hear of "MAMBLA"? I have as much respect for those who attempt to PERVERT the gospel as those who would rape small children. A pervert is a pervert.
You mean the Holy Scriptures are lying when they declare, "There is ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT, just as you were called to the ONE HOPE that belongs to your call........ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, WHO IS OVER ALL AND THROUGH ALL AND ALL." -- Eph. 4:4-6
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and preform great sings and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." -- Matt. 24:24
Many are called, few are chosen -- Matt.22:14
Reality............there are many false doctrines, but only 1 true doctrine. There cannot be one truth for you, another truth for the next denomination.......on and on, there can be only 1 TRUTH, but any number of lies can exist that outnumber the starts in the heavens. Example: I believe that one must pray to a spotted dog in order to speak to the Lord. But when you search the scriptures to see if this false doctrine exists...........the sword of the Spirit, the Word of God, exposes this false doctrine. (Eph. 6:17). The same for Mormons, JW, Mulsims, the Buddha........re-incarnation....etc. The word of God contradicts these false doctrines.
By your logic.........it does not matter what doctrine you follow, all paths lead to the Lord Jesus Christ. Truth: There are many teachers of false doctrine that will realize at judgment........there is only one true path when they hear the Lord declare, "Not everyone that saith to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven. ............................THEN I (the Lord Jesus Christ) WILL PROFESS UNTO THEM; I NEVER KNEW YOU; DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY." -- Matt. 7:21-23
Reality: There are many supposed denominations (each preaching a different doctrine) because their faith is not calibrated by the TRUTH.........THE WORD OF GOD is truth. (John 17:17). There is only ONE faith.........one church/kingdom, its the church that calibrates its doctrine via the Word of God, a doctrine does not go beyond what is written -- 1 Cor. 4:6
There are many FALSE CHRISTS and many FALSE DOCTRINES that have perverted the Word of God, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Jesus Christ INTO ANOTHER GOSPEL: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, AND WOULD PERVERT THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST." -- Gal. 1:6-7
Yes the word of God is truth
Matt 6:33-Keep on seeking-FIRST the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)
The Jw,s get this deep into each flock members heart. trinity religions do not listen to Jesus and teach to seek Jesus' righteousness first--they will lose.
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