Is man a spiritual being?

[ding]

Seriously what better cover is there for a militant atheist Jew than to disguise himself as believing in God so he can subordinate Christianity.

lol...


What I am actually doing is showing the only rational way to interpret the fantastical claims of scripture that conforms to and is confirmed by reality, the only rational way to interpret the irrational things that Christians already profess to believe, the only rational way to interpret the nutty things that Jesus said, the only rational way to understand and conform to divine law that fulfills the promise of life.

In the process the antichrist, unleashed on the world in 325 c.e. by Rome, will be completely destroyed.

You got a problem with that?

You are making a critical theory argument. You are stating what you believe it isn’t. Not what you believe it is. If you were to state what you believe it is, then you would reveal exactly what I have been saying. You are a militant atheist Jew.

How can I have a problem? I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

OK, let me get this straight. I show you how what you profess to believe is in error and then show you what is right regarding the subjects of miracles, the virgin birth, the resurrection, divine law etc. I show you how eucharistic adoration is idolatry, I show you how bread from heaven became flesh, a metaphor for teaching from God which is the actual body of Christ.

And you act like I have never stated my beliefs? All you have to say for yourself is that I am a militant atheist Jew.

You can do all things through Christ who strengthens you ? When is he going to help you to be honest?

A matzo is your source of spiritual life because you have faith and I don't? Really? You're a spiritual person?

You're not not just a liar?

That is correct. You don’t have beliefs. You have arguments against my beliefs. It’s your mission.

Well when you come at us with your unfounded beliefs we can either believe too, doubt you or spear you like those Indians on those islands speared that missionary who wouldn’t take go away seriously.

I haven't come at you with my beliefs, sealybobo. You are here seeking out my beliefs.

The only ones being speared are you guys. I keep wondering when you will have enough.

 

[toobfreak]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss if man is predisposed to spirituality.

Off hand, I'd say he was, since mankind INVENTED religion and spirituality. But then modern, western, technological civilization came along, driven mad with ambition, lust for wealth, power and control over others, putting the machine and the almighty dollar ahead of people, life, and the planet. Today, the Western Civilization running the planet is inherently destructive of all, it is farther from spirituality and being in tune with nature, the Cosmos and the planet, than any life on the face of the planet in the entire history of the Earth.

And so, eventually, western civilization like Rome, will fall under its own weight and greed to be buried in the dust of time, for immorality can stand for only so long before it is finally consumed by its own corruption.

 

[ding]

Why am I not surprised that your “science” comes from YouTube videos?

Anything from Henry Morris you would like to dump into the thread?

You'd have to actually watch it first before you could logically dismiss it. The time stamps prove you never actually watched it. It's a 45 minute long discussion by a world renowned physicist to a room full of world renowned physicists.

You would actually have to be silly to suggest a YouTube video is a comprehensive consensus on science.

We’re still left with nothing in your long cutting and pasting that offers any suggestion that the gods had any supernatural hand in existence.

The Discovery Institute or perhaps some other of the fundamentalist creation ministries may have some YouTube videos.

Thrill us, won’t you?

You would actually have had to watch it to know it is the comprehensive consensus on science. But let me offer you another expert testimony that it is a comprehensive consensus in science....

Today – even before Monday’s revelations – you’d be hard-pressed to find a scientist who disputed the Big Bang theory; it’s the only one that makes scientific sense, said Professor Tsvi Piran, Schwartzmann University Chair at Hebrew University’s Racah Institute of Physics.

New Big Bang evidence supports Biblical creation, says Orthodox physicist

There are only two possibilities. Either spirit created the material world or spirit did not create the material world. If spirit did not create the material world you will have a hard time proving that matter and energy existed before space and time. If spirit created the material world, that problem goes away. Why? Because it is not possible for matter and energy to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium. The only thing which can be eternal and unchanging is no thing. As in no material thing. So logic informs our answers and since the material world was created following the laws of nature (also something which is no thing) the best answer, however hard it is for you to swallow, is that the material world was created by spirit.

I don’t think appeals to spirit worlds, supernaturalism and other things that go bump in the night are really helpful.

That fear of the unknown served us well when tigers and bears were hunting us while we slept. It comforted everyone to know grandmother was going to join granddaddy

Unfortunately the data doesn't suggest spirituality is going away, Sealybobo. People retain their spirituality because we were made for spirituality and because spirituality has a functional advantage. If it were as you say, spirituality would have died out. That's not what the data shows. The data shows that people are turning away from organized religion but are retaining their spirituality. They don't leave religion and become atheists. Atheism is an intellectual dead end which offers no functional advantages.

You do realize that the two components of natural selection are functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation, right?

I really enjoy these conversations because the lack of logic employed by you guys serves as a contrast.

 

[Hollie]

Why am I not surprised that your “science” comes from YouTube videos?

Anything from Henry Morris you would like to dump into the thread?

You'd have to actually watch it first before you could logically dismiss it. The time stamps prove you never actually watched it. It's a 45 minute long discussion by a world renowned physicist to a room full of world renowned physicists.

You would actually have to be silly to suggest a YouTube video is a comprehensive consensus on science.

We’re still left with nothing in your long cutting and pasting that offers any suggestion that the gods had any supernatural hand in existence.

The Discovery Institute or perhaps some other of the fundamentalist creation ministries may have some YouTube videos.

Thrill us, won’t you?

Here is expert testimony from CERN. You know who CERN is, right?

According to most astrophysicists, all the matter found in the universe today -- including the matter in people, plants, animals, the earth, stars, and galaxies -- was created at the very first moment of time, thought to be about 13 billion years ago.

The universe began, scientists believe, with every speck of its energy jammed into a very tiny point. This extremely dense point exploded with unimaginable force, creating matter and propelling it outward to make the billions of galaxies of our vast universe. Astrophysicists dubbed this titanic explosion the Big Bang.

Origins: CERN: Ideas: The Big Bang | Exploratorium

Did you realize that link actually contradicts your earlier claims?

No. Because it doesn't.

I understand that you’re embarrassed at refuting your own attempt at argument.

Be more careful and attempt to make a coherent claim.

 

[ding]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss if man is predisposed to spirituality.

Off hand, I'd say he was, since mankind INVENTED religion and spirituality. But then modern, western, technological civilization came along, driven mad with ambition, lust for wealth, power and control over others, putting the machine and the almighty dollar ahead of people, life, and the planet. Today, the Western Civilization running the planet is inherently destructive of all, it is farther from spirituality and being in tune with nature, the Cosmos and the planet, than any life on the face of the planet in the entire history of the Earth.

And so, eventually, western civilization like Rome, will fall under its own weight and greed to be buried in the dust of time, for immorality can stand for only so long before it is finally consumed by its own corruption.

Have you ever read Solzhenitysn's Harvard Address? It's a long read (10 minutes or so). His observations are spot on. Halfway through is amazing stuff. He really nails how materialism will be our destruction. I'd really like to hear your opinion on it.

Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn -- A World Split Apart — Commencement Address Delivered At Harvard University, June 8, 1978

 

[ding]

You'd have to actually watch it first before you could logically dismiss it. The time stamps prove you never actually watched it. It's a 45 minute long discussion by a world renowned physicist to a room full of world renowned physicists.

You would actually have to be silly to suggest a YouTube video is a comprehensive consensus on science.

We’re still left with nothing in your long cutting and pasting that offers any suggestion that the gods had any supernatural hand in existence.

The Discovery Institute or perhaps some other of the fundamentalist creation ministries may have some YouTube videos.

Thrill us, won’t you?

Here is expert testimony from CERN. You know who CERN is, right?

According to most astrophysicists, all the matter found in the universe today -- including the matter in people, plants, animals, the earth, stars, and galaxies -- was created at the very first moment of time, thought to be about 13 billion years ago.

The universe began, scientists believe, with every speck of its energy jammed into a very tiny point. This extremely dense point exploded with unimaginable force, creating matter and propelling it outward to make the billions of galaxies of our vast universe. Astrophysicists dubbed this titanic explosion the Big Bang.

Origins: CERN: Ideas: The Big Bang | Exploratorium

Did you realize that link actually contradicts your earlier claims?

No. Because it doesn't.

I understand that you’re embarrassed at refuting your own attempt at argument.

Be more careful and attempt to make a coherent claim.

I didn't think you could explain it. You have got to be a leftist.

 

[Hollie]

You would actually have to be silly to suggest a YouTube video is a comprehensive consensus on science.

We’re still left with nothing in your long cutting and pasting that offers any suggestion that the gods had any supernatural hand in existence.

The Discovery Institute or perhaps some other of the fundamentalist creation ministries may have some YouTube videos.

Thrill us, won’t you?

Here is expert testimony from CERN. You know who CERN is, right?

According to most astrophysicists, all the matter found in the universe today -- including the matter in people, plants, animals, the earth, stars, and galaxies -- was created at the very first moment of time, thought to be about 13 billion years ago.

The universe began, scientists believe, with every speck of its energy jammed into a very tiny point. This extremely dense point exploded with unimaginable force, creating matter and propelling it outward to make the billions of galaxies of our vast universe. Astrophysicists dubbed this titanic explosion the Big Bang.

Origins: CERN: Ideas: The Big Bang | Exploratorium

Did you realize that link actually contradicts your earlier claims?

No. Because it doesn't.

I understand that you’re embarrassed at refuting your own attempt at argument.

Be more careful and attempt to make a coherent claim.

I didn't think you could explain it. You have got to be a leftist.

You’re flailing about.

 

[ding]

Here is expert testimony from CERN. You know who CERN is, right?

According to most astrophysicists, all the matter found in the universe today -- including the matter in people, plants, animals, the earth, stars, and galaxies -- was created at the very first moment of time, thought to be about 13 billion years ago.

The universe began, scientists believe, with every speck of its energy jammed into a very tiny point. This extremely dense point exploded with unimaginable force, creating matter and propelling it outward to make the billions of galaxies of our vast universe. Astrophysicists dubbed this titanic explosion the Big Bang.

Origins: CERN: Ideas: The Big Bang | Exploratorium

Did you realize that link actually contradicts your earlier claims?

No. Because it doesn't.

I understand that you’re embarrassed at refuting your own attempt at argument.

Be more careful and attempt to make a coherent claim.

I didn't think you could explain it. You have got to be a leftist.

You’re flailing about.

Israel will be an Arab state if they are relying on people like you.

 

[toobfreak]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss if man is predisposed to spirituality.

Off hand, I'd say he was, since mankind INVENTED religion and spirituality. But then modern, western, technological civilization came along, driven mad with ambition, lust for wealth, power and control over others, putting the machine and the almighty dollar ahead of people, life, and the planet. Today, the Western Civilization running the planet is inherently destructive of all, it is farther from spirituality and being in tune with nature, the Cosmos and the planet, than any life on the face of the planet in the entire history of the Earth.

And so, eventually, western civilization like Rome, will fall under its own weight and greed to be buried in the dust of time, for immorality can stand for only so long before it is finally consumed by its own corruption.

Have you ever read Solzhenitysn's Harvard Address? It's a long read (10 minutes or so). His observations are spot on. Halfway through is amazing stuff. He really nails how materialism will be our destruction. I'd really like to hear your opinion on it.

Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn -- A World Split Apart — Commencement Address Delivered At Harvard University, June 8, 1978

I'm sure its real good but I don't need to read the opinions of philosophers. Sooner or later they all grasp a hint of reality.

 

[ding]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss if man is predisposed to spirituality.

Off hand, I'd say he was, since mankind INVENTED religion and spirituality. But then modern, western, technological civilization came along, driven mad with ambition, lust for wealth, power and control over others, putting the machine and the almighty dollar ahead of people, life, and the planet. Today, the Western Civilization running the planet is inherently destructive of all, it is farther from spirituality and being in tune with nature, the Cosmos and the planet, than any life on the face of the planet in the entire history of the Earth.

And so, eventually, western civilization like Rome, will fall under its own weight and greed to be buried in the dust of time, for immorality can stand for only so long before it is finally consumed by its own corruption.

Have you ever read Solzhenitysn's Harvard Address? It's a long read (10 minutes or so). His observations are spot on. Halfway through is amazing stuff. He really nails how materialism will be our destruction. I'd really like to hear your opinion on it.

Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn -- A World Split Apart — Commencement Address Delivered At Harvard University, June 8, 1978

I'm sure its real good but I don't need to read the opinions of philosophers. Sooner or later they all grasp a hint of reality.

He's not a philosopher. He's actually been on both sides of good and evil and has first hand experience of communism. Your call though.

 

[Hollie]

Did you realize that link actually contradicts your earlier claims?

No. Because it doesn't.

I understand that you’re embarrassed at refuting your own attempt at argument.

Be more careful and attempt to make a coherent claim.

I didn't think you could explain it. You have got to be a leftist.

You’re flailing about.

Israel will be an Arab state if they are relying on people like you.

You’re quite flummoxed.

 

[ding]

^ dunning effect

 

[Hollie]

^ dunning effect

Shall I take the above to presume you have chosen to abandon your earlier false claims and subsequent denials?

 

[RodISHI]

You missed your calling you could have done little info bites and been something like Obama, "Like your demons? You can keep them your demons."

Is that you're way of saying that what you said was pure fartsmoke?

Nah, just like everyone else I have other things to do rather that sit here and placate you or help you in your demonic desires to deny the Spirit of God exists in the children here in this world.

You said something and can't explain yourself. That equals pure fartsmoke on your part. Make sure you keep a window open at your place.

Nah you just can't get there and are not sure if your missing out on something or not so you try to call yourself a winner. Its pretty sad if one wanted to dwell on it but I don't so you can think however you like because you are going to anyhow.

I never called myself a winner, you made that up. I simply asked you to explain yourself and all I get now is a lot of tap dancing.

What do you call it when you are the one saying, "I win"? I was wondering by the way what is it you think you have won by trying to deny someone else their faith in God?

 

[Taz]

My, but I have you quite rattled.

Because you’re not emotionally or intellectually prepared to participate in these discussions, perhaps you should stop.

Or, continue with your tirades.

I see it the other way around as you are the one who has sought me out.

But I am more than happy for a Jew to evangelize her faith by attacking mine. I'm not the one violating the Jewish faith's rule to not evangelize the Jewish faith.

So I’m guessing that you now realize there is no indication that the laws of nature (as we know them) existed before time and space. For that matter, there is no consensus in science that the major disruption in matter and energy we call the Big Bang actually begat time and space.

No. I don't realize that. Before space and time the laws of nature existed. All of them; physical, biological and moral.

Are you going to evangelize your Jewish faith some more?

I’m not impressed with your “.... because I say so”, arguments.

Nothing in the various bibles supports your statement so are we to assume you have nvented a new, fancy, designer religion?

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them in writing.

Approximately 1500 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 1500 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of creation and describes that the universe was created in steps or stage or phases. Scientific evidence tells us that the universe had a beginning and started out as subatomic particles and very quickly formed hydrogen and helium. This is called cosmic evolution. The hydrogen and helium formed stellar structures such as galaxies. This is called stellar evolution. The supernovas of stars created all of the elements and compounds that we see through fusion. This is called chemical evolution. All of these stages or phases had to occur before inanimate matter could make the leap to life. An event we still do not fully understand although the best understanding is that it can only occur in hot, wet conditions with an atmosphere rich in certain chemical compounds. Even with these condition being present we do not know how these chemical compounds could fold themselves in just the correct sequence to create life capable of replicating itself. The amount of information required for life to replicate is staggering. But however life made this leap we know it had to begin from a single celled organism and evolved into evermore increasing complex life forms up to the point that beings that know and create eventually arose.

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis tells us that space and time had a beginning, that it was created in steps and that life came from inanimate matter.

Like Hollie says, it's another one of your "because I say so" arguments. Didn't I already school you on the difference between theory and fact?

 

[Taz]

Is that you're way of saying that what you said was pure fartsmoke?

Nah, just like everyone else I have other things to do rather that sit here and placate you or help you in your demonic desires to deny the Spirit of God exists in the children here in this world.

You said something and can't explain yourself. That equals pure fartsmoke on your part. Make sure you keep a window open at your place.

Nah you just can't get there and are not sure if your missing out on something or not so you try to call yourself a winner. Its pretty sad if one wanted to dwell on it but I don't so you can think however you like because you are going to anyhow.

I never called myself a winner, you made that up. I simply asked you to explain yourself and all I get now is a lot of tap dancing.

What do you call it when you are the one saying, "I win"? I was wondering by the way what is it you think you have won by trying to deny someone else their faith in God?

I'm not looking to "win", just to explore whether what you're saying has any truth to it (it doesn't). Maybe after talking with me, you simply feel like a loser?

 

[Hollie]

You'd have to actually watch it first before you could logically dismiss it. The time stamps prove you never actually watched it. It's a 45 minute long discussion by a world renowned physicist to a room full of world renowned physicists.

You would actually have to be silly to suggest a YouTube video is a comprehensive consensus on science.

We’re still left with nothing in your long cutting and pasting that offers any suggestion that the gods had any supernatural hand in existence.

The Discovery Institute or perhaps some other of the fundamentalist creation ministries may have some YouTube videos.

Thrill us, won’t you?

You would actually have had to watch it to know it is the comprehensive consensus on science. But let me offer you another expert testimony that it is a comprehensive consensus in science....

Today – even before Monday’s revelations – you’d be hard-pressed to find a scientist who disputed the Big Bang theory; it’s the only one that makes scientific sense, said Professor Tsvi Piran, Schwartzmann University Chair at Hebrew University’s Racah Institute of Physics.

New Big Bang evidence supports Biblical creation, says Orthodox physicist

There are only two possibilities. Either spirit created the material world or spirit did not create the material world. If spirit did not create the material world you will have a hard time proving that matter and energy existed before space and time. If spirit created the material world, that problem goes away. Why? Because it is not possible for matter and energy to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium. The only thing which can be eternal and unchanging is no thing. As in no material thing. So logic informs our answers and since the material world was created following the laws of nature (also something which is no thing) the best answer, however hard it is for you to swallow, is that the material world was created by spirit.

I don’t think appeals to spirit worlds, supernaturalism and other things that go bump in the night are really helpful.

That fear of the unknown served us well when tigers and bears were hunting us while we slept. It comforted everyone to know grandmother was going to join granddaddy

Unfortunately the data doesn't suggest spirituality is going away, Sealybobo. People retain their spirituality because we were made for spirituality and because spirituality has a functional advantage. If it were as you say, spirituality would have died out. That's not what the data shows. The data shows that people are turning away from organized religion but are retaining their spirituality. They don't leave religion and become atheists. Atheism is an intellectual dead end which offers no functional advantages.

You do realize that the two components of natural selection are functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation, right?

I really enjoy these conversations because the lack of logic employed by you guys serves as a contrast.

Your “…. Because I say so” arguments are comedy gold. If, as you claim, “spirituality has a functional advantage”, I would have thought you could have supported that statement. But of course you did not. What “functional advantage” does spirituality offer?

I think that the problem most people have with rationality (as opposed to mysticism and belief in spirit worlds), is that they perceive that it doesn't address human intangible issues such as emotions, hence they feel reason is somehow inadequate. I take a very different view. Stripped of reason, one cannot even perceive the concept of love or hate or compassion, so therefore, the keystone of our perception of existence *must* be reason. I believe that mankind will continue to peel back the layers of mystery that enshrouds us, and I believe that he can only do so using his rationality. To purport an "incomprensible" Being means that you have a guaranteed method of making the Universe exactly that: incomprehensible. Ultimately, I think it very possible that our intellect will afford us the chance to peer into the very fabric of existence.

It’s remarkable how you singlehandedly refute your own comments. Another of your “…. Because I say so” gems is that “Atheism is an intellectual dead end which offers no functional advantages”. Yet, in the same paragraph you acknowledge that “The data shows that people are turning away from organized religion but are retaining their spirituality”. As usual, you supply no data, just “…. Because I say so”.

So much of the above is characteristic of a child who has not developed the cognitive skills to make choices and come to rational conclusions. Can someone sweep away facts and evidence when they are counter to the faith? Yes. You can. But you know what? That is symptomatic of what a delusional person does. But wait, it gets worse-- because to rationalize irrationality because it meets some arbitrary standard one holds is an utter lack of accepting responsibility for what the ideology teaches. Trying to force the conclusion of an argument to contradict the evidence really dismantles the theism.

I don't understand the enjoyment you get in these conversations when your arguments self-refute.

 

[RodISHI]

Nah, just like everyone else I have other things to do rather that sit here and placate you or help you in your demonic desires to deny the Spirit of God exists in the children here in this world.

You said something and can't explain yourself. That equals pure fartsmoke on your part. Make sure you keep a window open at your place.

Nah you just can't get there and are not sure if your missing out on something or not so you try to call yourself a winner. Its pretty sad if one wanted to dwell on it but I don't so you can think however you like because you are going to anyhow.

I never called myself a winner, you made that up. I simply asked you to explain yourself and all I get now is a lot of tap dancing.

What do you call it when you are the one saying, "I win"? I was wondering by the way what is it you think you have won by trying to deny someone else their faith in God?

I'm not looking to "win", just to explore whether what you're saying has any truth to it (it doesn't). Maybe after talking with me, you simply feel like a loser?

Your exploration of my limited testimony, and your disbelief is noted, and it is not a loss to me as your path is not the same as mine.

 

[Taz]

You said something and can't explain yourself. That equals pure fartsmoke on your part. Make sure you keep a window open at your place.

Nah you just can't get there and are not sure if your missing out on something or not so you try to call yourself a winner. Its pretty sad if one wanted to dwell on it but I don't so you can think however you like because you are going to anyhow.

I never called myself a winner, you made that up. I simply asked you to explain yourself and all I get now is a lot of tap dancing.

What do you call it when you are the one saying, "I win"? I was wondering by the way what is it you think you have won by trying to deny someone else their faith in God?

I'm not looking to "win", just to explore whether what you're saying has any truth to it (it doesn't). Maybe after talking with me, you simply feel like a loser?

Your exploration of my limited testimony, and your disbelief is noted, and it is not a loss to me as your path is not the same as mine.

Nothing you have said so far proves a god. It's personal wishful thinking. I guess there's nothing wrong with that, other than you live in a bit of a fantasy world. But you seem ok with that.

 

[RodISHI]

Nah you just can't get there and are not sure if your missing out on something or not so you try to call yourself a winner. Its pretty sad if one wanted to dwell on it but I don't so you can think however you like because you are going to anyhow.

I never called myself a winner, you made that up. I simply asked you to explain yourself and all I get now is a lot of tap dancing.

What do you call it when you are the one saying, "I win"? I was wondering by the way what is it you think you have won by trying to deny someone else their faith in God?

I'm not looking to "win", just to explore whether what you're saying has any truth to it (it doesn't). Maybe after talking with me, you simply feel like a loser?

Your exploration of my limited testimony, and your disbelief is noted, and it is not a loss to me as your path is not the same as mine.

Nothing you have said so far proves a god. It's personal wishful thinking. I guess there's nothing wrong with that, other than you live in a bit of a fantasy world. But you seem ok with that.

It is not necessary for me to "proves a god" to someone devoid of the knowledge of the spirit within them as it is not my purpose, nor my duty, or is it my obligation to do so.