Is Obama Really this Stupid?

[California Girl]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

But their employer is the Catholic Church - and birth control is against our religion - particularly abortion - which is abhorrent to us. It is, to Catholics, murder.

I don't understand why birth control is against religion. Millions of sperm die whether one ever gets to fertilze an egg or not. And an egg gets wasted every month in the absence of pregnancy, whether birth control is utilized or not. Nothing is really happening any differently with contraception.

It does not matter whether you understand it or not. You are not Catholic, no one is asking you to understand it. We are asking - nay, we are demanding - our right to practice our religion without interference. It does not affect you.

The fact is that, should Obama get his way, the Church's hospitals will have to close to all non-Catholics. Given that the Church treats anyone - of any faith, color, creed or sexual orientation - and much of that from its own funding. Do you really want to pick up the tab for that? I'll be fine, my Church will treat me.... but they won't be allowed to treat a non-Catholic.

Simply put, employees have choices.... if you wish to have birth control funded by your employer... don't take a job working for the Catholic Church.

 

[JoeB131]

It does not matter whether you understand it or not. You are not Catholic, no one is asking you to understand it. We are asking - nay, we are demanding - our right to practice our religion without interference. It does not affect you.

The fact is that, should Obama get his way, the Church's hospitals will have to close to all non-Catholics. Given that the Church treats anyone - of any faith, color, creed or sexual orientation - and much of that from its own funding. Do you really want to pick up the tab for that? I'll be fine, my Church will treat me.... but they won't be allowed to treat a non-Catholic.

Simply put, employees have choices.... if you wish to have birth control funded by your employer... don't take a job working for the Catholic Church.

Nobody is stopping you from practicing your backwards superstitions or letting the corrupt deviants who make up your clergy from running your life.

(Sorry, grew up Catholic. They aren't as evil as Mormons, but they are freakin' close.)

You just can'ti impose them on anyone else.

Only two people should be in on your medical decisions. You and your doctor. Not a bean-counter at an insurance company and not a church deciding they don't approve of your "lifestyle".

What if the church decided it wasn't going to approve AIDS drugs because they don't approve of homosexuality? Or if you boss who is a Jehovah's Witness decides that his insurance company isn't going to cover blood transfusions? Where does it stop?

 

[Fang]

But their employer is the Catholic Church - and birth control is against our religion - particularly abortion - which is abhorrent to us. It is, to Catholics, murder.

I don't understand why birth control is against religion. Millions of sperm die whether one ever gets to fertilze an egg or not. And an egg gets wasted every month in the absence of pregnancy, whether birth control is utilized or not. Nothing is really happening any differently with contraception.

It does not matter whether you understand it or not. You are not Catholic, no one is asking you to understand it. We are asking - nay, we are demanding - our right to practice our religion without interference. It does not affect you.

The fact is that, should Obama get his way, the Church's hospitals will have to close to all non-Catholics. Given that the Church treats anyone - of any faith, color, creed or sexual orientation - and much of that from its own funding. Do you really want to pick up the tab for that? I'll be fine, my Church will treat me.... but they won't be allowed to treat a non-Catholic.

Simply put, employees have choices.... if you wish to have birth control funded by your employer... don't take a job working for the Catholic Church.

My God. What have we gotton ourselves into? Why in the world is "birth control" even being mentioned when it comes to someone's employer? Obama needs to go.

 

[g5000]

This ruling by HHS is yet another reason we need to move away from employer-provided healthcare insurance.

It should also serve as yet another warning to religious institutions about accepting federal funds for ANYTHING. You invited the devil into your house, and now you are whining he is acting like the devil? You can't bitch about the separation of church and state when you are the one that invited the state into your church.

The Catholic charities should just announce they are no longer accepting Medicare or Medicaid patients, and offer an alternative medical insurance to the faithful.

 

[Toro]

It does not matter whether you understand it or not. You are not Catholic, no one is asking you to understand it. We are asking - nay, we are demanding - our right to practice our religion without interference. It does not affect you.

The fact is that, should Obama get his way, the Church's hospitals will have to close to all non-Catholics. Given that the Church treats anyone - of any faith, color, creed or sexual orientation - and much of that from its own funding. Do you really want to pick up the tab for that? I'll be fine, my Church will treat me.... but they won't be allowed to treat a non-Catholic.

Simply put, employees have choices.... if you wish to have birth control funded by your employer... don't take a job working for the Catholic Church.

Nobody is stopping you from practicing your backwards superstitions or letting the corrupt deviants who make up your clergy from running your life.

(Sorry, grew up Catholic. They aren't as evil as Mormons, but they are freakin' close.)

You just can'ti impose them on anyone else.

Only two people should be in on your medical decisions. You and your doctor. Not a bean-counter at an insurance company and not a church deciding they don't approve of your "lifestyle".

What if the church decided it wasn't going to approve AIDS drugs because they don't approve of homosexuality? Or if you boss who is a Jehovah's Witness decides that his insurance company isn't going to cover blood transfusions? Where does it stop?

Obamacare is going to impose on the Catholic church the mandate to fund things it vehemently opposes. Obamacare is all about imposing government power on others.

So if you actually believed in what you just wrote, you would oppose this.

 

[JoeB131]

Nobody is stopping you from practicing your backwards superstitions or letting the corrupt deviants who make up your clergy from running your life.

(Sorry, grew up Catholic. They aren't as evil as Mormons, but they are freakin' close.)

You just can'ti impose them on anyone else.

Only two people should be in on your medical decisions. You and your doctor. Not a bean-counter at an insurance company and not a church deciding they don't approve of your "lifestyle".

What if the church decided it wasn't going to approve AIDS drugs because they don't approve of homosexuality? Or if you boss who is a Jehovah's Witness decides that his insurance company isn't going to cover blood transfusions? Where does it stop?

Obamacare is going to impose on the Catholic church the mandate to fund things it vehemently opposes. Obamacare is all about imposing government power on others.

So if you actually believed in what you just wrote, you would oppose this.

I'm more worried about Church Tyranny than state tryanny. (Probalby because I grew up in a Church tyranny.) We can vote out a president, we can't vote out a Pope no matter how many pedophiles he hides under his dress.

The Church gave its right to bitch they minute it had its hand out for government funds.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqp0eXfpiWU]Congressman John Dingell: Control The People - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JoeB131]

Incidently-

Most Catholic women use birth control banned by church | Reuters

Some 98 percent of sexually active Catholic women have used contraceptive methods banned by the church, research published on Wednesday showed.

A new report from the Guttmacher Institute, the nonprofit sexual health research organization, shows that only 2 percent of Catholic women, even those who regularly attend church, rely on natural family planning.

The latest data shows practices of Catholic women are in line with women of other religious affiliations and adult American women in general.

 

[Trajan]

Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.

Beware the law of unintended consequences. Yes, they get medicare and medicaid... but the Church itself also provides vast amounts of funding - and they treat absolutely anyone, regardless for race, color or creed. If the government had to take up the slack left by this stupidity.... that money's gonna have to be found from somewhere. Don't you think this country is in enough shit without idiots creating more?

It's not gonna 'save' taxpayers money, you fucking idiot.... it's gonna cost even more. Does simple math elude you?

What's wrong with them having those birth control measures on hand, but discouraging their use?

Kind of like what PLANNED PARENTHOOD does with abortions. A woman comes in for an abortion, they educate her on her choices, provide viable alternatives, and if she still demands an abortion... they give her one.

But of course, you probably don't believe the last paragraph, because you've been told that all Planned Parenthood does is abort fetuses.

What's wrong with them having those birth control measures on hand, but discouraging their use? Kind of like what PLANNED PARENTHOOD does with abortions.

dude, I gotta rep you for that, my best laugh of the week....oh wait, you're serious?

 

[Trajan]

Incidently-

Most Catholic women use birth control banned by church | Reuters

Some 98 percent of sexually active Catholic women have used contraceptive methods banned by the church, research published on Wednesday showed.

A new report from the Guttmacher Institute, the nonprofit sexual health research organization, shows that only 2 percent of Catholic women, even those who regularly attend church, rely on natural family planning.

The latest data shows practices of Catholic women are in line with women of other religious affiliations and adult American women in general.

so what? that is an excuse?

 

[Trajan]

Nobody is stopping you from practicing your backwards superstitions or letting the corrupt deviants who make up your clergy from running your life.

(Sorry, grew up Catholic. They aren't as evil as Mormons, but they are freakin' close.)

You just can'ti impose them on anyone else.

Only two people should be in on your medical decisions. You and your doctor. Not a bean-counter at an insurance company and not a church deciding they don't approve of your "lifestyle".

What if the church decided it wasn't going to approve AIDS drugs because they don't approve of homosexuality? Or if you boss who is a Jehovah's Witness decides that his insurance company isn't going to cover blood transfusions? Where does it stop?

Obamacare is going to impose on the Catholic church the mandate to fund things it vehemently opposes. Obamacare is all about imposing government power on others.

So if you actually believed in what you just wrote, you would oppose this.

I'm more worried about Church Tyranny than state tryanny. (Probalby because I grew up in a Church tyranny.) We can vote out a president, we can't vote out a Pope no matter how many pedophiles he hides under his dress.

The Church gave its right to bitch they minute it had its hand out for government funds.

like planned parenthood?

 

[Toro]

I'm more worried about Church Tyranny than state tryanny. (Probalby because I grew up in a Church tyranny.) We can vote out a president, we can't vote out a Pope no matter how many pedophiles he hides under his dress.

Except that the Pope does not pass laws which forces us to abide by or we pay huge fines or go to prison. It's a lot easier to leave the church than leave to the country.

 

[Dot Com]

:yawn: Yes there was a thread about it & it was discussed ad nauseum.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm more worried about Church Tyranny than state tryanny. (Probalby because I grew up in a Church tyranny.) We can vote out a president, we can't vote out a Pope no matter how many pedophiles he hides under his dress.

Except that the Pope does not pass laws which forces us to abide by or we pay huge fines or go to prison. It's a lot easier to leave the church than leave to the country.

True enough. but you don't have freedom of religion unless you have freedom FROM religion.

This is the main reason why I really hate the Mormons with the passion I do. They just don't seem to understand that there is this line between church and state, and church and freedom. They don't like gay marriage, so no one should get a gay marriage. They don't like abortion so no one should get an abortion.

I should not have my medical choices limited because of my employer's superstitions and ignorance.

I'd personally like to get employers out of the health insurance business entirely, because it's a horrible idea.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.

I say we all opt out on the socialist obamacare.

 

[JoeB131]

Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.

I say we all opt out on the socialist obamacare.

Is someone forcing you into it?

I mean, I get insurance from my employer. Every year, the plan sucks a little more as they try to save money. I'm expecting one year, their policy will be, "If you lose an arm, we help you look for it."

I personally think the mandate proposed by Romney and stolen by Obama is a bad idea, because it doesn't address the real problem, just spreads the pain around a bit.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.

I say we all opt out on the socialist obamacare.

Is someone forcing you into it?

I mean, I get insurance from my employer. Every year, the plan sucks a little more as they try to save money. I'm expecting one year, their policy will be, "If you lose an arm, we help you look for it."

I personally think the mandate proposed by Romney and stolen by Obama is a bad idea, because it doesn't address the real problem, just spreads the pain around a bit.

Anytime a gov't. mandates that you have to buy a product that is too much Big Gov't., and unconstitutional.

 

[GuyPinestra]

If you don't like the insurance offered by the Church, don't work for them. Plain and simple.

Do NOT think that you can coerce the Church into financing a practice or procedure that contradicts their faith, that is a fight you CANNOT WIN.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.

You should learn what the issues are before you comment, this has nothing to do with AHA. Obama wants to force everyone to pay for contraceptives in an attempt to make them more affordable for the 2 or 3 women in this country who cannot afford free condoms. This rule will also require gay couples to buy health insurance that covers the pill, which of the men should take it?

 

[TruthSeeker56]

I just read this, so if there is another thread on the topic, my apologies and would ask the mods to merge it. Also, if this is wrong, and any of the liberals / Dems want to refute it, please do so. Because, frankly, I find it stunning that this is true. I can't believe the Democrat party would do something this stupid. (Of course, the conservatives will replay "Why not?")

With gaffe-a-day-Romney and Barack Oncompetent the two candidates, it could be an interesting battle of two guys dueling to shoot themselves in the head faster than the other guy.

The president signed off on a Health and Human Services ruling that says that under ObamaCare, Catholic institutions—including charities, hospitals and schools—will be required by law, for the first time ever, to provide and pay for insurance coverage that includes contraceptives, abortion-inducing drugs and sterilization procedures. If they do not, they will face ruinous fines in the millions of dollars. Or they can always go out of business.

In other words, the Catholic Church was told this week that its institutions can't be Catholic anymore.

I invite you to imagine the moment we are living in without the church's charities, hospitals and schools. And if you know anything about those organizations, you know it is a fantasy that they can afford millions in fines.

There was no reason to make this ruling—none. Except ideology.

The conscience clause, which keeps the church itself from having to bow to such decisions, has always been assumed to cover the church's institutions.

Now the church is fighting back. Priests in an estimated 70% of parishes last Sunday came forward to read strongly worded protests from the church's bishops. The ruling asks the church to abandon Catholic principles and beliefs; it is an abridgment of the First Amendment; it is not acceptable. They say they will not bow to it. They should never bow to it, not only because they are Catholic and cannot be told to take actions that deny their faith, but because they are citizens of the United States.

If they stay strong and fight, they will win. This is in fact a potentially unifying moment for American Catholics, long split left, right and center. Catholic conservatives will immediately and fully oppose the administration's decision. But Catholic liberals, who feel embarrassed and undercut, have also come out in opposition.

The church is split on many things. But do Catholics in the pews want the government telling their church to contravene its beliefs? A president affronting the leadership of the church, and blithely threatening its great institutions? No, they don't want that. They will unite against that.

The smallest part of this story is political. There are 77.7 million Catholics in the United States. In 2008 they made up 27% of the electorate, about 35 million people. Mr. Obama carried the Catholic vote, 54% to 45%. They helped him win.

They won't this year. And guess where a lot of Catholics live? In the battleground states.

There was no reason to pick this fight. It reflects political incompetence on a scale so great as to make Mitt Romney's gaffes a little bitty thing.

There was nothing for the president to gain, except, perhaps, the pleasure of making a great church bow to him.

Enjoy it while you can. You have awakened a sleeping giant.

A Battle the President Can't Win - WSJ.com

The answer to the question is YES.