Is the Bible the inerrent word of God?

[Czernobog]

Funny how the only way you can stay relaxed, and comfortable is by not honestly answering the question in the OP. And I'm not tied into anything. I found what I was seeking. Reason, and logic.

I’ll hop in. Considering we’re talking about people who had no concept that the sun was just a star, and the stars were just suns really really far away, that the earth was round, that disease was cause by tiny life, no concept of matter, energy, atoms, elements, the language/vocabulary to even describe this stuff, and thousands of other things we take for granted today...does it not raise eyebrows for you how close they got the creation story (especially compared to any other creation story out there)? There was a great void and emptiness, then boom, then god gave the heavens and earth shape, then the earth formed land and sea, then god created life in the sea, then the animals of the land, then finally humans...At the very least you have to be impressed with how close this spoken word, passed down for generations and finally into text, came to what we with all our knowledge know. This is people who thought the earth was flat and the sun and moon spinned around them. I mean if you explained how the universe came into existence to a 5 year old, and they went and explained it to other 5 year olds, it just might sound something like that

Yeah, except it wasn't. First, you seem to forget that Genesis isn't as clear on that order as you present. You see, in chapter 1 of Genesis, it does appear to be in the correct evolutionary order. But, then, in chapter 2, the writer of Genesis changed their mind, and insisted that Man was created first, then all of the other animals. Also, there seems to be a little trouble with the physics even in Genesis, Chapter 1, You see, God, somehow, apparently created light, before creating the sun, and stars, even though light is generated by the sun, and stars. You want to pretend that Genesis perfectly aligns with our scientific knowledge of the universe. Except it really doesn't.

The source of light is God. He gives the sun light

Amazing how you guys literally fulfill scriptures in your efforts to reject them

It's amazing that you think a mythical being "gives the Sun light", when science clearly demonstrates how, and why the Sun produces light,. and "God" has nothing to do with it.

 

[Mudda]

You have proof for this tall tale?

The witness of the Holy Ghost. You are free to ask Him for yourself.

Somehow I expect you wont do the work necessary to learn. Perhaps I should have more faith in others

Ok, I asked him and haven't heard back. How long does it usually take for him to get back to someone?

He will get back to you when you are prepared. He is Eternal and has infinite patience. You and me, not so much.

If you want answers you get them on His terms.

"Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

"But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

"But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong" (D&C 9:7-9)
​

There are other conditions:

" Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

"And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

" And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."(Moroni 10:3-5)​

So think it out
Ask with sincerity
In the name of Christ

"And now behold, I say unto you, my brethren, if ye have experienced a change of heart, and if ye have felt to sing the song of redeeming love, I would ask, can ye feel so now?

"Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? That your garments have been cleansed and made white through the blood of Christ, who will come to redeem his people from their sins?

" Behold, are ye stripped of pride? I say unto you, if ye are not ye are not prepared to meet God. Behold ye must prepare quickly; for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand, and such an one hath not eternal life.

" Behold, I say, is there one among you who is not stripped of envy? I say unto you that such an one is not prepared; and I would that he should prepare quickly, for the hour is close at hand, and he knoweth not when the time shall come; for such an one is not found guiltless.

"And again I say unto you, is there one among you that doth make a mock of his brother, or that heapeth upon him persecutions?

" Wo unto such an one, for he is not prepared, and the time is at hand that he must repent or he cannot be saved!

"Yea, even wo unto all ye workers of iniquity; repent, repent, for the Lord God hath spoken it!

"Behold, he sendeth an invitation unto all men, for the arms of mercy are extended towards them, and he saith: Repent, and I will receive you." (Alma 5:26-33)
​

Strip yourself of your pride
Strip yourself of your envy
Don't mock your brothers.

Or else you aren't prepared to know God.

If you really want to know your Father in Heaven, seek Him the way He invites us to.

The religious books of fiction invite us to self-delude, god doesn't say anything. Ever.

He does if you listen.

You choose not to and hear nothing.

Hardly a surprise

I'm listening all right, He just either isn't there or doesn't care.

It makes no sense that a caring god would make it so hard for him to known by everyone.

And anyways, the book of Mormon makes no sense at all. So it couldn't possibly have been from a god.

 

[Crixus]

I have noticed that in several discussions I have with Christians, the point of contention seems to be in attempting to separate the Bible into two parts - the part that must be accepted as accurate (The New Testament), and the part that doesn't (The Old Testament).

So, I have a question. The creation Truth Foundation, in their statement of faith, claims, “The unique divine inspiration of all the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments as originally given, so that they are infallibly and uniquely authoritative and free from error of any sort, in all matters with which they deal, scientific and historical as well as moral and theological.”

I would ask the Christians on this forum if they agree with that statement, bearing in mind:

First, they make no distinction between the Old, and the New Testament, and
Second, paying particular attention to the highlighted portion.

It’s because there is no distinction betwixt the two. It even says so in the New Testament. The only distinction is that one was first and one wasn’t. I find it odd that an athiest would have to use a Christian Bible to preach from.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm listening all right, He just either isn't there or doesn't care.

What do you expect to hear?

 

[Mudda]

I'm listening all right, He just either isn't there or doesn't care.

What do you expect to hear?

Some sign or something to show me that he's actually real. Seems like not too much to ask.

 

[Meriweather]

Some sign or something to show me that he's actually real. Seems like not too much to ask.

Haven't there already been signs down through the ages? People today have had experiences of God. It appears you have no belief, or are not satisfied, with any of these. Specifically, what is it you want or are looking for?

 

[Mudda]

Some sign or something to show me that he's actually real. Seems like not too much to ask.

Haven't there already been signs down through the ages? People today have had experiences of God. It appears you have no belief, or are not satisfied, with any of these. Specifically, what is it you want or are looking for?

Something where all scientists go "yes, it's been proven".

What signs are you referring to?

 

[Meriweather]

Something where all scientists go "yes, it's been proven"

You want all scientists to show you proof. If there should be one hold-out, that still won't be good enough?

 

[Mudda]

Something where all scientists go "yes, it's been proven"

You want all scientists to show you proof. If there should be one hold-out, that still won't be good enough?

No, if the larger scientific community agrees that's enough. But a real scientist will agree because he will be able to repeat whatever experiment... was used to confirm god.

 

[Meriweather]

No, if the larger scientific community agrees that's enough. But a real scientist will agree because he will be able to repeat whatever experiment... was used to confirm god.

Are you aware that scientists explore the physical world? Would it be reasonable to tell an oceanographer that unless he can show a shark living in the desert, people will not believe in sharks? Even if the oceanographer explained to people that a living shark's habitat is a salt water ocean?

It has been explained time after time that God is a spiritual being who has no physical attributes. Yet, just as the person who won't believe in living sharks unless one can be found in a desert (all other signs of a living shark are trickery), you won't believe in God unless His presence can be shown by physical means.

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be more accurate for you to say, "I don't want to believe in God, so I will set up impossible scenarios so I don't have to believe. I tried! After all, I looked for a living shark in the desert.

 

[Mudda]

No, if the larger scientific community agrees that's enough. But a real scientist will agree because he will be able to repeat whatever experiment... was used to confirm god.

Are you aware that scientists explore the physical world? Would it be reasonable to tell an oceanographer that unless he can show a shark living in the desert, people will not believe in sharks? Even if the oceanographer explained to people that a living shark's habitat is a salt water ocean?

It has been explained time after time that God is a spiritual being who has no physical attributes. Yet, just as the person who won't believe in living sharks unless one can be found in a desert (all other signs of a living shark are trickery), you won't believe in God unless His presence can be shown by physical means.

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be more accurate for you to say, "I don't want to believe in God, so I will set up impossible scenarios so I don't have to believe. I tried! After all, I looked for a living shark in the desert.

So you're saying that it's stupid to think that god will ever prove itself, or that we'll get some kind of real proof that it exists?

And if scientists can't do anything to find god for real, who can?

 

[Meriweather]

So you're saying that it's stupid to think that god will ever prove itself, or that we'll get some kind of real proof that it exists?

And if scientists can't do anything to find god for real, who can?

I am saying that God is spirit. Some seem want God to have skin so that science (which deals solely with physical matter) can prove it to everyone. If you wish to explore what is spirit, then go by the way of the spirit--i.e., that is, start outside the physical realm.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Bible is not the inerrant word of God.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Funny how the only way you can stay relaxed, and comfortable is by not honestly answering the question in the OP. And I'm not tied into anything. I found what I was seeking. Reason, and logic.

I’ll hop in. Considering we’re talking about people who had no concept that the sun was just a star, and the stars were just suns really really far away, that the earth was round, that disease was cause by tiny life, no concept of matter, energy, atoms, elements, the language/vocabulary to even describe this stuff, and thousands of other things we take for granted today...does it not raise eyebrows for you how close they got the creation story (especially compared to any other creation story out there)? There was a great void and emptiness, then boom, then god gave the heavens and earth shape, then the earth formed land and sea, then god created life in the sea, then the animals of the land, then finally humans...At the very least you have to be impressed with how close this spoken word, passed down for generations and finally into text, came to what we with all our knowledge know. This is people who thought the earth was flat and the sun and moon spinned around them. I mean if you explained how the universe came into existence to a 5 year old, and they went and explained it to other 5 year olds, it just might sound something like that

Yeah, except it wasn't. First, you seem to forget that Genesis isn't as clear on that order as you present. You see, in chapter 1 of Genesis, it does appear to be in the correct evolutionary order. But, then, in chapter 2, the writer of Genesis changed their mind, and insisted that Man was created first, then all of the other animals. Also, there seems to be a little trouble with the physics even in Genesis, Chapter 1, You see, God, somehow, apparently created light, before creating the sun, and stars, even though light is generated by the sun, and stars. You want to pretend that Genesis perfectly aligns with our scientific knowledge of the universe. Except it really doesn't.

The source of light is God. He gives the sun light

Amazing how you guys literally fulfill scriptures in your efforts to reject them

Oh please....someone could pinch off a turd, and you could find a way to make it "fulfill scripture".

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Some sign or something to show me that he's actually real. Seems like not too much to ask.

Haven't there already been signs down through the ages? People today have had experiences of God. It appears you have no belief, or are not satisfied, with any of these. Specifically, what is it you want or are looking for?

"Haven't there already been signs down through the ages? People today have had experiences of God"

By what insane standard is that evidence or sign of the existence of god? It isn't, anynore than the many people who have heard their houseplants talk to them is evidence that houseplants talk.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That antiGodists don't understand is nothing new.

The level of their ugliness has grown.

Yet they do not have the language, logic, or symbols to disprove the existence of deity.

Tough that.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That antiGodists don't understand is nothing new.

The level of their ugliness has grown.

Yet the do not have the language, logic, or symbols to disprove the existence of deity.

Tough that.

Who would ever need to do such a thing? Do you feel compelled to disprove the existence of unicorns or leprechauns?

 

[JakeStarkey]

That antiGodists don't understand is nothing new.

The level of their ugliness has grown.

Yet the do not have the language, logic, or symbols to disprove the existence of deity.

Tough that.

Who would ever need to do such a thing? Do you feel compelled to disprove the existence of unicorns or leprechauns?

You simply believe in faith that deity does not exist, which is fine.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That antiGodists don't understand is nothing new.

The level of their ugliness has grown.

Yet the do not have the language, logic, or symbols to disprove the existence of deity.

Tough that.

Who would ever need to do such a thing? Do you feel compelled to disprove the existence of unicorns or leprechauns?

You simply believe in faith that deity does not exist, which is fine.

That's 100% incorrect. I am not 100% certain there are no gods. I know you are guessing, but your guess was wrong.

Now, living under the premise that there is no need to pay any attention to the idea of the existence of gods is not faith, anymore than is trusting that your new car will start tomorrow morning. It's simple a determination, based on evidence at hand.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That antiGodists don't understand is nothing new.

The level of their ugliness has grown.

Yet the do not have the language, logic, or symbols to disprove the existence of deity.

Tough that.

Who would ever need to do such a thing? Do you feel compelled to disprove the existence of unicorns or leprechauns?

You simply believe in faith that deity does not exist, which is fine.

That's 100% incorrect. I am not 100% certain there are no gods. I know you are guessing, but your guess was wrong. Now, living under the premise that there is no need to pay any attention to the idea of the existence of gods is not faith, anymore than is trusting that your new car will start tomorrow morning. It's simple a determination, based on evidence at hand.

I do not care whether you believe or not. But if you don't believe, then you have no logic, language, or symbols to back you up. That is faith.