Is the Russian army holding back ??

[Quasar44]

Is the Russian military showing restraint or are they just garbage ?

Holding back to not destroy their territory


I know the American woke trash army stinks but Russia ??

 

[Synthaholic]

I know the American woke trash army stinks

Fuck you.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I've wondered that myself.
I've always thought Russia had a pretty good military but after watching then in the Ukraine I'm not so sure.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Is the Russian military showing restraint or are they just garbage ?

Holding back to not destroy their territory


I know the American woke trash army stinks but Russia ??

you wouldnt last in the military...you wouldnt make it through boot camp....

 

[SavannahMann]

Is the Russian military showing restraint or are they just garbage ?

Holding back to not destroy their territory


I know the American woke trash army stinks but Russia ??

There are a number of videos available on YouTube. There are probably a thousand scholarly articles. Probably twice that many from armchair strategists. But I’m going to see if I can explain the problem as a former American Soldier.

First. The Soviet Army never ceased to exist. The foundational beliefs were never changed in the senior officers. That means that the Russian still believe everything is a science. Marxism Leninism wasn’t a political theory. It was a science.

How does this affect the Russians? If you are given a hundred men to secure an objective. Somewhere back in the rear a mathematician type has decided that you have more than sufficient strength to achieve your target goals. Starting to see the problem?

You attack and the enemy is stronger than advertised and your attack fails. You report that the enemy strength is greater than estimated.

Now here is the problem. The American Army you hear for being Woke. Whatever that is, reports truth. The Russian Army can’t. They’ve been lying to their bosses for generations. Officers who don’t lie are punished.

If you are given an assignment. Insure your troops are all qualified marksmen with their rifles. You go to the range and watch as the troops spray the bullets all over the horizon.

You can report that the troops, if they were shooting at shit couldn’t get a whiff. If you do it isn’t a failure of the army. It isn’t a failure of basic training for not insuring the troops could shoot. It isn’t a failure of the previous commander. It is your failure. So you do the smart thing. You report that all of them are expert marksmen and ready for combat at a moments notice.

If you run a supply depot. You arrive and are told that you are required to have enough material available for 90 days of sustained battle. You look at the warehouses and see half empty shelves next to totally empty shelves. You lie and report that everything is ready.

If you produce munitions. You are required to be able to make a certain number every month. You report it is made and shipped. It might be. But chances are the stuff at the end of the month to meet quota is crap that just won’t work and you don’t care. You just need the numbers.

Everyone lies. Everyone is lying to their bosses. The bosses can either report that all is well or they can report that their subordinates are lying. If they report that they are being lied to, that is their failure. So the bosses report the lies to the commanders. Who report it to headquarters. 100% of the 123 infantry division is an expert marksman and ready for battle.

So as a senior commander as you plan for battle. You have to guess. What is the strength of the unit and what is their actual readiness. But if you send in what you know in your heart will actually do it, you are saying you have been lying for years. So you use the math formulas that the military science have developed and send in unprepared or undertrained troops.

If one person tells the truth that one person is punished. The system is never the problem. It is never a majority of people. It is always one or a few who failed. You just want to make sure you aren’t one of the few who get blamed.

The Russian system is a failure because it is based on lies. The troops lie to their lieutenants. The lieutenants enhance the lie to look good for the Captains. The captains add a little to the lie to look good for the colonels. And so on. By the time the commanders of all Russian Forces get the reports their troops are the best trained and best equipped troops in the history of warfare.

 

[Hossfly]

The U.S. isn't holding back.

 

[skye]

The U.S. isn't holding back.


View attachment 783676

Eggsactly!!! ^^^

 

[toobfreak]

Fuck you.

Shall I bend him over and spread his cheeks or do you want him over the arm of the sofa?

 

[toobfreak]

The American Army you hear for being Woke. Whatever that is, reports truth. The Russian Army can’t. They’ve been lying to their bosses for generations. Officers who don’t lie are punished.

If you are given an assignment. Insure your troops are all qualified marksmen with their rifles. You go to the range and watch as the troops spray the bullets all over the horizon.

You can report that the troops, if they were shooting at shit couldn’t get a whiff. If you do it isn’t a failure of the army. It isn’t a failure of basic training for not insuring the troops could shoot. It isn’t a failure of the previous commander. It is your failure. So you do the smart thing. You report that all of them are expert marksmen and ready for combat at a moments notice.

If you run a supply depot. You arrive and are told that you are required to have enough material available for 90 days of sustained battle. You look at the warehouses and see half empty shelves next to totally empty shelves. You lie and report that everything is ready.

If you produce munitions. You are required to be able to make a certain number every month. You report it is made and shipped. It might be. But chances are the stuff at the end of the month to meet quota is crap that just won’t work and you don’t care. You just need the numbers.

Everyone lies. Everyone is lying to their bosses. The bosses can either report that all is well or they can report that their subordinates are lying. If they report that they are being lied to, that is their failure. So the bosses report the lies to the commanders. Who report it to headquarters. 100% of the 123 infantry division is an expert marksman and ready for battle.

So as a senior commander as you plan for battle. You have to guess. What is the strength of the unit and what is their actual readiness. But if you send in what you know in your heart will actually do it, you are saying you have been lying for years. So you use the math formulas that the military science have developed and send in unprepared or undertrained troops.

If one person tells the truth that one person is punished. The system is never the problem. It is never a majority of people. It is always one or a few who failed. You just want to make sure you aren’t one of the few who get blamed.

What you are really describing is how communism works! Worse, what you are describing is becoming more and more how OUR government/media complex works. No one in power anymore can really tell the truth from sheer propaganda.

 

[SavannahMann]

What you are really describing is how communism works! Worse, what you are describing is becoming more and more how OUR government/media complex works. No one in power anymore can really tell the truth from sheer propaganda.

I’m not going to get drawn into the nonsense. I am telling you how the Russian Army has worked, and still works.

And yes, it is on the Communist era model. And that model was really the Czarist model. It is the way Russia always worked. When Russia went to war in 1914 one of the admonitions of Czar Nicholas was to his Army leaders. “Gentlemen. No stealing.”

The Russian Army has always been poorly trained by comparison to Western Armies. In explaining the delay of the Second Front in Europe to Stalin Churchill said. It takes two years to fully train a Soldier. Two years before they can reach their peak performance.

Stalin dismissed this and said it took five minutes.

They were both right. It took two years to train a soldier to think like a soldier. For his reflexes and instincts to really become second nature. Stalin was right. In five minutes of combat the survivors will know just as much. The dead won’t have learned a thing. And there will be a lot more of the dead than Soldiers when it is all over.

Take weapons design that is still in use today. Generally speaking Armies design weapons to use all the technology available for the maximum effectiveness. The AR platform was revolutionary. It used high tech alloys and plastic to make it lighter. It used everything we knew about metallurgy and ballistics as well as real combat to design a weapon.

The AK-47 by comparison is designed for rugged simplicity. It is designed to be used by a peasant army of uneducated soldiers. It can do things the AR can’t. You don’t dare swap out bolts on an AR. Each bolt is matched to the chamber for a fit within tolerances. The AK has interchangeable parts. It is designed to be cheaply made and rough maintained usage.

For the fire selector. One click is Single shot. It goes from safe, to single, to auto or burst in the AR platform. On the AK, the first notch is full auto, the second is single. The reason is that the designers knew in a panic the troops would slam the safety all the way down.

The AR used by the Army has gone through generational improvements. The A-1 corrected the flaws of the straight M-16. The A-2 was an improvement with greater accuracy and reliability. The A-4 improved upon the A2. The M-4 answered the desire for a shorter weapon for increased mobility and maneuverability in urban environments.

The AK is still manufactured pretty much as it was when Kalishnakov designed it. No serious upgrades in the design.

The same rifle manufactured in the 1940’s in Russia are made today. They are passed out like hotcakes to peasant armies around the world. Where the education limits mean advanced weapons would not get the care they need to operate.

The Russians want their troops to follow orders. So draconian discipline insures the troops do what they are told. Officers do the thinking, and the troops are not encouraged to ask questions or understand a thing more than they are required to.

After the fall, a Russian delegation arrived at Fort Bragg. We met the Russian Combat Engineer officer. He refused to believe our soldiers could do all we said they could. Maps and land navigating. Maps are classified documents in the Russian Army. No soldier is taught to read them. Our troops are. Radios are magic boxes that work or not. For our troops they know basic maintenance and upkeep. Vehicles. Mechanics fix them. Our troops work on their own trucks and tanks constantly.

The Russian kept asking us how many were officers in disguise.

We believe in training our troops in everything that might give them slightly better odds.

And the training includes things like NTC. If the Russians ran NTC it would always have the glorious forces of the Russian Federation winning a great victory. Our troops get their asses kicked by the OPFOR regularly. We want hard training because combat is even harder.

I saw a video of a Russian Paratrooper training mission. They jumped at 600 meters. That is about 1,800 feet.

You hang in the air forever at that height. Our training jumps were at 800 feet. That is less than three football fields. Our combat jumps are at 500 feet. You want to get on the ground as soon as you can. If you are slowly descending to the ground people will shoot you. The less time you spend as a slowly falling target the better.

So bad tactical doctrine coupled with barely trained troops and you have a recipe for the disaster you see unfolding in Ukraine.

 

[Synthaholic]

Shall I bend him over and spread his cheeks or do you want him over the arm of the sofa?

We all know that you're an America-hating piece of shit, but please keep on reminding us.

 

[toobfreak]

I’m not going to get drawn into the nonsense. I am telling you how the Russian Army has worked, and still works.

And yes, it is on the Communist era model. And that model was really the Czarist model. It is the way Russia always worked. When Russia went to war in 1914 one of the admonitions of Czar Nicholas was to his Army leaders. “Gentlemen. No stealing.”

The Russian Army has always been poorly trained by comparison to Western Armies. In explaining the delay of the Second Front in Europe to Stalin Churchill said. It takes two years to fully train a Soldier. Two years before they can reach their peak performance.

Stalin dismissed this and said it took five minutes.

They were both right. It took two years to train a soldier to think like a soldier. For his reflexes and instincts to really become second nature. Stalin was right. In five minutes of combat the survivors will know just as much. The dead won’t have learned a thing. And there will be a lot more of the dead than Soldiers when it is all over.

Take weapons design that is still in use today. Generally speaking Armies design weapons to use all the technology available for the maximum effectiveness. The AR platform was revolutionary. It used high tech alloys and plastic to make it lighter. It used everything we knew about metallurgy and ballistics as well as real combat to design a weapon.

The AK-47 by comparison is designed for rugged simplicity. It is designed to be used by a peasant army of uneducated soldiers. It can do things the AR can’t. You don’t dare swap out bolts on an AR. Each bolt is matched to the chamber for a fit within tolerances. The AK has interchangeable parts. It is designed to be cheaply made and rough maintained usage.

For the fire selector. One click is Single shot. It goes from safe, to single, to auto or burst in the AR platform. On the AK, the first notch is full auto, the second is single. The reason is that the designers knew in a panic the troops would slam the safety all the way down.

The AR used by the Army has gone through generational improvements. The A-1 corrected the flaws of the straight M-16. The A-2 was an improvement with greater accuracy and reliability. The A-4 improved upon the A2. The M-4 answered the desire for a shorter weapon for increased mobility and maneuverability in urban environments.

The AK is still manufactured pretty much as it was when Kalishnakov designed it. No serious upgrades in the design.

The same rifle manufactured in the 1940’s in Russia are made today. They are passed out like hotcakes to peasant armies around the world. Where the education limits mean advanced weapons would not get the care they need to operate.

The Russians want their troops to follow orders. So draconian discipline insures the troops do what they are told. Officers do the thinking, and the troops are not encouraged to ask questions or understand a thing more than they are required to.

After the fall, a Russian delegation arrived at Fort Bragg. We met the Russian Combat Engineer officer. He refused to believe our soldiers could do all we said they could. Maps and land navigating. Maps are classified documents in the Russian Army. No soldier is taught to read them. Our troops are. Radios are magic boxes that work or not. For our troops they know basic maintenance and upkeep. Vehicles. Mechanics fix them. Our troops work on their own trucks and tanks constantly.

The Russian kept asking us how many were officers in disguise.

We believe in training our troops in everything that might give them slightly better odds.

And the training includes things like NTC. If the Russians ran NTC it would always have the glorious forces of the Russian Federation winning a great victory. Our troops get their asses kicked by the OPFOR regularly. We want hard training because combat is even harder.

I saw a video of a Russian Paratrooper training mission. They jumped at 600 meters. That is about 1,800 feet.

You hang in the air forever at that height. Our training jumps were at 800 feet. That is less than three football fields. Our combat jumps are at 500 feet. You want to get on the ground as soon as you can. If you are slowly descending to the ground people will shoot you. The less time you spend as a slowly falling target the better.

So bad tactical doctrine coupled with barely trained troops and you have a recipe for the disaster you see unfolding in Ukraine.

A very good read, I enjoyed that. Most interesting was the tight control over skills and map reading! Of course, this all comes back to the Soviet mentality of mistrust, still, despite that and all we have given to Ukraine that Ukraine is not winning. I think Russia is actually slowly getting the better of them if by attrition. If Ukraine loses now, how much more embarrassing for us.

 

[toobfreak]

We all know that you're an America-hating piece of shit, but please keep on reminding us.

America, no, whatever degenerate crap YOU stand for, yes.

 

[SavannahMann]

A very good read, I enjoyed that. Most interesting was the tight control over skills and map reading! Of course, this all comes back to the Soviet mentality of mistrust, still, despite that and all we have given to Ukraine that Ukraine is not winning. I think Russia is actually slowly getting the better of them if by attrition. If Ukraine loses now, how much more embarrassing for us.

As the correlation of forces was examined during the Cold War. We realized we could never afford to match the Warsaw Pact man for man, tank for tank. We developed a doctrine of maximum effectiveness.

The A-10 was a product of this ideal. A plane that was designed from the first concept to kill tanks.

We had quality. They had quantity. But as was said at the time. Quantity has a quality all its own.

One good Platoon trained to Western Standards and equipped that way can probably hold off one company. But they can’t hold out indefinitely. And they can’t hold out against much larger forces for long.

The Russians continue to use mass attack. Massive amounts of troops and equipment against the objective.

Quantity.

Compare the early days of the Russian Attack with the attacks of the Americans into Iraq. Either war. It was a spearhead attack. Much speed and a drive on strategic objectives. Towns and road junctures. The desire to cut off supplies and communications of enemy units.

The Russians didn’t. It was a wide attack across a broad front. They even attacked and captured Chernobyl. And if there was ever an objective you didn’t want to capture, an irradiated wasteland is right at the top of the list.

It was a classic Soviet attack. Overwhelm the enemy with massive numbers and massed artillery. During World War II the Germans used to say the Political Officers of the Russian Army would count German machine guns and then calculate how many rounds could be fired per minute and how many casualties the Russians would suffer. They would then put more Russians on the line than the Germans could possibly kill and launch the attack.

The Russians did the same with Ukraine. Scientific mathematic calculations. Imagine Dungeons and Dragons with real lives. If your attack is more powerful than their defense you will win.

The Russians underestimated the effect the changes to the Ukrainian army would have. The Ukrainians had adapted to Western Military Strategy and Tactics. Heavy emphasis on technology and precision. Don’t dump Artillery on a large swath a land. Hit the area the enemy is actually in. Use man portable missiles to disrupt and delay enemy attacks.

Imagine it this way. You are fighting a guy. When armed with a rifle at close range you have to hit the specific point to kill him. You need accuracy in your fire. Now compare it to a shotgun. Precision is not as big of an issue. You are shooting an area. But the results are not as good. If one pellet hits the guy chances are he isn’t stopped. But you probably have a better chance of hitting him.

The Russians lost a lot of tanks early on to those precise and effective missiles. But the Russians have a lot of tanks.

Look at what has happened. The Russians had to abandon the masses attack and the war has devolved to modernized Trench Warfare from World War One.

The Russians still have Quantity on their side. That advantage means that they have a fifty to one advantage in troops. And they are losing ten or fifteen to one in combat. At that exchange rate the Ukrainians will lose. Yes, the Ukrainians are exacting a heavy toll but the Russians can and are absorbing that toll.

Read some of my other posts. I’ve said many times I still expect Russia to win. But what I want is for Russia to look at the rest of Europe and shudder in fear. I want them to realize their dreams of conquest are not going to happen. I want them to look at the costs of this invasion and weep. I want them telling stories to their grandchildren about how awful the war was.

That is why they are in Ukraine now. The horror didn’t happen in Georgia. It didn’t happen in Azerbaijan. All of the nations put under the Russian boot since the collapse of the Soviet Union. All of them fell pretty quickly to the old Russian Strategy.

Russia felt pretty good about themselves. They were a world power again. They were standing tall and seeing themselves as a major military force. The stain of Afghanistan had been wiped away.

Russia can’t progress without throwing out their old way of doing things. They can’t live by lies. Wanting something to be true doesn’t cut it. If they want a first rate military they have to get rid of the lies. But if they get rid of the lies, they have to teach people truth and spend money they don’t have on training and education. To do that will require a societal change, and that will be the ultimate downfall of the Russian Thugs. The holdouts of the old Soviet system.

 

[ESay]

Read some of my other posts. I’ve said many times I still expect Russia to win. But what I want is for Russia to look at the rest of Europe and shudder in fear. I want them to realize their dreams of conquest are not going to happen. I want them to look at the costs of this invasion and weep. I want them telling stories to their grandchildren about how awful the war was

Not sure what you mean by a 'win' in this context, but it will be too sad if that really happens.

 

[SavannahMann]

Not sure what you mean by a 'win' in this context, but it will be too sad if that really happens.

By win I mean conquering Ukraine.

And my desire for the future is ruination of Russia from it.

 

[ESay]

By win I mean conquering Ukraine.

And my desire for the future is ruination of Russia from it.

Interesting, and how will you achieve this ruination?

 

[Litwin]

garbage

 

[Litwin]

 

[SavannahMann]

Interesting, and how will you achieve this ruination?

It’s already well on the way. Let’s start with the one nobody thinks about. Airlines.

Turbulence batters Russia’s air sector

Russia’s aviation industry was hit hard by sanctions. Moscow’s officials want to play that down.

www.politico.eu

The planes can’t fly internationally. They defaulted on ten billion in loans. What that means is even if Russia issued a Mea Culpa right now those leasing companies would hang up as soon as the Russian Airlines called to arrange a new deal.

So no new modern planes for what? A generation or two?

The planes are not getting regular service. That means they are getting more and more dangerous to fly. The places they can fly to are going to start saying Nyet after a few fall out of the sky.

The work of decades to build up Russian airlines was undone in a year. Decades shot to hell.

Europe made it through the first winter with restricted Russian Oil and gas. That means they’ll have the new sources coming online. That means Russian Oil will be even more restricted and less profitable. Russian threats to turn off the tap will have less of an impact going forward.

What Europe showed the world about renewable energy

It’s possible to do hard things for the climate — and the US isn’t that far behind.

www.vox.com

Russia has never been self sufficient. And as time goes by their workarounds will become even more extreme.

They have to pay for the munitions they are expending while the world finances the munitions being fired back. Nobody is helping them afford the war. For now the Russian Economy is being held up by strict government control but that can’t last forever. Russia is liable to be begging for food this winter.

Russia having difficulty making new weapons, but might have enough older ones, report says | CNN

Battlefield losses and Western sanctions have left the Russian military in a state of decline, but Moscow will still have enough firepower to extend the war in Ukraine, according to a new independent analysis.

amp.cnn.com

Earlier I explained about the ratio. As the weapons and munitions become even more scarce the effect will be a greater death ratio of Russian troops. More young men dead mean more widows and women who will not be able to find husbands. That means lower population in the future. Fewer people does that.

It also erodes Russian morale at home. And then more money and people have to be spent keeping the people at home in line.

It is a downward spiral. And the worse it gets the worse it is going to get. As I said above. Decades of work has already been destroyed. And it is only going to get worse.