Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?

[Toddsterpatriot]

You want to use them as a model for the U.S.?

No. I want you to answer the question.

What they do does not dictate what we do. We still do business with China.

If we removed all trade sanctions, would the Cuban government allow a Cuban citizen to freely trade with the US?

 

[pknopp]

You want to use them as a model for the U.S.?

No. I want you to answer the question.

What they do does not dictate what we do. We still do business with China.

If we removed all trade sanctions, would the Cuban government allow a Cuban citizen to freely trade with the US?

I have no idea. I have no control or say over what they do.

 

[surada]

People suffered for 60 years but you felt good.

I don't feel good that the Cuban people have suffered under Communism for 60 years.

But you are fine with our sanctions that contributed to their suffering and accomplished nothing.

What diplomatic efforts has Cuba made to improve relations since the whole, being our enemy thing?

Not my issue. People are. Politics sucks.

Cuba is the small nation that choose to be the enemy of the superpower that lived right next door. Not a good plan.

If you care about people, then what Cuba does diplomatically to repair that damage, is important.


Have they stopped all the rhetoric about how America is evul, for example?

I can't say that I see them saying much of anything but as others have noted, China and other countries will step in and fulfill what they need.

We can continue to pretend we are doing something.

This is how things work. We put sanctions on China and other countries stepped in to fill their needs. If we prefer to spin our wheels, that's on you (and others) I guess.

Ok. Then they don't need access to the world's largest market, which just happens to be right next door.


Have a good time, and stop bothering me kid.

They don't so much now. We ceded that to others because.........???

So we would feel better?

Your pretense of not knowing about the Cold War, is .... dismissed.


Cuba made a bad call. They choose to be our enemy. When they are right next door. Their side lost the Cold War and they have done nothing to repair relations.

Ball is in their court.

They want to be China's bitch? lol, sure, the Chinese are well known for being gentle masters.

Cuba said all kinds of things 60 years ago. Irrelevant today.

Oh? You saying that don't talk the line of jive anymore?

I see very little.

So, you don't know? Neither do I. I assume they still talk the shit, because why would they not?

It's not like we are going to DO anything about it. So, why not talk tough and maybe fool someone here and there into thinking they are relevant, and maybe get some loving from other anti-American assholes in the world, of which there are many, even inside the US.

Supporting the idea that any country that doesn't bend to our every whim is our enemy is the anti-american position.

So true, yet so many Americans don’t get that.

Cuba did a little more than, "not bend to our every whim".

And hey, I'm open to hearing what they are doing to mend relations. After all, Cold War is over.

Yeah it’s up to little Cuba to fix the relationship, after the US government’s 60 year attack on it.

Agreed. We don't need them, they need US. They want better relations, I'm open to what they have to say.

Perfect attitude for what pretends to be a Christian nation.

The problem is that all have to be Christian. And those who are not play games to guilt people. Guilting them to the abyss.

All do not. We pretend we are a Christian nation. For far too many, politics is their religion.

Funny, I've had long, long drag out arguments with leftards that consider the idea that we " are a Christian Nation" to be pure evulness.


Now a lefty wants to use that to get soft treatment for a commie hellhole.

View attachment 513373

Not being able to address what I say you have to try and paint me in your safe little box.

Just keeping it real.

Do you believe that we are a Christian Nation and that we SHOULD base our national policies on our Christian heritage and ideals?

You know, since you brought it up.

No we are not but I believe we should live more up to the principles people pretend they have

Sorry, it's either or. If you want to throw the "Christian nation" shit in our faces, then you have to agree that we are a Christian Nation.


Otherwise, you are just a smarmy bastard playing asshole games.


Me? I do believe that we are a Christian Nation, adn that we should base our policies on our Christian Heritage and ideals.

We say we are BUT we are not. Your statements prove that out.

I think your use of "We" is kind of dishonest here. You are trying to have it both ways, just so you can talk some shit on other people.

YOU don't believe we are a Christian Nation. So, save the "we" talk.

If you want to make an argument about why you think we should have better relations with Cuba, maybe instead of pretending to be part of something YOU ARE NOT,

you should just be honest about YOUR REASONS for it.


OR, is your real motive here, just to talk shit on Christians? Are you just using the suffering of the Cubans as gist for your smear campaign?

You understand my argument. We are not a Christian nation because we do not act like one. I wish we would act more like one.

Do you? Would you support a ban on Abortion? Would you support laws that denied most divorces? Would you support a law that banned alcohol consumption? Or banned gambling?

Or are you just talking bullshit, to justify your little games?

You don't understand anything outside of the Evangelical viewpoint of the Bible.

So, that's a no to all of it. YOur talk of wanting a more "Christian" nation, or at least "acting like it" was just b.s.


What is your real reason for wanting better relations with Cuba?

Christians can have alcohol. Christians can place a bet. You read and are led from the wrong places.

"Evangelicals" loved Trump and he did all of those things............

What is your real reason for wanting better relations with Cuba?

Do you believe that all people are equal and equally deserving of consideration, whether they are Americans or Cubans?

I care less what our relations with Cuba are. I want us to stop doing things that do nothing other than harm people.

helping get rid of an oppressive regime to free the people of cuba will bring them freedom which isn’t harm, just the opposite

We can't do squat. It's been pointed out over and over that our actions have made zero difference.

seems to be having an impact now. have you not been watching the news? we can help more by supporting those freedom fighters…but we got dems in charge who support the Socialist regime…so you are right, nothing will likely happen but these freedom fighters will likely be imprisoned or executed by the leftist regime

People are not protesting over anything we have done. IMO they might have protested far earlier if we had minded our own business.

They voted to move away from Communism towards socalism in 2019.

https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Cuba_2019.pdf?lang=en

 

[Soupnazi630]

Sure, Cuba had economic problems with both regimes, but now they are not free to talk about it and the world will not get told about it.

Your claims are all based on American hate for people of all other countries, as you've been taught from the cradle to do.

Che and other revolutionaries weren't murderers, they were engaged in fighting for Cuba's freedom from the US backed Batista regime and it's corruption.

You have no ambition to stop your hating of the Cuban people and that's now become nothing more than your own personal issue.

The world is moving on under the cover of other super powers' nuclear umbrellas.

Express your hate! That's the purpose on this forum.

Che was a mass murderer as was Castro.

They did not begin killing people until after Batista was deposed. They did so with no due process and for no other reason to consolidate power.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?​

In a word YES!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics. With their progressive communist system, Cubans don't know 'real' poverty.

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

Americans can just stew in their juices and hate from 90 miles away now!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics.

Really? What was their standard of living in 1958? In 2018?

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

China is pretty awesome! So what's Cuba's GDP per person now? China levels? US levels? Higher?

Cuba's standard of living is better than other banana republics because of their communist system. Their social program successes put an entirely different light on poverty.

That was able to happen even as America was completely intent on destroying Cuba.

Now China is there to lift US pressure off of Cuba and things can only get better.

In fact, when I was in Cuba 3 years ago, the growing prosperity was quite noticable.

But really, aside from that which I say being debated here, why do Americans still hate Cuba and their people?

They're not ever going to be a threat to America.
Even China is not a communist threat to America if America can finally change it's greedy capitalist system to one of 'socially' responsible capitalism that co-operates with the rest of the world's democracies.

Is the next country that falls victim to US occupation going to be Haiti? Will America act to uphold that country's system to protect it from communism?

If America doesn't deliver real aid to Haiti, China most likely will!

You are quite wrong.

Cuban poverty increased nationwide under Castro and communism. They were actually closer tot he USa in terms of no poverty before castro.

Like all communist revolutions they faieled exc ept at mass murder and enforced slavery and destitution.

prior to castro, cuba had a sugar dominated economy with racial slavery.
When castro took over, Fulgencio Batista and friends ran off with millions of pesos. Later, when the soviet bloc disintegrated, cuba lost 85 percent of trade.

As bad as cuba might have it, they still do well in HDI (human development index) due to healthcare and education. Cuba does well with their supply of medical staff and medical training.

Wrong.

They had no slavery under Batista racial or otherwise.

The Batista regime was corrupt but less so than any communist government. The communists imposed mass poverty slavery and destitution from day one.

The measurements of CUbas health care and education comes the cuban communist regime with NO independant verification of any kind. Making it worthless.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Sure, Cuba had economic problems with both regimes, but now they are not free to talk about it and the world will not get told about it.

Your claims are all based on American hate for people of all other countries, as you've been taught from the cradle to do.

Che and other revolutionaries weren't murderers, they were engaged in fighting for Cuba's freedom from the US backed Batista regime and it's corruption.

You have no ambition to stop your hating of the Cuban people and that's now become nothing more than your own personal issue.

The world is moving on under the cover of other super powers' nuclear umbrellas.

Express your hate! That's the purpose on this forum.

Hate? Here is what Che said about hate

"Crazy with fury I will stain my rifle red while slaughtering any enemy that falls in my hands! My nostrils dilate while savoring the acrid odor of gunpowder and blood. With the deaths of my enemies I prepare my being for the sacred fight and join the triumphant proletariat with a bestial howl!"
"Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is what our soldiers must become …" ché Guevara

You worship a racist cold blooded murderer.

Get bent

Everything Che said in that example was morally justified on behalf of Cuba's revolution and the fight against America and it's support of the evil Batista regime.

Can Americans be as justified when they said basically the same against the people of Iraq or Vietnam?

Cuba's revolution was the people's moral cause that justified any and all measures taken against their enemy. A bloody rifle can be said to be the poor revolutionary's personal WMD.

Compare their rifles to America's cluster bombs from 30,000 feet!

Your debating points are more than welcome!

CUbas revolution was not a moral just cause nor in the name of the people.

TZorturing and murdering people as CHe and Castro did is not morally justified by involing the people

 

[struth]

People suffered for 60 years but you felt good.

I don't feel good that the Cuban people have suffered under Communism for 60 years.

But you are fine with our sanctions that contributed to their suffering and accomplished nothing.

What diplomatic efforts has Cuba made to improve relations since the whole, being our enemy thing?

Not my issue. People are. Politics sucks.

Cuba is the small nation that choose to be the enemy of the superpower that lived right next door. Not a good plan.

If you care about people, then what Cuba does diplomatically to repair that damage, is important.


Have they stopped all the rhetoric about how America is evul, for example?

I can't say that I see them saying much of anything but as others have noted, China and other countries will step in and fulfill what they need.

We can continue to pretend we are doing something.

This is how things work. We put sanctions on China and other countries stepped in to fill their needs. If we prefer to spin our wheels, that's on you (and others) I guess.

Ok. Then they don't need access to the world's largest market, which just happens to be right next door.


Have a good time, and stop bothering me kid.

They don't so much now. We ceded that to others because.........???

So we would feel better?

Your pretense of not knowing about the Cold War, is .... dismissed.


Cuba made a bad call. They choose to be our enemy. When they are right next door. Their side lost the Cold War and they have done nothing to repair relations.

Ball is in their court.

They want to be China's bitch? lol, sure, the Chinese are well known for being gentle masters.

Cuba said all kinds of things 60 years ago. Irrelevant today.

Oh? You saying that don't talk the line of jive anymore?

I see very little.

So, you don't know? Neither do I. I assume they still talk the shit, because why would they not?

It's not like we are going to DO anything about it. So, why not talk tough and maybe fool someone here and there into thinking they are relevant, and maybe get some loving from other anti-American assholes in the world, of which there are many, even inside the US.

Supporting the idea that any country that doesn't bend to our every whim is our enemy is the anti-american position.

So true, yet so many Americans don’t get that.

Cuba did a little more than, "not bend to our every whim".

And hey, I'm open to hearing what they are doing to mend relations. After all, Cold War is over.

Yeah it’s up to little Cuba to fix the relationship, after the US government’s 60 year attack on it.

Agreed. We don't need them, they need US. They want better relations, I'm open to what they have to say.

Perfect attitude for what pretends to be a Christian nation.

The problem is that all have to be Christian. And those who are not play games to guilt people. Guilting them to the abyss.

All do not. We pretend we are a Christian nation. For far too many, politics is their religion.

Funny, I've had long, long drag out arguments with leftards that consider the idea that we " are a Christian Nation" to be pure evulness.


Now a lefty wants to use that to get soft treatment for a commie hellhole.

View attachment 513373

Not being able to address what I say you have to try and paint me in your safe little box.

Just keeping it real.

Do you believe that we are a Christian Nation and that we SHOULD base our national policies on our Christian heritage and ideals?

You know, since you brought it up.

No we are not but I believe we should live more up to the principles people pretend they have

Sorry, it's either or. If you want to throw the "Christian nation" shit in our faces, then you have to agree that we are a Christian Nation.


Otherwise, you are just a smarmy bastard playing asshole games.


Me? I do believe that we are a Christian Nation, adn that we should base our policies on our Christian Heritage and ideals.

We say we are BUT we are not. Your statements prove that out.

I think your use of "We" is kind of dishonest here. You are trying to have it both ways, just so you can talk some shit on other people.

YOU don't believe we are a Christian Nation. So, save the "we" talk.

If you want to make an argument about why you think we should have better relations with Cuba, maybe instead of pretending to be part of something YOU ARE NOT,

you should just be honest about YOUR REASONS for it.


OR, is your real motive here, just to talk shit on Christians? Are you just using the suffering of the Cubans as gist for your smear campaign?

You understand my argument. We are not a Christian nation because we do not act like one. I wish we would act more like one.

Do you? Would you support a ban on Abortion? Would you support laws that denied most divorces? Would you support a law that banned alcohol consumption? Or banned gambling?

Or are you just talking bullshit, to justify your little games?

You don't understand anything outside of the Evangelical viewpoint of the Bible.

So, that's a no to all of it. YOur talk of wanting a more "Christian" nation, or at least "acting like it" was just b.s.


What is your real reason for wanting better relations with Cuba?

Christians can have alcohol. Christians can place a bet. You read and are led from the wrong places.

"Evangelicals" loved Trump and he did all of those things............

What is your real reason for wanting better relations with Cuba?

Do you believe that all people are equal and equally deserving of consideration, whether they are Americans or Cubans?

I care less what our relations with Cuba are. I want us to stop doing things that do nothing other than harm people.

helping get rid of an oppressive regime to free the people of cuba will bring them freedom which isn’t harm, just the opposite

We can't do squat. It's been pointed out over and over that our actions have made zero difference.

seems to be having an impact now. have you not been watching the news? we can help more by supporting those freedom fighters…but we got dems in charge who support the Socialist regime…so you are right, nothing will likely happen but these freedom fighters will likely be imprisoned or executed by the leftist regime

People are not protesting over anything we have done. IMO they might have protested far earlier if we had minded our own business.

They voted to move away from Communism towards socalism in 2019.

https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Cuba_2019.pdf?lang=en

haha they didn’t vote to move away from Communism! they weren’t Communist! do you have any clue what Communism is?

they are and have been socialist

 

[surada]

Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?​

In a word YES!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics. With their progressive communist system, Cubans don't know 'real' poverty.

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

Americans can just stew in their juices and hate from 90 miles away now!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics.

Really? What was their standard of living in 1958? In 2018?

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

China is pretty awesome! So what's Cuba's GDP per person now? China levels? US levels? Higher?

Cuba's standard of living is better than other banana republics because of their communist system. Their social program successes put an entirely different light on poverty.

That was able to happen even as America was completely intent on destroying Cuba.

Now China is there to lift US pressure off of Cuba and things can only get better.

In fact, when I was in Cuba 3 years ago, the growing prosperity was quite noticable.

But really, aside from that which I say being debated here, why do Americans still hate Cuba and their people?

They're not ever going to be a threat to America.
Even China is not a communist threat to America if America can finally change it's greedy capitalist system to one of 'socially' responsible capitalism that co-operates with the rest of the world's democracies.

Is the next country that falls victim to US occupation going to be Haiti? Will America act to uphold that country's system to protect it from communism?

If America doesn't deliver real aid to Haiti, China most likely will!

You are quite wrong.

Cuban poverty increased nationwide under Castro and communism. They were actually closer tot he USa in terms of no poverty before castro.

Like all communist revolutions they faieled exc ept at mass murder and enforced slavery and destitution.

prior to castro, cuba had a sugar dominated economy with racial slavery.
When castro took over, Fulgencio Batista and friends ran off with millions of pesos. Later, when the soviet bloc disintegrated, cuba lost 85 percent of trade.

As bad as cuba might have it, they still do well in HDI (human development index) due to healthcare and education. Cuba does well with their supply of medical staff and medical training.

Wrong.

They had no slavery under Batista racial or otherwise.

The Batista regime was corrupt but less so than any communist government. The communists imposed mass poverty slavery and destitution from day one.

The measurements of CUbas health care and education comes the cuban communist regime with NO independant verification of any kind. Making it worthless.

Havana was called the Brothel of the Western Hemisphere under Batista.

There is plenty of universal evaluation of Cuban doctors. They work all over the world and are considered excellent.. the BEST.

 

[surada]

People suffered for 60 years but you felt good.

I don't feel good that the Cuban people have suffered under Communism for 60 years.

But you are fine with our sanctions that contributed to their suffering and accomplished nothing.

What diplomatic efforts has Cuba made to improve relations since the whole, being our enemy thing?

Not my issue. People are. Politics sucks.

Cuba is the small nation that choose to be the enemy of the superpower that lived right next door. Not a good plan.

If you care about people, then what Cuba does diplomatically to repair that damage, is important.


Have they stopped all the rhetoric about how America is evul, for example?

I can't say that I see them saying much of anything but as others have noted, China and other countries will step in and fulfill what they need.

We can continue to pretend we are doing something.

This is how things work. We put sanctions on China and other countries stepped in to fill their needs. If we prefer to spin our wheels, that's on you (and others) I guess.

Ok. Then they don't need access to the world's largest market, which just happens to be right next door.


Have a good time, and stop bothering me kid.

They don't so much now. We ceded that to others because.........???

So we would feel better?

Your pretense of not knowing about the Cold War, is .... dismissed.


Cuba made a bad call. They choose to be our enemy. When they are right next door. Their side lost the Cold War and they have done nothing to repair relations.

Ball is in their court.

They want to be China's bitch? lol, sure, the Chinese are well known for being gentle masters.

Cuba said all kinds of things 60 years ago. Irrelevant today.

Oh? You saying that don't talk the line of jive anymore?

I see very little.

So, you don't know? Neither do I. I assume they still talk the shit, because why would they not?

It's not like we are going to DO anything about it. So, why not talk tough and maybe fool someone here and there into thinking they are relevant, and maybe get some loving from other anti-American assholes in the world, of which there are many, even inside the US.

Supporting the idea that any country that doesn't bend to our every whim is our enemy is the anti-american position.

So true, yet so many Americans don’t get that.

Cuba did a little more than, "not bend to our every whim".

And hey, I'm open to hearing what they are doing to mend relations. After all, Cold War is over.

Yeah it’s up to little Cuba to fix the relationship, after the US government’s 60 year attack on it.

Agreed. We don't need them, they need US. They want better relations, I'm open to what they have to say.

Perfect attitude for what pretends to be a Christian nation.

The problem is that all have to be Christian. And those who are not play games to guilt people. Guilting them to the abyss.

All do not. We pretend we are a Christian nation. For far too many, politics is their religion.

Funny, I've had long, long drag out arguments with leftards that consider the idea that we " are a Christian Nation" to be pure evulness.


Now a lefty wants to use that to get soft treatment for a commie hellhole.

View attachment 513373

Not being able to address what I say you have to try and paint me in your safe little box.

Just keeping it real.

Do you believe that we are a Christian Nation and that we SHOULD base our national policies on our Christian heritage and ideals?

You know, since you brought it up.

No we are not but I believe we should live more up to the principles people pretend they have

Sorry, it's either or. If you want to throw the "Christian nation" shit in our faces, then you have to agree that we are a Christian Nation.


Otherwise, you are just a smarmy bastard playing asshole games.


Me? I do believe that we are a Christian Nation, adn that we should base our policies on our Christian Heritage and ideals.

We say we are BUT we are not. Your statements prove that out.

I think your use of "We" is kind of dishonest here. You are trying to have it both ways, just so you can talk some shit on other people.

YOU don't believe we are a Christian Nation. So, save the "we" talk.

If you want to make an argument about why you think we should have better relations with Cuba, maybe instead of pretending to be part of something YOU ARE NOT,

you should just be honest about YOUR REASONS for it.


OR, is your real motive here, just to talk shit on Christians? Are you just using the suffering of the Cubans as gist for your smear campaign?

You understand my argument. We are not a Christian nation because we do not act like one. I wish we would act more like one.

Do you? Would you support a ban on Abortion? Would you support laws that denied most divorces? Would you support a law that banned alcohol consumption? Or banned gambling?

Or are you just talking bullshit, to justify your little games?

You don't understand anything outside of the Evangelical viewpoint of the Bible.

So, that's a no to all of it. YOur talk of wanting a more "Christian" nation, or at least "acting like it" was just b.s.


What is your real reason for wanting better relations with Cuba?

Christians can have alcohol. Christians can place a bet. You read and are led from the wrong places.

"Evangelicals" loved Trump and he did all of those things............

What is your real reason for wanting better relations with Cuba?

Do you believe that all people are equal and equally deserving of consideration, whether they are Americans or Cubans?

I care less what our relations with Cuba are. I want us to stop doing things that do nothing other than harm people.

helping get rid of an oppressive regime to free the people of cuba will bring them freedom which isn’t harm, just the opposite

We can't do squat. It's been pointed out over and over that our actions have made zero difference.

seems to be having an impact now. have you not been watching the news? we can help more by supporting those freedom fighters…but we got dems in charge who support the Socialist regime…so you are right, nothing will likely happen but these freedom fighters will likely be imprisoned or executed by the leftist regime

People are not protesting over anything we have done. IMO they might have protested far earlier if we had minded our own business.

They voted to move away from Communism towards socalism in 2019.

https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Cuba_2019.pdf?lang=en

haha they didn’t vote to move away from Communism! they weren’t Communist! do you have any clue what Communism is?

they are and have been socialist

See their new constitution.

https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Cuba_2019.pdf?lang=en

 

[Soupnazi630]

Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?​

In a word YES!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics. With their progressive communist system, Cubans don't know 'real' poverty.

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

Americans can just stew in their juices and hate from 90 miles away now!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics.

Really? What was their standard of living in 1958? In 2018?

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

China is pretty awesome! So what's Cuba's GDP per person now? China levels? US levels? Higher?

Cuba's standard of living is better than other banana republics because of their communist system. Their social program successes put an entirely different light on poverty.

That was able to happen even as America was completely intent on destroying Cuba.

Now China is there to lift US pressure off of Cuba and things can only get better.

In fact, when I was in Cuba 3 years ago, the growing prosperity was quite noticable.

But really, aside from that which I say being debated here, why do Americans still hate Cuba and their people?

They're not ever going to be a threat to America.
Even China is not a communist threat to America if America can finally change it's greedy capitalist system to one of 'socially' responsible capitalism that co-operates with the rest of the world's democracies.

Is the next country that falls victim to US occupation going to be Haiti? Will America act to uphold that country's system to protect it from communism?

If America doesn't deliver real aid to Haiti, China most likely will!

You are quite wrong.

Cuban poverty increased nationwide under Castro and communism. They were actually closer tot he USa in terms of no poverty before castro.

Like all communist revolutions they faieled exc ept at mass murder and enforced slavery and destitution.

prior to castro, cuba had a sugar dominated economy with racial slavery.
When castro took over, Fulgencio Batista and friends ran off with millions of pesos. Later, when the soviet bloc disintegrated, cuba lost 85 percent of trade.

As bad as cuba might have it, they still do well in HDI (human development index) due to healthcare and education. Cuba does well with their supply of medical staff and medical training.

Wrong.

They had no slavery under Batista racial or otherwise.

The Batista regime was corrupt but less so than any communist government. The communists imposed mass poverty slavery and destitution from day one.

The measurements of CUbas health care and education comes the cuban communist regime with NO independant verification of any kind. Making it worthless.

Havana was called the Brothel of the Western Hemisphere under Batista.

There is plenty of universal evaluation of Cuban doctors. They work all over the world and are considered excellent.. the BEST.

Brothels are by definition better than communist states. Whores make an honest lliving

Doctords sent abrod is not a measurmenet of the health care system IN CUBA itself which no one outside cuba is allowed to examine.

 

[Soupnazi630]

People suffered for 60 years but you felt good.

I don't feel good that the Cuban people have suffered under Communism for 60 years.

But you are fine with our sanctions that contributed to their suffering and accomplished nothing.

What diplomatic efforts has Cuba made to improve relations since the whole, being our enemy thing?

Not my issue. People are. Politics sucks.

Cuba is the small nation that choose to be the enemy of the superpower that lived right next door. Not a good plan.

If you care about people, then what Cuba does diplomatically to repair that damage, is important.


Have they stopped all the rhetoric about how America is evul, for example?

I can't say that I see them saying much of anything but as others have noted, China and other countries will step in and fulfill what they need.

We can continue to pretend we are doing something.

This is how things work. We put sanctions on China and other countries stepped in to fill their needs. If we prefer to spin our wheels, that's on you (and others) I guess.

Ok. Then they don't need access to the world's largest market, which just happens to be right next door.


Have a good time, and stop bothering me kid.

They don't so much now. We ceded that to others because.........???

So we would feel better?

Your pretense of not knowing about the Cold War, is .... dismissed.


Cuba made a bad call. They choose to be our enemy. When they are right next door. Their side lost the Cold War and they have done nothing to repair relations.

Ball is in their court.

They want to be China's bitch? lol, sure, the Chinese are well known for being gentle masters.

Cuba said all kinds of things 60 years ago. Irrelevant today.

Oh? You saying that don't talk the line of jive anymore?

I see very little.

So, you don't know? Neither do I. I assume they still talk the shit, because why would they not?

It's not like we are going to DO anything about it. So, why not talk tough and maybe fool someone here and there into thinking they are relevant, and maybe get some loving from other anti-American assholes in the world, of which there are many, even inside the US.

Supporting the idea that any country that doesn't bend to our every whim is our enemy is the anti-american position.

So true, yet so many Americans don’t get that.

Cuba did a little more than, "not bend to our every whim".

And hey, I'm open to hearing what they are doing to mend relations. After all, Cold War is over.

Yeah it’s up to little Cuba to fix the relationship, after the US government’s 60 year attack on it.

Agreed. We don't need them, they need US. They want better relations, I'm open to what they have to say.

Perfect attitude for what pretends to be a Christian nation.

The problem is that all have to be Christian. And those who are not play games to guilt people. Guilting them to the abyss.

All do not. We pretend we are a Christian nation. For far too many, politics is their religion.

Funny, I've had long, long drag out arguments with leftards that consider the idea that we " are a Christian Nation" to be pure evulness.


Now a lefty wants to use that to get soft treatment for a commie hellhole.

View attachment 513373

Not being able to address what I say you have to try and paint me in your safe little box.

Just keeping it real.

Do you believe that we are a Christian Nation and that we SHOULD base our national policies on our Christian heritage and ideals?

You know, since you brought it up.

No we are not but I believe we should live more up to the principles people pretend they have

Sorry, it's either or. If you want to throw the "Christian nation" shit in our faces, then you have to agree that we are a Christian Nation.


Otherwise, you are just a smarmy bastard playing asshole games.


Me? I do believe that we are a Christian Nation, adn that we should base our policies on our Christian Heritage and ideals.

We say we are BUT we are not. Your statements prove that out.

I think your use of "We" is kind of dishonest here. You are trying to have it both ways, just so you can talk some shit on other people.

YOU don't believe we are a Christian Nation. So, save the "we" talk.

If you want to make an argument about why you think we should have better relations with Cuba, maybe instead of pretending to be part of something YOU ARE NOT,

you should just be honest about YOUR REASONS for it.


OR, is your real motive here, just to talk shit on Christians? Are you just using the suffering of the Cubans as gist for your smear campaign?

You understand my argument. We are not a Christian nation because we do not act like one. I wish we would act more like one.

Do you? Would you support a ban on Abortion? Would you support laws that denied most divorces? Would you support a law that banned alcohol consumption? Or banned gambling?

Or are you just talking bullshit, to justify your little games?

You don't understand anything outside of the Evangelical viewpoint of the Bible.

So, that's a no to all of it. YOur talk of wanting a more "Christian" nation, or at least "acting like it" was just b.s.


What is your real reason for wanting better relations with Cuba?

Christians can have alcohol. Christians can place a bet. You read and are led from the wrong places.

"Evangelicals" loved Trump and he did all of those things............

What is your real reason for wanting better relations with Cuba?

Do you believe that all people are equal and equally deserving of consideration, whether they are Americans or Cubans?

I care less what our relations with Cuba are. I want us to stop doing things that do nothing other than harm people.

helping get rid of an oppressive regime to free the people of cuba will bring them freedom which isn’t harm, just the opposite

We can't do squat. It's been pointed out over and over that our actions have made zero difference.

seems to be having an impact now. have you not been watching the news? we can help more by supporting those freedom fighters…but we got dems in charge who support the Socialist regime…so you are right, nothing will likely happen but these freedom fighters will likely be imprisoned or executed by the leftist regime

People are not protesting over anything we have done. IMO they might have protested far earlier if we had minded our own business.

They voted to move away from Communism towards socalism in 2019.

https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Cuba_2019.pdf?lang=en

haha they didn’t vote to move away from Communism! they weren’t Communist! do you have any clue what Communism is?

they are and have been socialist

They are and were communist

 

[Sunsettommy]

Slow down.. I don't think we should get people killed to free them.

What about getting them some freedom in exchange for lifting sanctions?

The powers there don't care about the sanctions. As I've already noted, it's not hurting them. Besides, China will provide anything those in power might want.

No wonder large areas of the country are still living in the 1950's.

 

[surada]

Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?​

In a word YES!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics. With their progressive communist system, Cubans don't know 'real' poverty.

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

Americans can just stew in their juices and hate from 90 miles away now!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics.

Really? What was their standard of living in 1958? In 2018?

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

China is pretty awesome! So what's Cuba's GDP per person now? China levels? US levels? Higher?

Cuba's standard of living is better than other banana republics because of their communist system. Their social program successes put an entirely different light on poverty.

That was able to happen even as America was completely intent on destroying Cuba.

Now China is there to lift US pressure off of Cuba and things can only get better.

In fact, when I was in Cuba 3 years ago, the growing prosperity was quite noticable.

But really, aside from that which I say being debated here, why do Americans still hate Cuba and their people?

They're not ever going to be a threat to America.
Even China is not a communist threat to America if America can finally change it's greedy capitalist system to one of 'socially' responsible capitalism that co-operates with the rest of the world's democracies.

Is the next country that falls victim to US occupation going to be Haiti? Will America act to uphold that country's system to protect it from communism?

If America doesn't deliver real aid to Haiti, China most likely will!

You are quite wrong.

Cuban poverty increased nationwide under Castro and communism. They were actually closer tot he USa in terms of no poverty before castro.

Like all communist revolutions they faieled exc ept at mass murder and enforced slavery and destitution.

prior to castro, cuba had a sugar dominated economy with racial slavery.
When castro took over, Fulgencio Batista and friends ran off with millions of pesos. Later, when the soviet bloc disintegrated, cuba lost 85 percent of trade.

As bad as cuba might have it, they still do well in HDI (human development index) due to healthcare and education. Cuba does well with their supply of medical staff and medical training.

Wrong.

They had no slavery under Batista racial or otherwise.

The Batista regime was corrupt but less so than any communist government. The communists imposed mass poverty slavery and destitution from day one.

The measurements of CUbas health care and education comes the cuban communist regime with NO independant verification of any kind. Making it worthless.

Havana was called the Brothel of the Western Hemisphere under Batista.

There is plenty of universal evaluation of Cuban doctors. They work all over the world and are considered excellent.. the BEST.

Brothels are by definition better than communist states. Whores make an honest lliving

Doctords sent abrod is not a measurmenet of the health care system IN CUBA itself which no one outside cuba is allowed to examine.

We were talking about doctors.

Cuban doctors providing excellent medical care around the ...

Cuban doctors providing excellent medical care around the world

*Cuban Hospital Dukhan has become a referral centre in the Gulf region: Cuban ambassador The Cuban Hospital in Dukhan is a centre of excellence in healthcare with about 500...

www.gulf-times.com

 

[Sunsettommy]

People suffered for 60 years but you felt good.

I don't feel good that the Cuban people have suffered under Communism for 60 years.

But you are fine with our sanctions that contributed to their suffering and accomplished nothing.

That is a bunch of baloney, the REST of the world have to some level been trading with Cuba for many years now, China is giving them propping up millions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?​

In a word YES!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics. With their progressive communist system, Cubans don't know 'real' poverty.

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

Americans can just stew in their juices and hate from 90 miles away now!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics.

Really? What was their standard of living in 1958? In 2018?

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

China is pretty awesome! So what's Cuba's GDP per person now? China levels? US levels? Higher?

Cuba's standard of living is better than other banana republics because of their communist system. Their social program successes put an entirely different light on poverty.

That was able to happen even as America was completely intent on destroying Cuba.

Now China is there to lift US pressure off of Cuba and things can only get better.

In fact, when I was in Cuba 3 years ago, the growing prosperity was quite noticable.

But really, aside from that which I say being debated here, why do Americans still hate Cuba and their people?

They're not ever going to be a threat to America.
Even China is not a communist threat to America if America can finally change it's greedy capitalist system to one of 'socially' responsible capitalism that co-operates with the rest of the world's democracies.

Is the next country that falls victim to US occupation going to be Haiti? Will America act to uphold that country's system to protect it from communism?

If America doesn't deliver real aid to Haiti, China most likely will!

You are quite wrong.

Cuban poverty increased nationwide under Castro and communism. They were actually closer tot he USa in terms of no poverty before castro.

Like all communist revolutions they faieled exc ept at mass murder and enforced slavery and destitution.

prior to castro, cuba had a sugar dominated economy with racial slavery.
When castro took over, Fulgencio Batista and friends ran off with millions of pesos. Later, when the soviet bloc disintegrated, cuba lost 85 percent of trade.

As bad as cuba might have it, they still do well in HDI (human development index) due to healthcare and education. Cuba does well with their supply of medical staff and medical training.

Wrong.

They had no slavery under Batista racial or otherwise.

The Batista regime was corrupt but less so than any communist government. The communists imposed mass poverty slavery and destitution from day one.

The measurements of CUbas health care and education comes the cuban communist regime with NO independant verification of any kind. Making it worthless.

Havana was called the Brothel of the Western Hemisphere under Batista.

There is plenty of universal evaluation of Cuban doctors. They work all over the world and are considered excellent.. the BEST.

Brothels are by definition better than communist states. Whores make an honest lliving

Doctords sent abrod is not a measurmenet of the health care system IN CUBA itself which no one outside cuba is allowed to examine.

We were talking about doctors.

Cuban doctors providing excellent medical care around the ...

Cuban doctors providing excellent medical care around the world

*Cuban Hospital Dukhan has become a referral centre in the Gulf region: Cuban ambassador The Cuban Hospital in Dukhan is a centre of excellence in healthcare with about 500...

www.gulf-times.com

It's true, they sometimes rent out their slaves.

 

[Donald H]

Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?​

In a word YES!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics. With their progressive communist system, Cubans don't know 'real' poverty.

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

Americans can just stew in their juices and hate from 90 miles away now!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics.

Really? What was their standard of living in 1958? In 2018?

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

China is pretty awesome! So what's Cuba's GDP per person now? China levels? US levels? Higher?

Cuba's standard of living is better than other banana republics because of their communist system. Their social program successes put an entirely different light on poverty.

That was able to happen even as America was completely intent on destroying Cuba.

Now China is there to lift US pressure off of Cuba and things can only get better.

In fact, when I was in Cuba 3 years ago, the growing prosperity was quite noticable.

But really, aside from that which I say being debated here, why do Americans still hate Cuba and their people?

They're not ever going to be a threat to America.
Even China is not a communist threat to America if America can finally change it's greedy capitalist system to one of 'socially' responsible capitalism that co-operates with the rest of the world's democracies.

Is the next country that falls victim to US occupation going to be Haiti? Will America act to uphold that country's system to protect it from communism?

If America doesn't deliver real aid to Haiti, China most likely will!

You are quite wrong.

Cuban poverty increased nationwide under Castro and communism. They were actually closer tot he USa in terms of no poverty before castro.

Like all communist revolutions they faieled exc ept at mass murder and enforced slavery and destitution.

prior to castro, cuba had a sugar dominated economy with racial slavery.
When castro took over, Fulgencio Batista and friends ran off with millions of pesos. Later, when the soviet bloc disintegrated, cuba lost 85 percent of trade.

As bad as cuba might have it, they still do well in HDI (human development index) due to healthcare and education. Cuba does well with their supply of medical staff and medical training.

Wrong.

They had no slavery under Batista racial or otherwise.

The Batista regime was corrupt but less so than any communist government. The communists imposed mass poverty slavery and destitution from day one.

The measurements of CUbas health care and education comes the cuban communist regime with NO independant verification of any kind. Making it worthless.

Havana was called the Brothel of the Western Hemisphere under Batista.

There is plenty of universal evaluation of Cuban doctors. They work all over the world and are considered excellent.. the BEST.

Brothels are by definition better than communist states. Whores make an honest lliving

Doctords sent abrod is not a measurmenet of the health care system IN CUBA itself which no one outside cuba is allowed to examine.

Most HC ratings I've seen place Cuba's as one place below America's

Your comments on Cuba's HC system are nothing but your American expressions of hate for Cuba and their people. That's not even worth trying to debate. Your personal feelings are to be pitied.

 

[surada]

Cuba has one of the best healthcare systems in the world ...

Cuba has one of the best healthcare systems in the world... but it pays doctors €46 a month

Fergal Browne explores the two sides of the Revolution’s biggest talking point.

www.thejournal.ie

Mar 19, 2016 · Cuba nowadays has a cost-free public health service, which boasts the third-highest doctor-patient ratio in the world with 70,000 trained medics (at …

Cuba's Health Care System: a Model for the World | HuffPost

Cuba's Health Care System: a Model for the World

In praising Cuba, the World Health Organization stresses that it is possible for Third-world countries with limited resources to implement an efficient health care system and provide all segments of the population with social protection worthy of the name.

www.huffpost.com

Aug 08, 2014 · Cuban expertise in the field of health also benefits the people of the Third World. Indeed, since 1963, Cuba has sent doctors and other health workers throughout the Third World to treat the poor. Currently, nearly 30,000 Cuban medical staff are working in over 60 countries around the world. [7]

Cuba Has Sent 2,000 Doctors and Nurses Overseas to Fight ...

Cuba Has Sent 2,000 Doctors and Nurses Overseas to Fight Covid-19

The Trump administration describes Cuba’s medical response teams as “slaves”—we asked the doctors for their take.

www.thenation.com

May 22, 2020 · Cuba has sent more than 2,000 doctors and nurses to 23 countries since the crisis broke. Emergency medical response teams from the island have touched down in …

Does Cuba have the best healthcare system in the world in ...

Does Cuba have the best healthcare system in the world in terms of care and medical research?

Answer (1 of 9): Cuba’s official healthcare statistics (upon which this question is based) are produced by a state allowing no independent verification. Placing blind trust in those statistics is like evaluating the Russian Revolution on the basis of Lenin’s autobiography. It is, in a word, naïve...

www.quora.com

Cuba has been afflicted with economic woes for decades due to trade embargoes and international isolation, because of its embrace of socialism and bonhomie with the Soviets during the cold war era. Not surprisingly, the country’s economy is in sha...

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I think the Castro brothers and their cabal of murderous goons would take up almost all the blame
long before America was in the picture.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Cuba has one of the best healthcare systems in the world ...

Cuba has one of the best healthcare systems in the world... but it pays doctors €46 a month

Fergal Browne explores the two sides of the Revolution’s biggest talking point.

www.thejournal.ie

Mar 19, 2016 · Cuba nowadays has a cost-free public health service, which boasts the third-highest doctor-patient ratio in the world with 70,000 trained medics (at …

Cuba's Health Care System: a Model for the World | HuffPost

Cuba's Health Care System: a Model for the World

In praising Cuba, the World Health Organization stresses that it is possible for Third-world countries with limited resources to implement an efficient health care system and provide all segments of the population with social protection worthy of the name.

www.huffpost.com

Aug 08, 2014 · Cuban expertise in the field of health also benefits the people of the Third World. Indeed, since 1963, Cuba has sent doctors and other health workers throughout the Third World to treat the poor. Currently, nearly 30,000 Cuban medical staff are working in over 60 countries around the world. [7]

Cuba Has Sent 2,000 Doctors and Nurses Overseas to Fight ...

Cuba Has Sent 2,000 Doctors and Nurses Overseas to Fight Covid-19

The Trump administration describes Cuba’s medical response teams as “slaves”—we asked the doctors for their take.

www.thenation.com

May 22, 2020 · Cuba has sent more than 2,000 doctors and nurses to 23 countries since the crisis broke. Emergency medical response teams from the island have touched down in …

Does Cuba have the best healthcare system in the world in ...

Does Cuba have the best healthcare system in the world in terms of care and medical research?

Answer (1 of 9): Cuba’s official healthcare statistics (upon which this question is based) are produced by a state allowing no independent verification. Placing blind trust in those statistics is like evaluating the Russian Revolution on the basis of Lenin’s autobiography. It is, in a word, naïve...

www.quora.com

Cuba has been afflicted with economic woes for decades due to trade embargoes and international isolation, because of its embrace of socialism and bonhomie with the Soviets during the cold war era. Not surprisingly, the country’s economy is in sha...

Cuba has one of the best healthcare systems in the world ...

Their elites and the foreigners who can pay in dollars enjoy it very much.

Their own citizens, not so much.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?​

In a word YES!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics. With their progressive communist system, Cubans don't know 'real' poverty.

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

Americans can just stew in their juices and hate from 90 miles away now!

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics.

Really? What was their standard of living in 1958? In 2018?

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

China is pretty awesome! So what's Cuba's GDP per person now? China levels? US levels? Higher?

Cuba's standard of living is better than other banana republics because of their communist system. Their social program successes put an entirely different light on poverty.

That was able to happen even as America was completely intent on destroying Cuba.

Now China is there to lift US pressure off of Cuba and things can only get better.

In fact, when I was in Cuba 3 years ago, the growing prosperity was quite noticable.

But really, aside from that which I say being debated here, why do Americans still hate Cuba and their people?

They're not ever going to be a threat to America.
Even China is not a communist threat to America if America can finally change it's greedy capitalist system to one of 'socially' responsible capitalism that co-operates with the rest of the world's democracies.

Is the next country that falls victim to US occupation going to be Haiti? Will America act to uphold that country's system to protect it from communism?

If America doesn't deliver real aid to Haiti, China most likely will!

You are quite wrong.

Cuban poverty increased nationwide under Castro and communism. They were actually closer tot he USa in terms of no poverty before castro.

Like all communist revolutions they faieled exc ept at mass murder and enforced slavery and destitution.

prior to castro, cuba had a sugar dominated economy with racial slavery.
When castro took over, Fulgencio Batista and friends ran off with millions of pesos. Later, when the soviet bloc disintegrated, cuba lost 85 percent of trade.

As bad as cuba might have it, they still do well in HDI (human development index) due to healthcare and education. Cuba does well with their supply of medical staff and medical training.

Wrong.

They had no slavery under Batista racial or otherwise.

The Batista regime was corrupt but less so than any communist government. The communists imposed mass poverty slavery and destitution from day one.

The measurements of CUbas health care and education comes the cuban communist regime with NO independant verification of any kind. Making it worthless.

Havana was called the Brothel of the Western Hemisphere under Batista.

There is plenty of universal evaluation of Cuban doctors. They work all over the world and are considered excellent.. the BEST.

Brothels are by definition better than communist states. Whores make an honest lliving

Doctords sent abrod is not a measurmenet of the health care system IN CUBA itself which no one outside cuba is allowed to examine.

We were talking about doctors.

Cuban doctors providing excellent medical care around the ...

Cuban doctors providing excellent medical care around the world

*Cuban Hospital Dukhan has become a referral centre in the Gulf region: Cuban ambassador The Cuban Hospital in Dukhan is a centre of excellence in healthcare with about 500...

www.gulf-times.com

No we are not talking about doctors we are talking about what the communists have done FOR CUBA

Do try and keep up