Is there any hope for the PA

[flacaltenn]

The entire Middle East is a "European Colonial fiat"... Iraq, Syria, Lebanon --- ALL drawn over tea and crumpets in a day or two.. Israel was NEVER a colony of the British Empire. And CERTAINLY --- the Palis have never mustered even a vague effort to become a nation state.. Better known for hijacking airlines and killing Israeli Olympians under the PLO.. Don't know how you can expect to compete on the International scale when the Ottoman empire is being carved up with no interest in governing or visions for peace and economic prosperity.

We agree a European mess created under Zionist influence. A good humanistic objective of creating a safe-haven for the Jews of Europe at the cost of making innocent people homeless.

Everyone becomes a Terrorist when Justice is hijacked. That's the root cause. Two wrongs don't make it right.

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

Ho can you expect the Palestinians to accept peace while Israel builds settlements? They have agreed to the 67 lines. Want peace, listen to all the world.

Israel worked with the PA to extricate itself from Gaza. The Israeli govt then went into Gaza and EXTRICATED Jewish settlers by force if required to honor that pledge. There was sincere negotiations and roadmaps for commerce and borders. The Palis SCREWED that to hell in less than 8 months. Who would be stupid enough to REPEAT that disaster? Please answer that question PBel.....

Israel has made sure that the Palestinian Authority fails to govern like any nation state that could satisfy the peace makers. Hamas was created by Israel to fight off Fatah influence.

Netanyahu withheld Palestinian Tax money to put the screws onto the Palestinians for going to the UN.

Justice has been hijacked with Zionist money and military force Americans provide them.

A peace by America needs to support the 67 Armistice lines that the World supports.

See -- that's a pretty warped view. Israel only tacitly supported Hamas in Gaza as an alternative to Fatah because at the time -- Hamas was only concerned with community organizing and doing good deeds whilst Fatah was out out hijacking airplanes -- getting it's ass kicked out of Jordan and Lebanon, and organizing Black September. Hamas only became a political entity when they saw the opportunity to rule the newly "LIBERATED" gaza strip... That's where the PA started to dissolve. They were killing each other in the streets before the USA could get it's pants on. The US mistake (and israel too) was rushing Fatah into holding elections before Abbas was ready..

No stable Arab country existed in that region without a slightly tyrannical strong man government. It's not in the cards. Because to keep the factions from killing each other --- you have to find these tribal strongmen that at least have the APPEARANCE of being neutral. Like Assad or a military man. Or a Hussein of any tribe.

 

[flacaltenn]

You're finagling History again...The Arabs refused your devious deal

The Palestinians (Arafat) also rejected the Jordan deal. When the West Bank was within their grasp for becoming a Palestinian province and potentially autonomous. King of Jordan plowed BILLIONS into infrastructure there. Attempted to work with Palis -- included them in the government representation -- and how did they REACT??

They marched tanks on Amman and tried to take down the Kingdom. Wonder why the King GAVE the West Bank to Israel and renounced all claims??

C'mon. It's just not Israel who couldn't find any responsible visionary leadership to deal with. The PA is gonna be remembered as the best opportunity the Palis ever had for statehood..

 

[pbel]

We agree a European mess created under Zionist influence. A good humanistic objective of creating a safe-haven for the Jews of Europe at the cost of making innocent people homeless.

Everyone becomes a Terrorist when Justice is hijacked. That's the root cause. Two wrongs don't make it right.

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

Ho can you expect the Palestinians to accept peace while Israel builds settlements? They have agreed to the 67 lines. Want peace, listen to all the world.

Israel worked with the PA to extricate itself from Gaza. The Israeli govt then went into Gaza and EXTRICATED Jewish settlers by force if required to honor that pledge. There was sincere negotiations and roadmaps for commerce and borders. The Palis SCREWED that to hell in less than 8 months. Who would be stupid enough to REPEAT that disaster? Please answer that question PBel.....

Israel has made sure that the Palestinian Authority fails to govern like any nation state that could satisfy the peace makers. Hamas was created by Israel to fight off Fatah influence.

Netanyahu withheld Palestinian Tax money to put the screws onto the Palestinians for going to the UN.

Justice has been hijacked with Zionist money and military force Americans provide them.

A peace by America needs to support the 67 Armistice lines that the World supports.

See -- that's a pretty warped view. Israel only tacitly supported Hamas in Gaza as an alternative to Fatah because at the time -- Hamas was only concerned with community organizing and doing good deeds whilst Fatah was out out hijacking airplanes -- getting it's ass kicked out of Jordan and Lebanon, and organizing Black September. Hamas only became a political entity when they saw the opportunity to rule the newly "LIBERATED" gaza strip... That's where the PA started to dissolve. They were killing each other in the streets before the USA could get it's pants on. The US mistake (and israel too) was rushing Fatah into holding elections before Abbas was ready..

No stable Arab country existed in that region without a slightly tyrannical strong man government. It's not in the cards. Because to keep the factions from killing each other --- you have to find these tribal strongmen that at least have the APPEARANCE of being neutral. Like Assad or a military man. Or a Hussein of any tribe.

What has any of your commentary got do with reality? The UN by a vote of 129 to 29 made Palestine a nation.

Is the world warped as you suggest?

 

[Indeependent]

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

Ho can you expect the Palestinians to accept peace while Israel builds settlements? They have agreed to the 67 lines. Want peace, listen to all the world.

Israel worked with the PA to extricate itself from Gaza. The Israeli govt then went into Gaza and EXTRICATED Jewish settlers by force if required to honor that pledge. There was sincere negotiations and roadmaps for commerce and borders. The Palis SCREWED that to hell in less than 8 months. Who would be stupid enough to REPEAT that disaster? Please answer that question PBel.....

Israel has made sure that the Palestinian Authority fails to govern like any nation state that could satisfy the peace makers. Hamas was created by Israel to fight off Fatah influence.

Netanyahu withheld Palestinian Tax money to put the screws onto the Palestinians for going to the UN.

Justice has been hijacked with Zionist money and military force Americans provide them.

A peace by America needs to support the 67 Armistice lines that the World supports.

See -- that's a pretty warped view. Israel only tacitly supported Hamas in Gaza as an alternative to Fatah because at the time -- Hamas was only concerned with community organizing and doing good deeds whilst Fatah was out out hijacking airplanes -- getting it's ass kicked out of Jordan and Lebanon, and organizing Black September. Hamas only became a political entity when they saw the opportunity to rule the newly "LIBERATED" gaza strip... That's where the PA started to dissolve. They were killing each other in the streets before the USA could get it's pants on. The US mistake (and israel too) was rushing Fatah into holding elections before Abbas was ready..

No stable Arab country existed in that region without a slightly tyrannical strong man government. It's not in the cards. Because to keep the factions from killing each other --- you have to find these tribal strongmen that at least have the APPEARANCE of being neutral. Like Assad or a military man. Or a Hussein of any tribe.

hat haf t

"hat haf"
Is that how you spell "hah, hah" when you're gotten your a$$ whipped yet again?

 

[Boston1]

We agree a European mess created under Zionist influence. A good humanistic objective of creating a safe-haven for the Jews of Europe at the cost of making innocent people homeless.

Everyone becomes a Terrorist when Justice is hijacked. That's the root cause. Two wrongs don't make it right.

The PA has nothing to do with the early 19th centuries WW2 era. Nor is it accurate to say the consideration of the Judaic plight in early 19th century Europe was responsible for making innocent people homeless. Those innocent people as you describe them are today. Mostly descendants of the combatants who engaged in a war of aggression against the Judaic people both already existing within the mandated area and those returning to their native homeland.

If anyone ended up homeless because of their decision to attack the fledgling Jewish nation; its their own damn fault.

The present situation is clearly indicative of a failure with the PA to actually embrace peace

I'm curious if since no one seems to want to discuss the actual topic if its kinda moot point. Leads me to believe in one of two things. Either peace isn't even remotely the goal so who cares what happens to the PA when Abbas is gone or, there is no viable successor who is actually interested in peace

You're finagling History again...The Arabs refused your devious deal

Not even remotely. My grasp of history comes from long years of study and an interest specifically in middle east studies. You are welcome to refute my assertions point by point, maybe in its own thread, but the blind shotgun blast claiming I've "finagling" again simply isn't a viable bitch. Instead its just another unsubstantiated claim. Feel free to do some cut and pasting and get the thread going. I have no worries about defending my view of the history of this region.

As far as the Arabs refusing "your devious deal" I assume you are referring to the PA and the Israelis negotiations concerning security arrangements in the designated areas.

The PA has squandered every opportunity so far to establish a third palestinian enclave in the mandated area. All they had to do was accept any one of the three deals offered and then engage in peace instead of terrorism and they'd have all the peace, tranquility, and prosperity they could ever hope for.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

The entire Middle East is a "European Colonial fiat"... Iraq, Syria, Lebanon --- ALL drawn over tea and crumpets in a day or two.. Israel was NEVER a colony of the British Empire. And CERTAINLY --- the Palis have never mustered even a vague effort to become a nation state.. Better known for hijacking airlines and killing Israeli Olympians under the PLO.. Don't know how you can expect to compete on the International scale when the Ottoman empire is being carved up with no interest in governing or visions for peace and economic prosperity.

We agree a European mess created under Zionist influence. A good humanistic objective of creating a safe-haven for the Jews of Europe at the cost of making innocent people homeless.

Everyone becomes a Terrorist when Justice is hijacked. That's the root cause. Two wrongs don't make it right.

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

Ho can you expect the Palestinians to accept peace while Israel builds settlements? They have agreed to the 67 lines. Want peace, listen to all the world.

Israel worked with the PA to extricate itself from Gaza. The Israeli govt then went into Gaza and EXTRICATED Jewish settlers by force if required to honor that pledge. There was sincere negotiations and roadmaps for commerce and borders. The Palis SCREWED that to hell in less than 8 months. Who would be stupid enough to REPEAT that disaster? Please answer that question PBel.....

Israel has made sure that the Palestinian Authority fails to govern like any nation state that could satisfy the peace makers. Hamas was created by Israel to fight off Fatah influence.

Netanyahu withheld Palestinian Tax money to put the screws onto the Palestinians for going to the UN.

Justice has been hijacked with Zionist money and military force Americans provide them.

A peace by America needs to support the 67 Armistice lines that the World supports.

They never fail to fail. Give an Islamic terrorist supporter or the Pali terrorists an opportunity to make excuses for their own ineptitude and self-made disasters and they will surely find a way to "blame the joooooos".

How curious that folks in places such as Hong Kong, Vietnam, South Korea and much of Europe which in the past 100 years suffered through real adversity didn't adopt the "victim complex" that typifies the incompetent Pal'istanian Arab.

Those folks noted above took control of their destinies and made a better life for themselves. As a cultural dynamic, Arabs / moslems are the biggest whiners on the planet. Instead of using their energies to better their lives and the lives of their children, they spend enormous amounts of time and energy instilling in their children such hate and loathing for non-moslems and especially Israelis. The Islamic middle east becomes a dumping ground for young adults who know only that they're useless and helpless.

It's a "welfare generation" syndrome on a scale that blankets entire portions of the globe.

 

[Hollie]

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

Ho can you expect the Palestinians to accept peace while Israel builds settlements? They have agreed to the 67 lines. Want peace, listen to all the world.

Israel worked with the PA to extricate itself from Gaza. The Israeli govt then went into Gaza and EXTRICATED Jewish settlers by force if required to honor that pledge. There was sincere negotiations and roadmaps for commerce and borders. The Palis SCREWED that to hell in less than 8 months. Who would be stupid enough to REPEAT that disaster? Please answer that question PBel.....

Israel has made sure that the Palestinian Authority fails to govern like any nation state that could satisfy the peace makers. Hamas was created by Israel to fight off Fatah influence.

Netanyahu withheld Palestinian Tax money to put the screws onto the Palestinians for going to the UN.

Justice has been hijacked with Zionist money and military force Americans provide them.

A peace by America needs to support the 67 Armistice lines that the World supports.

See -- that's a pretty warped view. Israel only tacitly supported Hamas in Gaza as an alternative to Fatah because at the time -- Hamas was only concerned with community organizing and doing good deeds whilst Fatah was out out hijacking airplanes -- getting it's ass kicked out of Jordan and Lebanon, and organizing Black September. Hamas only became a political entity when they saw the opportunity to rule the newly "LIBERATED" gaza strip... That's where the PA started to dissolve. They were killing each other in the streets before the USA could get it's pants on. The US mistake (and israel too) was rushing Fatah into holding elections before Abbas was ready..

No stable Arab country existed in that region without a slightly tyrannical strong man government. It's not in the cards. Because to keep the factions from killing each other --- you have to find these tribal strongmen that at least have the APPEARANCE of being neutral. Like Assad or a military man. Or a Hussein of any tribe.

What has any of your commentary got do with reality? The UN by a vote of 129 to 29 made Palestine a nation.

Is the world warped as you suggest?

What does the UN issuing an opinion have to do with some contrivance of a Pal'istanian "state"?

Words thrown around carelessly can lose all association to their intrinsic meaning. Statehood might imply a working government, responsible for civil affairs with a charge to promote the interests and well-being of the population it represents. None of those attributes are reflected by the competing Islamic terrorist franchises occupying the disputed territories. What we do see are the vestiges of the civil war fought by Hamas and the Fatah terrorists where conflict resolution is resolved the way Islamic terrorists routinely settle their differences: with steet justice at the business end of an AK-47 and kidnap and torture.

The Pal'istanians are no more a state than ISIS claiming to be a "state". When Abbas does retire to his welfare fraud funded mansion, there is every reason to believe that the hudna will end and the Hamas vs. Fatah civil war will resume.

It's what Islamic terrorists do.

 

[pbel]

So call it a nation or homeland.


na·tion
[ˈnāSHən]
NOUN

1. a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory:
   "leading industrialized nations"
   synonyms: country · sovereign state · state · land · realm · kingdom ·
   [more]
   republic · fatherland · motherland · people · race
   • a North American Indian people or confederation of peoples.

Yes yes I think we all know the definition of the terms. In which case when I say palestine has never been a country I can say it on a factual basis.

Your explanation is a finagling of terms. Israel is a European Colonial Fiat, that will be ground by Islam's 1.5 billion people.

The entire Middle East is a "European Colonial fiat"... Iraq, Syria, Lebanon --- ALL drawn over tea and crumpets in a day or two.. Israel was NEVER a colony of the British Empire. And CERTAINLY --- the Palis have never mustered even a vague effort to become a nation state.. Better known for hijacking airlines and killing Israeli Olympians under the PLO.. Don't know how you can expect to compete on the International scale when the Ottoman empire is being carved up with no interest in governing or visions for peace and economic prosperity.

We agree a European mess created under Zionist influence. A good humanistic objective of creating a safe-haven for the Jews of Europe at the cost of making innocent people homeless.

Everyone becomes a Terrorist when Justice is hijacked. That's the root cause. Two wrongs don't make it right.

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

The Holocaust is the worst thing I ever viewed in my life on films. Even here in America the ship Exodus was turned back and perished in Hitler's madness...

We are all culpable in some way.

Today we have created a Velvet Holocaust for a People who had nothing to do with any Jewish persecution...Fascism rules Israel. Two wrongs can't make a right.

 

[Hollie]

Yes yes I think we all know the definition of the terms. In which case when I say palestine has never been a country I can say it on a factual basis.

Your explanation is a finagling of terms. Israel is a European Colonial Fiat, that will be ground by Islam's 1.5 billion people.

The entire Middle East is a "European Colonial fiat"... Iraq, Syria, Lebanon --- ALL drawn over tea and crumpets in a day or two.. Israel was NEVER a colony of the British Empire. And CERTAINLY --- the Palis have never mustered even a vague effort to become a nation state.. Better known for hijacking airlines and killing Israeli Olympians under the PLO.. Don't know how you can expect to compete on the International scale when the Ottoman empire is being carved up with no interest in governing or visions for peace and economic prosperity.

We agree a European mess created under Zionist influence. A good humanistic objective of creating a safe-haven for the Jews of Europe at the cost of making innocent people homeless.

Everyone becomes a Terrorist when Justice is hijacked. That's the root cause. Two wrongs don't make it right.

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

The Holocaust is the worst thing I ever viewed in my life on films. Even here in America the ship Exodus was turned back and perished in Hitler's madness...

We are all culpable in some way.

Today we have created a Velvet Holocaust for a People who had nothing to do with any Jewish persecution...Fascism rules Israel. Two wrongs can't make a right.

Such silly melodrama. The Pal'istanians have had decades and a welfare agency dedicated specifically for their use and abuse. Billions of kafir dollars showered upon them and they had no interest in developing a functioning society.

 

[montelatici]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinian Authority Budget 28% for Security Forces - Funded by US

 

[pbel]

Your explanation is a finagling of terms. Israel is a European Colonial Fiat, that will be ground by Islam's 1.5 billion people.

The entire Middle East is a "European Colonial fiat"... Iraq, Syria, Lebanon --- ALL drawn over tea and crumpets in a day or two.. Israel was NEVER a colony of the British Empire. And CERTAINLY --- the Palis have never mustered even a vague effort to become a nation state.. Better known for hijacking airlines and killing Israeli Olympians under the PLO.. Don't know how you can expect to compete on the International scale when the Ottoman empire is being carved up with no interest in governing or visions for peace and economic prosperity.

We agree a European mess created under Zionist influence. A good humanistic objective of creating a safe-haven for the Jews of Europe at the cost of making innocent people homeless.

Everyone becomes a Terrorist when Justice is hijacked. That's the root cause. Two wrongs don't make it right.

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

The Holocaust is the worst thing I ever viewed in my life on films. Even here in America the ship Exodus was turned back and perished in Hitler's madness...

We are all culpable in some way.

Today we have created a Velvet Holocaust for a People who had nothing to do with any Jewish persecution...Fascism rules Israel. Two wrongs can't make a right.

Such silly melodrama. The Pal'istanians have had decades and a welfare agency dedicated specifically for their use and abuse. Billions of kafir dollars showered upon them and they had no interest in developing a functioning society.

Israeli PM Olmert just went to jail for corruption, Orthodox Rabbi have been known to deal in body parts...Corruption is not exclusive to Palestinians...

Your Hollowness is astounding, especially in morals.

 

[Hollie]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

More of the pointless whining and excuses for competing franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc. spending more time killing each other as posturing for a share of UNRWA welfare dollars than making an attempt at building a functioning society.

Promoting failure and incompetence on the part of Islamic terrorists only serves to demonstrate the obvious reasons why Islamic terrorists are inept and incompetent at managing the civil affairs of government.

 

[pbel]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

More of the pointless whining and excuses for competing franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc. spending more time killing each other as posturing for a share of UNRWA welfare dollars than making an attempt at building a functioning society.

Promoting failure and incompetence on the part of Islamic terrorists only serves to demonstrate the obvious reasons why Islamic terrorists are inept and incompetent at managing the civil affairs of government.

Your Zion'stanista proclamations make you appear deranged. The PA can not function because Israel refuses to un-occupy its lands.

 

[Hollie]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

More of the pointless whining and excuses for competing franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc. spending more time killing each other as posturing for a share of UNRWA welfare dollars than making an attempt at building a functioning society.

Promoting failure and incompetence on the part of Islamic terrorists only serves to demonstrate the obvious reasons why Islamic terrorists are inept and incompetent at managing the civil affairs of government.

Your Zion'stanista proclamations make you appear deranged. The PA can not function because Israel refuses to un-occupy its lands.

That's so silly. Your excuses for failure and incompetence on the part of Islamic terrorists to manage the civil affairs of government have all been addressed previously.

There's a river in Egypt....

 

[P F Tinmore]

Close down the PA.

 

[Hollie]

Close down the PA.

Close down the PA?

Oh my. How can we deny the young, aspiring islamo-splodeydope that rich history of Islamic terrorism in service of providing Islamic terrorist kingpins with fabulous wealth?

 

[Boston1]

With the main problem being no real interest in peace with its neighbors. The palestinians and their PA leadership simply doesn't want to live peacefully next to its Jewish neighbors.

Abbas might be willing to pretend peace such that he can keep the aid dollars flowing, but in the end he's done nothing to unite the palestinian people and pressure Jordan to accept what portion of the Arab palestinians would prefer to live in Jordan

 

[montelatici]

With the main problem being no real interest in peace with its neighbors. The palestinians and their PA leadership simply doesn't want to live peacefully next to its Jewish neighbors.

Abbas might be willing to pretend peace such that he can keep the aid dollars flowing, but in the end he's done nothing to unite the palestinian people and pressure Jordan to accept what portion of the Arab palestinians would prefer to live in Jordan

Naw, the Palestinians will stay where they are and just wait a generation or so until they outnumber the Jews substantially, then it will be up to Israel to enfranchise all the people under its control or remain an Apartheid state.