Is there anyone left who thinks marijuana should be illegal?

[AVG-JOE]

Here:

About Marijuana - NORML

Go in to your control panel and turn your Sarcasm setting to "on".

The thesis of my post was directed to California Girl. She says that there is, and I quote, "vast amounts of data...".

I simply believe that if she can post a few links to what she's been reading, it may shed some light on her position and this discussion. If she CAN'T produce a link... well, that will shed a slightly different light on her position.

I expect intelligent people to have the ability to educate themselves and not to be spoon fed facts. If you can't do that, it ain't my problem. I've told you where the research comes from.... the research councils within European countries.... For information: there is no 'European language'.... the research is, generally, available in English. All you have to do is find it and educate yourself.... like I did.

And I expect people involved in discussion and debate to back up things proclaimed as 'truth' with something other than their own oft repeated opinion.

Welcome to America.

 

[Article 15]

Yeah sure. Just like alcohol and cigs.

Do you honestly believe the drug dealers will all just close up shop? The only way the "drug war" will end is if the government sells pot cheaper than the cartels. Not gonna happen.

Yes, like alcohol. It is harder for kids to get. Cigs are legal at 18 so not like them.

If made legal, yes, I think it would be cheaper than it is now. No, I don't think all drug dealers will close up shop but I do believe that the overwhelming majority of pot dealers will no longer sell marijuana. The ones who remain in the marijuana business will likely stay in it but now in a legitimate fashion, paying taxes and all that jazz.

Who says it will be the government selling the weed?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Since it appears that many posters are too fucking stupid to undertake quite straightforward research, here's a starting point (and it's from the US.... Harvard... so they don't even have to cope with 'foreign' shit).... the article provides further links.... sadly, some of these are not from US sources. However, since Americans are genetically no different to the rest of the human race, even we should be able to cope with the facts about MJ.

THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE

MENTAL HEALTH, BRAIN FUNCTION, AND MEMORY

It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.

In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.

Thanks for the link. Interesting read, but I still don't see dangers worthy of supporting government intervention in my life with penal penalties for use as long as tobacco and alcohol products remain legal.

Let's legislate responsibility rather than morality. It'd be SO much easier...

"F R E E D O M ! ! !"

 

[AVG-JOE]

That link is saying that if someone already has a mental issue that marijuana could aggravate it. Not that marijuana causes normal people to have mental issues. Thats fine, I don't want Neubarth or rdean to smoke marijuana anyway.

And the link says that research is being done with marijuana to actually treat mental disorders.

MJ can act as a trigger for mental illness, particularly in young people. Research in NZ suggests that young people smoking MJ are 3 times more likely to develop mental problems. That's 300% more likely.

Anyone who claims that MJ is not dangerous is talking out of their ass.

Now, don't get me wrong, I honestly don't care if someone chooses to risk mental illness. Your business is your business. The only thing I care about is that, like alcohol, it impairs your judgement... and stupid people doing drugs or drinking impacts on me.

I don't want to pay for your self inflicted mental problems, nor do I want to lose another loved one because some fucking asshole drives a vehicle while their judgement is impaired. Kill yourself, be as paranoid or mentally disturbed as you like.... just don't impact on me and don't expect me to pay to help you fix your self inflicted illness.

So how about we start focusing the political discussion on personal responsibility for decisions and tell our representatives to get the fuck out of our homes with their freedom squelching attempts at legislating morality?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Adolescents and young adults who are heavy users of marijuana are more likely than non-users to have disrupted brain development, according to a new study. Pediatric researchers found abnormalities in areas of the brain that interconnect brain regions involved in memory, attention, decision-making, language and executive functioning skills. The findings are of particular concern because adolescence is a crucial period for brain development and maturation.

Heavy Marijuana Use May Damage Developing Brain In Teens, Young Adults

The legalization of marijuana will be the nail in the coffin of public education. It's on life support right now.

How many illegal weed dealers do you reckon check I.D. prior to every sale?

How many teenagers have whiskey in their back packs?

This isn't rocket science... Did we learn nothing from prohibition?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Yeah sure. Just like alcohol and cigs.

Do you honestly believe the drug dealers will all just close up shop? The only way the "drug war" will end is if the government sells pot cheaper than the cartels. Not gonna happen.

The drug war will end when licensed dealers begin selling weed for what it's worth plus a reasonable tax.

 

[chanel]

If I believed that, I'd be on board. But I think it's too late for that. "Unlicensed dealers" have, and will continue to have, control of the market. The govt. can't do jack about it now. How could they do better in the future? Esp. if the "war funding" is cut off.

 

[California Girl]

Go in to your control panel and turn your Sarcasm setting to "on".

The thesis of my post was directed to California Girl. She says that there is, and I quote, "vast amounts of data...".

I simply believe that if she can post a few links to what she's been reading, it may shed some light on her position and this discussion. If she CAN'T produce a link... well, that will shed a slightly different light on her position.

I expect intelligent people to have the ability to educate themselves and not to be spoon fed facts. If you can't do that, it ain't my problem. I've told you where the research comes from.... the research councils within European countries.... For information: there is no 'European language'.... the research is, generally, available in English. All you have to do is find it and educate yourself.... like I did.

And I expect people involved in discussion and debate to back up things proclaimed as 'truth' with something other than their own oft repeated opinion.

Welcome to America.

I expect people to educate themselves on a topic in which they have an interest. Welcome to critical thinking. How anyone can have an informed opinion without having researched the topic may be an American way..... but it sure as hell isn't the way of an intelligent individual.

Apparently, is should be 'welcome to dumbed down America'.

 

[California Girl]

Yeah sure. Just like alcohol and cigs.

Do you honestly believe the drug dealers will all just close up shop? The only way the "drug war" will end is if the government sells pot cheaper than the cartels. Not gonna happen.

The drug war will end when licensed dealers begin selling weed for what it's worth plus a reasonable tax.

I already pay (financially) for idiots who can't take responsibility for their actions. I pay for their problems with alcohol, I pay for their obesity... in short, I pay for other people's inability to take personal responsibility. Even more importantly, we - as a society - pay far too much.... every time an innocent person is killed by someone whose judgement is impaired with every DUI. Art 15 may think it's very amusing to risk killing innocent people through his own selfish, arrogant... and frankly criminal behavior... I don't. I've paid already. I will not pay that price again. I will, however, happily support life without parole for people like Art who kill people. In fact, I'd give them the DP... and I'd happily press the damned button to end their miserable lives.

 

[Article 15]

Yeah sure. Just like alcohol and cigs.

Do you honestly believe the drug dealers will all just close up shop? The only way the "drug war" will end is if the government sells pot cheaper than the cartels. Not gonna happen.

The drug war will end when licensed dealers begin selling weed for what it's worth plus a reasonable tax.

I already pay (financially) for idiots who can't take responsibility for their actions. I pay for their problems with alcohol, I pay for their obesity... in short, I pay for other people's inability to take personal responsibility. Even more importantly, we - as a society - pay far too much.... every time an innocent person is killed by someone whose judgement is impaired with every DUI. Art 15 may think it's very amusing to risk killing innocent people through his own selfish, arrogant... and frankly criminal behavior... I don't. I've paid already. I will not pay that price again. I will, however, happily support life without parole for people like Art who kill people. In fact, I'd give them the DP... and I'd happily press the damned button to end their miserable lives.

The miserable one here is you.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Art's killed someone?

 

[California Girl]

The drug war will end when licensed dealers begin selling weed for what it's worth plus a reasonable tax.

I already pay (financially) for idiots who can't take responsibility for their actions. I pay for their problems with alcohol, I pay for their obesity... in short, I pay for other people's inability to take personal responsibility. Even more importantly, we - as a society - pay far too much.... every time an innocent person is killed by someone whose judgement is impaired with every DUI. Art 15 may think it's very amusing to risk killing innocent people through his own selfish, arrogant... and frankly criminal behavior... I don't. I've paid already. I will not pay that price again. I will, however, happily support life without parole for people like Art who kill people. In fact, I'd give them the DP... and I'd happily press the damned button to end their miserable lives.

The miserable one here is you.

Why? Because I don't find it funny to risk killing someone through irresponsible behavior? Yea, I guess I'm a real party pooper. Let me know when a relative of yours dies because someone was impaired through drugs or alcohol and tell me how funny it is.

 

[California Girl]

Art's killed someone?

He admits to driving while stoned. Which, to me, is the equivalent of shooting a gun in a crowded room.... only a matter of time before he's responsible for someone else's death. I despise people who drive while impaired.

 

[Article 15]

I already pay (financially) for idiots who can't take responsibility for their actions. I pay for their problems with alcohol, I pay for their obesity... in short, I pay for other people's inability to take personal responsibility. Even more importantly, we - as a society - pay far too much.... every time an innocent person is killed by someone whose judgement is impaired with every DUI. Art 15 may think it's very amusing to risk killing innocent people through his own selfish, arrogant... and frankly criminal behavior... I don't. I've paid already. I will not pay that price again. I will, however, happily support life without parole for people like Art who kill people. In fact, I'd give them the DP... and I'd happily press the damned button to end their miserable lives.

The miserable one here is you.

Why? Because I don't find it funny to risk killing someone through irresponsible behavior? Yea, I guess I'm a real party pooper. Let me know when a relative of yours dies because someone was impaired through drugs or alcohol and tell me how funny it is.

In 1995 my grandmother was severely injured in a car accident where the other driver was drunk. She never left the hospital and died of pneumonia few weeks after the accident. In 2006 a good friend of mine (and girl I would hook with occasionally) in the Air Force fell asleep at the wheel driving drunk and was killed when she crashed into a tree. Just last week I went to *gasp* Church for the 15th Anniversary of the night my close friend's 8 year old sister was killed by a drunk driver. You REALLY need to lose this notion that you are aware of anything beyond the surface details people supply about their own lives here. And you REALLY need to lose the notion that drunk driving is on par with driving stoned.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If I believed that, I'd be on board. But I think it's too late for that. "Unlicensed dealers" have, and will continue to have, control of the market. The govt. can't do jack about it now. How could they do better in the future? Esp. if the "war funding" is cut off.

No one can predict the future but history shows hands down that control of the nations alcohol supply was established with the repeal of prohibition, not its enactment.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I expect intelligent people to have the ability to educate themselves and not to be spoon fed facts. If you can't do that, it ain't my problem. I've told you where the research comes from.... the research councils within European countries.... For information: there is no 'European language'.... the research is, generally, available in English. All you have to do is find it and educate yourself.... like I did.

And I expect people involved in discussion and debate to back up things proclaimed as 'truth' with something other than their own oft repeated opinion.

Welcome to America.

I expect people to educate themselves on a topic in which they have an interest. Welcome to critical thinking. How anyone can have an informed opinion without having researched the topic may be an American way..... but it sure as hell isn't the way of an intelligent individual.

Apparently, is should be 'welcome to dumbed down America'.

And yet later in the thread you posted a link that was relevant to the conversation and your position.

Was that so hard?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Yeah sure. Just like alcohol and cigs.

Do you honestly believe the drug dealers will all just close up shop? The only way the "drug war" will end is if the government sells pot cheaper than the cartels. Not gonna happen.

The drug war will end when licensed dealers begin selling weed for what it's worth plus a reasonable tax.

I already pay (financially) for idiots who can't take responsibility for their actions. I pay for their problems with alcohol, I pay for their obesity... in short, I pay for other people's inability to take personal responsibility. Even more importantly, we - as a society - pay far too much.... every time an innocent person is killed by someone whose judgement is impaired with every DUI. Art 15 may think it's very amusing to risk killing innocent people through his own selfish, arrogant... and frankly criminal behavior... I don't. I've paid already. I will not pay that price again. I will, however, happily support life without parole for people like Art who kill people. In fact, I'd give them the DP... and I'd happily press the damned button to end their miserable lives.

So you agree that it's high time (pun intended) we abandon this ridiculous attempt at maintaining power by legislating morality and begin the real work of legislating personal responsibility?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Art's killed someone?

He admits to driving while stoned. Which, to me, is the equivalent of shooting a gun in a crowded room.... only a matter of time before he's responsible for someone else's death. I despise people who drive while impaired.

How about people who drive stupid? If 50% of fatalities are a result of driving impaired (and that's a generous estimate SADD Statistics ) what should we do about the 50% of fatalities that occur because we allow people to drive stupid?

Legislating morality is an expensive and slippery slope. Legislating responsibility is a black and white, cost effective way for us to govern ourselves.

 

[NotImpressed]

Art's killed someone?

He admits to driving while stoned. Which, to me, is the equivalent of shooting a gun in a crowded room.... only a matter of time before he's responsible for someone else's death. I despise people who drive while impaired.

How about people who drive stupid? If 50% of fatalities are a result of driving impaired (and that's a generous estimate) what should we do about the 50% of fatalities that occur because we allow people to drive stupid?

Legislating morality is an expensive and slippery slope. Legislating responsibility is a black and white, cost effective way for us to govern ourselves.

C'mon Joe,stop before you derail this whole thread with common sense.
Personal responsibility?What's that?

Why don't we all come together as Americans & push for making anything illegal that could be possibly be harmful directly or indirectly.Junk food,cell phones,green m&m's...Chevrolet,apple pie...

 

[Tom Clancy]

Yeah sure. Just like alcohol and cigs.

Do you honestly believe the drug dealers will all just close up shop? The only way the "drug war" will end is if the government sells pot cheaper than the cartels. Not gonna happen.

Actually it's very possible. Just look at California, they undercut street prices from 5$-10$ (or more), and not to mention people would chose going to a dispensary not just because it's safer but you actually have a good amount of choices, not just bud, but they sell edibles, candy, soda that all have THC in it.

That right there would take away the costumers from the streets and putting them into dispensaries. It's a win win, except for the dealer but he understands.

On a side note, how about we just make it 30-40$ an 1/8? That'll sure bring in costumers.