Is there such thing as "universal morality"?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's because if I need to be told I won't understand it. I expect there's some truth in that.

That's a very important secret to grant to some, but not to me. That seems to me to be poor design.

 

[ding]

It's because if I need to be told I won't understand it. I expect there's some truth in that.

None of us need to be told what the right thing to do or be is. We have the ability to figure it out. All you have to do is put yourself in the other guy’s shoes. It really is as simple as do unto others.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

None of us need to be told what the right thing to do or be is. We have the ability to figure it out.

Actually, we all really don't, especially not in a timely fashion. That's why there are entire fields of study related to ethics and morality. That's why philosophers (and scientists) are still wrangling over ethics and morality. That's why we can't even get two Christian sects, much less all the magical religions of the world, to agree on all of it.That's why we have watched morality and ethics improve over time. that's why you are more moral and ethical than 15th century ding, despite the two of you carrying around the same book of magical, iron age myths.

So your flip comment is absurd.

 

[ding]

None of us need to be told what the right thing to do or be is. We have the ability to figure it out.

Actually, we all really don't, especially not in a timely fashion. That's why there are entire fields of study related to ethics and morality. That's why philosophers (and scientists) are still wrangling over ethics and morality. That's why we can't even get two Christian sects, much less all the magical religions of the world, to agree on all of it.

So your flip comment is absurd.

How many times am I going to have to explain this to you? Violating moral laws of nature are not like violating the physical laws of nature and the reason we all do not behave the same way is because moral laws of nature are discovered and subjectivity leads to rationalizations of wrong as right.

 

[ding]

None of us need to be told what the right thing to do or be is. We have the ability to figure it out.

Actually, we all really don't, especially not in a timely fashion. That's why there are entire fields of study related to ethics and morality. That's why philosophers (and scientists) are still wrangling over ethics and morality. That's why we can't even get two Christian sects, much less all the magical religions of the world, to agree on all of it.

So your flip comment is absurd.

Let me give you an example. When you act like an asshole to a fellow man, you aren’t apt to see your assholeness. But when a fellow man acts like an asshole to you, you do see it very clearly.

 

[Baron]

The Universal Moral is written here.

 

[cnm]

Absolutely. Chattel slavery is so universally moral that YHWH gives instructions.

Leviticus 25:44-46 (KJV)

44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.​

I hope you are behaving in accordance with universal morals. After all, you know what happens if you're naughty...

​

 

[ding]

Sure it does. Love comes from it.

Parents love their children regardless, no deforming necessary. Please try again.

Not like special needs children, Taz.

You must be one to think that deforming babies is good. What’s your deformity?

I’m not like you that’s for certain. I think their lives are worth living. You don’t.

A baby who is born deformed and retarded and who lives in constant pain isn’t a life worth living. Why would god do that?

Why would God make homosexuals?

 

[ding]

If spirit created the material world then why couldn’t spirit alter the material world?

If pigs had wings they'd be able to fly.

Have you ever seriously considered the possibility that spirit created the material world?

 

[Terri4Trump]

Or is morality determined by cultures and individuals themselves?

I know that a conscience is "formed", it is not genetically imputed. Therefore I would say that morality is also learned.

There are human being who commit the most unspeakable acts of barbarity without a care in the world.

 

[Terri4Trump]

Why would God make homosexuals?

Is there anybody here who wants the real, truthful answer to that question?

 

[ding]

Man believes in a universal right and wrong.

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.

So the question that naturally begs to be asked is if there is a universal code of common decency that is independent of man how come we all don't behave the same way when it comes to right and wrong? The reason man doesn't behave the same way is because of subjectivity. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Bias is eliminated when there is no preference for an outcome. To eliminate a preference for an outcome one must have no thought of the consequences to one's self. If one does not practice this they will see subjective truth instead of objective truth. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism. Where consequences to self and preferences for an outcome leads to rationalizations of right and wrong.

Man does know right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he did not violate it. You can see this behavior in almost all quarrels and disagreements. At the heart of every quarrel and disagreement is a belief in a universal right and wrong. So even though each side believes right to be different each side expects the other to believe their side should be universally known and accepted. It is this behavior which tells us there is an expectation for an absolute truth.

If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.

 

[ding]

Why would God make homosexuals?

Is there anybody here who wants the real, truthful answer to that question?

Not really. I'm just messing with Taz. Trying to prove a point.

 

[Terri4Trump]

Why would God make homosexuals?

Is there anybody here who wants the real, truthful answer to that question?

Not really. I'm just messing with Taz. Trying to prove a point.

Well, for the record, I will give it anyways:

Because of Original Sin, our natures are fallen and our desires are disordered. We all suffer from some proclivity to a certain sin. Some folks get angry and violent easy, other are drunkards, others are gluttons, others are liars, and and addicts, and so on. Our disordered desires are part of our fallen nature. Same-sex attraction is just another disordered desire.

It is up to people to be the master of their disordered desires and order them to what God intended. The violent man must learn to be kind and loving. The glutton must learn to consume in moderation. The addict must abstain. The homosexual too must also abstain.

The only problem today is that while we still recognize lying and murder and drunkeness as a sin, much of society has decided that homosexual acts are NOT a sin, and homosexuals have been brainwashed to think that they need not seek forgiveness and practice chastity.

But, so DO, thank God. There are actually some homosexuals out there who realize their issue and participate in support groups like alcoholics and addicts do, and stay chaste just like addicts stay sober, and God bless them for their strength.

 

[Taz]

Parents love their children regardless, no deforming necessary. Please try again.

Not like special needs children, Taz.

You must be one to think that deforming babies is good. What’s your deformity?

I’m not like you that’s for certain. I think their lives are worth living. You don’t.

A baby who is born deformed and retarded and who lives in constant pain isn’t a life worth living. Why would god do that?

Why would God make homosexuals?

Tell us.

 

[ding]

Not like special needs children, Taz.

You must be one to think that deforming babies is good. What’s your deformity?

I’m not like you that’s for certain. I think their lives are worth living. You don’t.

A baby who is born deformed and retarded and who lives in constant pain isn’t a life worth living. Why would god do that?

Why would God make homosexuals?

Tell us.

I was hoping you could tell us why God made people suffer by being homosexual.

 

[Taz]

You must be one to think that deforming babies is good. What’s your deformity?

I’m not like you that’s for certain. I think their lives are worth living. You don’t.

A baby who is born deformed and retarded and who lives in constant pain isn’t a life worth living. Why would god do that?

Why would God make homosexuals?

Tell us.

I was hoping you could tell us why God made people suffer by being homosexual.

Actually, I have a gay friend and he and his husband seem very happy the way they are. He's also a super nice guy.

 

[ding]

I’m not like you that’s for certain. I think their lives are worth living. You don’t.

A baby who is born deformed and retarded and who lives in constant pain isn’t a life worth living. Why would god do that?

Why would God make homosexuals?

Tell us.

I was hoping you could tell us why God made people suffer by being homosexual.

Actually, I have a gay friend and he and his husband seem very happy the way they are. He's also a super nice guy.

A friend huh?

Why did God make it so that homosexuals could raise kids and make those kids suffer?

 

[Taz]

A baby who is born deformed and retarded and who lives in constant pain isn’t a life worth living. Why would god do that?

Why would God make homosexuals?

Tell us.

I was hoping you could tell us why God made people suffer by being homosexual.

Actually, I have a gay friend and he and his husband seem very happy the way they are. He's also a super nice guy.

A friend huh?

Why did God make it so that homosexuals could raise kids and make those kids suffer?

Where is the proof that kids suffer? Got anything?

 

[ding]

Why would God make homosexuals?

Tell us.

I was hoping you could tell us why God made people suffer by being homosexual.

Actually, I have a gay friend and he and his husband seem very happy the way they are. He's also a super nice guy.

A friend huh?

Why did God make it so that homosexuals could raise kids and make those kids suffer?

Where is the proof that kids suffer? Got anything?

They grow up being ridiculed and shunned. It’s a terrible life.

Why do you think God allows that?