Is Tom Brady the Greatest Ever?

[P@triot]

What makes a QB great?

Their ability to throw the ball.

You've said Brady is not because his achievements are team achievements, but you haven't said what the others on your list did or had that made them so much better than Brady (or any other QB). Brady certainly doesn't have much mobility.....but neither did Marino. Brady doesn't have the best arm strength, but someone like Michael Vick did and he wasn't great.

To look specifically at Marino, who certainly was great, Brady has a higher career completion %, better TD to INT ratio, more total TDs, more total yards, more yards per attempt, more yards per game, and a higher QB rating. Brady also had a season with 50 TD passes. Brady has 3 Super Bowl MVPs.
Marino, of course, did what he did in a time with somewhat different rules.

Are those all team achievements?

Finally! Someone makes an actual, intelligent case for why Tom Brady is the best QB ever - instead of some stupid team stat like "he won 26 playoff games". Kudos my friend.

To answer you question: Marino had the arm to make throws Brady can't even fantasize about making. Marino had a lighting quick release that no other QB could ever come close to. Marino completely shattered, then rewrote the record book. No QB ever held as many passing records as Dan Marino. When he retired, there were some records where he was #1, #2, and #3 in that category. Do you have any idea how ISANE that is? Has Brady even held the top two spots for a single record - much less the top three in multiple records? In just his second season in the NFL - Dan Marino set the NFL record for passing TD's in a season with 48 (completely obliterating the previous record). In Brady's second season in the NFL, he was riding the bench. He wasn't even freaking good enough to start - much less shatter major records.

Look at the records Marino still holds - they are jaw-dropping numbers:

Most season leading the league in pass completions (6): 1984–1986, 1988, 1992, 1997

Most games with 450+ passing yards (career): 4

Most touchdown passes, first three seasons in NFL: 96

 

[sealybobo]

What makes a QB great?

Their ability to throw the ball.

You've said Brady is not because his achievements are team achievements, but you haven't said what the others on your list did or had that made them so much better than Brady (or any other QB). Brady certainly doesn't have much mobility.....but neither did Marino. Brady doesn't have the best arm strength, but someone like Michael Vick did and he wasn't great.

To look specifically at Marino, who certainly was great, Brady has a higher career completion %, better TD to INT ratio, more total TDs, more total yards, more yards per attempt, more yards per game, and a higher QB rating. Brady also had a season with 50 TD passes. Brady has 3 Super Bowl MVPs.
Marino, of course, did what he did in a time with somewhat different rules.

Are those all team achievements?

Finally! Someone makes an actual, intelligent case for why Tom Brady is the best QB ever - instead of some stupid team stat like "he won 26 playoff games". Kudos my friend.

To answer you question: Marino had the arm to make throws Brady can't even fantasize about making. Marino had a lighting quick release that no other QB could ever come close to. Marino completely shattered, then rewrote the record book. No QB ever held as many passing records as Dan Marino. When he retired, there were some records where he was #1, #2, and #3 in that category. Do you have any idea how ISANE that is? Has Brady even held the top two spots for a single record - much less the top three in multiple records? In just his second season in the NFL - Dan Marino set the NFL record for passing TD's in a season with 48 (completely obliterating the previous record). In Brady's second season in the NFL, he was riding the bench. He wasn't even freaking good enough to start - much less shatter major records.

Look at the records Marino still holds - they are jaw-dropping numbers:

Most season leading the league in pass completions (6): 1984–1986, 1988, 1992, 1997

Most games with 450+ passing yards (career): 4

Most touchdown passes, first three seasons in NFL: 96

Yet still no superbowls. So he's not the greatest. Next!

I don't care how many yards did you pass for. Did you fucking win the game? Who's better when there's only 2 minutes left?

The guy never put a winning team together. Is that all his fault? No. Is he one of the greatest QB's to ever have played the game? Yup. But he didn't win even once so he's not in the running.

 

[Papageorgio]

That is all you have said in every post. We all get that, yet it doesn't change facts. You are not the only and final word on the subject. You are one opinion in a sea of billions.

It matters to you, a great deal, otherwise you not be posting this......repeatedly

Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks, it's just fun to egg him on and on and catch him in hypocrisy. It has been amusing to see you squirm.

Poopergegio: "Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks"

Then stop taking to your self .

If I thought you were the least bit serious about the issue, it would be on thing, I know you are not and just entertaining yourself, so that is what makes it fun.

I am very serious about Brady, his lying, cheating, destroying evidence and subsequent suspension

Nah, you just use the subject to troll with, it is quite obvious.

You are pure entertainment and I realize that you just say crap to get others riled up. No harm, no foul.

 

[Alex.]

It matters to you, a great deal, otherwise you not be posting this......repeatedly

Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks, it's just fun to egg him on and on and catch him in hypocrisy. It has been amusing to see you squirm.

Poopergegio: "Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks"

Then stop taking to your self .

If I thought you were the least bit serious about the issue, it would be on thing, I know you are not and just entertaining yourself, so that is what makes it fun.

I am very serious about Brady, his lying, cheating, destroying evidence and subsequent suspension

Nah, you just use the subject to troll with, it is quite obvious.

You are pure entertainment and I realize that you just say crap to get others riled up. No harm, no foul.

You get riled up...


Did Brady's representatives use your argument when countering the NFL's position?

 

[Papageorgio]

He now holds nearly every major Super Bowl passing record in addition to the record for most Super Bowl appearances by a quarterback. More importantly, Brady is also tied with Joe Montana, the quarterback many consider to be the best to ever play the game, for most Super Bowl wins and most Super Bowl MVP awards.Jan 24, 2017

Brady cheated and lied to get whatever stats he has.

That is all you have said in every post. We all get that, yet it doesn't change facts. You are not the only and final word on the subject. You are one opinion in a sea of billions.

It matters to you, a great deal, otherwise you not be posting this......repeatedly

Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks, it's just fun to egg him on and on and catch him in hypocrisy. It has been amusing to see you squirm.

Poopergegio: "Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks"

Then stop taking to your self .

Wow! Pooper how original, you get that from your butt buddy LA Ram? LOL!!!

YOu need to get bett

Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks, it's just fun to egg him on and on and catch him in hypocrisy. It has been amusing to see you squirm.

Poopergegio: "Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks"

Then stop taking to your self .

If I thought you were the least bit serious about the issue, it would be on thing, I know you are not and just entertaining yourself, so that is what makes it fun.

I am very serious about Brady, his lying, cheating, destroying evidence and subsequent suspension

Nah, you just use the subject to troll with, it is quite obvious.

You are pure entertainment and I realize that you just say crap to get others riled up. No harm, no foul.

You get riled up...


Did Brady's representatives use your argument when countering the NFL's position?

You don't rile me up, you get me laughing. Anyone that pretends to take Laramsfan seriously is just trolling.

 

[sealybobo]

It matters to you, a great deal, otherwise you not be posting this......repeatedly

Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks, it's just fun to egg him on and on and catch him in hypocrisy. It has been amusing to see you squirm.

Poopergegio: "Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks"

Then stop taking to your self .

If I thought you were the least bit serious about the issue, it would be on thing, I know you are not and just entertaining yourself, so that is what makes it fun.

I am very serious about Brady, his lying, cheating, destroying evidence and subsequent suspension

Nah, you just use the subject to troll with, it is quite obvious.

You are pure entertainment and I realize that you just say crap to get others riled up. No harm, no foul.

And Alex is the pot calling the kettle black. He knew his college team mates were taking steroids and said nothing. So what does he tell his kids? He tells them to tell on their teammates if they know they are taking drugs or deflating balls?

Every team/player will "cheat" if they think they can get away with it or if they are not snitches who want to wind up in ditches like Alex.

 

[sealybobo]

So now you're claiming to be not only a youth football coach but a lawyer who has his own broadcast and speaks to players who give you the real scoop about how they feel about Tom Brady? You're so full of shit, Phallics it's laughable!

Whatever...........Also, I was just featured in a motorsports magazine with my 10 year old son and my badged Indian Motorcycle and will be taking my role as Chief Justice with my son acting as my Law Clerk listening to various lawyers and law students argue cases regarding the BMI (Broadcast Music, Inc) and copyright issues in a couple of weeks, as well as reviewing and deciding various cases for the ethics committee where attorneys have screwed up.

Unlike you we all have lives outside of USMB.

LOL...and what a life it is! You're a regular Walter Mitty!

LOL I have shared all proofs of that life you call a fake to various members here ....even will have a few on my show if they want..

I'd love to watch your show, Walter! When does it air?

It is on the internet and no I do not want you around it....you are a jerk and a clown.

I would love to see it. If you would be ok private message and tell me how to find it. I won't tell anyone else.

 

[Alex.]

Brady cheated and lied to get whatever stats he has.

That is all you have said in every post. We all get that, yet it doesn't change facts. You are not the only and final word on the subject. You are one opinion in a sea of billions.

It matters to you, a great deal, otherwise you not be posting this......repeatedly

Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks, it's just fun to egg him on and on and catch him in hypocrisy. It has been amusing to see you squirm.

Poopergegio: "Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks"

Then stop taking to your self .

Wow! Pooper how original, you get that from your butt buddy LA Ram? LOL!!!

YOu need to get bett

Poopergegio: "Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks"

Then stop taking to your self .

If I thought you were the least bit serious about the issue, it would be on thing, I know you are not and just entertaining yourself, so that is what makes it fun.

I am very serious about Brady, his lying, cheating, destroying evidence and subsequent suspension

Nah, you just use the subject to troll with, it is quite obvious.

You are pure entertainment and I realize that you just say crap to get others riled up. No harm, no foul.

You get riled up...


Did Brady's representatives use your argument when countering the NFL's position?

You don't rile me up, you get me laughing. Anyone that pretends to take Laramsfan seriously is just trolling.

So your answer is that no matter how much you jump and dance with this story of "others" who supposedly cheated. Neither the NFL nor the court would take it as an actual defense or qualified rebuttal.

You did not have to make a fool out of yourself with the garbage you posted.

 

[Alex.]

Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks, it's just fun to egg him on and on and catch him in hypocrisy. It has been amusing to see you squirm.

Poopergegio: "Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks"

Then stop taking to your self .

If I thought you were the least bit serious about the issue, it would be on thing, I know you are not and just entertaining yourself, so that is what makes it fun.

I am very serious about Brady, his lying, cheating, destroying evidence and subsequent suspension

Nah, you just use the subject to troll with, it is quite obvious.

You are pure entertainment and I realize that you just say crap to get others riled up. No harm, no foul.

And Alex is the pot calling the kettle black. He knew his college team mates were taking steroids and said nothing. So what does he tell his kids? He tells them to tell on their teammates if they know they are taking drugs or deflating balls?

Every team/player will "cheat" if they think they can get away with it or if they are not snitches who want to wind up in ditches like Alex.

My college teams mates? what the hell are you talking about?

 

[Alex.]

Whatever...........Also, I was just featured in a motorsports magazine with my 10 year old son and my badged Indian Motorcycle and will be taking my role as Chief Justice with my son acting as my Law Clerk listening to various lawyers and law students argue cases regarding the BMI (Broadcast Music, Inc) and copyright issues in a couple of weeks, as well as reviewing and deciding various cases for the ethics committee where attorneys have screwed up.

Unlike you we all have lives outside of USMB.

LOL...and what a life it is! You're a regular Walter Mitty!

LOL I have shared all proofs of that life you call a fake to various members here ....even will have a few on my show if they want..

I'd love to watch your show, Walter! When does it air?

It is on the internet and no I do not want you around it....you are a jerk and a clown.

I would love to see it. If you would be ok private message and tell me how to find it. I won't tell anyone else.

LOL......No.

 

[Montrovant]

What makes a QB great?

Their ability to throw the ball.

You've said Brady is not because his achievements are team achievements, but you haven't said what the others on your list did or had that made them so much better than Brady (or any other QB). Brady certainly doesn't have much mobility.....but neither did Marino. Brady doesn't have the best arm strength, but someone like Michael Vick did and he wasn't great.

To look specifically at Marino, who certainly was great, Brady has a higher career completion %, better TD to INT ratio, more total TDs, more total yards, more yards per attempt, more yards per game, and a higher QB rating. Brady also had a season with 50 TD passes. Brady has 3 Super Bowl MVPs.
Marino, of course, did what he did in a time with somewhat different rules.

Are those all team achievements?

Finally! Someone makes an actual, intelligent case for why Tom Brady is the best QB ever - instead of some stupid team stat like "he won 26 playoff games". Kudos my friend.

To answer you question: Marino had the arm to make throws Brady can't even fantasize about making. Marino had a lighting quick release that no other QB could ever come close to. Marino completely shattered, then rewrote the record book. No QB ever held as many passing records as Dan Marino. When he retired, there were some records where he was #1, #2, and #3 in that category. Do you have any idea how ISANE that is? Has Brady even held the top two spots for a single record - much less the top three in multiple records? In just his second season in the NFL - Dan Marino set the NFL record for passing TD's in a season with 48 (completely obliterating the previous record). In Brady's second season in the NFL, he was riding the bench. He wasn't even freaking good enough to start - much less shatter major records.

Look at the records Marino still holds - they are jaw-dropping numbers:

Most season leading the league in pass completions (6): 1984–1986, 1988, 1992, 1997

Most games with 450+ passing yards (career): 4

Most touchdown passes, first three seasons in NFL: 96

I understand both sides of the argument. Yes, Marino did things no other QB had done before. Yes, football is a team sport, so giving a QB credit for a SB win is kind of silly. On the other hand, the playoffs and Super Bowl are the highest pressure games for any team and any QB, and the QB is generally considered the most important player on any football team, with the greatest ability to affect the outcome. Marino was unable to help get his team a SB victory. In fact, Marino ended up with a losing playoff record in his career.

There are also the intangible qualities to consider. Those things that make a quarterback a leader of their team are important and much harder to define or quantify.

Calling Marino the greatest ever (in the SB era at least) is nothing odd. There are plenty who would agree with you, despite his lack of SB wins. Marino was an amazing QB.

It's been too many years since Marino played for me to really remember how he performed in the playoffs. His stats drop in a fairly close ratio to the way Brady's do when comparing playoff games to regular season games. Marino as the GOAT is certainly a reasonable choice.

 

[sealybobo]

Poopergegio: "Lol! It matter not what a fool thinks"

Then stop taking to your self .

If I thought you were the least bit serious about the issue, it would be on thing, I know you are not and just entertaining yourself, so that is what makes it fun.

I am very serious about Brady, his lying, cheating, destroying evidence and subsequent suspension

Nah, you just use the subject to troll with, it is quite obvious.

You are pure entertainment and I realize that you just say crap to get others riled up. No harm, no foul.

And Alex is the pot calling the kettle black. He knew his college team mates were taking steroids and said nothing. So what does he tell his kids? He tells them to tell on their teammates if they know they are taking drugs or deflating balls?

Every team/player will "cheat" if they think they can get away with it or if they are not snitches who want to wind up in ditches like Alex.

My college teams mates? what the hell are you talking about?

Earlier you were talking about your college teammates who were taking steroids. And how you guys would snap towels in the shower and how you had your one gay experience in college with the kicker?

 

[sealybobo]

Bfd. But I also didn't care Clinton lied under oath. Who wouldn't?

Why is it all progressives embrace cheating, lying, unethical behavior? The left is so disgusting. Anything short of the highest level of integrity is intolerable and unacceptable.

We know you wouldn't cheat. That's why you didn't make the college football team.

I wouldn't cheat. I refused to cheat. And you know what? I did make a college football team. Not only that - I made a Division I college football team.

Bama cheats too. They've been caught too. Still who's the greatest college football team? That's right. Same thing.

Who is the greatest college football team? Clemson. They kicked Alabama's ass up and down the field. They have the National Championship trophy and they will all receive the 2016 National Championship rings.

I'm curious, Patriot...having been a Division I player...do you maintain that today's college players are not taking PED's?

When I played - I can say with 100% certainty that some where. Though I have absolutely no idea how they beat their drug tests.

How many of today's players are? I wouldn't event venture to guess. I do think it is very prevalent in the NFL though. I know a guy I played with in high school (he actually went to my rival school in college) was doing a ton of steroids and ended up playing a decade in the NFL. Again - how he beat the tests in college and the NFL, I have no idea. But I know for a fact he was doing them.

Alex I thought you said this

 

[P@triot]

On the other hand, the playoffs and Super Bowl are the highest pressure games for any team and any QB, and the QB is generally considered the most important player on any football team, with the greatest ability to affect the outcome.

And therein lies the problem. This stems from media and fans that truly don't understand football. A great example is Trent Dilfer. He has a Super Bowl ring and he was absolute awful. But that Baltimore Ravens defense was legendary and defense wins championships. Just look at the list of Super Bowl winning QB's throughout history:

Doug Williams (Washington Redskins)
Mark Rypien (Washington Redskins)
Jim McMahon (Chicago Bears)
Phil Sims (NY Giants)
Jeff Rutledge (NY Giants)
Brad Johnson (Tampa Bay)
Trent Dilfer (Baltimore)

That is a pretty pitiful list of QB's (and that's just off the top of my head). Meanwhile - look at the guys who never won a ring. Dan Marino. Dan Fouts. Jim Kelly. Frank Tarkenton. Warren Moon. All Hall of Famers. But they didn't have the TEAM around them.

 

[P@triot]

My college teams mates? what the hell are you talking about?

As usual....Sealy is completely confused. She has no idea who is saying what.

 

[sealybobo]

On the other hand, the playoffs and Super Bowl are the highest pressure games for any team and any QB, and the QB is generally considered the most important player on any football team, with the greatest ability to affect the outcome.

And therein lies the problem. This stems from media and fans that truly don't understand football. A great example is Trent Dilfer. He has a Super Bowl ring and he was absolute awful. But that Baltimore Ravens defense was legendary and defense wins championships. Just look at the list of Super Bowl winning QB's throughout history:

Doug Williams (Washington Redskins)
Mark Rypien (Washington Redskins)
Jim McMahon (Chicago Bears)
Phil Sims (NY Giants)
Jeff Rutledge (NY Giants)
Brad Johnson (Tampa Bay)
Trent Dilfer (Baltimore)

That is a pretty pitiful list of QB's (and that's just off the top of my head). Meanwhile - look at the guys who never won a ring. Dan Marino. Dan Fouts. Jim Kelly. Frank Tarkenton. Warren Moon. All Hall of Famers. But they didn't have the TEAM around them.

1. The fact they never won when it counted taints all their careers.

2. These guys only won 1. It is true not every superbowl QB is a HOFer. None of them are being considered greatest of all time. Brady has 4 rings. Tell me how many bad QB's have 2 or more Superbowls rings. Eli? Ben Rothlessburger? Maybe those are two examples but even they might be HOF'ers. Then Troy Aikman has 3 rings. He's not the greatest. Ok, so I see what you mean. But then Brady has 4 rings and 2 loses. One of his Superbowl loses was a perfect season. How many average QB's have a perfect season? None. You got to be something special to do that. But then Cam almost did it too. Is Cam a future HOF? I don't know after this year. God I'm so confused. LOL

It is true you only have to win 3-4 games to win a superbowl. First round, second round and then Superbowl unless you are a wildcard. So ok I guess an average QB can do it on a great team true.

 

[sealybobo]

My college teams mates? what the hell are you talking about?

As usual....Sealy is completely confused. She has no idea who is saying what.

So it was you who was snapping towls in college instead of bras. LOL.

 

[WhyPluto]

Tom Brady is the G.O.A.T. bar none. The secret is that Bill Belichick keep on supplying him with outstanding receivers and runners (Edleman, Welker, Gronkowski, even Randy Moss, etc.). Along with great blockers on offense and very effective defensive capability they have dominated the NFL for the last 16 years. As for everyone who hates him, it's just sour grapes that their team didn't draft him. So, to put in the vernacular, piss off.

 

[Alex.]

If I thought you were the least bit serious about the issue, it would be on thing, I know you are not and just entertaining yourself, so that is what makes it fun.

I am very serious about Brady, his lying, cheating, destroying evidence and subsequent suspension

Nah, you just use the subject to troll with, it is quite obvious.

You are pure entertainment and I realize that you just say crap to get others riled up. No harm, no foul.

And Alex is the pot calling the kettle black. He knew his college team mates were taking steroids and said nothing. So what does he tell his kids? He tells them to tell on their teammates if they know they are taking drugs or deflating balls?

Every team/player will "cheat" if they think they can get away with it or if they are not snitches who want to wind up in ditches like Alex.

My college teams mates? what the hell are you talking about?

Earlier you were talking about your college teammates who were taking steroids. And how you guys would snap towels in the shower and how you had your one gay experience in college with the kicker?

NO No No I never said that

 

[Alex.]

Tom Brady is the G.O.A.T. bar none. The secret is that Bill Belichick keep on supplying him with outstanding receivers and runners (Edleman, Welker, Gronkowski, even Randy Moss, etc.). Along with great blockers on offense and very effective defensive capability they have dominated the NFL for the last 16 years. As for everyone who hates him, it's just sour grapes that their team didn't draft him. So, to put in the vernacular, piss off.

WhyPluto: "Tom Brady is the G.O.A.T. bar none"

Brady is a liar and a cheater who destroyed evidence and was suspended he is not the greatest.