Israel continues to demolish the homes built without permits

[Phoenall]

Hey Flag Boy, might want to work on those comprehension skills. The subject is building permits

The fact is that from a earnings point of view the Arabs simply haven't earned all that many building permits.

Around here, building permits cost money and some people just aren't bright enough to earn enough to obtain one

In the UK the cost is usually spread over the time the building work is taken. So you pay an initial fee for your plans to be submitted. Then another fee when the work commences, with some lesser costs during the work and a final payment to sign of. In my case for a two storey brick extension the cost of the permits came to just over £1000

 

[Phoenall]

I'm sure it's just another slanderous remark against the Judaic people

You should look stuff up before making yourself look like an idiot AGAIN!

It's a Hebrew word used by the Israeli government!

Which word are you talking about? I can translate.

הַסְבָּרָה‎

A slanderous remark apparently...

There really are some crazies out there in cyberland!

Fortunately, those educated among us can carry out a little translation in Hebrew!

Hasbara means "public relations". When I was in Bar-Ilan from 1982-1983, I would get together with 4 or 5 friends once a week for an informal Hasbara class. At that time the biggest stain on Israel's image was the Sabra and Shatilla massacre. We wanted to get the word out that Jews should not be blamed when Gentiles kill Gentiles. It was only later, when I entered this Board, that I learned that Hasbara was, somehow, a dirty word.

It is the only thing the islamonazi scum have after being warned about their racist comments, so they alter a words meaning and context to get round the rules. The list of banned words get longer and longer and we need to be quick of the mark to get the words use banned so the Jew haters are left hanging

 

[Coyote]

I think it's two seperate issues.

Nonsense

You think its a tragedy when you make the claim ( unsubstantiated ) that the Israeli's are not selling enough building permits to Arab Muslims living in Israel.

You seem to have comprehension issues. You are the one making the (unsubtantiated) claim that "Israeli's are not selling enough building permits to Arab Muslims living in Israel".

As long as that is what you claiming, we really can't go any further on this because it is your position, not mine even though I've clarified my stance at least once.

But you refuse to acknowledge that the penalty for an Arab Muslim who sells land to a Jew is death.

Nothing to do with acknowledging - you're trying to deflect from the topic.

Seems like you're not playing very fair.

I'm playing every bit as fair as you are

Even if your claim is true, and you've offered not a shred of evidence to suggest anything but economic reasons for there not being perfect parity across racial lines. Your still playing the false equivalency game.

I've offered considerably more evidence than you have.

One side kills its own for selling land to a particular racial group.

The other merely ( according to you ) not selling enough building permits.

Which has what do do with the price of tea in China?

We're talking about the permit process in Israel, not what occurs elsewhere.

Massive false equivalency

Massive deflection.

The complaint against Israel, even if it is true, pails in comparison to the injustice done to Israel.

Translation: Because Israel endured great injustice it has a right to commit a great injustice on others.

What an ethical stance that is.

You've lost it if you think i'm saying the Israeli's aren't selling enough building permits to the Arabs. If anything they are giving away as well as selling far to many, and should put a stop to all Arab building until the violence stops.

As far as I'm concerned they should stop pandering to Arab sniveling and employ the Geneva Conventions to the letter. Would eliminate the vast majority of the problem by removing all Arab combatants and their descendants from the equation.

The only conclusion I come up with is that a) you can't prove there is no discrimmination or inequality and b) you have no problem with discrimmination and inequality as long as it's only directed at certain groups of people.

How exactly, in a democratic society, would halt all construction for Arab Israeli citizens but allow construction for Jewish Israeli citizens while maintaining a democratic system?

You are desperate to redirect this discussion away from your claim that there is a racial bias in the issuance of building permits.

Uh, no. I'm sticking to my topic and not getting derailed into yours. The topic is building permits and you keep trying to deflect away from it.

You've refused again and again to prove it by showing us on a building application where it asks for race

And you refuse to answer the question on what qualifies as racism, despite my giving examples of how racism isn't simply a designation on a document.

So have you come up with the proof that permits are denied on the basis of economic conditions?

Looks like your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on and when confronted with the economic realities. That the Arab Muslims can't afford building permits you adamantly refuse to even consider it.

But this imaginary race card you just can't let go of

And your proof is.......?

Odd how that works isn't it ?

 

[Phoenall]

.....

I'm sure it's just another slanderous remark against the Judaic people

You should look stuff up before making yourself look like an idiot AGAIN!

It's a Hebrew word used by the Israeli government!

Thats OK Flag boy I don't find your posts sufficiently entertaining or even just relevant enough to bother wasting my time on the minutia.

Actually I was just noticing that your apparently incapable of addressing the subject and would prefer to switch and bait. Not very bright as that kinda thing may be standard in grade school debates, but not among adults.

The simple fact is that much of the areas in Israel inhabited by Arab Muslims are actually controlled by Arab Muslims in so far as building is concerned. They issue their own permits. Israel has nothing to do with it other than playing the typical scape goat for Arab incompetence.

Gaza is completely independent, among other things proving that statehood has nothing to do with the racism and bigotry involved in the Arab mindset. Gaza could be a state anytime it wants to if the Arab Muslims ever decided to quit focussing on the hatred and start focussing on improving their own standard of living.

Again Gaza is in complete control of its own building permits. Again a false claim that Arabs can't get permits.

Even in the heart of Israel, Jerusalem, about 10% of building permits are granted to Arabs who make up about 20% of Israel's population. So whats the problem ? Seems obvious that the Arabs don't hold a candle to the Judaic people when it comes to economic strength; so why shouldn't their incompetency in financial matters be reflected in their lower likelihood of being able to afford a building permit ?

Blame blame blame is all you people do. Ever thought of taking responsibility for your own condition and making something of yourself in life ?

Quit whining about building permits and focus on improving yourself and maybe someday you can afford a house like the rest of us civilized people.

The issue of permits is not in Gaza, but in areas controlled by Israel.

Palestinian building permits 'political', admits Israel

In practice, almost all Palestinian applications for a building permit are rejected, with the Civil Administration granting only a handful of permits...

...In 2014, the Civil Administration granted just one Palestinian building permit, according to Israeli planning NGO Bimkom.

In the same period, Israel carried 493 demolitions, displacing 969 people, UN figures show.

Unable to get "legal" permission, Palestinians are faced with either leaving or building illegally.

Israel regularly sends bulldozers to demolish hundreds of homes and other structures every year in a move sharply condemned by rights groups and the international community.​

Compare that to illegal Jewish settlements. Some (very few) are demolished. Many illegally built on government land have been provided with government-subsidized infrastructure (even while illegal) or retroactively legalized.

Israeli government challenges the law to embrace illegal settler outposts

Strategically located on a hill like most outposts, Migron’s residents have lived in illegal structures since 2002. The Israeli Ministry of Housing and Construction generously funded them with more than US$1 million, according to the so-called Sasson report.
​

Israel intends to authorize West Bank outpost bloc containing hundreds of illegal buildings - Diplomacy and Defense

Israel intends to authorize a bloc of five West Bank outposts east of Shilo that covers six square kilometers and includes hundreds of illegal structures.

The state submitted the announcement to the High Court of Justice in response a petition filed last year by the human rights group Yesh Din and the owners of the lands in question. The petition calls for immediate evacuation of the Adei Ad outpost because it was built without any building permits on private lands, and because outpost residents have been involved in violent acts threatening local security. ​

So what would you do if a plot of land was earmarked as a new hospital and school for the community and some violent gang bangers moved in and built a new clubhouse, garage and housing for their gang members. Would you do as Israel is and demolish the buildings, or do what you want Israel to do and allow them to deprive the community of much needed medical facilities and schools.

There is no indication that is the case. Let's stick to reality or, provide a source indicating that is the reason for refusal to give permits.

I am, and the facts have been presented on this and many boards regarding illegal buildings being erected on sites destined for schools and hospitals. Once the evidence has been produced to show that Israel acted within the law we get one of two reactions

1) Then the law should be altered so that Israel cant act as any other nation does

2) The subject is dropped for a few weeks or months before being reborn

 

[Coyote]

.....

You should look stuff up before making yourself look like an idiot AGAIN!

It's a Hebrew word used by the Israeli government!

Thats OK Flag boy I don't find your posts sufficiently entertaining or even just relevant enough to bother wasting my time on the minutia.

Actually I was just noticing that your apparently incapable of addressing the subject and would prefer to switch and bait. Not very bright as that kinda thing may be standard in grade school debates, but not among adults.

The simple fact is that much of the areas in Israel inhabited by Arab Muslims are actually controlled by Arab Muslims in so far as building is concerned. They issue their own permits. Israel has nothing to do with it other than playing the typical scape goat for Arab incompetence.

Gaza is completely independent, among other things proving that statehood has nothing to do with the racism and bigotry involved in the Arab mindset. Gaza could be a state anytime it wants to if the Arab Muslims ever decided to quit focussing on the hatred and start focussing on improving their own standard of living.

Again Gaza is in complete control of its own building permits. Again a false claim that Arabs can't get permits.

Even in the heart of Israel, Jerusalem, about 10% of building permits are granted to Arabs who make up about 20% of Israel's population. So whats the problem ? Seems obvious that the Arabs don't hold a candle to the Judaic people when it comes to economic strength; so why shouldn't their incompetency in financial matters be reflected in their lower likelihood of being able to afford a building permit ?

Blame blame blame is all you people do. Ever thought of taking responsibility for your own condition and making something of yourself in life ?

Quit whining about building permits and focus on improving yourself and maybe someday you can afford a house like the rest of us civilized people.

The issue of permits is not in Gaza, but in areas controlled by Israel.

Palestinian building permits 'political', admits Israel

In practice, almost all Palestinian applications for a building permit are rejected, with the Civil Administration granting only a handful of permits...

...In 2014, the Civil Administration granted just one Palestinian building permit, according to Israeli planning NGO Bimkom.

In the same period, Israel carried 493 demolitions, displacing 969 people, UN figures show.

Unable to get "legal" permission, Palestinians are faced with either leaving or building illegally.

Israel regularly sends bulldozers to demolish hundreds of homes and other structures every year in a move sharply condemned by rights groups and the international community.​

Compare that to illegal Jewish settlements. Some (very few) are demolished. Many illegally built on government land have been provided with government-subsidized infrastructure (even while illegal) or retroactively legalized.

Israeli government challenges the law to embrace illegal settler outposts

Strategically located on a hill like most outposts, Migron’s residents have lived in illegal structures since 2002. The Israeli Ministry of Housing and Construction generously funded them with more than US$1 million, according to the so-called Sasson report.
​

Israel intends to authorize West Bank outpost bloc containing hundreds of illegal buildings - Diplomacy and Defense

Israel intends to authorize a bloc of five West Bank outposts east of Shilo that covers six square kilometers and includes hundreds of illegal structures.

The state submitted the announcement to the High Court of Justice in response a petition filed last year by the human rights group Yesh Din and the owners of the lands in question. The petition calls for immediate evacuation of the Adei Ad outpost because it was built without any building permits on private lands, and because outpost residents have been involved in violent acts threatening local security. ​

So what would you do if a plot of land was earmarked as a new hospital and school for the community and some violent gang bangers moved in and built a new clubhouse, garage and housing for their gang members. Would you do as Israel is and demolish the buildings, or do what you want Israel to do and allow them to deprive the community of much needed medical facilities and schools.

There is no indication that is the case. Let's stick to reality or, provide a source indicating that is the reason for refusal to give permits.

I am, and the facts have been presented on this and many boards regarding illegal buildings being erected on sites destined for schools and hospitals. Once the evidence has been produced to show that Israel acted within the law we get one of two reactions

1) Then the law should be altered so that Israel cant act as any other nation does

2) The subject is dropped for a few weeks or months before being reborn

Again: provide a source indicating that is the reason for refusal to give permits.

 

[Boston1]

Nonsense

You think its a tragedy when you make the claim ( unsubstantiated ) that the Israeli's are not selling enough building permits to Arab Muslims living in Israel.

You seem to have comprehension issues. You are the one making the (unsubtantiated) claim that "Israeli's are not selling enough building permits to Arab Muslims living in Israel".

As long as that is what you claiming, we really can't go any further on this because it is your position, not mine even though I've clarified my stance at least once.

But you refuse to acknowledge that the penalty for an Arab Muslim who sells land to a Jew is death.

Nothing to do with acknowledging - you're trying to deflect from the topic.

Seems like you're not playing very fair.

I'm playing every bit as fair as you are

Even if your claim is true, and you've offered not a shred of evidence to suggest anything but economic reasons for there not being perfect parity across racial lines. Your still playing the false equivalency game.

I've offered considerably more evidence than you have.

One side kills its own for selling land to a particular racial group.

The other merely ( according to you ) not selling enough building permits.

Which has what do do with the price of tea in China?

We're talking about the permit process in Israel, not what occurs elsewhere.

Massive false equivalency

Massive deflection.

The complaint against Israel, even if it is true, pails in comparison to the injustice done to Israel.

Translation: Because Israel endured great injustice it has a right to commit a great injustice on others.

What an ethical stance that is.

You've lost it if you think i'm saying the Israeli's aren't selling enough building permits to the Arabs. If anything they are giving away as well as selling far to many, and should put a stop to all Arab building until the violence stops.

As far as I'm concerned they should stop pandering to Arab sniveling and employ the Geneva Conventions to the letter. Would eliminate the vast majority of the problem by removing all Arab combatants and their descendants from the equation.

The only conclusion I come up with is that a) you can't prove there is no discrimmination or inequality and b) you have no problem with discrimmination and inequality as long as it's only directed at certain groups of people.

How exactly, in a democratic society, would halt all construction for Arab Israeli citizens but allow construction for Jewish Israeli citizens while maintaining a democratic system?

You are desperate to redirect this discussion away from your claim that there is a racial bias in the issuance of building permits.

Uh, no. I'm sticking to my topic and not getting derailed into yours. The topic is building permits and you keep trying to deflect away from it.

You've refused again and again to prove it by showing us on a building application where it asks for race

And you refuse to answer the question on what qualifies as racism, despite my giving examples of how racism isn't simply a designation on a document.

So have you come up with the proof that permits are denied on the basis of economic conditions?

Looks like your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on and when confronted with the economic realities. That the Arab Muslims can't afford building permits you adamantly refuse to even consider it.

But this imaginary race card you just can't let go of

And your proof is.......?

Odd how that works isn't it ?

You are completely confused.

Please show us where I said permits are denied based on income.

;--)

What I said was the Arab Muslims can't afford the permits. So they build without and next thing you know just like anywhere else they end up either having to buy permits and pass inspections or tear down their homes.

There's no discrimination involved, which was your claim. So I asked if you could show us where it asked for race on the application.

At which point you started the backflips and subterfuge

Except some of us aren't so easily distracted

 

[Coyote]

You seem to have comprehension issues. You are the one making the (unsubtantiated) claim that "Israeli's are not selling enough building permits to Arab Muslims living in Israel".

As long as that is what you claiming, we really can't go any further on this because it is your position, not mine even though I've clarified my stance at least once.

Nothing to do with acknowledging - you're trying to deflect from the topic.

I'm playing every bit as fair as you are

I've offered considerably more evidence than you have.

Which has what do do with the price of tea in China?

We're talking about the permit process in Israel, not what occurs elsewhere.

Massive deflection.

Translation: Because Israel endured great injustice it has a right to commit a great injustice on others.

What an ethical stance that is.

You've lost it if you think i'm saying the Israeli's aren't selling enough building permits to the Arabs. If anything they are giving away as well as selling far to many, and should put a stop to all Arab building until the violence stops.

As far as I'm concerned they should stop pandering to Arab sniveling and employ the Geneva Conventions to the letter. Would eliminate the vast majority of the problem by removing all Arab combatants and their descendants from the equation.

The only conclusion I come up with is that a) you can't prove there is no discrimmination or inequality and b) you have no problem with discrimmination and inequality as long as it's only directed at certain groups of people.

How exactly, in a democratic society, would halt all construction for Arab Israeli citizens but allow construction for Jewish Israeli citizens while maintaining a democratic system?

You are desperate to redirect this discussion away from your claim that there is a racial bias in the issuance of building permits.

Uh, no. I'm sticking to my topic and not getting derailed into yours. The topic is building permits and you keep trying to deflect away from it.

You've refused again and again to prove it by showing us on a building application where it asks for race

And you refuse to answer the question on what qualifies as racism, despite my giving examples of how racism isn't simply a designation on a document.

So have you come up with the proof that permits are denied on the basis of economic conditions?

Looks like your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on and when confronted with the economic realities. That the Arab Muslims can't afford building permits you adamantly refuse to even consider it.

But this imaginary race card you just can't let go of

And your proof is.......?

Odd how that works isn't it ?

You are completely confused.

Please show us where I said permits are denied based on income.

;--)

What I said was the Arab Muslims can't afford the permits. So they build without and next thing you know just like anywhere else they end up either having to buy permits and pass inspections or tear down their homes.

When I said "income" I meant "affordability". What you are saying is that those that can't afford it (and, I suspect that includes many Jews as well) simply build illegally. They can't afford the permit, so they don't apply for it, and there is no permit to deny.

There's no discrimination involved, which was your claim. So I asked if you could show us where it asked for race on the application.

At which point you started the backflips and subterfuge

Except some of us aren't so easily distracted

You have yet to prove there is no discrimination, or that permits were denied based on affordability. You make a reasonable case that cost could be a factor, but it is by no means conclusive, particularly across Israel and the Occupied Territories.

You might be able to make a case for cost in Jeruselum, but, even that is not as clear cut as it would appear. Jeruselum has unique problems - cost is one factor, as is a very complicated planning system, and inequities in how it is handled and especially how it is funded. Not even many of Jeruselem's original Jewish inhabitants can afford to live there anymore. However, unlike

Only 7% of Jerusalem Building Permits Go to Palestinian Neighborhoods

...Data given to Jerusalem City Councilor Laura Wharton (Meretz) points to a sharp drop in the number of permits issued to Palestinians. Her data, provided by the NGO Bimkom-Planners for Planning Rights, based on the municipality’s own figures, show that before 2010, an average of 400 housing units were approved annually for eastern Jerusalem, while over the past five years an average of 200 permits have been issued for those neighborhoods, with no specific numbers cited, according to an official statement by the city.

Most homes in East Jerusalem are built without permits – that is, illegally – since the neighborhoods have no master plans on which building permits can be based. When he became mayor seven years ago, Mayor Nir Barkat declared that one of his primary missions with regard to East Jerusalem would be to deal with the illegal construction there. As part of this new policy, home demolitions were reduced, and the municipality began to advance plans to retroactively legalize buildings that had already been built. But these plans encountered various technical obstacles and to date only a few East Jerusalem residents have been able to get their homes legalized retroactively.

To understand the problem one must compare how construction is handled in Jewish Jerusalem (including areas over the Green Line) with the Palestinian neighborhoods of Jerusalem, usually referred to as “East Jerusalem” even though many of these neighborhoods are in the northern and southern parts of the city.

In Jewish Jerusalem most construction is initiated by the government; either the Israel Lands Authority or the Construction and Housing Ministry prepare plans, invest money in environmental development and infrastructure, and publish tenders. The homes, mostly multi-unit high-rises, are built and sold by contractors supervised by the state.

In East Jerusalem, however, there are no government construction initiatives; all the construction is private and generally involves a small number of housing units built on family-owned land. In addition, in most cases, East Jerusalem residents cannot get mortgages because of problems with registering their properties in the Land Registry. Even if they can build their homes legally, they must pay very large sums in levies and taxes, sums that in Jewish Jerusalem are shared by the state, the contractor and the home buyer, who can also get a mortgage.

“Many people apply for building permits but can’t get them because when it comes to the levy stage it’s millions,” says attorney Sami Arshid, an expert in planning and construction in East Jerusalem. “In the Jewish sector the levies are paid by the state or the contractors, who then roll them over to [many] buyers, while the Arabs are building for themselves. Just last week I had a family from Jabal Mukkaber [near East Talpiot] who built seven housing units and were charged a betterment levy of 960,000 shekels [$249,000] and another 300,000 shekels [$78,000] as a road levy. People just give up,” he said. This is another reason that few people in East Jerusalem can get a building permit and end up threatened with criminal proceedings because they build illegally.

Building plans in East Jerusalem have also faced opposition from right-wing representatives on the city council. For example, a large building plan in the neighborhood of Sawaharah, which the municipality promoted as its flagship plan for reducing the gaps between west and east, was held up for years by right-wing city councilors and by former Interior Minister Eli Yishai... ​

So in this case, here are the questions:
1. Why were the number of permits issued to Palestinians cut in half? Did their income suddenly drop in half?
2. Why does the government cover much of the cost in permits, levies and taxes for Jews and not for Palestinians?
3. Why are building plans for East Jerusalem opposed by the city council and Interior Ministry and held up for years but not in West Jerusalem??

And, one further question left over from an earlier post:
1. Why does the Israeli government fund illegal Jewish settlements and provide them with infrastructure but does not do that with Arab villages who often lack the necessary infrastructure? Illegal, in this case, as defined by Israeli law.

Do the answers to these questions fulfill the claim of inequities and discrimmination in the permit process and the whole building and expansion process?

 

[Coyote]

There's no discrimination involved, which was your claim. So I asked if you could show us where it asked for race on the application.

At which point you started the backflips and subterfuge

Except some of us aren't so easily distracted

Insofar as this particular comment - I need some clarification.

Are you claiming that the only way discrimmination (you're the one calling it "racism") can occur is if a permit application asks for race? Is that your claim?

 

[Boston1]

Hey Flag Boy, might want to work on those comprehension skills. The subject is building permits

The fact is that from a earnings point of view the Arabs simply haven't earned all that many building permits.

Around here, building permits cost money and some people just aren't bright enough to earn enough to obtain one

In the UK the cost is usually spread over the time the building work is taken. So you pay an initial fee for your plans to be submitted. Then another fee when the work commences, with some lesser costs during the work and a final payment to sign of. In my case for a two storey brick extension the cost of the permits came to just over £1000

Around here you have to pay up front. Its pricey. There's a little town just up the street from me that charges a $40,000 land use fee. highest in the country is what I hear. And thats JUST the land use fee. Inspections, planning and zoning, tap fees, ( which run around another $30,000 ) are all extra.

So how is some dirt poor fool earning $2500 a year supposed to pay the fees ?

 

[Humanity]

I'm sure it's just another slanderous remark against the Judaic people

You should look stuff up before making yourself look like an idiot AGAIN!

It's a Hebrew word used by the Israeli government!

Which word are you talking about? I can translate.

הַסְבָּרָה‎

A slanderous remark apparently...

There really are some crazies out there in cyberland!

Fortunately, those educated among us can carry out a little translation in Hebrew!

Hasbara means "public relations". When I was in Bar-Ilan from 1982-1983, I would get together with 4 or 5 friends once a week for an informal Hasbara class. At that time the biggest stain on Israel's image was the Sabra and Shatilla massacre. We wanted to get the word out that Jews should not be blamed when Gentiles kill Gentiles. It was only later, when I entered this Board, that I learned that Hasbara was, somehow, a dirty word.

I am fully aware of what the word means, you don't need to be Jewish to understand Hebrew!

"Hasbara classes"...Yes indeed... Indoctrination of how best to try and 'present' to the rest of the world how Israel is a poor, innocent, bullied state...

Which clearly Israel ISN'T and it needs hasbara to maintain this fallacy...

Misinformation is ALWAYS a "dirty word"...

 

[Humanity]

Hey Flag Boy, might want to work on those comprehension skills. The subject is building permits

The fact is that from a earnings point of view the Arabs simply haven't earned all that many building permits.

Around here, building permits cost money and some people just aren't bright enough to earn enough to obtain one

/QUOTE]

In the UK the cost is usually spread over the time the building work is taken. So you pay an initial fee for your plans to be submitted. Then another fee when the work commences, with some lesser costs during the work and a final payment to sign of. In my case for a two storey brick extension the cost of the permits came to just over £1000

Topic is "Israel continues to demolish the homes built without permits"

I don't think there are too many people interested in your two storey extension fucking dumbass!

 

[Boston1]

Looks like you are making new meanings for words again

The list grows long.

My fave so far is indigenous, which according to these guys means hoards of Arab colonists arriving in the early to mid 20th century on land slated to be returned to the native people.

The simple fact is the Arab Muslims don't earn much and most likely simply can't afford a building permit.

Build without a permit and inevitably that shack is going to get torn down.

 

[Humanity]

Looks like you are making new meanings for words again

The list grows long.

My fave so far is indigenous, which according to these guys means hoards of Arab colonists arriving in the early to mid 20th century on land slated to be returned to the native people.

The simple fact is the Arab Muslims don't earn much and most likely simply can't afford a building permit.

Build without a permit and inevitably that shack is going to get torn down.

 

[Coyote]

Looks like you are making new meanings for words again

The list grows long.

My fave so far is indigenous, which according to these guys means hoards of Arab colonists arriving in the early to mid 20th century on land slated to be returned to the native people.

The simple fact is the Arab Muslims don't earn much and most likely simply can't afford a building permit.

Build without a permit and inevitably that shack is going to get torn down.

You haven't proved it, in fact, you ignore the evidence showing it is more than just that.

 

[Boston1]

Looks like you are making new meanings for words again

The list grows long.

My fave so far is indigenous, which according to these guys means hoards of Arab colonists arriving in the early to mid 20th century on land slated to be returned to the native people.

The simple fact is the Arab Muslims don't earn much and most likely simply can't afford a building permit.

Build without a permit and inevitably that shack is going to get torn down.

You haven't proved it, in fact, you ignore the evidence showing it is more than just that.

Areas A and B in Israel are under PA authority and they issue permits as they see fit. The Israeli's don't have anything to do with it.

In area C the Israeli's issue about 10% of the permits to Arabs who make up about 20% of the Israeli population.

The part you seem incapable of grasping is that the GDP, or the amount of money in goods or services each Arab in Israel produces is roughly 12 times less than for an Israeli of Judiac origin.

Which means that the average household likely also earns about 12x less than the average Judaic Israeli household.

Obviously the Arabs are much less likely to be able to afford the building process than the Judaic Israeli's are.

So it makes all the sense in the world that 20% of the population on the lowest rung of the economic ladder wouldn't also be able to afford 20% of the building permits issued.

Couldn't be any simpler

The problem is that you PREFER to cry foul because its within your NARRATIVE to believe there is some kind of evil intent regardless of the economic realities.

Sorry but I don't think anyone is buying it at this point, but yeah. Your welcome to cling to your narrative if it makes you feel better I guess.

 

[Humanity]

Areas A and B in Israel

Didn't know Israel had different areas like that...

Same as the occupied West Bank then?

Interesting....

 

[Coyote]

Looks like you are making new meanings for words again

The list grows long.

My fave so far is indigenous, which according to these guys means hoards of Arab colonists arriving in the early to mid 20th century on land slated to be returned to the native people.

The simple fact is the Arab Muslims don't earn much and most likely simply can't afford a building permit.

Build without a permit and inevitably that shack is going to get torn down.

You haven't proved it, in fact, you ignore the evidence showing it is more than just that.

Areas A and B in Israel are under PA authority and they issue permits as they see fit. The Israeli's don't have anything to do with it.

In area C the Israeli's issue about 10% of the permits to Arabs who make up about 20% of the Israeli population.

The part you seem incapable of grasping is that the GDP, or the amount of money in goods or services each Arab in Israel produces is roughly 12 times less than for an Israeli of Judiac origin.

Which means that the average household likely also earns about 12x less than the average Judaic Israeli household.

Obviously the Arabs are much less likely to be able to afford the building process than the Judaic Israeli's are.

So it makes all the sense in the world that 20% of the population on the lowest rung of the economic ladder wouldn't also be able to afford 20% of the building permits issued.

Couldn't be any simpler

The problem is that you PREFER to cry foul because its within your NARRATIVE to believe there is some kind of evil intent regardless of the economic realities.

Sorry but I don't think anyone is buying it at this point, but yeah. Your welcome to cling to your narrative if it makes you feel better I guess.

The narrative you cling to staunchly is that Israel can do no wrong.

I have provided specific examples and asked questions that you ignore.

Your claim is that there is no discrimination, it is all economic.

One permit for construction in WB was issued to Arabs in 2014. That is not 10%.

There is a lot of poverty among the Jews as well. Yet, as shown in the articles I have posted, Israel heavily subsidizes them the permits and construction.

When Jews build illegally, the government has paid for infrastructure in these illegal outposts.

When Jews build illegally, the state has gone to bat for them in the courts, even arguing for landswaps in order to keep illegal structures on private land.

Presumably, Arab Israeli's are citizens too. Yet they enjoy none of that support or subsidies. Quite the opposite it would seem.

We have a planning official saying outright that the permit process is political in WB.

And more examples had been provided. Are saying they are all lying?

Given that, are you still going to claim there is no discrimination and no inequities? Or are you going to keep on ignoring the evidence.

 

[Boston1]

Areas A and B in Israel

Didn't know Israel had different areas like that...

Same as the occupied West Bank then?

Interesting....

I'm not surprised. Most of the views you express seem to be based off ignorance and lies.

Areas A and B are under PA control and Arabs there have no one but themselves to blame if they can't afford the building permits there.

Its pretty basic, all this nonsense about building permit inequality has nothing to do with race and everything to do with financial ability.

But those folks always looking for another lie to run up the flagpole in order to slander and libel Israel don't really care about truth. As long as its something they can cling to, thats all that matters to them.

 

[Boston1]

Looks like you are making new meanings for words again

The list grows long.

My fave so far is indigenous, which according to these guys means hoards of Arab colonists arriving in the early to mid 20th century on land slated to be returned to the native people.

The simple fact is the Arab Muslims don't earn much and most likely simply can't afford a building permit.

Build without a permit and inevitably that shack is going to get torn down.

You haven't proved it, in fact, you ignore the evidence showing it is more than just that.

Areas A and B in Israel are under PA authority and they issue permits as they see fit. The Israeli's don't have anything to do with it.

In area C the Israeli's issue about 10% of the permits to Arabs who make up about 20% of the Israeli population.

The part you seem incapable of grasping is that the GDP, or the amount of money in goods or services each Arab in Israel produces is roughly 12 times less than for an Israeli of Judiac origin.

Which means that the average household likely also earns about 12x less than the average Judaic Israeli household.

Obviously the Arabs are much less likely to be able to afford the building process than the Judaic Israeli's are.

So it makes all the sense in the world that 20% of the population on the lowest rung of the economic ladder wouldn't also be able to afford 20% of the building permits issued.

Couldn't be any simpler

The problem is that you PREFER to cry foul because its within your NARRATIVE to believe there is some kind of evil intent regardless of the economic realities.

Sorry but I don't think anyone is buying it at this point, but yeah. Your welcome to cling to your narrative if it makes you feel better I guess.

The narrative you cling to staunchly is that Israel can do no wrong.

I have provided specific examples and asked questions that you ignore.

Your claim is that there is no discrimination, it is all economic.

One permit for construction in WB was issued to Arabs in 2014. That is not 10%.

There is a lot of poverty among the Jews as well. Yet, as shown in the articles I have posted, Israel heavily subsidizes them the permits and construction.

When Jews build illegally, the government has paid for infrastructure in these illegal outposts.

When Jews build illegally, the state has gone to bat for them in the courts, even arguing for landswaps in order to keep illegal structures on private land.

Presumably, Arab Israeli's are citizens too. Yet they enjoy none of that support or subsidies. Quite the opposite it would seem.

We have a planning official saying outright that the permit process is political in WB.

And more examples had been provided. Are saying they are all lying?

Given that, are you still going to claim there is no discrimination and no inequities? Or are you going to keep on ignoring the evidence.

Actually I think Israel has screwed up a number of things. But its much more fun to take all the wild claims agains Israel apart and see if there is any truth to them.

Its like a game of find the flaw.

for instance this nonsense about Israel tearing down houses. Guaranteed if I built a shack in the middle of Wash park here in Denver it'd be torn down in a flash. And I also guarantee you I couldn't get a permit for it either.

 

[Shusha]

We have a planning official saying outright that the permit process is political in WB.

Of course it is political! Of course.

We are not discussing, on this thread or on the others which touched on this topic, discrimination of Israeli citizens in Tel Aviv or within the undisputed Israel. (That discrimination exists, but it is of a different nature with different causes). We are discussing here the political intent by BOTH sides to create "facts on the ground" in Area C.

Both sides are trying to push the other out, through whatever means are available to them. The intent of the Israeli side to eventually annex areas which are "clearly primarily Jewish". The intent of the Palestinian side is to maintain the idea that it is ALL "Palestinian land" and use worldwide sympathy and money to maintain that sense of legitimacy.

And both sides use all kinds of justifications for doing what they are doing. Some of them are good, valid justifications. Some of them are bullshit. On both sides.

But it is not racial or ethnic discrimination to prevent foreign nationals from building on territory you expect to become part of your nation. Yes, that applies to both sides. (Though I have entirely different reasons for claiming ethnic/religious discrimination on the part of the Arab Muslims).