Israel continues to demolish the homes built without permits

[Coyote]

Looks like you are making new meanings for words again

The list grows long.

My fave so far is indigenous, which according to these guys means hoards of Arab colonists arriving in the early to mid 20th century on land slated to be returned to the native people.

The simple fact is the Arab Muslims don't earn much and most likely simply can't afford a building permit.

Build without a permit and inevitably that shack is going to get torn down.

You haven't proved it, in fact, you ignore the evidence showing it is more than just that.

Areas A and B in Israel are under PA authority and they issue permits as they see fit. The Israeli's don't have anything to do with it.

In area C the Israeli's issue about 10% of the permits to Arabs who make up about 20% of the Israeli population.

The part you seem incapable of grasping is that the GDP, or the amount of money in goods or services each Arab in Israel produces is roughly 12 times less than for an Israeli of Judiac origin.

Which means that the average household likely also earns about 12x less than the average Judaic Israeli household.

Obviously the Arabs are much less likely to be able to afford the building process than the Judaic Israeli's are.

So it makes all the sense in the world that 20% of the population on the lowest rung of the economic ladder wouldn't also be able to afford 20% of the building permits issued.

Couldn't be any simpler

The problem is that you PREFER to cry foul because its within your NARRATIVE to believe there is some kind of evil intent regardless of the economic realities.

Sorry but I don't think anyone is buying it at this point, but yeah. Your welcome to cling to your narrative if it makes you feel better I guess.

The narrative you cling to staunchly is that Israel can do no wrong.

I have provided specific examples and asked questions that you ignore.

Your claim is that there is no discrimination, it is all economic.

One permit for construction in WB was issued to Arabs in 2014. That is not 10%.

There is a lot of poverty among the Jews as well. Yet, as shown in the articles I have posted, Israel heavily subsidizes them the permits and construction.

When Jews build illegally, the government has paid for infrastructure in these illegal outposts.

When Jews build illegally, the state has gone to bat for them in the courts, even arguing for landswaps in order to keep illegal structures on private land.

Presumably, Arab Israeli's are citizens too. Yet they enjoy none of that support or subsidies. Quite the opposite it would seem.

We have a planning official saying outright that the permit process is political in WB.

And more examples had been provided. Are saying they are all lying?

Given that, are you still going to claim there is no discrimination and no inequities? Or are you going to keep on ignoring the evidence.

Actually I think Israel has screwed up a number of things. But its much more fun to take all the wild claims agains Israel apart and see if there is any truth to them.

Its like a game of find the flaw.

for instance this nonsense about Israel tearing down houses. Guaranteed if I built a shack in the middle of Wash park here in Denver it'd be torn down in a flash. And I also guarantee you I couldn't get a permit for it either.

.......


Have you been yanking my chain.....

 

[Boston1]

Looks like you are making new meanings for words again

The list grows long.

My fave so far is indigenous, which according to these guys means hoards of Arab colonists arriving in the early to mid 20th century on land slated to be returned to the native people.

The simple fact is the Arab Muslims don't earn much and most likely simply can't afford a building permit.

Build without a permit and inevitably that shack is going to get torn down.

You haven't proved it, in fact, you ignore the evidence showing it is more than just that.

Areas A and B in Israel are under PA authority and they issue permits as they see fit. The Israeli's don't have anything to do with it.

In area C the Israeli's issue about 10% of the permits to Arabs who make up about 20% of the Israeli population.

The part you seem incapable of grasping is that the GDP, or the amount of money in goods or services each Arab in Israel produces is roughly 12 times less than for an Israeli of Judiac origin.

Which means that the average household likely also earns about 12x less than the average Judaic Israeli household.

Obviously the Arabs are much less likely to be able to afford the building process than the Judaic Israeli's are.

So it makes all the sense in the world that 20% of the population on the lowest rung of the economic ladder wouldn't also be able to afford 20% of the building permits issued.

Couldn't be any simpler

The problem is that you PREFER to cry foul because its within your NARRATIVE to believe there is some kind of evil intent regardless of the economic realities.

Sorry but I don't think anyone is buying it at this point, but yeah. Your welcome to cling to your narrative if it makes you feel better I guess.

The narrative you cling to staunchly is that Israel can do no wrong.

I have provided specific examples and asked questions that you ignore.

Your claim is that there is no discrimination, it is all economic.

One permit for construction in WB was issued to Arabs in 2014. That is not 10%.

There is a lot of poverty among the Jews as well. Yet, as shown in the articles I have posted, Israel heavily subsidizes them the permits and construction.

When Jews build illegally, the government has paid for infrastructure in these illegal outposts.

When Jews build illegally, the state has gone to bat for them in the courts, even arguing for landswaps in order to keep illegal structures on private land.

Presumably, Arab Israeli's are citizens too. Yet they enjoy none of that support or subsidies. Quite the opposite it would seem.

We have a planning official saying outright that the permit process is political in WB.

And more examples had been provided. Are saying they are all lying?

Given that, are you still going to claim there is no discrimination and no inequities? Or are you going to keep on ignoring the evidence.

Actually I think Israel has screwed up a number of things. But its much more fun to take all the wild claims agains Israel apart and see if there is any truth to them.

Its like a game of find the flaw.

for instance this nonsense about Israel tearing down houses. Guaranteed if I built a shack in the middle of Wash park here in Denver it'd be torn down in a flash. And I also guarantee you I couldn't get a permit for it either.

.......


Have you been yanking my chain.....

Not entirely.

It is a game of find the flaw, but its much more good natured than you might think.

As far as this permitting thing is concerned the basic economic considerations are obvious and most likely preclude any reasonable argument to the contrary.

Oh I'd be surprised if there isn't someone in an office somewhere in the building dep of Israel that hates the Arabs just like there's a few Arabs that hate the Israeli's but all in all I think some bigotry exists everywhere.

I don't see Israel as having the market cornered on that one.

The racism and bigotry can easily be shown to work against the Judaic people, much more so than it is working for them. The amount of money they waste on defending themselves is amazing and I'm sure they'd rather not have to spend it on something so senseless.

Long story short. These cries of foul over the permits, is just another puff of smoke in the larger smoke screen designed to hide the Arab Muslims true intentions of destroying Israel

 

[Coyote]

We have a planning official saying outright that the permit process is political in WB.

Of course it is political! Of course.

We are not discussing, on this thread or on the others which touched on this topic, discrimination of Israeli citizens in Tel Aviv or within the undisputed Israel. (That discrimination exists, but it is of a different nature with different causes). We are discussing here the political intent by BOTH sides to create "facts on the ground" in Area C.

Both sides are trying to push the other out, through whatever means are available to them. The intent of the Israeli side to eventually annex areas which are "clearly primarily Jewish". The intent of the Palestinian side is to maintain the idea that it is ALL "Palestinian land" and use worldwide sympathy and money to maintain that sense of legitimacy.

And both sides use all kinds of justifications for doing what they are doing. Some of them are good, valid justifications. Some of them are bullshit. On both sides.

But it is not racial or ethnic discrimination to prevent foreign nationals from building on territory you expect to become part of your nation. Yes, that applies to both sides. (Though I have entirely different reasons for claiming ethnic/religious discrimination on the part of the Arab Muslims).

Actually - I was also discussing the discrimmination of Arab Israeli's in the permit process though perhaps not totally differentiating them. Arab Israeli's are issued far fewer permits than Jewish Israeli's, and of course, their illegal construction isn't subsidized. I can kind of understand the issue with Palestinian construction in Area C, though I do not agree - but I can not understand it with Arab Israeli citizens.

 

[Boston1]

Areas A and B in Israel

Didn't know Israel had different areas like that...

Same as the occupied West Bank then?

Interesting....

I'm not surprised. Most of the views you express seem to be based off ignorance and lies.

Areas A and B are under PA control and Arabs there have no one but themselves to blame if they can't afford the building permits there.

Its pretty basic, all this nonsense about building permit inequality has nothing to do with race and everything to do with financial ability.

But those folks always looking for another lie to run up the flagpole in order to slander and libel Israel don't really care about truth. As long as its something they can cling to, thats all that matters to them.

I'm not surprised you don't know that the West Bank isn't Israel zionut Hymie...

But hey, a flag waving zionut troll like you, no one could expect too much intelligence could they...

If you had any intelligence you would see that I neither slander no libel Israel... Far from it... I actually believe that, now that the Jews have a 'Homeland' they should keep it... PROVIDED they stay in their 'Homeland' and not occupy others lands!

You cling to your 'Israel First' BS and let everyone else cling onto reality!

Uh oh, Flag Boy is having trouble with this one.

Israel is in effective control of EVERYTHING from the Jordan to the sea. Its all Israel boys and girls ;--) The only authority the PA has is the authority Israel allows them to have.

The Arab Muslims might want parts of Israel for a future state. But hey. I'd like parts of Yellowstone for my future state too. Now mind you I don't want it all, 80% will do nicely. Doesn't mean I have a right to it or a legal claim any more than the Arab Muslims have a right or a legal claim to ANYTHING west of the Jordan.

Maybe I should go terrorize the Northern Shoshone and see if I can torture them into ceding me some land ;--) Cause I'm hoping for a future homeland, right there ;--)

Sorry Flag boy, but your hogwash simply doesn't fly.

Tell you what tho, why don't you go down to your local municipal park and pitch a shack somewhere out on the lawn, when they come to tear it down tell them you couldn't get a permit because you're stupid.

Then see if a lawyer will take your discrimination claim. ;--)

The obvious reason there isn't exact parity within the issuance of building permits is because the Arab Muslims in Israel are dirt poor and simply can't afford the building process.

 

[Boston1]

Areas A and B in Israel

Didn't know Israel had different areas like that...

Same as the occupied West Bank then?

Interesting....

I'm not surprised. Most of the views you express seem to be based off ignorance and lies.

Areas A and B are under PA control and Arabs there have no one but themselves to blame if they can't afford the building permits there.

Its pretty basic, all this nonsense about building permit inequality has nothing to do with race and everything to do with financial ability.

But those folks always looking for another lie to run up the flagpole in order to slander and libel Israel don't really care about truth. As long as its something they can cling to, thats all that matters to them.

I'm not surprised you don't know that the West Bank isn't Israel zionut Hymie...

But hey, a flag waving zionut troll like you, no one could expect too much intelligence could they...

If you had any intelligence you would see that I neither slander no libel Israel... Far from it... I actually believe that, now that the Jews have a 'Homeland' they should keep it... PROVIDED they stay in their 'Homeland' and not occupy others lands!

You cling to your 'Israel First' BS and let everyone else cling onto reality!

Hey Humanity (if you can call yourself that after applauding Odium, a member of the KKK), Boston isn't Jewish. He's Native American. And calling someone that you think is Jewish "Hymie" is indicative of being a rabid Jew-hater.

BTW, Boston, Areas A,B, and C are in the West Bank, not Israel proper. But you're not altogether wrong, since Israel and the West Bank are all part of "Eretz Israel" (or Greater Israel).

I know but I'd be in favor of Israel keeping it permanently and repatriating all combatants back to Jordan or Gaza.

IMHO tho its all Israel and many of my Israeli friends agree.

Not one more inch.

 

[Boston1]

We have a planning official saying outright that the permit process is political in WB.

Of course it is political! Of course.

We are not discussing, on this thread or on the others which touched on this topic, discrimination of Israeli citizens in Tel Aviv or within the undisputed Israel. (That discrimination exists, but it is of a different nature with different causes). We are discussing here the political intent by BOTH sides to create "facts on the ground" in Area C.

Both sides are trying to push the other out, through whatever means are available to them. The intent of the Israeli side to eventually annex areas which are "clearly primarily Jewish". The intent of the Palestinian side is to maintain the idea that it is ALL "Palestinian land" and use worldwide sympathy and money to maintain that sense of legitimacy.

And both sides use all kinds of justifications for doing what they are doing. Some of them are good, valid justifications. Some of them are bullshit. On both sides.

But it is not racial or ethnic discrimination to prevent foreign nationals from building on territory you expect to become part of your nation. Yes, that applies to both sides. (Though I have entirely different reasons for claiming ethnic/religious discrimination on the part of the Arab Muslims).

Actually - I was also discussing the discrimmination of Arab Israeli's in the permit process though perhaps not totally differentiating them. Arab Israeli's are issued far fewer permits than Jewish Israeli's, and of course, their illegal construction isn't subsidized. I can kind of understand the issue with Palestinian construction in Area C, though I do not agree - but I can not understand it with Arab Israeli citizens.

Its simple economics, the Arabs are dirt poor and living off the UNRWA. World welfare services. Of course they can't afford the building process.

Why must there be any prejudice involved ? Its a very simple economic reality that poor people tend to rent and wealthier people tend to own.

 

[Shusha]

Actually - I was also discussing the discrimmination of Arab Israeli's in the permit process though perhaps not totally differentiating them. Arab Israeli's are issued far fewer permits than Jewish Israeli's, and of course, their illegal construction isn't subsidized. I can kind of understand the issue with Palestinian construction in Area C, though I do not agree - but I can not understand it with Arab Israeli citizens.

Yes, but that is my point. I have not seen anything yet, nor can I find any good research, which differentiates clearly between Arab Israeli citizens and Palestinian resident non-citizens. And it makes a very big difference. Nor have I seen any evidence or research on Arab Israeli citizens in Israel "proper'.

Nearly everything we are discussing involves Area C and non-Israeli nationals.

 

[Boston1]

Actually - I was also discussing the discrimmination of Arab Israeli's in the permit process though perhaps not totally differentiating them. Arab Israeli's are issued far fewer permits than Jewish Israeli's, and of course, their illegal construction isn't subsidized. I can kind of understand the issue with Palestinian construction in Area C, though I do not agree - but I can not understand it with Arab Israeli citizens.

Yes, but that is my point. I have not seen anything yet, nor can I find any good research, which differentiates clearly between Arab Israeli citizens and Palestinian resident non-citizens. And it makes a very big difference. Nor have I seen any evidence or research on Arab Israeli citizens in Israel "proper'.

Nearly everything we are discussing involves Area C and non-Israeli nationals.

IMHO the most important distinction is that of combatant or noncombatant.

 

[Coyote]

Actually - I was also discussing the discrimmination of Arab Israeli's in the permit process though perhaps not totally differentiating them. Arab Israeli's are issued far fewer permits than Jewish Israeli's, and of course, their illegal construction isn't subsidized. I can kind of understand the issue with Palestinian construction in Area C, though I do not agree - but I can not understand it with Arab Israeli citizens.

Yes, but that is my point. I have not seen anything yet, nor can I find any good research, which differentiates clearly between Arab Israeli citizens and Palestinian resident non-citizens. And it makes a very big difference. Nor have I seen any evidence or research on Arab Israeli citizens in Israel "proper'.

Nearly everything we are discussing involves Area C and non-Israeli nationals.

Some of the examples I've given include Arab-Israeli citizens, for example in this one:

Israel: Court Permits Discriminatory Evictions

Between 750 and 1,000 Palestinian citizens of Israel who live in Umm al-Hiran, a village in Israel’s southern Negev desert, face removal. Israel relocated the villagers there under a 1956 agreement permitting them to live there in exchange for them dropping claims to land from which they say Israeli forces expelled them in 1948. Israeli authorities have refused to recognize the village, to supply basic services like water or electricity, or to develop a zoning plan to allow residents to obtain building permits. In 2009, Israeli authorities approved plans to use the land to build a Jewish community.


The Supreme Court ruled that the land belongs to the state and that it is entitled to withdraw permission for Umm al-Hiran inhabitants to live there, although the court rejected the government’s claim that the residents are squatters. It also ruled that replacing the village with a neighborhood “with institutions intended to serve the religious Jewish community” would not be discriminatory since, in principle, the Bedouin Umm al-Hiran residents could purchase homes there. Adalah, a nongovernmental legal center that advocates for Arab minority rights in Israel, represented the Umm al-Hiran villagers.​

So, compare that to what happens when Jewish settlers build illegally on state land or Palestinian land and the government supplies them with infrastructure, financial backing and legal help - even to the point of retaining privately owned Palestinian land. But illegal Arab villages, from what I can tell have never been supplied with infrastructure and that is one of the reasons they end up demolished or refused permits.

Another example is Jeruselum, where a large project for an Arab part of the city has been held up while Jewish projects allowed to go on.

Only 7% of Jerusalem building permits go to Palestinian neighborhoods - Israel News

Building plans in East Jerusalem have also faced opposition from right-wing representatives on the city council. For example, a large building plan in the neighborhood of Sawaharah, which the municipality promoted as its flagship plan for reducing the gaps between west and east, was held up for years by right-wing city councilors and by former Interior Minister Eli Yishai. ​

 

[docmauser1]

Building plans in East Jerusalem have also faced opposition from right-wing representatives on the city council. For example, a large building plan in the neighborhood of Sawaharah, which the municipality promoted as its flagship plan for reducing the gaps between west and east, was held up for years by right-wing city councilors and by former Interior Minister Eli Yishai."

Democracy.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Israel demolishes West Bank homes, displacing 36 Palestinians

Quote
Jerusalem (AFP) - Israeli forces demolished dozens of structures including a school in the northern West Bank this week, leaving 10 families homeless, the UN said on Friday.


The demolitions took place on Wednesday in the village of Khirbet Tana, south of Nablus in the northern West Bank.

In total, 41 structures were destroyed, displacing 36 Palestinians including 11 children, the UN's humanitarian body said in a statement.

COGAT, the defence ministry body responsible for coordinating Israeli government activity in the Palestinian territories, put the number of structures at 20.

It said demolition orders were issued in advance.
End Quote

Just like anywhere else if you build a home without a permit its likely to end up getting bulldozed

Demolish homes not built to code. Just what every advanced civilized nation does.

 

[Shusha]

Only 7% of Jerusalem building permits go to Palestinian neighborhoods - Israel News

That article is pay-walled, so I'm not able to look at it. But one of the problems with discussing Jerusalem is the point I'm trying to make -- it doesn't differentiate between Arab Israeli citizens and Palestinian residents.

What I'e been reading suggests that building permits are granted in roughly the same percentages in both Arab and Jewish sections of Jerusalem. And actually Arab areas actually have been permits for a higher number of square feet. See here. So it seems like there is more going on here than news reports would suggest and someone is putting a spin on it.

 

[Shusha]

So, compare that to what happens when Jewish settlers build illegally on state land or Palestinian land and the government supplies them with infrastructure, financial backing and legal help - even to the point of retaining privately owned Palestinian land. But illegal Arab villages, from what I can tell have never been supplied with infrastructure and that is one of the reasons they end up demolished or refused permits.

The problem with the above statement is that it is only sometimes true. Sometimes, Jewish settlers building illegally on State land are supplied with infrastructure, financial backing and legal help. Sometimes, Jewish settlers are essentially ignored. Sometimes, illegal Jewish settlements are demolished.

Sometimes, Arab villages in the Negev are provided with infrastructure and legalized. Sometimes, illegal Arab villages are demolished and the residents offered land elsewhere along with compensation (such as the Umm al-Hiran case). Sometimes, new communities are built and both Jewish people and Bedouin people buy homes and live there.

The Bedouin pose some particular problems. Essentially, a nomadic peoples uprooted and displaced by war, and then squeezed out by increasing urbanization.

But why, do you think the Bedouin should be able to claim land that is not theirs and build on it?

 

[Coyote]

Only 7% of Jerusalem building permits go to Palestinian neighborhoods - Israel News

That article is pay-walled, so I'm not able to look at it. But one of the problems with discussing Jerusalem is the point I'm trying to make -- it doesn't differentiate between Arab Israeli citizens and Palestinian residents.

Even Palestinian residents - whether citizens or not, should have equal treatment in the permit process. Israel took Jerusalem and that includes the residents.

What I'e been reading suggests that building permits are granted in roughly the same percentages in both Arab and Jewish sections of Jerusalem. And actually Arab areas actually have been permits for a higher number of square feet. See here. So it seems like there is more going on here than news reports would suggest and someone is putting a spin on it.

I don't trust reporting from Camera (probably like you feel about B'tselem) - that's why I've been trying to use mainstream news sources when I can. I think Camera might be putting a spin on things.

I did post a longer portion of the article here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/13717976/Israel continues to demolish the homes built without permits[/URL] (unfortunately I can't access the article as I've reached the free access allotment).

I also found more examples in other articles I posted here: Israel continues to demolish the homes built without permits

 

[montelatici]

The goal of the Jews in Israel now in power is to achieve/maintain a Jewish majority in the land they now have control over. Making life difficult for non-Jews, in order to promote their departure, is one of the tactics. Given the demographic realities, it is an existential prerogative for the Jews to do whatever possible, that does not provoke their western supporters, that maximizes the departure of non-Jews from the territory they have control over. They are walking on a tightrope, balancing tactics to achieve their goal while appearing to be acting legally towards their goal. Understandable given their situation. Jews in Israel cannot accept a multi-ethnic or multi-religious society wherein Jews do not have full control. It is similar to the situation of the Alawites in Syria who are now fighting for their survival.

 

[Coyote]

...

So, compare that to what happens when Jewish settlers build illegally on state land or Palestinian land and the government supplies them with infrastructure, financial backing and legal help - even to the point of retaining privately owned Palestinian land. But illegal Arab villages, from what I can tell have never been supplied with infrastructure and that is one of the reasons they end up demolished or refused permits.

The problem with the above statement is that it is only sometimes true. Sometimes, Jewish settlers building illegally on State land are supplied with infrastructure, financial backing and legal help. Sometimes, Jewish settlers are essentially ignored. Sometimes, illegal Jewish settlements are demolished.

Ageed - it's sometimes or maybe often true, though not always. The fact that the government supports and funds illegal activities like that should be disturbing.

Sometimes, Arab villages in the Negev are provided with infrastructure and legalized. Sometimes, illegal Arab villages are demolished and the residents offered land elsewhere along with compensation (such as the Umm al-Hiran case). Sometimes, new communities are built and both Jewish people and Bedouin people buy homes and live there.

Can you provide any examples of illegal Arab villages provided with infrastructure while they were still illegal?

If the plan is to build a village there, why can't the Beduoin stay and why can't it be their village? Why must they be moved out and Jews moved in (it was specified as a Jewish settlement)? The government fought for and is still fighting for that one settlement, that is built partially on privately owned land and trying to get land swaps - but they won't do it for their Bedouin citizens?

The Bedouin pose some particular problems. Essentially, a nomadic peoples uprooted and displaced by war, and then squeezed out by increasing urbanization.

Agree.

But why, do you think the Bedouin should be able to claim land that is not theirs and build on it?

Because the Jews can, so why shouldn't the Bedouin be able to and why shouldn't they enjoy the same government support? You have often asked me why shouldn't Jews be able to, so why can't the Beduoin?

Actually, though - it's possible they have rights to some of it, I believe it's still in the courts.

 

[Boston1]

Only 7% of Jerusalem building permits go to Palestinian neighborhoods - Israel News

That article is pay-walled, so I'm not able to look at it. But one of the problems with discussing Jerusalem is the point I'm trying to make -- it doesn't differentiate between Arab Israeli citizens and Palestinian residents.

Even Palestinian residents - whether citizens or not, should have equal treatment in the permit process. Israel took Jerusalem and that includes the residents.

What I'e been reading suggests that building permits are granted in roughly the same percentages in both Arab and Jewish sections of Jerusalem. And actually Arab areas actually have been permits for a higher number of square feet. See here. So it seems like there is more going on here than news reports would suggest and someone is putting a spin on it.

I don't trust reporting from Camera (probably like you feel about B'tselem) - that's why I've been trying to use mainstream news sources when I can. I think Camera might be putting a spin on things.

I did post a longer portion of the article here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/13717976/Israel continues to demolish the homes built without permits[/URL] (unfortunately I can't access the article as I've reached the free access allotment).

I also found more examples in other articles I posted here: Israel continues to demolish the homes built without permits

It might also be of note that thousands Israeli's gave up their homes in Gaza not long ago and they did have permits. ;--)

 

[Boston1]

...

So, compare that to what happens when Jewish settlers build illegally on state land or Palestinian land and the government supplies them with infrastructure, financial backing and legal help - even to the point of retaining privately owned Palestinian land. But illegal Arab villages, from what I can tell have never been supplied with infrastructure and that is one of the reasons they end up demolished or refused permits.

The problem with the above statement is that it is only sometimes true. Sometimes, Jewish settlers building illegally on State land are supplied with infrastructure, financial backing and legal help. Sometimes, Jewish settlers are essentially ignored. Sometimes, illegal Jewish settlements are demolished.

Ageed - it's sometimes or maybe often true, though not always. The fact that the government supports and funds illegal activities like that should be disturbing.

Sometimes, Arab villages in the Negev are provided with infrastructure and legalized. Sometimes, illegal Arab villages are demolished and the residents offered land elsewhere along with compensation (such as the Umm al-Hiran case). Sometimes, new communities are built and both Jewish people and Bedouin people buy homes and live there.

Can you provide any examples of illegal Arab villages provided with infrastructure while they were still illegal?

If the plan is to build a village there, why can't the Beduoin stay and why can't it be their village? Why must they be moved out and Jews moved in? The government fought for and is still fighting for that one settlement, that is built partially on privately owned land and trying to get land swaps - but they won't do it for their Bedouin citizens?

The Bedouin pose some particular problems. Essentially, a nomadic peoples uprooted and displaced by war, and then squeezed out by increasing urbanization.

Agree.

But why, do you think the Bedouin should be able to claim land that is not theirs and build on it?

Because the Jews can, so why shouldn't the Bedouin be able to and why shouldn't they enjoy the same government support? You have often asked me why shouldn't Jews be able to, so why can't the Beduoin?

Actually, though - it's possible they have rights to some of it, I believe it's still in the courts.

Why is it Israel's responsibility to provide the Arabs with infra structure ? Its the Arabs that destroy Israeli infrastructure to the point where they can't be trusted with it.

Why can't the Arabs learn to do a few things for themselves ? Or do any Arab countries focus on infrastructure.

Here's Gazas sewage system and they've had decades and billions of dollars to set it straight.

Guaranteed it'd be the first thing I'd see fixed. So why do the Arabs leave it this way for decades ?

My bet is it was all built without permits and without proper engineering. In which case it should all be torn down except that this isn't Israel its Gaza and they're responsible for themselves.

Seems cultural to me. So again why is Israel responsible to bring the Arab Muslims up to the living standards of the civilized world ?

 

[Shusha]

Why is it Israel's responsibility to provide the Arabs with infra structure ?

It is absolutely, positively, 100% Israel's responsibility to provide for quality of life and infrastructure to ALL her citizens -- with no discrimination based on ethnicity, religion, place of origin, or anything else. Come on. What are we trying to build here? We can't -- absolutely must not -- lose our humanity and our morality in the struggle. We must be better than that.

That said, it is absolutely, positively, 100% NOT Israel's responsibility to provide quality of life and infrastructure to foreign nationals or non-citizens (those who reside in areas A and B and Gaza).

And, it is entirely Israel's responsibility to control illegal building and to legalize or demolish based on the needs of the individuals involved and on the needs of Israel as a whole. And yes, part of that is the political goal of supporting and even encouraging Jewish immigration to Israel in general and to those territories in Area C which it intends to annex (probably unilaterally since a peace treaty seems to be getting farther and farther away).

 

[Boston1]

Why is it Israel's responsibility to provide the Arabs with infra structure ?

It is absolutely, positively, 100% Israel's responsibility to provide for quality of life and infrastructure to ALL her citizens -- with no discrimination based on ethnicity, religion, place of origin, or anything else. Come on. What are we trying to build here? We can't -- absolutely must not -- lose our humanity and our morality in the struggle. We must be better than that.

That said, it is absolutely, positively, 100% NOT Israel's responsibility to provide quality of life and infrastructure to foreign nationals or non-citizens (those who reside in areas A and B and Gaza).

And, it is entirely Israel's responsibility to control illegal building and to legalize or demolish based on the needs of the individuals involved and on the needs of Israel as a whole. And yes, part of that is the political goal of supporting and even encouraging Jewish immigration to Israel in general and to those territories in Area C which it intends to annex (probably unilaterally since a peace treaty seems to be getting farther and farther away).

well yeah, but how many of the Arab Muslims refuse to become Israeli citizens ?

Most.

So why is Israel responsible for providing for non citizens ? Which we apparently agree on. I say let them provide for themselves, they're already sucking the UN dry. Why give them even more money to waste on their slanderous efforts against Israel rather than actually bringing their own neighborhoods up to speed