Israel Rescues Another Hostage

[Shusha]

Oh brother.

It is an interesting thought and not impossible. The difficulties would be many.

The Palestinians would need to make a cultural shift from an identity rooted in conflict and hatred towards Jews to something else. Changing their educational system for a start, to remove the ideology of violence while still preserving their culture, identity and history. Heavy lift.

100% agree.

The Israeli’s would have to address their own demons. The inequalities and anti-Arab bigotry in their own system, and like it or not, acknowledging that events like Nakba are part of their shared history as well.

Mostly agree. The Arabs will have to acknowledge their own accountability for the Nakba.

But the real obstacle imo? Religion. On both sides.

Agree. But not a "both sides" issue. A one side issue. Muslims will have to, at the least, share (like for real, not status quo) the Temple Mount. They will have to recognize and respect Jewish history.

 

[Lisa558]

Hamas CAN be (and largely has been) defeated by military means.

Hamas is not an idea. It's a government (now dismantled). It is a terrorist group (mostly "martyred"). It is a group of people with the capacity for violence (largely incapacitated).

The idea that needs to be defeated is the idea that Israel should or can be destroyed. That idea is only going to be defeated through close and peaceful and sustained contact with Israelis and Jews. And that can only happen under Israeli sovereignty.

We have the solution. We've had it for a hundred years. We just need the guts to implement it.

In retrospect, Israel was being too kind by allowing the so-called Palestinians to govern themselves. They elected HAMAS terrorists whose main objective is to destroy Israel.

After the ‘67 war, Israel should have moved in with total control over these people. If they had, they would have eliminated the anti-Jew brainwashing by now, but of course they wanted to appease the world, already chock-full of antisemites, by showing a more generous approach and allowing the Palestinians to govern themselves.

They will not make that mistake again. If no Arab country is willing to take these people in, then Israel needs to take over control.

 

[Lisa558]

Look. I get that you hate Muslims, ok? You hate a lot of groups. So do others. That’s part of the problem. Hate (and ignorance and fear) drives violence and whether you acknowledge it or not, the numbers don’t lie. You can pretend it isn’t a problem but it is. Talk to those affected.

It isn’t a competition.

And I’m not sure what this diversion has to do with Hamas or ethnic cleansing.

Stop focusing on painting me as a “hater,” and focus on the problem: HAMAS cockroaches that have unleashed a torrent of antisemitism, where Israel is blamed for what the monsters did. You have more disdain for ME because I won’t kowtow to the anti-Israel liberal mindset than you do for evil people.

We get that you hate Israel and have hostile attitudes toward Jews who won’t shut up about being victims of antisemitism, and that’s because you side with Muslims. As does Harris.

 

[Coyote]

Hamas CAN be (and largely has been) defeated by military means.

Hamas is not an idea. It's a government (now dismantled). It is a terrorist group (mostly "martyred"). It is a group of people with the capacity for violence (largely incapacitated).

The idea that needs to be defeated is the idea that Israel should or can be destroyed. That idea is only going to be defeated through close and peaceful and sustained contact with Israelis and Jews. And that can only happen under Israeli sovereignty.

We have the solution. We've had it for a hundred years. We just need the guts to implement it.

What I bolded, I strongly agree. When separation increased, through physical barriers, restrictions, check points etc. so did demonization and alienation. And now we have several generations who have lived that way. When you are working together, eating together, it is easier to acknowledge a shared humanity.

 

[Lisa558]

What I bolded, I strongly agree. When separation increased, through physical barriers, restrictions, check points etc. so did demonization and alienation. And now we have several generations who have lived that way. When you are working together, eating together, it is easier to acknowledge a shared humanity.

Not if one group has been taught from toddlerhood that it is admirable to want to kill Jews, and to want Israel wiped off the face of the Earth.

The problem is that you see Palestinians and Israelis as equals in terms of morals, upbringing, and attitudes. There is nowhere is the Hebrew Bible that talks about Muslims negatively. But Mohammed called Jews the offspring of rats and apes.

The two groups of people are not equals. It’s a leftist thing to see people as all equals, which is why we get the “both sides do it” remark all the time.

 

[Coyote]

Not if one group has been taught from toddlerhood that it is admirable to want to kill Jews, and to want Israel wiped off the face of the Earth.

It is easier to combat and prevent those beliefs when people interact more.

The problem is that you see Palestinians and Israelis as equals in terms of morals, upbringing, and attitudes. There is nowhere is the Hebrew Bible that talks about Muslims negatively. But Mohammed called Jews the offspring of rats and apes.

When it comes to religion there is a lot contradiction, violence, misogyny and acts of hatred against other communities, often called for or done by God. There is a lot of evil done in the name of God. When you have worldwide religions you also have cultural differences among followers.

It is also worth noting that Islam did not exist until several thousand years after the Hebrew Bible was written.

I doubt anyone was psychic enough to write about Muslims. I am quite sure my Muslim (Bangladeshi) coworker is as “moral” as any Christian or a Jew.

The two groups of people are not equals. It’s a leftist thing to see people as all equals, which is why we get the “both sides do it” remark all the time.

Woah…so equality is now “leftist”. There is too much to unpack here so I’ll leave it.

 

[Matted Joybeard]

The least odious solution is a sovereign Israel. It's going to suck for 50 years. For everyone. But 50 years from now, the Gazan Arabs of Israel will be proud of their nation in the same way that Arab Israelis are now. They will be fighting for it, instead of fighting against it.

And maybe, one day, after many decades of peace, if they still want it, the people of Gaza can secede from Israel and form their own state.

How does Israel absorb the Palestinians of Gaza as citizens? What happens to the West Bank?

 

[Mac-7]

Look. I get that you hate Muslims, ok? You hate a lot of groups. So do others. That’s part of the problem. Hate (and ignorance and fear) drives violence and whether you acknowledge it or not, the numbers don’t lie. You can pretend it isn’t a problem but it is. Talk to those affected.

It isn’t a competition.

And I’m not sure what this diversion has to do with Hamas or ethnic cleansing.

I dont hate muslims

But I’m not ready for the submit-or-die thing either

So I prefer Muslims in the old country instead of here