Issues of morality shuts Christians up.

[Buford]

I am not foolish enough to believe in fantasy, miracles and magic.
I do not insult Jesus by tying his name to the genocidal S O B of the O. T.

He might think it good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty but Jesus was not that immoral even as the writers did mess Jesus up by making him preach of that immoral construct called hell.

Regards
DL

Is there any part of the Bible you believe to be true?

True as in make sense? Sure.

Things like this that destroys your notions of Jesus and his sacrifice to himself.

Ezekiel 18:20
The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Regards
DL

So it has to make sense to you to be true. I see. You've put yourself in quite a lofty position.

 

[Buford]

Is there any part of the Bible you believe to be true?

Only the parts in the OT where he thinks God did horrible things.

Not even those but I do argue those events to try to show those who believe it that it was immoral.

Only a fool would believe anything literally in a book that begins with a talking snake and ends with a seven headed monster.

Regards
DL

Einstein believed there is an INTELLIGENCE of the univervse that dwarfs anything of man's. Do you think you're smarter than Einstein?

 

[koshergrl]

Issues of morality shuts Christians up.

I know I have done well in an O. P. when Christians run from a discussion.

I wrote these two posts and got almost no response. Not a usual thing for my posts. This tells me that I hit the nail right on the head and Christians have no apologetics to refute my claim.

==========================

If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.

TED Blog | The real difference between liberals and conservatives: Jonathan Haidt on TED.com

God does not follow the first rule at all.

The bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or sin.

This shows that what many thinks is our number one moral value was completely ignored by God.

Is God immoral or has man gotten morality wrong?

If God was right, then are we to believe that fathers are to bury their children instead of the way people think in that children should bury their parents?

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.”

On earth as it is in heaven.

If you had God’s power to set the conditions for atonement, would you step up yourself or would you send your child to die?

=============================

God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

Nothing but the blood? - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott1...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_f...eature=related

I think that the notion that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty perpetrator is immoral. Be it a willing sacrifice as some believe with Jesus or unwilling victim.

I also think that God, who has a plethora of other options, would have come up with a moral way instead of an immoral and barbaric human sacrifice.

I agree with scriptures say that we are all responsible for our own righteousness as well as our own iniquity and that God cannot be bribed by sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

I believe as I do because I believe that the first rule of morality is harm/care of children.

TED Blog | The real difference between liberals and conservatives: Jonathan Haidt on TED.com

Do you agree that the notion of substitutionary atonement is immoral and that God’s first principle of morality is hare/harm and that this would prevent him from demanding the death of his son?

==============================

This lack of opposition to the premise given tells me that Christians may actually be more moral than what I give them credit for. They do not walk their talk in these cases and that is a plus.

Seems Christians actually recognize good morals even if they do not preach them.
I thank Christians for confirming my view that they are just following tradition, dogma and culture while not really following their God. Thank God for that. Any sane man would reject the bible God.

Regards
DL

You did well in a thread and Christians fled?

Pfffftttt...

 

[newpolitics]

Do you really expect to have a discussion with such a condescending attitude?

Because he opposes your religious beliefs using logic he is condescending? That's a good standard.

He is not being condescending. He is being logical and pointing out the inherent contradictions in christian theology, of which there are myriad and make belief or faith impossible to any who actually pay attention and don't just follow blindly.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah, cuz everybody knows all Christians are stupid.

He was condescending and so are you. Plus you're just assholes besides.

 

[newpolitics]

Yeah, cuz everybody knows all Christians are stupid.

He was condescending and so are you. Plus you're just assholes besides.

How eloquent your words are Koshrgrl. Truly, you astound me at every turn with your amazing logical abilities... I never said all Christians are stupid, so don't put words in my mouth you little troll. Nor do I believe everyone thinks they are, especially considering the majority of people in this country are christian, which makes your little comment nonsensical. It is stupid to follow anything or anyone blindly. Some actually really investigate their beliefs and are still able to hold them. Some investigate their beliefs and realize they can no longer believe and become atheistic. The majority however, just go along with the crowd like sheep, judging everyone else along the way, and it is clearly visible to everyone else who isn't part of the herd. Intelligence has little to do with beliefs.

 

[newpolitics]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtY4wWNZ7-Y&feature=related]Christianity is a Self-Contradictory Proposition - ( The Atheist Experience ) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[koshergrl]

So according to you....only people who pay attention and don't follow blindly can be Christian.



Because "belief or (is) impossible to any who actually pay attention and don't just follow blindly."

So it sounds to me like the only people who believe are those who don't pay attention, and who follow blindly...aka they're just too dumb to understand.

I don't have to put words in your mouth, bigot. You do a better job of incriminating yourself than I can.

You're an arrogant and elitist pos who thinks you have cornered the market on logic.

 

[koshergrl]

Christianity is a Self-Contradictory Proposition - ( The Atheist Experience ) - YouTube

Yes, I'm sure those two gomers are a lot more logical than the Chudnovsky bros.

 

[koshergrl]

And I'm sure you're less likely to follow blindly than, say, me, who gets to listen to idiots like you proclaim how dumb and brainwashed Christians are about a hundred times a day.

Tell me..why is it that atheists feel it's so important to ridicule the beliefs of Christians?

 

[newpolitics]

So according to you....only people who pay attention and don't follow blindly can be Christian.



Because "belief or (is) impossible to any who actually pay attention and don't just follow blindly."

So it sounds to me like the only people who believe are those who don't pay attention, and who follow blindly...aka they're just too dumb to understand.

I don't have to put words in your mouth, bigot. You do a better job of incriminating yourself than I can.

You're an arrogant and elitist pos who thinks you have cornered the market on logic.

You don't know how to read and I'm tired of correcting you. Your interpretation of what I just wrote is astoundingly inaccurate. It's no wonder you're a conservative and I assume, a Christian. You interpret things in whichever way is emotionally satisfying to you, irrespective of reality, so that you can blast those you don't like. That's called being a moron. I am truly offended by your inability to even read my posts and follow them logically.



You are the one concluding Christians are too dumb to understand the bible. The bible and its mythology are intended to deceive, and when combined with a supportive social group of the church and ministers who make claims to its veracity, ESPECIALLY when inculcated from birth, faith merely becomes a product of indoctrination, not intelligence. I have seen some extraordinarily intelligent people as christians, and don't believe for a second that a lack of intelligence is requisite for faith. I stated explicitly that belief and intelligence are not connected, yet you interpret that to mean that intelligence and belief are connected? Wow. You do need to learn to read. Stop making errant conclusions and attacking strawmen that you build. Having a logical debate with you is impossible, because you are simply too emotional.

 

[newpolitics]

Christianity is a Self-Contradictory Proposition - ( The Atheist Experience ) - YouTube

Yes, I'm sure those two gomers are a lot more logical than the Chudnovsky bros.

I am willing to bet they are, especially Matt Dillahunty (the one on the right), who will wreck any apologist in a debate, and often does, as demonstrated on this show, and in real debate.

Being that the video is 18 minutes and you responded in five, you obviously didn't even watch it, so don't comment. It's meaningless, as are most of your responses, since you never read the actual posts.

 

[koshergrl]

I watched enough of it. I don't waste a lot of my time on dolts. I'm not an anti-Christian fanatic, in other words.

 

[newpolitics]

And I'm sure you're less likely to follow blindly than, say, me, who gets to listen to idiots like you proclaim how dumb and brainwashed Christians are about a hundred times a day.

Tell me..why is it that atheists feel it's so important to ridicule the beliefs of Christians?

Because Christians believe something that influences their actions, such as trying to tell school boards that evolution should not be taught, or infringing on women's rights to choose, but mostly, because they vote, and usually only for other Christians, which is a huge problem today with the conservative party. The Christian Right has hijacked the conservative party in a way that is deplorable and they have steered the national discussion towards things that don't matter, and made campaigns about topics that are absurd. It is necessary to attack to their beliefs, because they don't represent truth in any demonstrable way. There is zero evidence for any claims about the Christian god, or any god, yet people act is if he is real, and that everyone else should believe. That is really annoying, and so they are only getting what they deserve. If Christians would be a little more humble and not so obnoxious, perhaps they could be spared from such scrutiny, but they instead wish to stick their head into everyone's business, because they believe they are entitled too because they believe they are morally superior, which is truly ironic. Christians are the least moral people who simply pray away their sins and never actually deal with themselves. Pray away the gay? Give me a break. Christians are laughable in this regard. You demand this respect, yet give none.

 

[MaryL]

I will say that that there is little difference between liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans. Both are wealthy, and both are neurotic. Liberals embrace their neurosis, and conservatives reject it. Otherwise they are pretty much the same bunch rich of jerks. One thing that unites THEM is wealth, income and protecting their status quo. Religion and Atheism are pretty much the same thing. Both are neurotically convinced that they know with ABSOLUTE certainty their view of cosmology . Nobody knows IF there is a GOD let alone organize a belief system based on presumptions of what GOD'S will is.

 

[koshergrl]

Arguing to non points. I don't demand respect from anyone. I have never gotten respect from atheists, who bestow it upon no one except each other and who assume they are the ultimate arbiters of what is worthy of respect and what is not. Of course they operate from the premise that only THEIR logic and THEIR opinions are intelligent, worthy of respect, and carefully considered..and only THEIR opinions should be broadcast to all, and only decisions that come from their own faith system of non-belief have any validity or right to exist or be acted upon.
Arrogant, ignorant, hypocrite and elitist = atheist.

 

[newpolitics]

Arguing to non points. I don't demand respect from anyone. I have never gotten respect from atheists, who bestow it upon no one except each other and who assume they are the ultimate arbiters of what is worthy of respect and what is not. Of course they operate from the premise that only THEIR logic and THEIR opinions are intelligent, worthy of respect, and carefully considered..and only THEIR opinions should be broadcast to all, and only decisions that come from their own faith system of non-belief have any validity or right to exist or be acted upon.
Arrogant, ignorant, hypocrite and elitist = atheist.

Atheism is not a faith system. It is a lack of faith. Get it right. Does it take faith to believe that bigfoot isn't real? no. It is a lack of faith. Faith is what you need when you have zero evidence, which is the case with all religions and supernatural claims.

All atheism is, is a rejection of god claims made by theists. it is a defensive position that does not assert there is necessarily no god with certainty, so you are wrong. Theists have failed to meet their burden of proof in demonstrating a god exists, therefore belief and faith is simply unjustified. That is the atheist position. NOTHING MORE. Again, your use of a strawman is egregious koshergrl. You simply have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[koshergrl]

When you go out of your way to attack and ridicule Christians, when you make it a point and see it as your mission to "convert" them, you're adhering to a faith.

You get it right. You can and will treat me like an idiot, I'm sure, because that's what bigots do..they work from the premise that they are superior, though there is absolutely no evidence that they are. But the truth of the matter is, I'm not stupid, I don't follow blindly, I am perfectly logical....and I'm still a Christian.

 

[newpolitics]

I will say that that there is little difference between liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans. Both are wealthy, and both are neurotic. Liberals embrace their neurosis, and conservatives reject it. Otherwise they are pretty much the same bunch rich of jerks. One thing that unites THEM is wealth, income and protecting their status quo. Religion and Atheism are pretty much the same thing. Both are neurotically convinced that they know with ABSOLUTE certainty their view of cosmology . Nobody knows IF there is a GOD let alone organize a belief system based on presumptions of what GOD'S will is.

I don't claim to know anything with absolute certainty, including the non-existence of god. I simply believe it is an unjustifiable belief given any lack of real evidence. It is possible there is a god, but I see no reason to believe that. Only one possibility among two can be true, and both are mutually exclusive. Either a god exists, or it doesn't. It can not be both, so pandering to a sort of relativism doesn't get you anywhere. Atheists don't necessarily make the assertion that a god does not exist. We reject claims that a god does exist. The burden of proof is on theists who assert that one does exist. Some atheists may make the assertion that no god exists, but that is idiotic and nearly impossible to prove. This is why that assertion is generally not made by atheists. We simply do not believe the claims made by theists that a god does exist. Theist are making a positive claim. We are rejecting that claim. That is atheism. It is not a religion. It does not require faith. I wish christians would stop saying that. It is really annoying.

 

[newpolitics]

When you go out of your way to attack and ridicule Christians, when you make it a point and see it as your mission to "convert" them, you're adhering to a faith.

You get it right. You can and will treat me like an idiot, I'm sure, because that's what bigots do..they work from the premise that they are superior, though there is absolutely no evidence that they are. But the truth of the matter is, I'm not stupid, I don't follow blindly, I am perfectly logical....and I'm still a Christian.

Stop throwing around that word bigot because your conservative compadres tell you to. You are drinking the cool-aid. Going out of my way is not what I would call this, first of all. I am responding to theists again, asserting a reality without evidence, on this board. Even if I was going out of my way to attack and ridicule Christians, and even if I was trying to convert them, that does mean I am adhering to a "faith," as it is defined. I am simply challenging beliefs in others that are unfounded and that EFFECT ME. We all live in this country, and it is those with unfounded beliefs who wish to push them onto the rest of us. How biased are you towards your faith that you can't see this? Athiests are in the minority here. Christians are the vast majority. You can play with semantics all you like, saying I have faith, that doesn't make your statements true.