It just dawned on me? God didnt create sin

[ABikerSailor]

You know, a lot of people have funny ideas about original sin and what it was.

Sorry, but in the Hebrew (the original language of the OT), it says that God had tasked Lucifer with tempting Adam and Eve. Lucifer did his job, only he did it a little too well, because Eve took the apple, gave it to Adam, and both had a bite. God shows back up and notices they are different. He then asks them about the apple, and why they did it, and Adam blames Eve, Eve blames the serpent, and neither of them take responsibility for their actions.

The original sin was not taking responsibility for ones own actions and trying to blame someone else. If Adam had said he was curious and that is why he took a bite, then apologized and took responsibility for his actions, as well as Eve, I'm pretty sure the world would have turned out a whole lot different.

As far as the 10 Commandments? Those are there to ensure the survival of the human race.

I read Hebrews, where?

It's in the book of Genesis, in the Hebrew Torah. You have to read the creation story and Adam and Eve getting kicked out in the original Hebrew language, and it helps if you have a Torah scholar to teach you through it. Learned that on "Hidden in the Hebrew" with Uri Harel on God's Learning Channel. He was a Torah scholar that taught what was in the OT, as well as some of the subtle understandings of their book.

Incidentally, did you know that the first verse of Genesis in the Torah doesn't say "in the beginning", it says "in A beginning", hinting that this might not be the first time God has created the world. Hebrews believe it has happened several times before.

Which Torah? In English????


Yeah and also in the Torah, English it says lilyth not even was the first woman

Actually, it says in there that Adam and Eve were created together, at the same time, but then, another verse later says that God saw Adam was alone and decided to make a helpmate for him by using his rib. If Adam and Eve were created together, why did God need to create another one? The KJV is kinda twisted up on this.

However....................in the Torah it says that Adam and Eve were created together, but they had a disagreement about equality, as Eve thought that because she was created at the same time, she was his equal. Adam didn't think so, so Eve uttered the secret name of God and disappeared. For that, God punished her and made her Lillith, the mother of demons. Then, later, when he saw how lonely Adam was without her, he created another Eve, this time using his rib.

No it doesn't Genesis 1:17 it was another woman I just used the name lilyth from Jewish folklore

Hey, don't blame me for the story, blame the dude I learned it from. Uri Harel, a Torah scholar who has a show on God's Learning Channel called "Hidden in the Hebrew".

That's what I was after, was it in Hebrew or English..

I read all the English version s

You gotta get a Torah that is written in Hebrew. And, like I said, it helps to have a Torah scholar walk you through it, because they understand the subtle things that are hidden in the Hebrew language.

Hey, if you want to do further research, here is a site that has scholars and papers from damn near every religion on the planet, and I think you might be able to find what you are looking for here. They have a large section on Judaism.

Home - Sacred-Texts ISTA - Internet Sacred Text Archive

Internet Sacred Text Archive - Quiet place in cyberspace devoted to religious tolerance and scholarship.

www.sacred-texts.com

 

[Wyatt earp]

You know, a lot of people have funny ideas about original sin and what it was.

Sorry, but in the Hebrew (the original language of the OT), it says that God had tasked Lucifer with tempting Adam and Eve. Lucifer did his job, only he did it a little too well, because Eve took the apple, gave it to Adam, and both had a bite. God shows back up and notices they are different. He then asks them about the apple, and why they did it, and Adam blames Eve, Eve blames the serpent, and neither of them take responsibility for their actions.

The original sin was not taking responsibility for ones own actions and trying to blame someone else. If Adam had said he was curious and that is why he took a bite, then apologized and took responsibility for his actions, as well as Eve, I'm pretty sure the world would have turned out a whole lot different.

As far as the 10 Commandments? Those are there to ensure the survival of the human race.

I read Hebrews, where?

It's in the book of Genesis, in the Hebrew Torah. You have to read the creation story and Adam and Eve getting kicked out in the original Hebrew language, and it helps if you have a Torah scholar to teach you through it. Learned that on "Hidden in the Hebrew" with Uri Harel on God's Learning Channel. He was a Torah scholar that taught what was in the OT, as well as some of the subtle understandings of their book.

Incidentally, did you know that the first verse of Genesis in the Torah doesn't say "in the beginning", it says "in A beginning", hinting that this might not be the first time God has created the world. Hebrews believe it has happened several times before.

Which Torah? In English????


Yeah and also in the Torah, English it says lilyth not even was the first woman

Actually, it says in there that Adam and Eve were created together, at the same time, but then, another verse later says that God saw Adam was alone and decided to make a helpmate for him by using his rib. If Adam and Eve were created together, why did God need to create another one? The KJV is kinda twisted up on this.

However....................in the Torah it says that Adam and Eve were created together, but they had a disagreement about equality, as Eve thought that because she was created at the same time, she was his equal. Adam didn't think so, so Eve uttered the secret name of God and disappeared. For that, God punished her and made her Lillith, the mother of demons. Then, later, when he saw how lonely Adam was without her, he created another Eve, this time using his rib.

No it doesn't Genesis 1:17 it was another woman I just used the name lilyth from Jewish folklore

Hey, don't blame me for the story, blame the dude I learned it from. Uri Harel, a Torah scholar who has a show on God's Learning Channel called "Hidden in the Hebrew".

That's what I was after, was it in Hebrew or English..

I read all the English version s

You gotta get a Torah that is written in Hebrew. And, like I said, it helps to have a Torah scholar walk you through it, because they understand the subtle things that are hidden in the Hebrew language.

Hey, if you want to do further research, here is a site that has scholars and papers from damn near every religion on the planet, and I think you might be able to find what you are looking for here. They have a large section on Judaism.

Home - Sacred-Texts ISTA - Internet Sacred Text Archive

Internet Sacred Text Archive - Quiet place in cyberspace devoted to religious tolerance and scholarship.

www.sacred-texts.com

That's another reason why I wanted to become a preist to learn hebrew and latin

 

[Wyatt earp]

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

God made the rules

How is bringing angels a sin? God did much worse things than Lucifer ever did. God killed innocent children, puppies and kittens. God killed the first born of Egypt.

What did Lucifer ever do that is comparable?

Think he brought the fallin angeles with him to Hade.

Then he inticed Eve to sin. He killed Job's family.

Btw what the heck was Noah's wifes name?

What is so bad about tempting Eve to commit the horrible sin of eating forbidden (oh the horror)

Vs God flooding the earth and killing innocent people and animals?

Another thing how could it be a sin?

Adam and Eve was born without knowledge. Only commands from God..

They had the brain knowledge of a stupid beagle

 

[barn sour]

''sinning'' is ''natural....everyone ''''sins'''..we can't help it = natural

Actually, we can help it. We just choose not to.

Anything you can't help isn't a sin.

so, as I've asked numerous times and just asked Skull, how come males commit 85% of murders? how come females choose so ''wisely''?
--also--to add even more numbers to the overall equation/etc--how come blacks commit murder at four times the rate of whites?

Those statistics have nothing to do with having free will. You should probably look at the differences between the sexes and their rolls in society if you want an explanation of those rates.

hahahhahaha--sure--forget the facts-----hahahahahahahahahahah
..you--also- DON'T want to answer it because it verifies what I said

You're trying to get an answer to why oranges don't rot in the sun as quickly as bananas do. So laugh away and don't give a thought to how dumb your question is.

o--and another thing .....please answer this [ if you are not afraid--like with the other question ]
..how come YOU sin, if it's so easy to choose not to?

When, pray tell, did I ever say it was easy to choose not to sin? Especially considering the fact that to even look at someone with lust in our heart is a sin? We have free will. That we are able to choose doesn't mean we will always choose wisely. Free will simply means we are not just robots.

you said we have FREE will....free meaning it's easy ....also you said '''''Actually, we can help it. We just choose not to.''''!! we can help it--but we choose not to!!!!!???? that's very interesting
...WHY do we choose not to??....it should be '''easy'''....I won't lust/be jealous/etc..so we would rather sin, than not sin....!!????
AND you're not answering the question--again!! how come you sin?..you know it's wrong, but you still do it!!!! why?

....you people are afraid that we are more like animals than you want to believe

...if it's not easy = no free will !!!!

Tell me. Can you chose to sit in the chair or stand on the chair and jump off? It's an easy choice, right? You see it's raining. You can choose to stay in the house or go outside and play in the rain. We can choose not to go out in the rain, right?

We have many choices in life.

Animals vs. Man - Animals have a free will only within their instinctual boundaries. They have no conscience, only instinct. Surely you see the difference?

The question? How come I sin? Well, I am no longer under the law, so "sin" is not accounted to me nor does it have power over me. Which, of course, is not the answer you're looking for.

Why do people sin? Because they are weak human beings. We were created to be one with God. We sin because we are outside of God. Once we are saved, we have the Spirit dwelling in us and sin no longer has dominion over us. It is that power within that gives us the strength to resist the temptations to sin. Sin no longer has the power over us that we thought it did.

........your analogies are not analogies at all = playing in the rain and jumping off a chair --AND those are not natural like eating/sex/anger
....you made the Freudian Slip, by saying it's not easy = something is hindering the choice
....also, you mention god---as I've stated many times on USMB, there is no god, so your answer is without credibility or fact....I give facts [ murder rates/etc ]

Human nature is hindering our choice as to whether to obey our conscience or not. The LUSTS of the eyes, the Lusts of the FLESH, and the PRIDE of life. That has nothing....zero....zilch....nada to do with your statistics, because all those statistics are referring to human beings. Are they not?

Whether you've stated many times "there is no god" means nothing to me.

Scripture tells me the FOOL has said in his heart there is no god. That does tell me something, though.

hahahahhahaah = you have nothing to dispute my facts
...sure, you don't want to deal with facts, you want to deal with fairytales..
..scriptures = opinions and standard man made fairytales
...so you claim god says this/etc --but you can't prove there is a god = you have nothing

Your "facts" cannot be disputed when explained by free will as you claim, and as I have tried to explain to you. Your facts, instead, are explained by the differences between men and women, their ingrained make up, and their standing in society. If you want to have a discussion on those facts, you'd best drop the "free will" stipulation.

Another argument free will vs. predessentation...


We have been arguing this for 1700 years

Predestination has nothing to do with the differences between men and women.

 

[barn sour]

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

God made the rules

How is bringing angels a sin? God did much worse things than Lucifer ever did. God killed innocent children, puppies and kittens. God killed the first born of Egypt.

What did Lucifer ever do that is comparable?

Think he brought the fallin angeles with him to Hade.

Then he inticed Eve to sin. He killed Job's family.

Btw what the heck was Noah's wifes name?

What is so bad about tempting Eve to commit the horrible sin of eating forbidden (oh the horror)

Vs God flooding the earth and killing innocent people and animals?

Another thing how could it be a sin?

Adam and Eve was born without knowledge. Only commands from God..

They had the brain knowledge of a stupid beagle

You must be joking.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Why not? Why would you unnecessarily put your families life in danger.

So is it self defense or isnt it? Get the story straight first.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Another argument free will vs. predessentation...

But now we know free will is an illusion.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

God made the rules

How is bringing angels a sin? God did much worse things than Lucifer ever did. God killed innocent children, puppies and kittens. God killed the first born of Egypt.

What did Lucifer ever do that is comparable?

Think he brought the fallin angeles with him to Hade.

Then he inticed Eve to sin. He killed Job's family.

Btw what the heck was Noah's wifes name?

What is so bad about tempting Eve to commit the horrible sin of eating forbidden (oh the horror)

Vs God flooding the earth and killing innocent people and animals?

Another thing how could it be a sin?

Adam and Eve was born without knowledge. Only commands from God..

They had the brain knowledge of a stupid beagle

You must be joking.

Obvious no?

What the hell was the tree of knowledge than?

Hell the two beagle pups didn't even know they were naked

 

[Wyatt earp]

You know, a lot of people have funny ideas about original sin and what it was.

Sorry, but in the Hebrew (the original language of the OT), it says that God had tasked Lucifer with tempting Adam and Eve. Lucifer did his job, only he did it a little too well, because Eve took the apple, gave it to Adam, and both had a bite. God shows back up and notices they are different. He then asks them about the apple, and why they did it, and Adam blames Eve, Eve blames the serpent, and neither of them take responsibility for their actions.

The original sin was not taking responsibility for ones own actions and trying to blame someone else. If Adam had said he was curious and that is why he took a bite, then apologized and took responsibility for his actions, as well as Eve, I'm pretty sure the world would have turned out a whole lot different.

As far as the 10 Commandments? Those are there to ensure the survival of the human race.

I read Hebrews, where?

It's in the book of Genesis, in the Hebrew Torah. You have to read the creation story and Adam and Eve getting kicked out in the original Hebrew language, and it helps if you have a Torah scholar to teach you through it. Learned that on "Hidden in the Hebrew" with Uri Harel on God's Learning Channel. He was a Torah scholar that taught what was in the OT, as well as some of the subtle understandings of their book.

Incidentally, did you know that the first verse of Genesis in the Torah doesn't say "in the beginning", it says "in A beginning", hinting that this might not be the first time God has created the world. Hebrews believe it has happened several times before.

Which Torah? In English????


Yeah and also in the Torah, English it says lilyth not even was the first woman

Actually, it says in there that Adam and Eve were created together, at the same time, but then, another verse later says that God saw Adam was alone and decided to make a helpmate for him by using his rib. If Adam and Eve were created together, why did God need to create another one? The KJV is kinda twisted up on this.

However....................in the Torah it says that Adam and Eve were created together, but they had a disagreement about equality, as Eve thought that because she was created at the same time, she was his equal. Adam didn't think so, so Eve uttered the secret name of God and disappeared. For that, God punished her and made her Lillith, the mother of demons. Then, later, when he saw how lonely Adam was without her, he created another Eve, this time using his rib.

No it doesn't Genesis 1:17 it was another woman I just used the name lilyth from Jewish folklore

Hey, don't blame me for the story, blame the dude I learned it from. Uri Harel, a Torah scholar who has a show on God's Learning Channel called "Hidden in the Hebrew".

That's what I was after, was it in Hebrew or English..

I read all the English version s

You gotta get a Torah that is written in Hebrew. And, like I said, it helps to have a Torah scholar walk you through it, because they understand the subtle things that are hidden in the Hebrew language.

Hey, if you want to do further research, here is a site that has scholars and papers from damn near every religion on the planet, and I think you might be able to find what you are looking for here. They have a large section on Judaism.

Home - Sacred-Texts ISTA - Internet Sacred Text Archive

Internet Sacred Text Archive - Quiet place in cyberspace devoted to religious tolerance and scholarship.

www.sacred-texts.com

I was just thinking if in the Hebrew Torah if it said something different in the beginning then John didn't plagerize because in his book it also starts off with in the beginning..

Note new phone have to get used to it

 

[toobfreak]

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

Bingo. Sin isn't a creation of God, it is a creation of those who fall from or stray from the path of god. That is the definition of sin.

 

[barn sour]

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

God made the rules

How is bringing angels a sin? God did much worse things than Lucifer ever did. God killed innocent children, puppies and kittens. God killed the first born of Egypt.

What did Lucifer ever do that is comparable?

Think he brought the fallin angeles with him to Hade.

Then he inticed Eve to sin. He killed Job's family.

Btw what the heck was Noah's wifes name?

What is so bad about tempting Eve to commit the horrible sin of eating forbidden (oh the horror)

Vs God flooding the earth and killing innocent people and animals?

Another thing how could it be a sin?

Adam and Eve was born without knowledge. Only commands from God..

They had the brain knowledge of a stupid beagle

You must be joking.

Obvious no?

What the hell was the tree of knowledge than?

Hell the two beagle pups didn't even know they were naked

The tree of knowledge concerned the knowledge of good and evil. Their conscience was awakened and they realized they were naked. Innocence is not ignorance.

 

[barn sour]

Another argument free will vs. predessentation...

But now we know free will is an illusion.

Oh, then you're just a robot unable to choose anything?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

God made the rules

How is bringing angels a sin? God did much worse things than Lucifer ever did. God killed innocent children, puppies and kittens. God killed the first born of Egypt.

What did Lucifer ever do that is comparable?

Think he brought the fallin angeles with him to Hade.

Then he inticed Eve to sin. He killed Job's family.

Btw what the heck was Noah's wifes name?

What is so bad about tempting Eve to commit the horrible sin of eating forbidden (oh the horror)

Vs God flooding the earth and killing innocent people and animals?

Another thing how could it be a sin?

Adam and Eve was born without knowledge. Only commands from God..

They had the brain knowledge of a stupid beagle

You must be joking.

Obvious no?

What the hell was the tree of knowledge than?

Hell the two beagle pups didn't even know they were naked

The tree of knowledge concerned the knowledge of good and evil. Their conscience was awakened and they realized they were naked. Innocence is not ignorance.

Do you ever think? You made my point

 

[Wyatt earp]

Another argument free will vs. predessentation...

But now we know free will is an illusion.

Oh, then you're just a robot unable to choose anything?

Did Jesus know Judas was going to betray him ?

Of course he did.

 

[barn sour]

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

God made the rules

How is bringing angels a sin? God did much worse things than Lucifer ever did. God killed innocent children, puppies and kittens. God killed the first born of Egypt.

What did Lucifer ever do that is comparable?

Think he brought the fallin angeles with him to Hade.

Then he inticed Eve to sin. He killed Job's family.

Btw what the heck was Noah's wifes name?

What is so bad about tempting Eve to commit the horrible sin of eating forbidden (oh the horror)

Vs God flooding the earth and killing innocent people and animals?

Another thing how could it be a sin?

Adam and Eve was born without knowledge. Only commands from God..

They had the brain knowledge of a stupid beagle

You must be joking.

Obvious no?

What the hell was the tree of knowledge than?

Hell the two beagle pups didn't even know they were naked

The tree of knowledge concerned the knowledge of good and evil. Their conscience was awakened and they realized they were naked. Innocence is not ignorance.

Do you ever think? You made my point

I think quite often. So your claim is that since I haven't murdered anyone, then I'm not as smart as someone who has?

Why did being naked become something to be ashamed of?
Are you somehow smarter because you wear clothes?

Think on these things.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

God made the rules

How is bringing angels a sin? God did much worse things than Lucifer ever did. God killed innocent children, puppies and kittens. God killed the first born of Egypt.

What did Lucifer ever do that is comparable?

Think he brought the fallin angeles with him to Hade.

Then he inticed Eve to sin. He killed Job's family.

Btw what the heck was Noah's wifes name?

What is so bad about tempting Eve to commit the horrible sin of eating forbidden (oh the horror)

Vs God flooding the earth and killing innocent people and animals?

Another thing how could it be a sin?

Adam and Eve was born without knowledge. Only commands from God..

They had the brain knowledge of a stupid beagle

You must be joking.

Obvious no?

What the hell was the tree of knowledge than?

Hell the two beagle pups didn't even know they were naked

The tree of knowledge concerned the knowledge of good and evil. Their conscience was awakened and they realized they were naked. Innocence is not ignorance.

Do you ever think? You made my point

I think quite often. So your claim is that since I haven't murdered anyone, then I'm not as smart as someone who has?

Why did being naked become something to be ashamed of?
Are you somehow smarter because you wear clothes?

Think on these things.

You had school no since kindergarten?

They where created at least 14 years old with no knowledge of good and evil.

 

[barn sour]

Another argument free will vs. predessentation...

But now we know free will is an illusion.

Oh, then you're just a robot unable to choose anything?

Did Jesus know Judas was going to betray him ?

Of course he did.

Judas was a big part of God's plan. He was the son of perdition, and Jesus chose him for the very purpose of betraying Him. Don't forget that God can see into the hearts of man.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Another argument free will vs. predessentation...

But now we know free will is an illusion.

Oh, then you're just a robot unable to choose anything?

Did Jesus know Judas was going to betray him ?

Of course he did.

Judas was a big part of God's plan. He was the son of perdition, and Jesus chose him for the very purpose of betraying Him. Don't forget that God can see into the hearts of man.

Thanks for your input, I love searching for the truth.

 

[barn sour]

Nor was Eve the first, it was Lucifer an angel who did the first sin in heaven, when he brought other fallen angels with him

God made the rules

How is bringing angels a sin? God did much worse things than Lucifer ever did. God killed innocent children, puppies and kittens. God killed the first born of Egypt.

What did Lucifer ever do that is comparable?

Think he brought the fallin angeles with him to Hade.

Then he inticed Eve to sin. He killed Job's family.

Btw what the heck was Noah's wifes name?

What is so bad about tempting Eve to commit the horrible sin of eating forbidden (oh the horror)

Vs God flooding the earth and killing innocent people and animals?

Another thing how could it be a sin?

Adam and Eve was born without knowledge. Only commands from God..

They had the brain knowledge of a stupid beagle

You must be joking.

Obvious no?

What the hell was the tree of knowledge than?

Hell the two beagle pups didn't even know they were naked

The tree of knowledge concerned the knowledge of good and evil. Their conscience was awakened and they realized they were naked. Innocence is not ignorance.

Do you ever think? You made my point

I think quite often. So your claim is that since I haven't murdered anyone, then I'm not as smart as someone who has?

Why did being naked become something to be ashamed of?
Are you somehow smarter because you wear clothes?

Think on these things.

You had school no since kindergarten?

They where created at least 14 years old with no knowledge of good and evil.

God said they were "good" and you claim they were no smarter than dogs?

 

[Dragonlady]

Sin was created when God said "Do this and don't do that". He made it a rigged system when he created beings that often find "sins" to be pleasurable. The creation story has it right in there where he baited Adam and Eve with the fruit of a tree and then created a serpent to tempt them. It was a set-up from the beginning.

Ah yes, but God gave some of US intelligence that we are supposed to use, instead of acting like animals (like a liberal) and seeking pleasures unnaturally. That is where God gave US a choice, follow Lucifer or follow the 10 Commandments. Do you follow Lucifer?

Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals

Opening page - Dedication
“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history... the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”

Why else do you see liberals constantly attacking the morals of good men who want to keep the Commandments out where people can see them?

Boy what a convoluted word salad to tie liberalism, which did not exist in Biblical times, to Satan. Too bad you failed utterly.

Where in the 10 Commandments does it say anything about "unnatural pleasures"? Everything in the 10 Commandments is about showing respect for God and your neighbours. No lying, no stealing, no murder, no adultery, no jealousy. Jesus distilled all 10 of them down to 2 - Love the Lord thy God, and love one another. Again, nothing about "unnatural pleasures".

The problem with you fire and brimstone, eye for an eye types is that your belief system is a complete denial of Jesus teaching of love and foregiveness. Fundamentalist Christianity seems to be structured more on authoritarism and misogyny than the word of God. As He died on the cross Jesus begged for foregiveness for His tormentors.