It's Time To Hate White People Month Again

[mudwhistle]

Mudwhistle, I'll accept that you aren't a bigot. I'm still unclear why you feel that teaching black history will aggravate whites in any way. Mebbe if you could be a wee bit clearer on what your concern is, it'd help.

Well, since I never said it was an aggravation to whites I haven't a clue what you're problem is.

Fact is I was very clear. The problem isn't what whites will do, it's what blacks will do.

Am I clear????

No, dear. I'm not asking you to clarify just to be a pain in the ass. I really don't understand. How will teaching black history change the behavior of blacks in some offensive way?

Are you just trying to be a pain in the ass or are you really this ignorant?

Teaching Black History isn't the problem. The subjects they focus on are the problem.

If you want to know why, try going back and reading my posts in this thread for further clarification. I'm not wasting my time answering your dumb questions anymore, no offense.

 

[Madeline]

You have not linked any subject that could come up in black history month to any undesirable change in behavior, mudwhistle. I suspect you have no more than a free-floating anxiety that kids will develop a chip on their shoulder if they are taught about slavery.

I find that assumption incredibly offensive, if it is how you see things.

 

[Wingsofwind]

When your ancestors were dragged from their homeland against their will and forced into involuntary servitude to save some cheap motherfuckers the cost of labor, you can talk.

Until then, you should probably STFU.

Excuse me, but most of the slaves that were brought here were ALREADY slaves. In fact, there was a law that stated if someone was not a slave to begin with then they can not be brought here as a slave, I believe the first law was made in 1780. Ever see the movie 'The Amistad'? Though that trial was not about the Amistad, it was about African who were wrongly taken into slavery after the international slave trade was abolished.

In 1840, a federal trial court found that the initial transport of the African across the Atlantic (which did not involve the Amistad) had been illegal, because the international slave trade had been abolished, and the captives were thus not legally slaves but free. Furthermore, given that they were illegally confined, the African were entitled to take whatever legal measures necessary to secure their freedom, including the use of force. The US Supreme Court affirmed this finding on March 9, 1841, and the African traveled back to Africa in 1842. The case influenced numerous succeeding laws in the United States.

The U.S. Declared independence in 1776. Four years later Pennsylvania passed an Act for the Gradual Abolition of Slavery in 1780. How many slaves do you think could be brought here in a four years time with ships like what they had back then?

It took about 10 weeks to travel across the Atlantic from Africa to the U.S. It would take roughly around 5 one way trips in one year, that would be 2.5 round trips. In four years you could only make about 9 trips from Africa to the U.S. Now, consider the fact that they didn't continually ship slaves 100% of that time, they couldn't. They had to gather supplies, wait on storms to pass, etc.... Not to mention the fact that some ships didn't make it due to those storms. Not many slaves could have been brought here in that time.

You will find that most of the slaves that were in the U.S. were descendants of the slaves brought here by the British/Spanish and not by the U.S. as a country. Most, if not all, the U.S.'s slaves were already slaves BEFORE it was a country.The U.S. abolished slavery in 1865, 82 years after it was recognized as a country, 89 after it declared independence. Slavery in the U.S. only lasted 82 years. Compare that to how long slavery lasted in the rest of the world and it don't even put a dent in it, not to mention that in some places it is still being practiced. Within those 89years most of the slaves were either already slaves or the descendants of those who were already slaves. Not many, if any at all, were brought here from their homeland and made to be slaves when they weren't already.

 

[Madeline]

This is all quite interesting, Wingsofwings, but it reads as if you are trying to make the point that some people exaggerate the suffering enslaved people experienced in the US. IMO, that'd be almost impossible to do.

 

[Grace]

I don't think anyone is trivializing slavery. What the problem is, is many blacks use "slavery days" as an excuse for bad behavior and expect some kind of compensation. What many of us are saying is it was not just blacks that experienced difficulty in being a minority or just being the race/religion (jews) they were.
So there is a NAACP and Black History Month, Miss Black America, blah blah blah.
But if there were a NAAWP or a NAAAP or a NAAIP or a NAANAP...a Miss Irish, Miss Italian, Miss Asian, Miss Tribe...shit would hit the fan and anyone with white toned skin would be called racist.
So yeah..celebrate your heritage and culture. But let everyone else do the same without one particular peoples being the "victims".
And THAT'S where the problem lays...in my humble opinion.

btw...to try to address the OP with a scenario.....California used to belong to Mexico. Cinco De Mayo is celebrated here. I don't ever recall seeing people getting in front of a microphone or on youtube or on tv berating how the government stole California. All there is is singing and dancing, joy and merriment. Regardless of the stuff going on in Arizona, mind you. Its a time for celebration. Great! It's a fun time! So those who continually use the race card on any given chance/day/month/year over something that happened long ago is what pisses a few off so they don't see the positive things blacks represent. All they see is the same old tired "you owe us because you enslaved us" crap.

Sorry if that came out wrong. Sometimes I can express my thoughts pretty well. Sometimes, I'm like a bull in a china shop and I don't mean to shatter the figurines.

 

[Grace]

For example..read the advertisement headers on this thread:

Ads by Google
Black History
Black Females
Black Picture
Black Americans
Black Women

Now imagine if it said:

White History
White Females
White Pictures
White Americans
White Women

Oh my. A veritable shitstorm would be going on.

 

[Wingsofwind]

This is all quite interesting, Wingsofwings, but it reads as if you are trying to make the point that some people exaggerate the suffering enslaved people experienced in the US. IMO, that'd be almost impossible to do.

People do try to exaggerate the suffering of enslaved people. Granted there were some that were treated VERY badly, but not all were. In fact some where treated very well.

 

[Madeline]

I don't think anyone is trivializing slavery. What the problem is, is many blacks use "slavery days" as an excuse for bad behavior and expect some kind of compensation.

In my whole entire life, I have never heard of anyone trying to excuse bad behavior because his forefathers were slaves. EVER. I have heard people point to modern day racism as a factor in their decisions, and sometimes I thought they made a good point -- other times, no. I have heard people -- of all colors -- discuss reparations for the profits made off slave labor, and I agreed with some (but not all) such proposals.

What many of us are saying is it was not just blacks that experienced difficulty in being a minority or just being the race/religion (jews) they were.

While I agree, IMO no group other than Native Americans suffered in the US as blacks did.

So there is a NAACP and Black History Month, Miss Black America, blah blah blah.
But if there were a NAAWP or a NAAAP or a NAAIP or a NAANAP...a Miss Irish, Miss Italian, Miss Asian, Miss Tribe...shit would hit the fan and anyone with white toned skin would be called racist.

Come again? What is this persistent gripe that no one who is not black can gather together or celebrate their heritage without being called racists?

So yeah..celebrate your heritage and culture. But let everyone else do the same without one particular peoples being the "victims".

Sorry, no can do. If we all celebrate our history mine just is not as tragic as my black friends, and pretending it is isn't going to advance anyone's interests.

And THAT'S where the problem lays...in my humble opinion.

btw...to try to address the OP with a scenario.....California used to belong to Mexico. Cinco De Mayo is celebrated here. I don't ever recall seeing people getting in front of a microphone or on youtube or on tv berating how the government stole California. All there is is singing and dancing, joy and merriment. Regardless of the stuff going on in Arizona, mind you. Its a time for celebration. Great! It's a fun time! So those who continually use the race card on any given chance/day/month/year over something that happened long ago is what pisses a few off so they don't see the positive things blacks represent. All they see is the same old tired "you owe us because you enslaved us" crap.

The practice of slavery only ended in this country about 160 years ago. When I was a kid, there were families around who could trace themselves back enough generations to actually know "great-great-great grandma and grandpa" were slaves. Why should this matter less than the people who can tell you they have a Civil War or Revolutionary War solider in their families? Slavery isn't some obscure event that happened in the midsts of time....it is much more personal and immediate to many people.

But leave that aside. I myself recall the March On Selma. The Jim Crow laws, the Summer Of Freedom, the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act. I'm not black and I'm not southern, but these were watershed events in my life. Asking me to forget about them or treat them as ancient history makes as much sense as asking me to forget the Vietnam War or the Sexual Revolution. If these events had never happened, the world I live in just would not be the same place....they helped to define the country.

I'm sorry the recollection and teaching of this history offends you -- I know many whites feel unnecessary guilt about what took place, forgetting the millions of whites who fought hard on the side of freedom.

Sorry if that came out wrong. Sometimes I can express my thoughts pretty well. Sometimes, I'm like a bull in a china shop and I don't mean to shatter the figurines.

IMEURU, mebbe if I use an analogy it'll make more sense, what I'm trying to say. I grew up in the 1960's and in those days, women who worked outside the home were secretaries or teachers. That was pretty much all there was, and the women of my generation (and older women, and younger women) fought hard to create wider opportunities and greater gender equality for our daughters and granddaughters.

Supposing we had a Women's History Month (and arguably, we need one) and men complained that women just wanted to bitch about past injustices, or that it caused women to cry "victim" to gain advantages or excuse crappy behavior, etc. Can you see how mebbe that would be mistaken? Teaching someone about their history is not supposed to create a sense of injury where none had existed; it is supposed to create pride and appreciation for the hard work of the forebearers.

What should the US be proud of more than its rapid progress towards justice?

 

[Grace]

Come again? What is this persistent gripe that no one who is not black can gather together or celebrate their heritage without being called racists?

Whites CANNOT gather and celebrate their heritage, Madeline. If they did..they would be called racist and you well know it. If you don't, then I don't know where you've been. Or you are refusing to acknowledge it as fact.

Teaching someone about their history is not supposed to create a sense of injury where none had existed; it is supposed to create pride and appreciation for the hard work of the forebearers.

Nobody is saying teaching the history is wrong. What I'm getting out of the ensuing conversation is BLACKS are using this opportunity not to teach what they have accomplished NOW, but rather the oppression from slavery days.

Let me give a scenario of my own:

I start a thread asking WHITES to celebrate our heritage and appreciation of our forebearers. White people. And I call it the White Only thread. How would you feel? We both know the answer to that, don't we?

Again, I am not saying teaching Black History is a bad thing. Some make it in to something it is not. Just like the KKK doesn't make all white people bigoted morons, nor does it mean all KKK members have shaved heads, wear swastikas, have lots of missing teeth and are illiterate.
It's the "some" (bad apples) that ruin it (the barrel). And the barrel should consist of teaching what was done that shouldn't have been and then MOVING ON. Not holding on to it forever.

 

[Grace]

And yes...analogies always help me understand better, so thank you for using one. I call them scenarios, myself. It helps my brain digest.

 

[Article 15]

For example..read the advertisement headers on this thread:

Ads by Google
Black History
Black Females
Black Picture
Black Americans
Black Women

Now imagine if it said:

White History
White Females
White Pictures
White Americans
White Women

Oh my. A veritable shitstorm would be going on.

You are absolutely correct. There is a total double standard. And you know what? I am just fine with it as it this is a result of our long history of slavery, segregation, and oppression of blacks in this country by whites and white supremacist groups. "White pride" didn't become synonymous with racism in this country by accident or in a vacuum or anything and nor did "black pride" become something to be celebrated in the same way.


History matters.

 

[JBeukema]

Just don't understand why each race wants it's own special month, and can't just get over it and view us all default of skin color.

Black people, of all people, should be the first to wanna get rid of black history month. Do you guys want us to view you as everything EXCEPT your skin color? If so, you gotta stop seperating yourselves with things that emphasize your skin color.

Because that's the nature of humanity. There is only one true race. The Human Race.

All other designations are simply variations on a theme to suit human nature.

race as pursued by the public in a naive or simplistic way, erroneously designating wholly discrete types of individuals. Among humans, race has no cladistic significance—all people belong to the same hominid subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens.

Race (classification of humans) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Really? Wiki?

How do you explain Bidil?

 

[JBeukema]

Probable Race of a Stain Donor

 

[Madeline]

Well, Black History Month is hardly "blacks only". It's for all of us. As far as I know, there is no mainstream civil rights organization that excludes non-blacks and the public school curriculum is certainly not directed only at black students.

Mebbe every "whites only" gathering would be deemed racist. Mebbe it should be -- but celebrations go on here all year for every ethnic group under the sun, many of them "white". And if you go, you'll see people of every ethnicity enjoying them. This may be more common in Cleveland than other places I have lived, but I have never lived anywhere that people felt they could not celebrate or preserve the history of their forebearers just because they were white. If such a community exists in the US, it's news to me.

All history lessons are about teaching what once was. "Moving on" is a weird concept -- nobody is "moving on" from trauma experienced by people who lived a century or more ago. But I think what you're overlooking is that the history is unique -- and uniquely painful -- in the case of American blacks. I don't imagine many blacks can look at images of slaves and not feel something profound that you and I just don't fully understand.

I agree, the ultimate lesson of Black History Month should be triumph and success, not sorrow and suffering. But how can you expect people, black or white, to gauge the amazing success that's been achieved unless they can first appreciate the desperate lengths that have been traveled?

 

[JBeukema]

What was the name of the antimalarial the Army used before they learned that Mediterraneans had an adverse reaction to it? It was back in korea, if memory serves

 

[JBeukema]

What happened to my ancestors has nothing to do with me today.

Judging by the condition Africa today is in, blacks should instead count their blessings bacause they seem to have caught a friggen break.

The Africans that were enslaved and brought here went through unimaginable horrors for centuries, yes it is better to be in the US than Africa but its kind of hard to ask black people to be thankful for slavery because it brought them to the US.

Hang on a sec.
From what I garnered while in school, whites were indeed guilty of PURCHASING blacks...from warring tribes of blacks who sold those they defeated in battle. Some went to the states. Some went to europe. Many went to Turkey and other middle east countries. But from my understanding, the majority were sold by the victors in wars in their own country. Some were also sold by siblings so the power play of who was to take over in the tribal decisions on who was to rule, etc.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is...it wasn't just "caucasians" that participated in enslaving blacks. Blacks themselves had a big hand in it as well. But for some reason, that part is glossed over. I wonder why.

Black History month is great. But so is White History..which could encompass Irish History. They were treated just as badly as blacks. So were asians. Who do you think built most of the railroads? And italians. And Jews. And Native Americans. Why isn't there a Native American Month???

 

[Grace]

Some brief history lessons, compliments of google:

Irish Immigrants in America

ASIAN AMERICANS

 

[Madeline]

What was the name of the antimalarial the Army used before they learned that Mediterraneans had an adverse reaction to it? It was back in korea, if memory serves

http://www.malariasite.com/malaria/anti_malarial_drugs.htm

Does this have any bearing on the topic at hand, JB, or are you just hijacking?

 

[Madeline]

Some brief history lessons, compliments of google:

Irish Immigrants in America

ASIAN AMERICANS

No one is denying people other than blacks have suffered, IMEURU. Just look at Native Americans, who we still oppress.

 

[Grace]

Well...I'll just pack up and move to an all black neighborhood and fly my rebel flag and then I'll start a business in the all black part of town and call it "White Shop" and every month I will have a White History meeting. All are welcome, even my black neighbors. Wanna bet how long I will last? Alive?

I think I'm about as done with this discussion as I am with the middle eastern 14 year old girl being raped by a perv and her dying while he digs in his nasty assed pocket to pay his fine.