Jeb Bush: Next president should privatize Social Security

[NYcarbineer]

Hands OFF my SS...I have been collecting it for 15 years now... think of the millions of people who depend on it to stay afloat as retirees. The greatest thing we ever did in this nation legislative wise is SS.

The beauty of it is that you pay your tax and that's it, and then one day you wake up old lol, spend a short time filling out some forms, and voila, you start getting checks.

 

[NYcarbineer]

.

Who is saying retired people need to keep their retirement savings in the stock market? You really dont get this do you?

Because the sheep don't understand the concept of choice.

They are all so afraid of the stock market they don't realize they could save their money in other places

My response was to blather about the wonderful return of investments in the stock market. The DOW was specifically mentioned, hence, the limited return on the 30 best or most popular stocks.
When other, safer investments are made the returns are reduced, invalidating much of the argument about the wonderful world of investing. Sure, savvy investors go for the higher risk bigger return investments when young and earning and transfer to safer investments with age and as retirement comes closer. The problem is that the average person does not have the knowledge and savvy to be a competent investor and needs to trust in an investment broker.
More significantly, than investment skills and trusting a broker or "expert", the people who need SS the most are the ones who will measure the return on how long and how much they collect when they retire. The length of life after the retirement age will be the determining factor, not data sheets and charts. You live 20 years after retirement instead of 10 and you collect double the amount. SS goes on until you die. People trust the government more than they trust the investment broker, investment banks and Wall Street. And as someone previously stated, if SS defaults you can be certain the guys holding your private investments will already have defaulted, gone broke, absconded and your investments will be gone.

SS is guaranteed to default – they are going to change the benefits or the tax collections to meet future requirements.

That is a default on the original agreement.

No it isn't. Everyone has understood since the start and for the last 80 years adjustments and changes would and have taken place to grow and adapt to changing times.

What changes have been made in the last 20 years to account for people living longer and insure the solvency of the fund?

Reagan and the Democrats made the changes in 1983 that amounted to roughly a 50 year fix. All SS needs now is another 50 year fix.

 

[Skull Pilot]

.

Because the sheep don't understand the concept of choice.

They are all so afraid of the stock market they don't realize they could save their money in other places

My response was to blather about the wonderful return of investments in the stock market. The DOW was specifically mentioned, hence, the limited return on the 30 best or most popular stocks.
When other, safer investments are made the returns are reduced, invalidating much of the argument about the wonderful world of investing. Sure, savvy investors go for the higher risk bigger return investments when young and earning and transfer to safer investments with age and as retirement comes closer. The problem is that the average person does not have the knowledge and savvy to be a competent investor and needs to trust in an investment broker.
More significantly, than investment skills and trusting a broker or "expert", the people who need SS the most are the ones who will measure the return on how long and how much they collect when they retire. The length of life after the retirement age will be the determining factor, not data sheets and charts. You live 20 years after retirement instead of 10 and you collect double the amount. SS goes on until you die. People trust the government more than they trust the investment broker, investment banks and Wall Street. And as someone previously stated, if SS defaults you can be certain the guys holding your private investments will already have defaulted, gone broke, absconded and your investments will be gone.

SS is guaranteed to default – they are going to change the benefits or the tax collections to meet future requirements.

That is a default on the original agreement.

No it isn't. Everyone has understood since the start and for the last 80 years adjustments and changes would and have taken place to grow and adapt to changing times.

What changes have been made in the last 20 years to account for people living longer and insure the solvency of the fund?

Reagan and the Democrats made the changes in 1983 that amounted to roughly a 50 year fix. All SS needs now is another 50 year fix.

Kick the can again

 

[Skull Pilot]

Hands OFF my SS...I have been collecting it for 15 years now... think of the millions of people who depend on it to stay afloat as retirees. The greatest thing we ever did in this nation legislative wise is SS.

The beauty of it is that you pay your tax and that's it, and then one day you wake up old lol, spend a short time filling out some forms, and voila, you start getting checks.

And are guaranteed to have less than you would have if you saved that money yourself.

AWESOME

 

[NYcarbineer]

PratchettFan
In that you are a citizen of this country and take advantage of the benefits of this country. You don't get that for free.

Hm. That sounds statutory.
Where does the constitution say that as the price of being a citizen of this country, I am responsible for the poor decisions of others?

Social Security makes you responsible for yourself. You'd prefer irresponsibility.

This is, of course, a lie.
I prefer choice, and once the choices.are made. expect others to take responsibility for their choices.
You know, like a responsible adult.

Successful investment has very little to do with anyone's choices, especially when it involves people who are not professional investors.

Time in the market beats timing the market for average investors.
The first mutual fund I invested in at 18 has averaged an 11% return. That fund is still in my portfolio and will be for a long time.

You don't seem to understand a buy and hold strategy.

.
My response was to blather about the wonderful return of investments in the stock market. The DOW was specifically mentioned, hence, the limited return on the 30 best or most popular stocks.
When other, safer investments are made the returns are reduced, invalidating much of the argument about the wonderful world of investing. Sure, savvy investors go for the higher risk bigger return investments when young and earning and transfer to safer investments with age and as retirement comes closer. The problem is that the average person does not have the knowledge and savvy to be a competent investor and needs to trust in an investment broker.
More significantly, than investment skills and trusting a broker or "expert", the people who need SS the most are the ones who will measure the return on how long and how much they collect when they retire. The length of life after the retirement age will be the determining factor, not data sheets and charts. You live 20 years after retirement instead of 10 and you collect double the amount. SS goes on until you die. People trust the government more than they trust the investment broker, investment banks and Wall Street. And as someone previously stated, if SS defaults you can be certain the guys holding your private investments will already have defaulted, gone broke, absconded and your investments will be gone.

SS is guaranteed to default – they are going to change the benefits or the tax collections to meet future requirements.

That is a default on the original agreement.

No it isn't. Everyone has understood since the start and for the last 80 years adjustments and changes would and have taken place to grow and adapt to changing times.

What changes have been made in the last 20 years to account for people living longer and insure the solvency of the fund?

Reagan and the Democrats made the changes in 1983 that amounted to roughly a 50 year fix. All SS needs now is another 50 year fix.

Kick the can again

Geez, so I guess fixing your car so it runs another 50,000 miles is a dumb idea?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Hm. That sounds statutory.
Where does the constitution say that as the price of being a citizen of this country, I am responsible for the poor decisions of others?

Social Security makes you responsible for yourself. You'd prefer irresponsibility.

This is, of course, a lie.
I prefer choice, and once the choices.are made. expect others to take responsibility for their choices.
You know, like a responsible adult.

Successful investment has very little to do with anyone's choices, especially when it involves people who are not professional investors.

Time in the market beats timing the market for average investors.
The first mutual fund I invested in at 18 has averaged an 11% return. That fund is still in my portfolio and will be for a long time.

You don't seem to understand a buy and hold strategy.

SS is guaranteed to default – they are going to change the benefits or the tax collections to meet future requirements.

That is a default on the original agreement.

No it isn't. Everyone has understood since the start and for the last 80 years adjustments and changes would and have taken place to grow and adapt to changing times.

What changes have been made in the last 20 years to account for people living longer and insure the solvency of the fund?

Reagan and the Democrats made the changes in 1983 that amounted to roughly a 50 year fix. All SS needs now is another 50 year fix.

Kick the can again

Geez, so I guess fixing your car so it runs another 50,000 miles is a dumb idea?

When fixing that car costs more than buying a new or newer car yes it is a bad idea

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hands OFF my SS...I have been collecting it for 15 years now... think of the millions of people who depend on it to stay afloat as retirees. The greatest thing we ever did in this nation legislative wise is SS.

The beauty of it is that you pay your tax and that's it, and then one day you wake up old lol, spend a short time filling out some forms, and voila, you start getting checks.

And are guaranteed to have less than you would have if you saved that money yourself.

AWESOME

Social Security makes you responsible for yourself. You'd prefer irresponsibility.

This is, of course, a lie.
I prefer choice, and once the choices.are made. expect others to take responsibility for their choices.
You know, like a responsible adult.

Successful investment has very little to do with anyone's choices, especially when it involves people who are not professional investors.

Time in the market beats timing the market for average investors.
The first mutual fund I invested in at 18 has averaged an 11% return. That fund is still in my portfolio and will be for a long time.

You don't seem to understand a buy and hold strategy.

No it isn't. Everyone has understood since the start and for the last 80 years adjustments and changes would and have taken place to grow and adapt to changing times.

What changes have been made in the last 20 years to account for people living longer and insure the solvency of the fund?

Reagan and the Democrats made the changes in 1983 that amounted to roughly a 50 year fix. All SS needs now is another 50 year fix.

Kick the can again

Geez, so I guess fixing your car so it runs another 50,000 miles is a dumb idea?

When fixing that car costs more than buying a new or newer car yes it is a bad idea

It's more expensive to privatize SS.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Hands OFF my SS...I have been collecting it for 15 years now... think of the millions of people who depend on it to stay afloat as retirees. The greatest thing we ever did in this nation legislative wise is SS.

The beauty of it is that you pay your tax and that's it, and then one day you wake up old lol, spend a short time filling out some forms, and voila, you start getting checks.

And are guaranteed to have less than you would have if you saved that money yourself.

AWESOME

This is, of course, a lie.
I prefer choice, and once the choices.are made. expect others to take responsibility for their choices.
You know, like a responsible adult.

Successful investment has very little to do with anyone's choices, especially when it involves people who are not professional investors.

Time in the market beats timing the market for average investors.
The first mutual fund I invested in at 18 has averaged an 11% return. That fund is still in my portfolio and will be for a long time.

You don't seem to understand a buy and hold strategy.

What changes have been made in the last 20 years to account for people living longer and insure the solvency of the fund?

Reagan and the Democrats made the changes in 1983 that amounted to roughly a 50 year fix. All SS needs now is another 50 year fix.

Kick the can again

Geez, so I guess fixing your car so it runs another 50,000 miles is a dumb idea?

When fixing that car costs more than buying a new or newer car yes it is a bad idea

It's more expensive to privatize SS.

No it costs nothing to privatize SS as each person will own his own account and there will be no government necessary

 

[nat4900]

No it should not be privatized. There is no need for some outside entity to siphon a profit off an American worker's SS money.

Indeed, there is no doubt that to privatize even a third of the SS contribution would make fund managers on Wall Street into multi-millionaires.

Let's go back to the often touted Chilean model that GWB raved about. Right wingers, have would you rate a system that:

1. Mandates that 10% of your salary be allocated toward a private retirement account....

2. Mandates that the above be in effect for at LEAST 20 years.

3. That would yield upon retirement a "whopping" $10 per day for yourself and family.

....and of course, a system that has created a bunch of millionaires as "trustees" in Chile.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No it should not be privatized. There is no need for some outside entity to siphon a profit off an American worker's SS money.

Indeed, there is no doubt that to privatize even a third of the SS contribution would make fund managers on Wall Street into multi-millionaires.

Let's go back to the often touted Chilean model that GWB raved about. Right wingers, have would you rate a system that:

1. Mandates that 10% of your salary be allocated toward a private retirement account....

2. Mandates that the above be in effect for at LEAST 20 years.

3. That would yield upon retirement a "whopping" $10 per day for yourself and family.

....and of course, a system that has created a bunch of millionaires as "trustees" in Chile.

Here you go again assuming people have to pay people to manage their money.

If you don't want to pay someone pick a no load sector fund with a very low expense ratio

There are thousands of them out there

 

[Camp]

Hands OFF my SS...I have been collecting it for 15 years now... think of the millions of people who depend on it to stay afloat as retirees. The greatest thing we ever did in this nation legislative wise is SS.

The beauty of it is that you pay your tax and that's it, and then one day you wake up old lol, spend a short time filling out some forms, and voila, you start getting checks.

And are guaranteed to have less than you would have if you saved that money yourself.

AWESOME

Not if you had to pay for private insurance under your privatizing scheme to compensate for the lost insurance benefits from SS. You guys love to ignore those insurance and survivor benefits people get on SS and not with any private plan that has ever been proposed. See what the rate of return looks like on a private plan when you compare equal contributions to the private plan and SS, but adjust the private figure. Deduct the amount the investor has to pay for the insurance premium for obtaining the insurance comparable to what you get at no additional cost with SS. Keep in mind, there is no caps on the SS plan.

 

[nat4900]

Here you go again assuming people have to pay people to manage their money.

If you don't want to pay someone pick a no load sector fund with a very low expense ratio

There are thousands of them out there

Fine......do the above with your disposable income.....but leave the safety net of SS out of the speculation.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Hands OFF my SS...I have been collecting it for 15 years now... think of the millions of people who depend on it to stay afloat as retirees. The greatest thing we ever did in this nation legislative wise is SS.

The beauty of it is that you pay your tax and that's it, and then one day you wake up old lol, spend a short time filling out some forms, and voila, you start getting checks.

And are guaranteed to have less than you would have if you saved that money yourself.

AWESOME

Not if you had to pay for private insurance under your privatizing scheme to compensate for the lost insurance benefits from SS. You guys love to ignore those insurance and survivor benefits people get on SS and not with any private plan that has ever been proposed. See what the rate of return looks like on a private plan when you compare equal contributions to the private plan and SS, but adjust the private figure. Deduct the amount the investor has to pay for the insurance premium for obtaining the insurance comparable to what you get at no additional cost with SS. Keep in mind, there is no caps on the SS plan.

You can get a private disability insurance that provides better benefits than SS

When you die ALL your money in your account goes to your survivors not just a piddly monthly check. The average Di payment is about 1100 a month

If you get DI insurance at age 22 it will cost you 39 a month for a guaranteed benefit of 2800 a month until age 65.
If you like you can opt for a return of premium policy that will give you back all the premium you paid if you never have a claim and a prorated amount if you do have a claim. AND the private policy will pay as long as you are unable to perform your current job and it will pay partial benefits if you can't return to your occupation and have to take a lower paying or part time job.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Here you go again assuming people have to pay people to manage their money.

If you don't want to pay someone pick a no load sector fund with a very low expense ratio

There are thousands of them out there

Fine......do the above with your disposable income.....but leave the safety net of SS out of the speculation.

Why should I have to get 15% of my lifetime income stolen by the government?

If I had that money since I was 18 and was able to save it myself I'd already be retired

 

[Camp]

Hands OFF my SS...I have been collecting it for 15 years now... think of the millions of people who depend on it to stay afloat as retirees. The greatest thing we ever did in this nation legislative wise is SS.

The beauty of it is that you pay your tax and that's it, and then one day you wake up old lol, spend a short time filling out some forms, and voila, you start getting checks.

And are guaranteed to have less than you would have if you saved that money yourself.

AWESOME

Not if you had to pay for private insurance under your privatizing scheme to compensate for the lost insurance benefits from SS. You guys love to ignore those insurance and survivor benefits people get on SS and not with any private plan that has ever been proposed. See what the rate of return looks like on a private plan when you compare equal contributions to the private plan and SS, but adjust the private figure. Deduct the amount the investor has to pay for the insurance premium for obtaining the insurance comparable to what you get at no additional cost with SS. Keep in mind, there is no caps on the SS plan.

You can get a private disability insurance that provides better benefits than SS

When you die ALL your money in your account goes to your survivors not just a piddly monthly check. The average Di payment is about 1100 a month

If you get DI insurance at age 22 it will cost you 39 a month for a guaranteed benefit of 2800 a month until age 65.
If you like you can opt for a return of premium policy that will give you back all the premium you paid if you never have a claim and a prorated amount if you do have a claim. AND the private policy will pay as long as you are unable to perform your current job and it will pay partial benefits if you can't return to your occupation and have to take a lower paying or part time job.

You left out death benefits to children.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hands OFF my SS...I have been collecting it for 15 years now... think of the millions of people who depend on it to stay afloat as retirees. The greatest thing we ever did in this nation legislative wise is SS.

The beauty of it is that you pay your tax and that's it, and then one day you wake up old lol, spend a short time filling out some forms, and voila, you start getting checks.

And are guaranteed to have less than you would have if you saved that money yourself.

AWESOME

Successful investment has very little to do with anyone's choices, especially when it involves people who are not professional investors.

Time in the market beats timing the market for average investors.
The first mutual fund I invested in at 18 has averaged an 11% return. That fund is still in my portfolio and will be for a long time.

You don't seem to understand a buy and hold strategy.

Reagan and the Democrats made the changes in 1983 that amounted to roughly a 50 year fix. All SS needs now is another 50 year fix.

Kick the can again

Geez, so I guess fixing your car so it runs another 50,000 miles is a dumb idea?

When fixing that car costs more than buying a new or newer car yes it is a bad idea

It's more expensive to privatize SS.

No it costs nothing to privatize SS as each person will own his own account and there will be no government necessary

You have millions of Americans on SS now and millions who have paid in for years.

The annual revenue from payroll taxes is being used to pay current recipients and thus maintain the invested Trust Fund, which yields 100 billion in interest annually.

Privatization means the payroll tax no longer goes to recipients or the Trust Fund, it stays with the individual.

That means SS has to use up the Trust Fund, in other words, call in its notes at the expense of the general fund, aka you the taxpayer.

 

[Camp]

Here you go again assuming people have to pay people to manage their money.

If you don't want to pay someone pick a no load sector fund with a very low expense ratio

There are thousands of them out there

Fine......do the above with your disposable income.....but leave the safety net of SS out of the speculation.

Why should I have to get 15% of my lifetime income stolen by the government?

If I had that money since I was 18 and was able to save it myself I'd already be retired

The SS tax has never been near 15%.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Hands OFF my SS...I have been collecting it for 15 years now... think of the millions of people who depend on it to stay afloat as retirees. The greatest thing we ever did in this nation legislative wise is SS.

The beauty of it is that you pay your tax and that's it, and then one day you wake up old lol, spend a short time filling out some forms, and voila, you start getting checks.

And are guaranteed to have less than you would have if you saved that money yourself.

AWESOME

Not if you had to pay for private insurance under your privatizing scheme to compensate for the lost insurance benefits from SS. You guys love to ignore those insurance and survivor benefits people get on SS and not with any private plan that has ever been proposed. See what the rate of return looks like on a private plan when you compare equal contributions to the private plan and SS, but adjust the private figure. Deduct the amount the investor has to pay for the insurance premium for obtaining the insurance comparable to what you get at no additional cost with SS. Keep in mind, there is no caps on the SS plan.

You can get a private disability insurance that provides better benefits than SS

When you die ALL your money in your account goes to your survivors not just a piddly monthly check. The average Di payment is about 1100 a month

If you get DI insurance at age 22 it will cost you 39 a month for a guaranteed benefit of 2800 a month until age 65.
If you like you can opt for a return of premium policy that will give you back all the premium you paid if you never have a claim and a prorated amount if you do have a claim. AND the private policy will pay as long as you are unable to perform your current job and it will pay partial benefits if you can't return to your occupation and have to take a lower paying or part time job.

You left out death benefits to children.

You ever hear of life insurance.

You can buy a 30 year 500K term policy at age 25 for 32 a month and can opt for a return of premium plan as well

 

[Skull Pilot]

Here you go again assuming people have to pay people to manage their money.

If you don't want to pay someone pick a no load sector fund with a very low expense ratio

There are thousands of them out there

Fine......do the above with your disposable income.....but leave the safety net of SS out of the speculation.

Why should I have to get 15% of my lifetime income stolen by the government?

If I had that money since I was 18 and was able to save it myself I'd already be retired

The SS tax has never been near 15%.

You do realize that your FICA taxes are 7.6% of your income and that your employer matches that don't you

add it up and what do you get???

 

[Skull Pilot]

Hands OFF my SS...I have been collecting it for 15 years now... think of the millions of people who depend on it to stay afloat as retirees. The greatest thing we ever did in this nation legislative wise is SS.

The beauty of it is that you pay your tax and that's it, and then one day you wake up old lol, spend a short time filling out some forms, and voila, you start getting checks.

And are guaranteed to have less than you would have if you saved that money yourself.

AWESOME

Time in the market beats timing the market for average investors.
The first mutual fund I invested in at 18 has averaged an 11% return. That fund is still in my portfolio and will be for a long time.

You don't seem to understand a buy and hold strategy.

Kick the can again

Geez, so I guess fixing your car so it runs another 50,000 miles is a dumb idea?

When fixing that car costs more than buying a new or newer car yes it is a bad idea

It's more expensive to privatize SS.

No it costs nothing to privatize SS as each person will own his own account and there will be no government necessary

You have millions of Americans on SS now and millions who have paid in for years.

The annual revenue from payroll taxes is being used to pay current recipients and thus maintain the invested Trust Fund, which yields 100 billion in interest annually.

Privatization means the payroll tax no longer goes to recipients or the Trust Fund, it stays with the individual.

That means SS has to use up the Trust Fund, in other words, call in its notes at the expense of the general fund, aka you the taxpayer.

There is no trust fund and SS is paid out of the general fund.

You grandfather in everyone over a certain age and give everyone the option of going private