mal
Diamond Member
- Mar 16, 2009
- 42,723
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- #401
Studied it from a historical, linguistic and culteral perspective under who? Where did you come about the linguistic expertise in order to study it from that perspective?
I have a college education, graduated with a major in Business Information Technology, a minor in Comp. Sci, and I'm working on an MBA. I've studied the Bible for as long as you have, almost, you must be older than I am.But, none of that makes me an expert in Greek linguistics or Greek text to speak in any authority about translations of the text. My point is, you know what you've read somewhere, same as everybody else who's spent any time on this topic and cared to learn more. Who's to say how accurate your sources are?
I understand your point...essentially "one's opinion is only as good as the source information." It's a fair question and I don't have an issue with it.
My sources have been varied and many. My purpose for studying history in college and pursuing the study of history after graduation through further college courses, reading, etc was for the purpose of understanding history to further an understanding of the Bible. When I discuss the "history, languages, cultures, etc" my personal point of expertise is in the history and cultures part. That is where I have performed the majority of formal and independent study. But I quickly learned that understanding history and culture was not enough. Understanding the languages was important, understanding traditions was important, etc
For the languages part I historically relied on various sources. In college I developed a circle of professors who were experts in Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, etc who were willing to assist me with the linguistics. I maintained those relationships after I graduated and have relied upon them ever since. Through time I have met others who have expertise and are willing to assist me. When I became a teacher I pulled many of my colleagues from the university into that circle. So I have a large group of people who understand what I am trying to do and are willing to assist me in furthering my "search for the real God" so to speak and throughout my life they have been willing to lend me their expertise in specific areas that apply.
In addition I read a LOT and I never take one point of view as gospel. I make sure I read the opposing point of view as well, compare it to what I have discovered to that point, look for evidence that supports or refutes a given point, discuss the results with my colleagues to gain multiple points of view, etc.
So let's say I want to do some research on Pilate's role in the crucifixion. Well first I will read the English translation in the Bible. Then I will research it from a historical perspective through my existing education, additional course work if available, discussions with colleagues and friends who are experts in Roman history, further reading, etc. I will look for information on Pilate specifically (not much there), but I will also look at what Roman Prefects were like in general. What was their role? What did they do? What were their attitudes? Pilate was under Tiberius...what was he like? Did he demand certain things? What was going on in Judea during the reign of Tiberius? How did that impact the culture and perspectives? Etc, etc.
Once I have a pretty good handle on that then I will look at it from a cultural perspective to get an understanding of why a given historical event may have happened in a given way. For example it's a pretty good bet that when Pilate talked to Jesus he was in a fucking shitty mood to begin with. Pilate was almost certainly pulled from a nice comfy estate where his every need was fulfilled to the middle of a city that he probably considered a shithole, was a political powder keg, he knew the Jews were going to be "uppity", etc....BUT he would have had to have been a man who applied Roman law appropriately or Tiberius would have had his head. The Jews are going to be raising all hell and pushing the limits of what they can get away with because it's Passover in a holy city that is occupied by pagans. So I get a handle on that.
Then I will get in touch with my experts in linguistics and we'll discuss what the Bible has to say from a linguistic point of view (and I will use multiple sources and experts to ensure I get multiple perspectives). We will discuss passages in the Bible pertaining to Pilate and discuss the significance of this word vs. that word. What the multiple meaning for this word are...did that meaning change over time? How many ways could it be interpreted?
A lot of this will cross over because history, culture, language, traditions, etc are all somewhat intertwined so I will constantly be referring back to notes I have taken here, a class I have taken there, a conversation with this professor, a conversation with that other professor.
And once it's all done I will think about it....for about a year. Then I will wrap it all up into a conclusion and sit down with all those people and discuss it at length. I will check for accuracy, make sure I understand the contrary points of view, etc.
Now will that be the end of it? No...over time I will gain new insights and new learning and you may see my conclusion adjust a bit here and a bit there....sometimes it changes completely.
So does that make me an "expert"? You are free to reach your own conclusion on that (and frankly I am really not concerned whether you do or not)....but I will say that I feel pretty confident that I have a far greater understanding than the person who stands when he is told to stand, kneels when he is told to kneel, sings when he is told to sing, prays using words he is told to use, and believes what he is told to believe by a guy wearing a robe.
Well, in reading your summation, there is one very important thing that is missing throughout the entire thing. You talk about what 'you' do over and over, how you study, look at history, confer with 'experts', etc... yet you made not one mention of just reading the Bible and relying on the Holy Spirit to guide you in your reading, you do not mention prayer once throughout it either, asking God for clarification and understanding. You only rely on your own intellect or research, and nothing else. To me, that's a big indication that you look at the Bible in an entirely different light than I do. The spiritual aspect isn't mentioned at all among your words, so I think in all your intellectual study of the book, you're missing the most important aspect of it.
And how can you so blindly make a statement such as the one I bolded? How long has it been since you've attended a church? A guy 'wearing a robe?'Sounds like you haven't been in a church in over 30 years. But what I see in those words is disrespect and condescension. On one hand you say to have an 'open mind', but on the other, it appears to me that yours is closed. You make assumptions about people, label them, and then put them down by calling them blind sheep because you don't agree with how you *think* they practice their religion. And I say how you think they practice, because in reality you have absolutely no idea what these people do in their day to day lives. I can tell you that you are comletely and 100% wrong based from my own experiences in my own church. Perhaps you should take the blinders off and visit a few churches before you make such broad based assumptions about Christians today.
I do thank you for taking the time to explain and for being courteous, you don't see that around here very often.
peace...
