Zone1 Jews: Do you blame Jesus for all the persecution our people have suffered?

[irosie91]

the content of your post indicates that you have a need for professional
evaluation

oh gee----surada has expressed an OPINION regarding the clyde word-salad.
I am intrigued

 

[ReinyDays]

Some ratios ... 1,000 people for a world population of 300 million would be 27,000 people for a world population of 8 billion ... county seat sized ... Rome peaked at 1 million around 1 AD ... but crashed after ... looks like 14th Century China before we see any city over a million ...

Makes no difference if this really is the place Abraham sacrificed that poor ram, instead of Issac ... [shrugs shoulders] ... as good as any I guess ...

 

[TNHarley]

He is dead now

Someone actually said this was "fake news"

 

[Clyde 154]

the content of your post indicates that you have a need for professional
evaluation

That's why I am here........for the comic relief. What? 8th grade English to complicated to comprehend? Simply refute anything presented as being FALSE or Personal, I deal in objective facts that can be documented. Objective to the fact that the Holy Bible has been in existence for well over 3500 years in total, and it objectively reads the same for anyone that opens the pages thereof.

Example: one can always know the end of the game via the subjective ad hominem attack that always follows those who have painted themselves into an indefensible corner with their own words. Its like watching "TAZ" come spinning out of the corner no logic, no reason...........just emotion. Its "ME" that needs help, not the person who declares that Religion can be defined by one's DNA signature.

 

[Clyde 154]

the content of your post indicates that you have a need for professional
evalua

the content of your post indicates that you have a need for professional
evaluation

Are you from India? Your language usage is not American Eng

Are you from India? Your language usage is not American English.

Nope......just proper English. Spell check is amazing.

 

[Votto]

ANCIENT RABBIS???? the person you cite was born in the late 1800s AD. That
he was a "rabbi" is conjecture. Feel free to
cite the "rabbis" who credit Daniel with predicting a "messiah" that DA JOOOOS
would reject as recorded in the TALMUD------please provide the aramaic passages

Correct, I merely mentioned him because he was one rabbi whose life was changed regarding the prophesy.

“Rabbi Maimonides, the preeminent medieval Jewish philosopher and one of the greatest Torah scholars of the Middle Ages, said this about Daniel 9:24-27 – “Daniel has made known to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise rabbis have barred the calculation of the days of Messiah’s coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah" (Igeret Teiman,Chapter 3 p.24.)
Apparently, Maimonides believed that Daniel did accurately predict in advance events related to the “end times,” including the date of the coming of the Messiah, but believed that they were “secret,” or not understandable, and thus believed it best that the rabbis not teach Daniel chapter nine to their congregants lest they be dismayed if they believed they saw these events happening and the Messiah did not appear. A Sage said: "May the curse of heaven fall upon those who calculate the date of the advent of the Messiah, and thus create political and social unrest among the people."( Sanhedrin, 97b.)
Sanhedrin, 97 b is an excerpt from the Babylonian Talmud, a collection of ancient Rabbinic writings containing the basis of religious authority in Orthodox Judaism (the religion of those Jewish people who adhere most strictly to traditional Jewish beliefs and practices). Concerning Daniel chapter nine, Sanhedrin, 97b indicates that many rabbis believed that calculating the date of the coming of the Messiah might cause political and social unrest among the Jewish people, and thus thought it best not to perform the calculation. In fact, they felt so strongly about this that they pronounced a curse on anyone who calculated the date of Messiah’s coming.
“Rabbis after the time of Christ have pronounced a curse on anyone who would attempt to calculate the dates of this chapter.” (Talmud Sanhedrin 97b, Soncino ed., p. 659.)
Talmud Sanhedrin 97b implies that some rabbis did recognize that Daniel chapter nine predicted the time of Yeshua’s (Jesus’) death, and were so concerned that this might cause Jewish people to recognize Yeshua as the Messiah that they pronounced a curse on those who calculated the dates revealed in Daniel chapter nine.”

 

[Votto]

Probably because he didnt complete the prophecies.

There is not a Christian alive who would claim all the prophesies are complete, which is why they believe he will come a second time.

 

[Votto]

Yeah, yeah….whatever. No evidence Jesus ever said any of that.

And P.S. What is reported in the gospels isn‘t “actual history.”

Actually it is.

The text comes from eyewitness encounters with Jesus in the form of the 4 gospels.

Paul was also a real historical figure who wrote most of the NT.

The entire Bible is a valuable insight into the past, as most historical texts have been lost or not recorded at all since most of history has been lost forever.

 

[surada]

That's why I am here........for the comic relief. What? 8th grade English to complicated to comprehend? Simply refute anything presented as being FALSE or Personal, I deal in objective facts that can be documented. Objective to the fact that the Holy Bible has been in existence for well over 3500 years in total, and it objectively reads the same for anyone that opens the pages thereof.

Example: one can always know the end of the game via the subjective ad hominem attack that always follows those who have painted themselves into an indefensible corner with their own words. Its like watching "TAZ" come spinning out of the corner no logic, no reason...........just emotion. Its "ME" that needs help, not the person who declares that Religion can be defined by one's DNA signature.

3500 years???

 

[surada]

That's why I am here........for the comic relief. What? 8th grade English to complicated to comprehend? Simply refute anything presented as being FALSE or Personal, I deal in objective facts that can be documented. Objective to the fact that the Holy Bible has been in existence for well over 3500 years in total, and it objectively reads the same for anyone that opens the pages thereof.

Example: one can always know the end of the game via the subjective ad hominem attack that always follows those who have painted themselves into an indefensible corner with their own words. Its like watching "TAZ" come spinning out of the corner no logic, no reason...........just emotion. Its "ME" that needs help, not the person who declares that Religion can be defined by one's DNA signature.

There was no Bible in 1400 BC.

 

[Votto]

Another powerful prophesy is Isahiah 53

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Naturally, Christians use this prophesy to say it identifies as Jesus fulfilling it and Jews don't

However, those that don't have a problem which is the part I highlighted

Never before has God sought to punish a righteous man as God only punishes wickedness.

It makes no sense other than Jesus fulfilling the prophesy, and for obvious reasons.

 

[surada]

Another powerful prophesy is Isahiah 53

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Naturally, Christians use this prophesy to say it identifies as Jesus fulfilling it and Jews don't

However, those that don't have a problem which is the part I highlighted

Never before has God sought to punish a righteous man as God only punishes wickedness.

It makes no sense other than Jesus fulfilling the prophesy, and for obvious reasons.

@asher
norwegen

FYI

 

[Kruska]

Actually it is.

The text comes from eyewitness encounters with Jesus in the form of the 4 gospels.

Paul was also a real historical figure who wrote most of the NT.

The entire Bible is a valuable insight into the past, as most historical texts have been lost or not recorded at all since most of history has been lost forever.

There isn't a single eyewitness in regards to the NT - since it began to be written more then 100 years after this Jesus died.
And it was written by Jews - who were in opposition to the "corrupted Judaism" that was being practiced at the time and upheld by Rabbis.

If you chose to believe into the NT or Old Testimony - then that is your personal choice - and both books don't bear/behold a single witness of any described accounts.

 

[norwegen]

There is not a Christian alive who would claim all the prophesies are complete, which is why they believe he will come a second time.

On the contrary, some Christians believe Israel's prophecies are fulfilled. If not, then Jesus and his apostles were wrong.

 

[Votto]

On the contrary, some Christians believe Israel's prophecies are fulfilled. If not, then Jesus and his apostles were wrong.

Those that don't believe Jesus is coming again are either not Christian or think that God has already made things right and this is heaven, which is laughable

Naturally, I only speak of most people since you can't fix crazy.

 

[norwegen]

There isn't a single eyewitness in regards to the NT - since it began to be written more then 100 years after this Jesus died.

Incorrect. Paul of Tarsus died in AD 67, or perhaps AD 64.

 

[surada]

Those that don't believe Jesus is coming again are either not Christian or think that God has already made things right and this is heaven, which is laughable

Naturally, I only speak of most people since you can't fix crazy.

Do you believe scripture or not?

 

[surada]

Incorrect. Paul of Tarsus died in AD 67, or perhaps AD 64.

Yes. Paul died before the destruction of the temple.

 

[Votto]

There isn't a single eyewitness in regards to the NT - since it began to be written more then 100 years after this Jesus died.
And it was written by Jews - who were in opposition to the "corrupted Judaism" that was being practiced at the time and upheld by Rabbis.

If you chose to believe into the NT or Old Testimony - then that is your personal choice - and both books don't bear/behold a single witness of any described accounts.

Mark is the earliest of the Gospels written and probably sooner than what you claim since we have no way of proving they were not written by the eyewitnesses. All we can do is date the earliest known manuscript.

Nonetheless, the gospels are the earliest writings about Jesus, which makes them the most relevant since either the eyewitnesses wrote it or someone wrote about what they said.

Conversely, Mohammad coming along 500 some years later and rewriting the gospels after seeing "visions" is what is laughable. Mo actually said that God put some other poor soul on the cross to die in place of Jesus.



Jesus could have written about himself. In fact, he could have written an entire new Bible. However, anyone can do that, as Mohammad proved.

What is hard, however, is to have others write about you after you are dead, and not only that, they lay down their lives for you afterward.

 

[norwegen]

Those that don't believe Jesus is coming again are either not Christian or think that God has already made things right and this is heaven, which is laughable

Naturally, I only speak of most people since you can't fix crazy.

How pitiful if you do not enjoy the more abundant life in the kingdom that Christ promised.

And why would the New Testament say that all was accomplished in the apostles' generation, and you do not? Is reading not something you place a lot of stock in?