John 3:16 means you have to be Christian to get into heaven

[alang1216]

God's love for all mankind is expressed throughout Tanach; the NT offers nothing new in that department.

If God really loved mankind, lobster would be kosher. Why do you think there are so many more Christians than Jews?

 

[Meriweather]

I suggest you study the Torah.
God's love for all mankind is expressed throughout Tanach; the NT offers nothing new in that department.

Yes, I've done a little of that study. Where do you see God's love for all mankind revealed best?

I probably won't be discussing the New Testament with you, just the mention that I see the ongoing revelation of God's goodness and justice as being most clearly portrayed in Hebrew scriptures and God's love most clearly displayed in the New Testament. This should not be taken that God's goodness and justice are not seen in the New Testament--nor taken as God's love is not present in Hebrew scriptures.

 

[Indeependent]

God's love for all mankind is expressed throughout Tanach; the NT offers nothing new in that department.

If God really loved mankind, lobster would be kosher. Why do you think there are so many more Christians than Jews?

Just like mud wrestling.
Football.
Dancing With The Stars.
The Torah states explicitly that the Tribe will always be few in number.

 

[Indeependent]

I suggest you study the Torah.
God's love for all mankind is expressed throughout Tanach; the NT offers nothing new in that department.

Yes, I've done a little of that study. Where do you see God's love for all mankind revealed best?

I probably won't be discussing the New Testament with you, just the mention that I see the ongoing revelation of God's goodness and justice as being most clearly portrayed in Hebrew scriptures and God's love most clearly displayed in the New Testament. This should not be taken that God's goodness and justice are not seen in the New Testament--nor taken as God's love is not present in Hebrew scriptures.

Jeremiah.
Isaiah.
Let me be blunt..,
Everywhere in Tanach where Christians mangle the Tanach, look at the verses before and after those verses that you've been trained not to quote.

 

[Meriweather]

[If God really loved mankind, lobster would be kosher. Why do you think there are so many more Christians than Jews?

For one, Christianity is easier. Recall Jesus noting the healthy have no need of a doctor, and that he came for sinners. I look at it like this. A true practitioner of Judaism, keeps God front and center in every little detail of daily life. It is a very tough discipline and it takes great love and desire to live it. Obedience to God is not just a daily practice but a minute-by-minute practice. Some of us couldn't keep up with that, but we were not forgotten. God came for us as well, we on the B Team are not forgotten.

Jesus asked once, who do you think may develop the greater love, and the answer was the one who receives more.

Possibly.

But the this should in no way dismiss the quality of love shown by those who give most. Neither should be thinking that God loves one or the other most. The thought should be, "Look how different we are, yet see how God loves us all."

 

[Meriweather]

Jeremiah.
Isaiah.
Let me be blunt..,
Everywhere in Tanach where Christians mangle the Tanach, look at the verses before and after those vrses that you've been trained not to quote.

We may have nothing to discuss, not if you believe there are verses the majority of us have been trained not to quote.

I was asking for specific passages, not entire books--sorry for the confusion. Do you have one that particularly strikes you as a beautiful revelation of God's love?

 

[Indeependent]

Jeremiah.
Isaiah.
Let me be blunt..,
Everywhere in Tanach where Christians mangle the Tanach, look at the verses before and after those vrses that you've been trained not to quote.

We may have nothing to discuss, not if you believe there are verses the majority of us have been trained not to quote.

I was asking for specific passages, not entire books--sorry for the confusion. Do you have one that particularly strikes you as a beautiful revelation of God's love?

When I mention verses in Jeremiah that explicitly state keeping the Commandments, I am usually ignored and the OP starts a new Thread...fact.

God loved people.
If someone who accepts Jesus behaves in accordance with the Noachide laws, all is good.

 

[Indeependent]

[If God really loved mankind, lobster would be kosher. Why do you think there are so many more Christians than Jews?

For one, Christianity is easier. Recall Jesus noting the healthy have no need of a doctor, and that he came for sinners. I look at it like this. A true practitioner of Judaism, keeps God front and center in every little detail of daily life. It is a very tough discipline and it takes great love and desire to live it. Obedience to God is not just a daily practice but a minute-by-minute practice. Some of us couldn't keep up with that, but we were not forgotten. God came for us as well, we on the B Team are not forgotten.

Jesus asked once, who do you think may develop the greater love, and the answer was the one who receives more.

Possibly.

But the this should in no way dismiss the quality of love shown by those who give most. Neither should be thinking that God loves one or the other most. The thought should be, "Look how different we are, yet see how God loves us all."

To be a Noachide, study Job.
Nobody gets a free ride in this world.

 

[LittleNipper]

No vicarious atonement Ezekiel 18: 20-22 among others the son does not take the sin of the father and the father does not take the sin of the son all stand on their own....We have discussed this many many times... It is like a bad smell that keeps cropping up from time to time...Christianities sacrifice of Jesus is bogus and an affront to any that can see through this lie...Besides the obvious other reasons...

Christ is the sacrificial lamb. Christ dies once and for all on the cross. The lie is that anyone who sins can be good enough to fulfill every letter of the LAW. If someone beaks one letter of the LAW that individual has broken the entire LAW.

 

[LittleNipper]

Briefly, you are currently so spiritually retarded you think Pope followers (Papist) should be labeled as if they were Christ followers

But you can be comfortable in your delusion since so many have shared that delusion since 380AD
when the Roman Empire made a Trinitarian cult the Roman State "church" and claimed the new Roman State "church" was the real Church.

So which NT Bible is the true one? Which church is the true one?

Rabbi Yom Tov Glaser from Aish.com
Why God Hates Religion
He's brutally honest regarding religion in general and post-Enlightenment Judaism.

He's on Facebook and has 75 videos on YouTube.

This guy is so much more enlightened biblically The Jewish Jesus with Rabbi Kirt Schneider

The moment someone mentions hell, I'm out.

Where did Hitler go? Was Hitler living in accordance to God's will? Did Hitler bless those that cursed him and treat everyone as equals? Was Hitler a good Samaritan? So, where is Hitler now?

 

[Meriweather]

To be a Noachide, study Job.
Nobody gets a free ride in this world.

Yes, the Book of Job is wonderful, but it does not hold a candle to books like Jeremiah and Isaiah (not to mention several others).

Agreed. No one gets a free wide in this world. It is only a very small segment of Christianity who claims this. Perhaps compare them to Jews who believe Noachide laws are good enough. As for many of us: Good enough never is.

 

[Indeependent]

Briefly, you are currently so spiritually retarded you think Pope followers (Papist) should be labeled as if they were Christ followers

But you can be comfortable in your delusion since so many have shared that delusion since 380AD
when the Roman Empire made a Trinitarian cult the Roman State "church" and claimed the new Roman State "church" was the real Church.

So which NT Bible is the true one? Which church is the true one?

Rabbi Yom Tov Glaser from Aish.com
Why God Hates Religion
He's brutally honest regarding religion in general and post-Enlightenment Judaism.

He's on Facebook and has 75 videos on YouTube.

This guy is so much more enlightened biblically The Jewish Jesus with Rabbi Kirt Schneider

The moment someone mentions hell, I'm out.

Where did Hitler go? Was Hitler living in accordance to God's will? Did Hitler bless those that cursed him and treat everyone as equals? Was Hitler a good Samaritan? So, where is Hitler now?

I can imagine that Hitler's soul experienced excruciating pain and embarrassment.
It either evaporated after an indeterminate time or was sent back to make amends.

 

[Indeependent]

To be a Noachide, study Job.
Nobody gets a free ride in this world.

Yes, the Book of Job is wonderful, but it does not hold a candle to books like Jeremiah and Isaiah (not to mention several others).

Agreed. No one gets a free wide in this world. It is only a very small segment of Christianity who claims this. Perhaps compare them to Jews who believe Noachide laws are good enough. As for many of us: Good enough never is.

Isaiah and Jeremiah are for Jews.
Job is for non-Jews.
There is not one chapter in Isaiah or Jeremiah that you can quote where there isn't a verse that implores Mitzvah observance.

 

[Meriweather]

The lie is that anyone who sins can be good enough to fulfill every letter of the LAW. If someone beaks one letter of the LAW that individual has broken the entire LAW.

Jesus said, "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander.…" He was insisting that what goes into the mouth (dietary laws) is less important than what comes from the heart. He was speaking to some in the ruling class who had both the ways and means to keep dietary law and perhaps did so faithfully. However, simply observing dietary law will not prevent someone from doing evil. Nor will a break in dietary law cause someone to do an evil deed.

Evil comes from the heart, first as evil thoughts. I believe Jesus would have supported the idea:

Be careful of your thoughts, for your thoughts become your words.
Be careful of your words, for your words become your actions.
Be careful of your actions, for your actions become your habits.
Be careful of your habits, for your habits become your character.
Be careful of your character, for your character becomes your destiny.

Notice, this does not start out, "Be careful of what you eat..."

On the other hand: Watching what you eat out of obedience to God begins with the thought of being obedient to God. Obedience to God can become our destiny.

 

[Indeependent]

The lie is that anyone who sins can be good enough to fulfill every letter of the LAW. If someone beaks one letter of the LAW that individual has broken the entire LAW.

Jesus said, "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander.…" He was insisting that what goes into the mouth (dietary laws) is less important than what comes from the heart. He was speaking to some in the ruling class who had both the ways and means to keep dietary law and perhaps did so faithfully. However, simply observing dietary law will not prevent someone from doing evil. Nor will a break in dietary law cause someone to do an evil deed.

Evil comes from the heart, first as evil thoughts. I believe Jesus would have supported the idea:

Be careful of your thoughts, for your thoughts become your words.
Be careful of your words, for your words become your actions.
Be careful of your actions, for your actions become your habits.
Be careful of your habits, for your habits become your character.
Be careful of your character, for your character becomes your destiny.

Notice, this does not start out, "Be careful of what you eat..."

On the other hand: Watching what you eat out of obedience to God begins with the thought of being obedient to God. Obedience to God can become our destiny.

Oh, please...you can't preach to me until you prove that the Source (Tanach) supports NT.

I want an honest conversation as I have zero desire to change your beliefs.

Please quote Tanach and I'll show you the verse(s) you are are omitting.

 

[hobelim]

The lie is that anyone who sins can be good enough to fulfill every letter of the LAW. If someone beaks one letter of the LAW that individual has broken the entire LAW.

Jesus said, "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander.…" He was insisting that what goes into the mouth (dietary laws) is less important than what comes from the heart. He was speaking to some in the ruling class who had both the ways and means to keep dietary law and perhaps did so faithfully. However, simply observing dietary law will not prevent someone from doing evil. Nor will a break in dietary law cause someone to do an evil deed.

Evil comes from the heart, first as evil thoughts. I believe Jesus would have supported the idea:

Be careful of your thoughts, for your thoughts become your words.
Be careful of your words, for your words become your actions.
Be careful of your actions, for your actions become your habits.
Be careful of your habits, for your habits become your character.
Be careful of your character, for your character becomes your destiny.

Notice, this does not start out, "Be careful of what you eat..."

On the other hand: Watching what you eat out of obedience to God begins with the thought of being obedient to God. Obedience to God can become our destiny.

A person cannot conform to a literal interpretation of the dietary laws without violating the deeper implications of the same exact laws.

For instance, if one accepts the teaching that kosher law is a menu about what is ok or not to eat they are violating the significant deeper implications of the law which prohibits eating the flesh of swine who do not ruminate because the premies that a person can become holy or defiled by eating or refraining from certain food is the flesh of swine who do not ruminate.

 

[Meriweather]

Isaiah and Jeremiah are for Jews.
Job is for non-Jews.

Well, we certainly disagree on this. Would you accept an argument whereby Isaiah and Jeremiah were only writing to the people of his own time and not for modern age Jews? Nor do I accept an argument these books are only for Jews.

There is not one chapter in Isaiah or Jeremiah that you can quote where there isn't a verse that implores Mitzvah observance.

Since the bottom line of Mitzvah observance is obedience to God as that is what helps make the individual sparkle (so-to-speak) both books are a blessing to all who love God.

More, Jeremiah and Isaiah tell the story of God's interaction with people in that time. People who are interested in all God does cannot help but love these books.

Isaiah contains a timeless truth, a reminder for all for all seasons: Listen carefully, but you shall not understand. Look intently but you shall not see.

 

[Indeependent]

The lie is that anyone who sins can be good enough to fulfill every letter of the LAW. If someone beaks one letter of the LAW that individual has broken the entire LAW.

Jesus said, "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander.…" He was insisting that what goes into the mouth (dietary laws) is less important than what comes from the heart. He was speaking to some in the ruling class who had both the ways and means to keep dietary law and perhaps did so faithfully. However, simply observing dietary law will not prevent someone from doing evil. Nor will a break in dietary law cause someone to do an evil deed.

Evil comes from the heart, first as evil thoughts. I believe Jesus would have supported the idea:

Be careful of your thoughts, for your thoughts become your words.
Be careful of your words, for your words become your actions.
Be careful of your actions, for your actions become your habits.
Be careful of your habits, for your habits become your character.
Be careful of your character, for your character becomes your destiny.

Notice, this does not start out, "Be careful of what you eat..."

On the other hand: Watching what you eat out of obedience to God begins with the thought of being obedient to God. Obedience to God can become our destiny.

A person cannot conform to a literal interpretation of the dietary laws without violating the deeper implications of the same exact laws.

For instance, if one accepts the teaching that kosher law is a menu about what is ok or not to eat they are violating the significant deeper implications of the law which prohibits eating the flesh of swine who do not ruminate because the premies that a person can become holy or defiled by eating or refraining from certain food is the flesh of swine who do not ruminate.

Uh huh.
You misquoted once today; try not to fertilize the lawn too much.

 

[Indeependent]

Isaiah and Jeremiah are for Jews.
Job is for non-Jews.

Well, we certainly disagree on this. Would you accept an argument whereby Isaiah and Jeremiah were only writing to the people of his own time and not for modern age Jews? Nor do I accept an argument these books are only for Jews.

There is not one chapter in Isaiah or Jeremiah that you can quote where there isn't a verse that implores Mitzvah observance.

Since the bottom line of Mitzvah observance is obedience to God as that is what helps make the individual sparkle (so-to-speak) both books are a blessing to all who love God.

More, Jeremiah and Isaiah tell the story of God's interaction with people in that time. People who are interested in all God does cannot help but love these books.

Isaiah contains a timeless truth, a reminder for all for all seasons: Listen carefully, but you shall not understand. Look intently but you shall not see.

A prophecy in Tanach limited to a place and time?
There are 2 million Jews on Earth at the moment who would disagree with that.
In fact, where do you see this?
They are both explicitly stating that Jews bring about their own tragedies by ignoring God's recipe for life.
Not one verse in either is intended for anyone but the Jew.
But it's almost impossible to see that when you skip Tanach and jump directly into the NT.

 

[Meriweather]

Oh, please...you can't preach to me until you prove that the Source (Tanach) supports NT.

I want an honest conversation as I have zero desire to change your beliefs.

Please quote Tanach and I'll show you the verse(s) you are are omitting.

Excuse me. How is a conversation I entered into with Little Nipper preaching to you? Further, I have no interest in proving the Tanach supports the New Testament. With Little Nipper, I was referencing material in the New Testament, not anything in the Tanach.

You are more than welcome to introduce Tanach passages. As I did not even quote the Tanach, you might (correctly) point out that I omitted everything in the Tanach. Which I did.