John 3:16 means you have to be Christian to get into heaven

[irosie91]

sunday school bullshit------along with the Easter Bunny and Jelly beans

 

[Indeependent]

No vicarious atonement Ezekiel 18: 20-22 among others the son does not take the sin of the father and the father does not take the sin of the son all stand on their own....We have discussed this many many times... It is like a bad smell that keeps cropping up from time to time...Christianities sacrifice of Jesus is bogus and an affront to any that can see through this lie...Besides the obvious other reasons...

Early on, through Abraham, God said God would provide the sacrifice. And praise God. God did. Some 2000 years ago.

15 The Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them over and over again by His messengers
because He had compassion on His people and His dwelling place.
16 But they continued to jest regarding the messengers of God, despising His word and making fun of His prophets
until the wrath of the Lord came up against His people, until there was no remedy.
2 Chronicles 36

Too bad the Hebrew establishment invariably rejected God's words and messengers .... and ultimately rejected God's Son.

But ..... Some Hebrews did accept God's messengers and the God-sent Messiah.

"the common people heard Him gladly" .......... and of course for at least a couple of decades the early Church was all Hebrews.

So the Men of the Great Assembly edited a book into the Tanach to make themselves irrelevant?
I think you better brush up on your history of how the Tanach was formulated before post this nonsense.

 

[Indeependent]

sunday school bullshit------along with the Easter Bunny and Jelly beans

This Prewett is an idiot.

 

[shimon]

No vicarious atonement Ezekiel 18: 20-22 among others the son does not take the sin of the father and the father does not take the sin of the son all stand on their own....We have discussed this many many times... It is like a bad smell that keeps cropping up from time to time...Christianities sacrifice of Jesus is bogus and an affront to any that can see through this lie...Besides the obvious other reasons...

Christ is the sacrificial lamb. Christ dies once and for all on the cross. The lie is that anyone who sins can be good enough to fulfill every letter of the LAW. If someone beaks one letter of the LAW that individual has broken the entire LAW.

We have discussed this many times the sacrificial lamb was one of the gods of Egypt it was an idol the Israelites showed the Egyptians by eating it and consuming it during the time before Their exodus that it had no power over them just like your Jesus has no power over anyone or anything today.. Be careful claiming he is the sacrificial lamb as I will show you will this could never be true and by your claiming this for him you are saying he is the worthless Idol of the Egyptians which if any think about it is extremely close to the truth as much of the New Testament was borrowed from ancient Egyptian beliefs and customs....Once again there is no vicarious atonement and all stand on his or her sins...

 

[shimon]

No vicarious atonement Ezekiel 18: 20-22 among others the son does not take the sin of the father and the father does not take the sin of the son all stand on their own....We have discussed this many many times... It is like a bad smell that keeps cropping up from time to time...Christianities sacrifice of Jesus is bogus and an affront to any that can see through this lie...Besides the obvious other reasons...

Early on, through Abraham, God said God would provide the sacrifice. And praise God. God did. Some 2000 years ago.

15 The Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them over and over again by His messengers
because He had compassion on His people and His dwelling place.
16 But they continued to jest regarding the messengers of God, despising His word and making fun of His prophets
until the wrath of the Lord came up against His people, until there was no remedy.
2 Chronicles 36

Too bad the Hebrew establishment invariably rejected God's words and messengers .... and ultimately rejected God's Son.

But ..... Some Hebrews did accept God's messengers and the God-sent Messiah.

"the common people heard Him gladly" .......... and of course for at least a couple of decades the early Church was all Hebrews.

I could have fun with this John but remember Israel is Gds son his first born as per Exodus 4 ...Others were Gds son as well like David etc etc...Truly Gds son misbehaved at times no doubt but just like a father chastises his children he eventually forgives them and accepts them that is why Gds son has RETURNED back to his land that gd gave him blowing away the replacement theology of Christianity..Being a son of gd is to behave and act like gd ..It is not to be a physical descendant of him that is why the pagans who claimed Jesus as the literal son of God could not understand the Hebrew concept... This also shows truthfully that anything claimed for Jesus by the writers of the New Testament is full of holes and hot air as being a literal son of god is a pagan concept many sons of gods were walking around the earth according to various Greek, Roman etc etc etc themes...

 

[ninja007]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Is there any support in the Bible for the opposite position, that a man or woman can obtain salvation without belief in Christ?

Because this is a pretty common belief, even among Christians, and I think it is wrong.

Another passage where Christ said,
''no one comes to the Father, but through me'' which implies what you are claiming but it also could simply mean that He is the judge of all mankind, so whether you are a Jew or Buddhist or Muslim or Christian you will still stand before Christ on judgement day, and in another passage Christ says He will judge Christians as Christians, and all others who are not Christian will be judged by the Law.... so basically by ones ''good works'' or evil doings.... because He also says in scripture that He will separate the sheep from the goats when He is judging the people within Nations....if they fed the poor, helped the stranger, visited the person in prison, took care of the sick etc He took them with Him or gave them a pass to Heaven, if they did not, then they went to be with Satan, their father.... All of that judgement included every body, including people of all religions or no religion at all...

SO true Christians are promised ever lasting life through grace and get to Heaven through their belief in their savior, Jesus Christ, but ALL others still have a chance on judgement day, to get a pass in to Heaven by Christ's mercy and by the Law.....when He judges them...

SO no body goes to heaven but through Christ, those who believe and those who may not....cuz He judges all....regardless of religion....

is how I view it....of course, I could be wrong!

wrong. Only those that accept Jesus as their Savior NOW are going to Heaven- no other religions, no second chances. After death is the judgement.

 

[shimon]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Is there any support in the Bible for the opposite position, that a man or woman can obtain salvation without belief in Christ?

Because this is a pretty common belief, even among Christians, and I think it is wrong.

Another passage where Christ said,
''no one comes to the Father, but through me'' which implies what you are claiming but it also could simply mean that He is the judge of all mankind, so whether you are a Jew or Buddhist or Muslim or Christian you will still stand before Christ on judgement day, and in another passage Christ says He will judge Christians as Christians, and all others who are not Christian will be judged by the Law.... so basically by ones ''good works'' or evil doings.... because He also says in scripture that He will separate the sheep from the goats when He is judging the people within Nations....if they fed the poor, helped the stranger, visited the person in prison, took care of the sick etc He took them with Him or gave them a pass to Heaven, if they did not, then they went to be with Satan, their father.... All of that judgement included every body, including people of all religions or no religion at all...

SO true Christians are promised ever lasting life through grace and get to Heaven through their belief in their savior, Jesus Christ, but ALL others still have a chance on judgement day, to get a pass in to Heaven by Christ's mercy and by the Law.....when He judges them...

SO no body goes to heaven but through Christ, those who believe and those who may not....cuz He judges all....regardless of religion....

is how I view it....of course, I could be wrong!

wrong. Only those that accept Jesus as their Savior NOW are going to Heaven- no other religions, no second chances. After death is the judgement.

Hardly.... Isaiah 45 says it all...It says only gd of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is the saviour as per verse 17 and that you who set up your wooden idol to a strange god have no power or knowledge and that we are to get far away from your nonsense....There are other places in scripture that say it best although I have found many who twist and turn trying to put their Jesus( Idol) where he does not belong.... No if any are truthfull and read those scriptures plainly without guile then it is rather obvious what they are pointing out...

 

[JohnPrewett]

No vicarious atonement Ezekiel 18: 20-22 among others the son does not take the sin of the father and the father does not take the sin of the son all stand on their own....We have discussed this many many times... It is like a bad smell that keeps cropping up from time to time...Christianities sacrifice of Jesus is bogus and an affront to any that can see through this lie...Besides the obvious other reasons...

Early on, through Abraham, God said God would provide the sacrifice. And praise God. God did. Some 2000 years ago.

15 The Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them over and over again by His messengers
because He had compassion on His people and His dwelling place.
16 But they continued to jest regarding the messengers of God, despising His word and making fun of His prophets
until the wrath of the Lord came up against His people, until there was no remedy.
2 Chronicles 36

Too bad the Hebrew establishment invariably rejected God's words and messengers .... and ultimately rejected God's Son.

But ..... Some Hebrews did accept God's messengers and the God-sent Messiah.

"the common people heard Him gladly" .......... and of course for at least a couple of decades the early Church was all Hebrews.

So the Men of the Great Assembly edited a book into the Tanach to make themselves irrelevant?
I think you better brush up on your history of how the Tanach was formulated before post this nonsense.

Your disbelief in Hebrew "scripture" is noted.

 

[JohnPrewett]

It is easy to see why some-many Jews then and now hated Jesus. For instance:

Jesus heals the servant of a Roman officer ..... and applauds the faith of the officer (with no hint the officer ever read the Law).
then to top it off, Jesus has the nerve to predict that some Gentiles would be saved with Abe, Issac and Jacob .... and some Jews would be lost.










5 And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, entreating Him, 6 and saying,
“Lord, my servant is lying at home, sick with paralysis, terribly tormented.”

7 Jesus said to him, “I will come and heal him.”

8 The centurion answered and said, “Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But speak the word only, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this man, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard it, He was amazed and said to those who followed, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith, no, not in Israel.

11 And I say to you that many will come from the east and west and will dine with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the sons of the kingdom will be thrown out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

 

[shimon]

It is easy to see why some-many Jews then and now hated Jesus. For instance:

Jesus heals the servant of a Roman officer ..... and applauds the faith of the officer (with no hint the officer ever read the Law).
then to top it off, Jesus has the nerve to predict that some Gentiles would be saved with Abe, Issac and Jacob .... and some Jews would be lost.










5 And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, entreating Him, 6 and saying,
“Lord, my servant is lying at home, sick with paralysis, terribly tormented.”

7 Jesus said to him, “I will come and heal him.”

8 The centurion answered and said, “Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But speak the word only, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this man, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard it, He was amazed and said to those who followed, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith, no, not in Israel.

11 And I say to you that many will come from the east and west and will dine with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the sons of the kingdom will be thrown out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

You have it completely backwards John.. Gds sons the Israeli s In Israel just injected stem cells in rats and made them walk again..These techniques and cures will be applied to humans not long from now.. Look it up it was just in the news... They are working hard to cure all the ills not just paralysis...These are not bogus claims like is made in the New Testament for Deeds that Jesus supposedly did .. Those are self testimony ... The fruits of Gds sons in Israel are spreading to all four corners of the globe... They are the ones leading the charge to cure everything they are behaving in gd like manner therefore behaving as sons of gd...Jesus never accomplished the things they are doing you follow a false vision and once again there is still no vicarious atonement...

 

[Indeependent]

No vicarious atonement Ezekiel 18: 20-22 among others the son does not take the sin of the father and the father does not take the sin of the son all stand on their own....We have discussed this many many times... It is like a bad smell that keeps cropping up from time to time...Christianities sacrifice of Jesus is bogus and an affront to any that can see through this lie...Besides the obvious other reasons...

Early on, through Abraham, God said God would provide the sacrifice. And praise God. God did. Some 2000 years ago.

15 The Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them over and over again by His messengers
because He had compassion on His people and His dwelling place.
16 But they continued to jest regarding the messengers of God, despising His word and making fun of His prophets
until the wrath of the Lord came up against His people, until there was no remedy.
2 Chronicles 36

Too bad the Hebrew establishment invariably rejected God's words and messengers .... and ultimately rejected God's Son.

But ..... Some Hebrews did accept God's messengers and the God-sent Messiah.

"the common people heard Him gladly" .......... and of course for at least a couple of decades the early Church was all Hebrews.

So the Men of the Great Assembly edited a book into the Tanach to make themselves irrelevant?
I think you better brush up on your history of how the Tanach was formulated before post this nonsense.

Your disbelief in Hebrew "scripture" is noted.

Thanks for admitting you don't know who cannonized Chronicles.
But I do realize Christians don't include context in their religious education.
If they did, the Church would collapse in a scant few years.

 

[Indeependent]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Is there any support in the Bible for the opposite position, that a man or woman can obtain salvation without belief in Christ?

Because this is a pretty common belief, even among Christians, and I think it is wrong.

Another passage where Christ said,
''no one comes to the Father, but through me'' which implies what you are claiming but it also could simply mean that He is the judge of all mankind, so whether you are a Jew or Buddhist or Muslim or Christian you will still stand before Christ on judgement day, and in another passage Christ says He will judge Christians as Christians, and all others who are not Christian will be judged by the Law.... so basically by ones ''good works'' or evil doings.... because He also says in scripture that He will separate the sheep from the goats when He is judging the people within Nations....if they fed the poor, helped the stranger, visited the person in prison, took care of the sick etc He took them with Him or gave them a pass to Heaven, if they did not, then they went to be with Satan, their father.... All of that judgement included every body, including people of all religions or no religion at all...

SO true Christians are promised ever lasting life through grace and get to Heaven through their belief in their savior, Jesus Christ, but ALL others still have a chance on judgement day, to get a pass in to Heaven by Christ's mercy and by the Law.....when He judges them...

SO no body goes to heaven but through Christ, those who believe and those who may not....cuz He judges all....regardless of religion....

is how I view it....of course, I could be wrong!

wrong. Only those that accept Jesus as their Savior NOW are going to Heaven- no other religions, no second chances. After death is the judgement.

Prove it like the NT does...
Using Tanach.
And we will crush you.

 

[alang1216]

What became of all the good people who lived before Jesus? Was there no path to heaven for them?

Jesus preached to the souls in hell .....

So God sent people born before Jesus, both good and bad, to hell? Doesn't sound like a just system to me. They had a chance to accept Jesus and be forgiven but they still served time in hell.

 

[alang1216]

Absorb this...
The spiritual forces that keep the universe operating require input.
The input is studying the blueprint of creation.
The moment the blueprint of creation is ignored, creation ceases to exist.

Did this apply equally to everyone on the planet at the time? Were the 'spiritual forces' of the millions of Chinese and Native Americans 'input'?

Hence, the generation of the flood.
God supplied total charity.
Mankind, with the exception of one unappreciated human, stopped supplying the spiritual forces with fuel.
God decided to start all over with that person.
That person, bridled with only 7 common sense orders, wound up becoming an alcoholic.

Was the flood a literal global event? Strange there is no evidence for it. How many babies died during the flood?

Avraham met Noach and heard the story of the flood.
Avraham realized how merciful God had to be to not scrap the whole universe and instead forge on.

Out of pure kindness, God killed everyone on the planet except a very few. God gave man free will and then punished him for using it.

Remember that God doesn't need anything; whatever God sustains is done out of pure kindness.

Except he needs to be worshiped, sacrificed to, and obeyed. Pretty demanding for someone who doesn't need anything.

 

[hobelim]

The lie is that anyone who sins can be good enough to fulfill every letter of the LAW. If someone beaks one letter of the LAW that individual has broken the entire LAW.

Jesus said, "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander.…" He was insisting that what goes into the mouth (dietary laws) is less important than what comes from the heart. He was speaking to some in the ruling class who had both the ways and means to keep dietary law and perhaps did so faithfully. However, simply observing dietary law will not prevent someone from doing evil. Nor will a break in dietary law cause someone to do an evil deed.

Evil comes from the heart, first as evil thoughts. I believe Jesus would have supported the idea:

Be careful of your thoughts, for your thoughts become your words.
Be careful of your words, for your words become your actions.
Be careful of your actions, for your actions become your habits.
Be careful of your habits, for your habits become your character.
Be careful of your character, for your character becomes your destiny.

Notice, this does not start out, "Be careful of what you eat..."

On the other hand: Watching what you eat out of obedience to God begins with the thought of being obedient to God. Obedience to God can become our destiny.

A person cannot conform to a literal interpretation of the dietary laws without violating the deeper implications of the same exact laws.

For instance, if one accepts the teaching that kosher law is a menu about what is ok or not to eat they are violating the significant deeper implications of the law which prohibits eating the flesh of swine who do not ruminate because the premies that a person can become holy or defiled by eating or refraining from certain food is the flesh of swine who do not ruminate.

Uh huh.
You misquoted once today; try not to fertilize the lawn too much.

I will tell you something. Try to hear.

Your sin is as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field.

Prove it with context.
You can't possibly win this.

lol....This isn't a contest. between you and me. Its more like I'm putting a few coins in your empty cup while you are sitting in front of a liquor store, reeking of cheap wine, dressed in filthy rags..


The only way for you to win is to sober up, take a bath, find something that doesn't smell bad to wear at the salvation army, and get a decent job you lazy bum.

 

[hobelim]

The Jews are the chosen people they say. Chosen for what besides a whole lot of suffering? I guess when you think about it, if they didn't suffer they'd assimilate. Would that be so terrible?

As I mentioned before, to be a people set apart, to be a light to the nations. How would you feel about yourself if you knew God commanded for you to be apart and you decided that was too much trouble and you assimilated?

Its not about being set apart or assimilated as much as it is about being holy, as God is holy, or not.


If he was true to his professed dedication to God he would be revealing the light of the law to the nations, not keeping it to himself and referring them to some nonexistent Noachide laws for dingbats.

The problem has been that he cannot teach what he doesn't understand.

And he will never understand the hidden purpose or wisdom of God in giving the law without acknowledging that Jesus was right.

Kosher law is not about what you serve for dinner to eat, but what you teach people to learn whether Jew or Gentile..

 

[xotoxi]

So a Christian book says you have to be Christian to get into heaven

Color me surprised

Many parts of the Bible are like reading Breitbart.

Those who like Breitbart will agree with me.

Those who don't like Breitbart will understand what I mean.

 

[Indeependent]

Absorb this...
The spiritual forces that keep the universe operating require input.
The input is studying the blueprint of creation.
The moment the blueprint of creation is ignored, creation ceases to exist.

Did this apply equally to everyone on the planet at the time? Were the 'spiritual forces' of the millions of Chinese and Native Americans 'input'?

Hence, the generation of the flood.
God supplied total charity.
Mankind, with the exception of one unappreciated human, stopped supplying the spiritual forces with fuel.
God decided to start all over with that person.
That person, bridled with only 7 common sense orders, wound up becoming an alcoholic.

Was the flood a literal global event? Strange there is no evidence for it. How many babies died during the flood?

Avraham met Noach and heard the story of the flood.
Avraham realized how merciful God had to be to not scrap the whole universe and instead forge on.

Out of pure kindness, God killed everyone on the planet except a very few. God gave man free will and then punished him for using it.

Remember that God doesn't need anything; whatever God sustains is done out of pure kindness.

Except he needs to be worshiped, sacrificed to, and obeyed. Pretty demanding for someone who doesn't need anything.

Read the verses prior to God deciding on the flood.
Bodies of water amd subterranean waters are held in check by the Laws of Physics created by God.
God created those Laws so non-aquatic beings could exist.
When humans no longer fulfill their purpose, there's no reason for God to maintain those laws.
Prior to the giving of the Torah (a last resort), all of mankind was responsible for feeding the spiritual forces.
The Torah of Moses replaced the Torah of Noach which replaced the Torah of Adam.
Each phase of mankind produces a new paradigm to prevent the collaps of the system.
God allows at least 4 major non-Torah religions in order to prevent each from claiming they're the ONE.
Buddism and Hinduism don't claim to be the successor to Judaism.

 

[Indeependent]

The Jews are the chosen people they say. Chosen for what besides a whole lot of suffering? I guess when you think about it, if they didn't suffer they'd assimilate. Would that be so terrible?

As I mentioned before, to be a people set apart, to be a light to the nations. How would you feel about yourself if you knew God commanded for you to be apart and you decided that was too much trouble and you assimilated?

Its not about being set apart or assimilated as much as it is about being holy, as God is holy, or not.


If he was true to his professed dedication to God he would be revealing the light of the law to the nations, not keeping it to himself and referring them to some nonexistent Noachide laws for dingbats.

The problem has been that he cannot teach what he doesn't understand.

And he will never understand the hidden purpose of God in giving the law without acknowledging that Jesus was right.

Kosher law is not about what you serve for dinner to eat, but what you teach people to learn whether Jew or Gentile..

You have to prove you case the way the NT does...you fail once again.

 

[Indeependent]

So a Christian book says you have to be Christian to get into heaven

Color me surprised

Many parts of the Bible are like reading Breitbart.

Those who like Breitbart will agree with me.

Those who don't like Breitbart will understand what I mean.

Elaborate.