John 3:16 means you have to be Christian to get into heaven

[Indeependent]

Do the research...the entire history of the Jews is on the Internet.

No. The entire history of the Jews will never be known.

The same goes for secular history.

 

[Indeependent]

I want to know which rabbis in which generation pulled the wool over millions of people by imposing upon them a lifestyle out of nowhere.

This is your question based on nothing I have said.

Do the research...the entire history of the Jews is on the Internet.

From what I heard, the history sounds a lot like the long list of maledictions promised by Moses for not conforming to the way that he taught to follow the law.

Maybe thats just a coincidence.....

can you expand on that idea ^^^^ ??? I do not recall any "MALEDICTIONS"
attributed to Moses

And what come after the Admonition?
But what comes after dismisses the New Convenant Story.

 

[alang1216]

There are no atheists in heaven or hell ...

are you saying all atheist are evil ... whatever may be the judgement for retribution for anyone would be hell.

I have never in my life encountered ANYTHING that was undoubtedly supernatural. Hence I don't believe in God, heaven, or hell. If I die and wake up in either place, imagine my surprise, I'll have to reassess my belief in God and the supernatural. As a non-believer I'm not at all worried of course but if I turn out to be wrong I'm sure I'll end up in the good place.

 

[irosie91]

I want to know which rabbis in which generation pulled the wool over millions of people by imposing upon them a lifestyle out of nowhere.

This is your question based on nothing I have said.

Do the research...the entire history of the Jews is on the Internet.

From what I heard, the history sounds a lot like the long list of maledictions promised by Moses for not conforming to the way that he taught to follow the law.

Maybe thats just a coincidence.....

can you expand on that idea ^^^^ ??? I do not recall any "MALEDICTIONS"
attributed to Moses

And what come after the Admonition?
But what comes after dismisses the New Convenant Story.

I don't know

 

[hobelim]

This is your question based on nothing I have said.

Do the research...the entire history of the Jews is on the Internet.

From what I heard, the history sounds a lot like the long list of maledictions promised by Moses for not conforming to the way that he taught to follow the law.

Maybe thats just a coincidence.....

can you expand on that idea ^^^^ ??? I do not recall any "MALEDICTIONS"
attributed to Moses

And what come after the Admonition?
But what comes after dismisses the New Convenant Story.

I don't know

According to the story eventually someone has the bright idea that there has to be a better way. Then the truth, so long unfruitful, will finally come to light; there will no longer be any curse, hell will give up those in its keeping, and the death itself will be no more.

Then everyone will live happily ever after, except for those left behind, of course, obstinately stuck in the past.

 

[Indeependent]

This is your question based on nothing I have said.

Do the research...the entire history of the Jews is on the Internet.

From what I heard, the history sounds a lot like the long list of maledictions promised by Moses for not conforming to the way that he taught to follow the law.

Maybe thats just a coincidence.....

can you expand on that idea ^^^^ ??? I do not recall any "MALEDICTIONS"
attributed to Moses

And what come after the Admonition?
But what comes after dismisses the New Convenant Story.

I don't know

The Jews will return to God, perform the Commandments and rebuild the Temple.
Christians are hypnotized to ignore many verses in the Torah and Tanach overall.
They have nothing.

 

[irosie91]

Do the research...the entire history of the Jews is on the Internet.

From what I heard, the history sounds a lot like the long list of maledictions promised by Moses for not conforming to the way that he taught to follow the law.

Maybe thats just a coincidence.....

can you expand on that idea ^^^^ ??? I do not recall any "MALEDICTIONS"
attributed to Moses

And what come after the Admonition?
But what comes after dismisses the New Convenant Story.

I don't know

The Jews will return to God, perform the Commandments and rebuild the Temple.
Christians are hypnotized to ignore many verses in the Torah and Tanach overall.
They have nothing.

they do not read it like its a book--------they read it like
it's GRIMM's Fairy Tales or Snow White and the seven
dwarfs

 

[irosie91]

Do the research...the entire history of the Jews is on the Internet.

No. The entire history of the Jews will never be known.

The same goes for secular history.

only the dead know brooklyn

 

[hobelim]

Do the research...the entire history of the Jews is on the Internet.

From what I heard, the history sounds a lot like the long list of maledictions promised by Moses for not conforming to the way that he taught to follow the law.

Maybe thats just a coincidence.....

can you expand on that idea ^^^^ ??? I do not recall any "MALEDICTIONS"
attributed to Moses

And what come after the Admonition?
But what comes after dismisses the New Convenant Story.

I don't know

The Jews will return to God, perform the Commandments and rebuild the Temple.
Christians are hypnotized to ignore many verses in the Torah and Tanach overall.
They have nothing.

For as long as you believe that the sanctuary of God is a man made temple and sacrificing farm animals is performing the commandments you will never find God.

 

[BreezeWood]

From what I heard, the history sounds a lot like the long list of maledictions promised by Moses for not conforming to the way that he taught to follow the law.

Maybe thats just a coincidence.....

can you expand on that idea ^^^^ ??? I do not recall any "MALEDICTIONS"
attributed to Moses

And what come after the Admonition?
But what comes after dismisses the New Convenant Story.

I don't know

The Jews will return to God, perform the Commandments and rebuild the Temple.
Christians are hypnotized to ignore many verses in the Torah and Tanach overall.
They have nothing.

For as long as you believe that the sanctuary of God is a man made temple and sacrificing farm animals is performing the commandments you will never find God.

.

For as long as you believe that the sanctuary of God is a man made temple and sacrificing farm animals is performing the commandments you will never find God.

the recorded history for the desert religions speaks for itself, their books are corruptions filled with forgeries - whatever made them believe there was no more to learn ...

 

[irosie91]

From what I heard, the history sounds a lot like the long list of maledictions promised by Moses for not conforming to the way that he taught to follow the law.

Maybe thats just a coincidence.....

can you expand on that idea ^^^^ ??? I do not recall any "MALEDICTIONS"
attributed to Moses

And what come after the Admonition?
But what comes after dismisses the New Convenant Story.

I don't know

The Jews will return to God, perform the Commandments and rebuild the Temple.
Christians are hypnotized to ignore many verses in the Torah and Tanach overall.
They have nothing.

For as long as you believe that the sanctuary of God is a man made temple and sacrificing farm animals is performing the commandments you will never find God.

for as long as you believe that hanging tinsel on a tree constitutes "culture"----you will never progress beyond
the cosmic gutter

 

[hobelim]

can you expand on that idea ^^^^ ??? I do not recall any "MALEDICTIONS"
attributed to Moses

And what come after the Admonition?
But what comes after dismisses the New Convenant Story.

I don't know

The Jews will return to God, perform the Commandments and rebuild the Temple.
Christians are hypnotized to ignore many verses in the Torah and Tanach overall.
They have nothing.

For as long as you believe that the sanctuary of God is a man made temple and sacrificing farm animals is performing the commandments you will never find God.

for as long as you believe that hanging tinsel on a tree constitutes "culture"----you will never progress beyond
the cosmic gutter

fuggedaboutit Rosie. "Culture" is not your strong suit.

 

[JohnPrewett]

I'm confident "hell" was not/is not a place of pain.
Just something of a holding pen. I'm confident EVERYONE who ever lived has been or will be given opportunity to be saved.

So, as a non-believer, once I'm dead I'll go to hell and be given opportunity to be saved? I'm a non-believer because I don't see evidence for God but once I'm dead it will be obvious there is a God won't it? I'd guess everyone will accept the obvious and be saved. If that is the plan why doesn't God reveal himself in this world?

YOU have had opportunity to be saved. If you died right now, I believe you would sleep.
Most Christians would say you no longer have any hope. Most Christians would cite "die once and after that the judgement"

I've been a believer and studied bible for over 40 years. ONLY in past couple of years have I come to disagree with Most Christians about "die once and after that the judgement"

My thinking changed due to notice of "Women received their dead raised to life again" Heb 11:35 ...... and of course Lazarus died twice.

So .... I believe a "dead" (sleeping) unbeliever may get another chance.

I advise stop thinking of word "hell" ......... it is irrelevant. What's relevant is that "death" is really "sleep" (SO SAID JESUS) ....

and, Jesus has (thus can do it again) wakened people from that "sleep" and brought them back into this world. (Heb 11:35)

So if I had lived and died before Jesus I'd still get a chance to be saved. Would I know I'm asleep/dead and therefore know with certainty who Jesus is? Somehow that doesn't seem very fair.

You suffer from a morbid compulsion to find fault with God..... instead of looking for your own fault and seeking a remedy for that.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"If one desires this separation, then one may choose it."

And if that is an informed choice based on the evil, immoral piece of shit described as god in the Bible, then any suffering that person then endures is God's fault, for not having revealed himself as something better to that person.

See, this is the problem with all of your quasi-philosophical equivocating: it's not very well thought out. You make these arbitrary rules which you "kinda, sorta feel" are true, but they all end up being problematic, in any rational analysis. and, humans are "blessed" with rational minds.

Ask: Is God truly evil, or am I misunderstanding the translations of ancient stories?

Ask: Is Bible God truly evil, and am I just interpreting the stories conveniently in order to clean up the morality?

And, to be clear, my declaration of an evil god is on par with declaring that Zeus was a real shit. Well, he was, right? It's whimsical. I think that the god described in the Bible is heinous. That's an easy point to argue. One can only quote the Bible to make this argument. It is you who will then be the one equivocating; assigning allegory and metaphor on your own authority; picking and choosing which words to take literally, based on a changing standard never fully revealed; etc., etc. Have you ever asked yourself why this is so? Why your position requires so much more effort... so much higher a degree of demand for suspension of incredulity... so many more "shell game" tactics, in waiting on the other person to speak to a verse or story, then revealing to them which words are literal and which aren't (as prescribed for whatever talking point was already on the table, every single time) .... why you must not only make the demand that you are right, but that so many billions of others are not only wrong, but cannot possibly be right?


That's quite the rational mountain you have to climb, not only to convince another, rational, adult human, but also to convince yourself. Thus, the required suspension of incredulity. And then follows faith. If it works for you, great. But you probably should not try to fool well-off adults with this stuff and, instead, should focus on children and desperate people (starvation and dehydration are gold mines for proselytizing, especially starving and dehydrated children).

 

[alang1216]

You suffer from a morbid compulsion to find fault with God..... instead of looking for your own fault and seeking a remedy for that.

I like to think it's a compulsion to understand God, man, the universe, and everything. I find most people tend to accept what they are taught without question. I've never been able to do that and have yet to find a remedy. No problem, I'll look elsewhere.

 

[Likkmee]

To study the word "faith" I challenge you to go find a decent ( not tis thy art thou thee) of the Exodus in it's entirety. it's a very interesting story of a simple guy with a speech impediment(Moses) and his brother up against a rich tyrant and his mafia (magicians).
It's a way cool story and will give you a perspective of so-called Blind Faith.

 

[Meriweather]

Ask: Is Bible God truly evil, and am I just interpreting the stories conveniently in order to clean up the morality?

And, to be clear, my declaration of an evil god is on par with declaring that Zeus was a real shit. Well, he was, right? It's whimsical. I think that the god described in the Bible is heinous. That's an easy point to argue. One can only quote the Bible to make this argument. It is you who will then be the one equivocating; assigning allegory and metaphor on your own authority; picking and choosing which words to take literally, based on a changing standard never fully revealed; etc., etc. Have you ever asked yourself why this is so? Why your position requires so much more effort... so much higher a degree of demand for suspension of incredulity... so many more "shell game" tactics, in waiting on the other person to speak to a verse or story, then revealing to them which words are literal and which aren't (as prescribed for whatever talking point was already on the table, every single time) .... why you must not only make the demand that you are right, but that so many billions of others are not only wrong, but cannot possibly be right?


That's quite the rational mountain you have to climb, not only to convince another, rational, adult human, but also to convince yourself. Thus, the required suspension of incredulity. And then follows faith. If it works for you, great. But you probably should not try to fool well-off adults with this stuff and, instead, should focus on children and desperate people (starvation and dehydration are gold mines for proselytizing, especially starving and dehydrated children).

Ask: Since I am a non-believer, is the Bible any of my business?

It is definitely mine, because after an experience of God's love for all of us, I wondered how ancient Jews could have missed this. Thus began a study of the Hebrew language, culture, Judaism--and a skimming over of other religions. I was already quite familiar with Greek and Roman mythology.

Here is part of what I discovered. The culture of the time, and both well-known flood stories, had the same perspective. The perspective they had was in terms of tribe. The authors of both Gilgamesh and Noah began with the tribe not only acting badly, but acting so badly it dismayed and annoyed the supernatural. They were in agreement that the tribe of mankind deserved to be wiped out. But God did not do this. In both stories, God preserved mankind--and chose a man known for righteousness for this.

In story after Bible story I took on, this perspective of tribe prevailed. Think back to classroom days to get a sense of this perspective. Teachers can do it more easily, thinking of times a class was good--or a
class was completely horrible. Do you remember a time when the entire class was punished--or rewarded--although not every single person was horrible or although there was a classmate or two who could have done better? And, if at recess (or the locker room), an entire class began tormenting another class (usually a younger, newer class), did not justice descend swiftly on the offending class?

Looking through the eyes of Jews, looking through the eyes of tribe, very different stories emerges than the one some outsiders today insist on retelling today from the perspective of an individual who does not know the history, the culture, or the original language. Kindergartners have a very different perspective of school than the principal. In respect to the Bible, non-believers are like Kindergartners who do not see the school from the same perspective as the principals and teachers.

Instead of coming across as a children who have no learning, non-believers (in my opinion) would do better to stick with what they know. Tell of how beneficial it is not to have to worry about the Bible and interpreting the passages properly; no church to fit into one's personal schedule, the fun holidays can be without religious traditions encroaching, that good people, if left alone, can be a better version of themselves without religion muddying the waters. Don't tell us what is wrong with us/religion/Bible/Quran--tell us what is right about your philosophy.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Ask: Is Bible God truly evil, and am I just interpreting the stories conveniently in order to clean up the morality?

And, to be clear, my declaration of an evil god is on par with declaring that Zeus was a real shit. Well, he was, right? It's whimsical. I think that the god described in the Bible is heinous. That's an easy point to argue. One can only quote the Bible to make this argument. It is you who will then be the one equivocating; assigning allegory and metaphor on your own authority; picking and choosing which words to take literally, based on a changing standard never fully revealed; etc., etc. Have you ever asked yourself why this is so? Why your position requires so much more effort... so much higher a degree of demand for suspension of incredulity... so many more "shell game" tactics, in waiting on the other person to speak to a verse or story, then revealing to them which words are literal and which aren't (as prescribed for whatever talking point was already on the table, every single time) .... why you must not only make the demand that you are right, but that so many billions of others are not only wrong, but cannot possibly be right?


That's quite the rational mountain you have to climb, not only to convince another, rational, adult human, but also to convince yourself. Thus, the required suspension of incredulity. And then follows faith. If it works for you, great. But you probably should not try to fool well-off adults with this stuff and, instead, should focus on children and desperate people (starvation and dehydration are gold mines for proselytizing, especially starving and dehydrated children).

Ask: Since I am a non-believer, is the Bible any of my business?

It is definitely mine, because after an experience of God's love for all of us, I wondered how ancient Jews could have missed this. Thus began a study of the Hebrew language, culture, Judaism--and a skimming over of other religions. I was already quite familiar with Greek and Roman mythology.

Here is part of what I discovered. The culture of the time, and both well-known flood stories, had the same perspective. The perspective they had was in terms of tribe. The authors of both Gilgamesh and Noah began with the tribe not only acting badly, but acting so badly it dismayed and annoyed the supernatural. They were in agreement that the tribe of mankind deserved to be wiped out. But God did not do this. In both stories, God preserved mankind--and chose a man known for righteousness for this.

In story after Bible story I took on, this perspective of tribe prevailed. Think back to classroom days to get a sense of this perspective. Teachers can do it more easily, thinking of times a class was good--or a
class was completely horrible. Do you remember a time when the entire class was punished--or rewarded--although not every single person was horrible or although there was a classmate or two who could have done better? And, if at recess (or the locker room), an entire class began tormenting another class (usually a younger, newer class), did not justice descend swiftly on the offending class?

Looking through the eyes of Jews, looking through the eyes of tribe, very different stories emerges than the one some outsiders today insist on retelling today from the perspective of an individual who does not know the history, the culture, or the original language. Kindergartners have a very different perspective of school than the principal. In respect to the Bible, non-believers are like Kindergartners who do not see the school from the same perspective as the principals and teachers.

Instead of coming across as a children who have no learning, non-believers (in my opinion) would do better to stick with what they know. Tell of how beneficial it is not to have to worry about the Bible and interpreting the passages properly; no church to fit into one's personal schedule, the fun holidays can be without religious traditions encroaching, that good people, if left alone, can be a better version of themselves without religion muddying the waters. Don't tell us what is wrong with us/religion/Bible/Quran--tell us what is right about your philosophy.

Being told what is wrong with those texts and their religions is precisely how we reformed these constructs from immoral, oppressive systems to what we have today. To varying degrees, of course. We cant ever stop doing that

 

[Lysistrata]

People have lived for thousands of years on the Indian subcontinent, in China, Japan, North and South America, on the Pacific Islands, in the British Isles, and really, the Roman Empire, and elsewhere, The Abrahamic faiths were concentrated in the Middle East. Nobody did much intercontinental traveling in those days. I seriously doubt that any Supreme Being, supposedly responsible for all of creation, would actually condemn anyone who did not know of certain religious heroes from the Middle East. This simply would not make any sense.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

People have lived for thousands of years on the Indian subcontinent, in China, Japan, North and South America, on the Pacific Islands, in the British Isles, and really, the Roman Empire, and elsewhere, The Abrahamic faiths were concentrated in the Middle East. Nobody did much intercontinental traveling in those days. I seriously doubt that any Supreme Being, supposedly responsible for all of creation, would actually condemn anyone who did not know of certain religious heroes from the Middle East. This simply would not make any sense.

No kidding. What kind of idiot would tell his story to a small handful of people in the bronze age, then expect everyone else to know about it? Did I mention the Bible God is evil? Apparently, he's also a moron.