John Boehner is dead wrong.

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Did Boner win the election or did Romney lose? We want these tax shelters for the rich closed and that's what the majority of Americans voted for. What is this shit about a hedge fund using someone else's money to invest and only paying 15% for taxes on the profits they make? What about the tax loopholes that encourage American corporations to outsource jobs? Can't you figure out your corporatism and elitism has went too far? You took a functioning economy that was making surpluses and destroyed it so mindlessly, it looks intentionally done for the Republican "Starve the Beast" agenda. Doing that during wartime is an act of treason.

We've had enough of your Republican nonsense calling for reductions in government spending during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression that you also caused. You've been a plague on the American economy since your party was founded and you've been working since day one to cause another recession and blame it on Obama. Whatever is good is bad and what is bad is good to the Republicans. They have to know what works in the economy to oppose it continuously. You fucked it up, so fix it! You aren't going to play the American people like fools and if you cause another recession, they may just come after your asses.

When you raise taxes on business owners, throw in the cost of Obamacare, where are companies going to come up with the equity to hire more employees? In case you haven't noticed, dispite all of Obama's efforts to fix his economy his way, it has only resulted in the current shrinking of the economy (as last reported in the fourth quarter of 2012). The Federal Government can't spend it's way to prosperity because its the PRIVATE SECTOR BUSINESSES that make the decisions to invest, hire, and expand to create more opportunity for jobs ...... not government. Obama is spending more and more ... and all he is doing is raising our national debt, while showing very little to show for it FOUR years later. Now to tackle the growing debt problem, with his desire to keep interest rates low, he has chosen to have the treasury print up more money. What exactly do you think that does to the overall "value" of the American dollar? What toll will that have on middle class families, looking to take what little they have left (if both parents are lucky enough to even HAVE full time employment) to buy basic necessities such as groceries and clothes?

Household income is down sharply since the recession ended three years ago, according to a report released Thursday, providing another sign of the stubborn weakness of the economic recovery.
From June 2009 to June 2012, inflation-adjusted median household income fell 4.8 percent, to $50,964, according to a report by Sentier Research, a firm headed by two former Census Bureau officials.

Incomes have dropped more since the beginning of the recovery than they did during the recession itself, when they declined 2.6 percent, according to the report, which analyzed data from the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey. The recession, the most severe since the Great Depression, lasted from December 2007 to June 2009.

Household income is below recession levels, report says - Washington Post

According to the Census ACS survey, the median household income for the United States was $50,502 in 2011, the latest data available. 2012 Census ACS data (including 2012 national household income numbers) will be released in September of 2013.


US Real Median Family Income Trends since 2007

The real median family income for the US peaked in 2007 at $66,356 and is now $4,901 (7.39%) lower.

US Household Income | Department of Numbers

... yesterday, the BLS' latest jobs report confirmed that our concerns have been valid all along: as of May, part-time jobs just as disclosed by the Bureau of Labor Statistics hit an all time high, over 28 million! These are people who traditionally have zero job benefits, including healthcare and retirement, and which according to the BLS "work less than 35 hours per week." In other words, as little as one hour per week of "work" is enough to classify one a part-time worker. More disturbing: the increase in part-time jobs in May compared to April: 618,000, or the fifth highest on record. It gets better: when added with the 508,000 increase in part-time jobs in April, this is the largest two month increase in part time-jobs in history. Which means of course that full time jobs in May must have declined: sure enough, at a -266,000 drop in full time jobs, the quality composition of the NFP report was just abysmal and makes any reported "increase" in those employed into a sad farce.

America's Transition To A Part-Time Worker Society Accelerates As Part-Time Jobs Hit Record | Zero Hedge

That above is the result of Obama's policies, in having "government" spend its way towards a stronger economy. It's just not working.

 

[Dubya]

Did Boner win the election or did Romney lose? We want these tax shelters for the rich closed and that's what the majority of Americans voted for. What is this shit about a hedge fund using someone else's money to invest and only paying 15% for taxes on the profits they make? What about the tax loopholes that encourage American corporations to outsource jobs? Can't you figure out your corporatism and elitism has went too far? You took a functioning economy that was making surpluses and destroyed it so mindlessly, it looks intentionally done for the Republican "Starve the Beast" agenda. Doing that during wartime is an act of treason.

We've had enough of your Republican nonsense calling for reductions in government spending during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression that you also caused. You've been a plague on the American economy since your party was founded and you've been working since day one to cause another recession and blame it on Obama. Whatever is good is bad and what is bad is good to the Republicans. They have to know what works in the economy to oppose it continuously. You fucked it up, so fix it! You aren't going to play the American people like fools and if you cause another recession, they may just come after your asses.

When you raise taxes on business owners, throw in the cost of Obamacare, where are companies going to come up with the equity to hire more employees? In case you haven't noticed, dispite all of Obama's efforts to fix his economy his way, it has only resulted in the current shrinking of the economy (as last reported in the fourth quarter of 2012). The Federal Government can't spend it's way to prosperity because its the PRIVATE SECTOR BUSINESSES that make the decisions to invest, hire, and expand to create more opportunity for jobs ...... not government. Obama is spending more and more ... and all he is doing is raising our national debt, while showing very little to show for it FOUR years later. Now to tackle the growing debt problem, with his desire to keep interest rates low, he has chosen to have the treasury print up more money. What exactly do you think that does to the overall "value" of the American dollar? What toll will that have on middle class families, looking to take what little they have left (if both parents are lucky enough to even HAVE full time employment) to buy basic necessities such as groceries and clothes?

Household income is down sharply since the recession ended three years ago, according to a report released Thursday, providing another sign of the stubborn weakness of the economic recovery.
From June 2009 to June 2012, inflation-adjusted median household income fell 4.8 percent, to $50,964, according to a report by Sentier Research, a firm headed by two former Census Bureau officials.

Incomes have dropped more since the beginning of the recovery than they did during the recession itself, when they declined 2.6 percent, according to the report, which analyzed data from the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey. The recession, the most severe since the Great Depression, lasted from December 2007 to June 2009.

Household income is below recession levels, report says - Washington Post

According to the Census ACS survey, the median household income for the United States was $50,502 in 2011, the latest data available. 2012 Census ACS data (including 2012 national household income numbers) will be released in September of 2013.


US Real Median Family Income Trends since 2007

The real median family income for the US peaked in 2007 at $66,356 and is now $4,901 (7.39%) lower.

US Household Income | Department of Numbers

... yesterday, the BLS' latest jobs report confirmed that our concerns have been valid all along: as of May, part-time jobs just as disclosed by the Bureau of Labor Statistics hit an all time high, over 28 million! These are people who traditionally have zero job benefits, including healthcare and retirement, and which according to the BLS "work less than 35 hours per week." In other words, as little as one hour per week of "work" is enough to classify one a part-time worker. More disturbing: the increase in part-time jobs in May compared to April: 618,000, or the fifth highest on record. It gets better: when added with the 508,000 increase in part-time jobs in April, this is the largest two month increase in part time-jobs in history. Which means of course that full time jobs in May must have declined: sure enough, at a -266,000 drop in full time jobs, the quality composition of the NFP report was just abysmal and makes any reported "increase" in those employed into a sad farce.

America's Transition To A Part-Time Worker Society Accelerates As Part-Time Jobs Hit Record | Zero Hedge

That above is the result of Obama's policies, in having "government" spend its way towards a stronger economy. It's just not working.

Companies hire employees because the employees make them money. Start from there and figure business out!

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Did Boner win the election or did Romney lose? We want these tax shelters for the rich closed and that's what the majority of Americans voted for. What is this shit about a hedge fund using someone else's money to invest and only paying 15% for taxes on the profits they make? What about the tax loopholes that encourage American corporations to outsource jobs? Can't you figure out your corporatism and elitism has went too far? You took a functioning economy that was making surpluses and destroyed it so mindlessly, it looks intentionally done for the Republican "Starve the Beast" agenda. Doing that during wartime is an act of treason.

We've had enough of your Republican nonsense calling for reductions in government spending during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression that you also caused. You've been a plague on the American economy since your party was founded and you've been working since day one to cause another recession and blame it on Obama. Whatever is good is bad and what is bad is good to the Republicans. They have to know what works in the economy to oppose it continuously. You fucked it up, so fix it! You aren't going to play the American people like fools and if you cause another recession, they may just come after your asses.

When you raise taxes on business owners, throw in the cost of Obamacare, where are companies going to come up with the equity to hire more employees? In case you haven't noticed, dispite all of Obama's efforts to fix his economy his way, it has only resulted in the current shrinking of the economy (as last reported in the fourth quarter of 2012). The Federal Government can't spend it's way to prosperity because its the PRIVATE SECTOR BUSINESSES that make the decisions to invest, hire, and expand to create more opportunity for jobs ...... not government. Obama is spending more and more ... and all he is doing is raising our national debt, while showing very little to show for it FOUR years later. Now to tackle the growing debt problem, with his desire to keep interest rates low, he has chosen to have the treasury print up more money. What exactly do you think that does to the overall "value" of the American dollar? What toll will that have on middle class families, looking to take what little they have left (if both parents are lucky enough to even HAVE full time employment) to buy basic necessities such as groceries and clothes?

... yesterday, the BLS' latest jobs report confirmed that our concerns have been valid all along: as of May, part-time jobs just as disclosed by the Bureau of Labor Statistics hit an all time high, over 28 million! These are people who traditionally have zero job benefits, including healthcare and retirement, and which according to the BLS "work less than 35 hours per week." In other words, as little as one hour per week of "work" is enough to classify one a part-time worker. More disturbing: the increase in part-time jobs in May compared to April: 618,000, or the fifth highest on record. It gets better: when added with the 508,000 increase in part-time jobs in April, this is the largest two month increase in part time-jobs in history. Which means of course that full time jobs in May must have declined: sure enough, at a -266,000 drop in full time jobs, the quality composition of the NFP report was just abysmal and makes any reported "increase" in those employed into a sad farce.

America's Transition To A Part-Time Worker Society Accelerates As Part-Time Jobs Hit Record | Zero Hedge

That above is the result of Obama's policies, in having "government" spend its way towards a stronger economy. It's just not working.

Companies hire employees because the employees make them money. Start from there and figure business out!

Companies have to have the equity available to spend on expanding, it has to become profitable for them to invest and they have to want to do so. The business environment simply doesn't feel encouraged to risk further investment capital on their company, with the policies and rhetoric Obama has brought forth. The household numbers and part time employment numbers prove that. What encouragement is there for businesses to WANT to expand in this country.... under this President? Obama has set forth his policies and the direction HE wants to see for this country, and with every proposal that's talked about and passed, there has been an equil and opposite "reaction" by the private business sector in this country. The statistics above only goes on to prove that. Hate to burst your ideological bubble about "government and its need to spend its way towards a full recovery", but the numbers and the current state of our econony DO speak for themselves.

 

[Dubya]

When you raise taxes on business owners, throw in the cost of Obamacare, where are companies going to come up with the equity to hire more employees? In case you haven't noticed, dispite all of Obama's efforts to fix his economy his way, it has only resulted in the current shrinking of the economy (as last reported in the fourth quarter of 2012). The Federal Government can't spend it's way to prosperity because its the PRIVATE SECTOR BUSINESSES that make the decisions to invest, hire, and expand to create more opportunity for jobs ...... not government. Obama is spending more and more ... and all he is doing is raising our national debt, while showing very little to show for it FOUR years later. Now to tackle the growing debt problem, with his desire to keep interest rates low, he has chosen to have the treasury print up more money. What exactly do you think that does to the overall "value" of the American dollar? What toll will that have on middle class families, looking to take what little they have left (if both parents are lucky enough to even HAVE full time employment) to buy basic necessities such as groceries and clothes?










That above is the result of Obama's policies, in having "government" spend its way towards a stronger economy. It's just not working.

Companies hire employees because the employees make them money. Start from there and figure business out!

Companies have to have the equity available to spend on expanding, it has to become profitable for them to invest and they have to want to do so. The business environment simply doesn't feel encouraged to risk further investment capital on their company, with the policies and rhetoric Obama has brought forth. The household numbers and part time employment numbers prove that. What encouragement is there for businesses to WANT to expand in this country.... under this President? Obama has set forth his policies and the direction HE wants to see for this country, and with every proposal that's talked about and passed, there has been an equil and opposite "reaction" by the private business sector in this country. The statistics above only goes on to prove that. Hate to burst your ideological bubble about "government and its need to spend its way towards a full recovery", but the numbers and the current state of our econony DO speak for themselves.

First off, a company has to have an business opportunity created by demand. Since most businesses that meet that demand require an effort by many people, the demand creates the jobs. Someone or a group owns a company, but owning it didn't start the business. The recognition of a business opportunity started the business. The demand determines if it's profitable to have more people working and not the amount of capital the company has. The fact is nearly all businesses are running below capacity and no capital investment is needed to expand, so what you claim is bullshit. In the rare cases where a business would be considering the future, any business that requires a good economy wouldn't look at ours and think the future is going to be rosy. They would notice a Republican party that works 24/7 to trash this economy again. It's the Republicans who make the future outlook gloomy, because they won't cooperate on anything of an economic nature to let's a business know what the future deal is going to be. Since most companies and individuals who start a company borrow to create a business or expansion, why risk your capital with an uncertain future?

Try this bubble, fool! Businesses look to the future whether they want to expand or not and anyone in business should know if the Republicans get their way with an austerity program, it's recession time again. If you don't know that much about economics, you shouldn't be in business. Just the uncertainty that the Republicans could get their way is keeping a good recovery from happening. Only the people who can profit during bad economic times want a Republican victory.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Obama is a President and even Presidential vetos have been overruled, so to start off with you should start acting like an adult, instead of an Obamaholic.

I should act like an adult? If this is supposed to be an adult conversation why the fuck are you talking about vetoes?

How many of Obama's vetoes have been overruled? The pathetic whiner threatens to veto everything unless he gets what he wants, and has only managed to actually veto two or three bills so far. Talking about overriding an Obama veto would require the Senate, which is controlled by Democrats despite your delusional beliefs otherwise, to vote against him en masse.

The Democrats wanted to keep the tax cuts for people making under $250,000 and other things which were reasonable.

The Democrats? Which Democrats? I recall a lot of posturing from different people on both sides, and there was even an agreement reached with some Republicans on a tax hike.

As I pointed out in another thread, anyone that has to argue that their position is reasonable is making an unreasonable argument. The proof of that is Obama continued to insist the Republicans were being unreasonable even after he got an agreement from them to raise taxes.

Now, you idiots like to claim how that hurts small business, but the fact is someone can give themselves a salary of $250,000, deduct it as a business expense, incorporate the business and only pay corporate tax rates as the business grows. Even a rich person can live off of $250,000 minus taxes per year, but let's say I wanted to build the business. I could pay myself $171,850 per year at the marginal tax rate of 28% and reinvest in the business to shelter the business profits. I could set up the business to issue stock, own it all and when I eventually sold the business claim it as capital gains paying 28%. If they are too dumb to do that, they don't deserve to have money.

Care to point out how fucking often that happens, or are you just making up numbers in a vain attempt to convince yourself that you are smart?

When you get back to the subject, the issue is the deficit. That means either revenue has to be increased or spending has to be reduced. The deficit is a product of trashing the economy and losing revenue by doing it. What is called government spending is either true government spending or a transfer of funds. Reducing either reduces GDP. Revenue can be increased by increasing taxes or growing the economy. The smart way to do it is to grow the economy and close some loopholes allowing the rich to pay less taxes than working people. Growing the economy is easy. Just ask a Republican what to do and do the opposite. You'll be right a 100% of the time.

Correction, I gave you the marginal rate for 2010. It's $183,250 for a single person in 2013.

No, the deficit is the product of the government spending more money than it earns. Nothing else can cause a deficit. Nothing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Are you serious? Or just seriously fucking stupid. Maybe it's a sarcastic jab. Either way it's a sick attempt and a big phat fail.

Government bonds... returning what - 30 years at 3%? So you put $10k in this sorry shit and tie up your capital for the next 3 decades. $100k? $1 million? No difference.

And to what end? Loan the government your money?

And what does that money do? Languish in bureaucritic morass?

Or you could take that money of yours and invest it in something that does something. Now. Think quick, fucker. Buy a rental property, open a pizza parlor, invest in a mutual fund and realizes *gasp* capital gains and/or dividends that are taxed at the magical "Romney" 15%.

You sick pimp, putting faith in such a usless nonproductive instrument as a government bond. Go buy something with your money. Buy something and use it to produce something of more worth. Christ you're a sorry ass.

You really are brain dead, aren't you? Of course putting money in government bonds is pointless if you have lots of money to invest. You missed my point you stupid fuck. The point is that if you have that much money, you're going to invest it anyway. You don't need a million fucking tax breaks. What ends up happening is that the tax breaks become the real incentive rather than the return on investment being the incentive. Investors don't invest so much to make more money as they do trying to make money off of tax incentives. Why do you think we have American businesses sitting on close to $3 trillion dollars right now?

I tell you, for someone who is supposed to be halfway intelligent, you showed an extreme lack of thought in your response.

Actually, you are both wrong. Many of those people and entities who invest in US government bonds have hugh sums of money and want a secure investment for some of it, so it does make sense to even buy hundreds of millions to billions of dollar in government bonds. Another thing is the ease of investment. Bonds have a daily value so they are worth some price from the day they are acquired. Money can be made trading bonds, just like in trading stock.

For normal people, the bond/stock ration for an investment portfolio is to buy stock at 100% minus your age, so at 40 years old the person should have investments representing 60% stock and 40% bonds.

You don't know much about the economy, do you?

Can you explain why commodities are outperforming stocks yet bonds are still under performing? Does this signal a shift away from the dollar as an investment? Is this a good sign?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Spending is not the issue here. That said, prove that the cash for clunkers program wasn't the difference between the auto industry repaying it's loans ahead of schedule and clunking itself.

Wrong, the only issue right now is spending.

That said, Cash for Clunkers had zero impact on the auto industry, something all the experts have repeatedly pointed out.

If 'all' the experts have panned it so vehemently, it shouldn't be too hard for you to come up with a link, eh?

I see you couldn't come up with a link to prove me wrong, why is that?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Did Boner win the election or did Romney lose? We want these tax shelters for the rich closed and that's what the majority of Americans voted for. What is this shit about a hedge fund using someone else's money to invest and only paying 15% for taxes on the profits they make? What about the tax loopholes that encourage American corporations to outsource jobs? Can't you figure out your corporatism and elitism has went too far? You took a functioning economy that was making surpluses and destroyed it so mindlessly, it looks intentionally done for the Republican "Starve the Beast" agenda. Doing that during wartime is an act of treason.

We've had enough of your Republican nonsense calling for reductions in government spending during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression that you also caused. You've been a plague on the American economy since your party was founded and you've been working since day one to cause another recession and blame it on Obama. Whatever is good is bad and what is bad is good to the Republicans. They have to know what works in the economy to oppose it continuously. You fucked it up, so fix it! You aren't going to play the American people like fools and if you cause another recession, they may just come after your asses.

When you raise taxes on business owners, throw in the cost of Obamacare, where are companies going to come up with the equity to hire more employees? In case you haven't noticed, dispite all of Obama's efforts to fix his economy his way, it has only resulted in the current shrinking of the economy (as last reported in the fourth quarter of 2012). The Federal Government can't spend it's way to prosperity because its the PRIVATE SECTOR BUSINESSES that make the decisions to invest, hire, and expand to create more opportunity for jobs ...... not government. Obama is spending more and more ... and all he is doing is raising our national debt, while showing very little to show for it FOUR years later. Now to tackle the growing debt problem, with his desire to keep interest rates low, he has chosen to have the treasury print up more money. What exactly do you think that does to the overall "value" of the American dollar? What toll will that have on middle class families, looking to take what little they have left (if both parents are lucky enough to even HAVE full time employment) to buy basic necessities such as groceries and clothes?

... yesterday, the BLS' latest jobs report confirmed that our concerns have been valid all along: as of May, part-time jobs just as disclosed by the Bureau of Labor Statistics hit an all time high, over 28 million! These are people who traditionally have zero job benefits, including healthcare and retirement, and which according to the BLS "work less than 35 hours per week." In other words, as little as one hour per week of "work" is enough to classify one a part-time worker. More disturbing: the increase in part-time jobs in May compared to April: 618,000, or the fifth highest on record. It gets better: when added with the 508,000 increase in part-time jobs in April, this is the largest two month increase in part time-jobs in history. Which means of course that full time jobs in May must have declined: sure enough, at a -266,000 drop in full time jobs, the quality composition of the NFP report was just abysmal and makes any reported "increase" in those employed into a sad farce.

America's Transition To A Part-Time Worker Society Accelerates As Part-Time Jobs Hit Record | Zero Hedge

That above is the result of Obama's policies, in having "government" spend its way towards a stronger economy. It's just not working.

Companies hire employees because the employees make them money. Start from there and figure business out!

That explains why all those hotels in LA hired new workers after the minimum wage went up.

 

[emptystep]

Wrong, the only issue right now is spending.

That said, Cash for Clunkers had zero impact on the auto industry, something all the experts have repeatedly pointed out.

If 'all' the experts have panned it so vehemently, it shouldn't be too hard for you to come up with a link, eh?

I see you couldn't come up with a link to prove me wrong, why is that?

Not the way the game is played.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If 'all' the experts have panned it so vehemently, it shouldn't be too hard for you to come up with a link, eh?

I see you couldn't come up with a link to prove me wrong, why is that?

Not the way the game is played.

He claimed that Cash for Clunkers was good for the auto industry, I scoffed. How does that give him the power to demand I provide a link instead of him defending his claim?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Wrong, the only issue right now is spending.

That said, Cash for Clunkers had zero impact on the auto industry, something all the experts have repeatedly pointed out.

If 'all' the experts have panned it so vehemently, it shouldn't be too hard for you to come up with a link, eh?

I see you couldn't come up with a link to prove me wrong, why is that?

'Cause between the two of us, you're the one who appears to give a flying fuck?

 

[AVG-JOE]

I see you couldn't come up with a link to prove me wrong, why is that?

Not the way the game is played.

He claimed that Cash for Clunkers was good for the auto industry, I scoffed. How does that give him the power to demand I provide a link instead of him defending his claim?

Nope. I gave you my opinion, nothing more. You came back with "all the experts have repeatedly said otherwise", and I asked you for a link. Just one expert out of 'all' will do nicely.

Thanks!

 

[FA_Q2]

More worthless rhetoric....

Well see if you can actually address anything or make a point.

Did Boner win the election or did Romney lose?

Actually, Boehner did win the election. A few times. Romney also lost. What in the hell does this have to do with anything. that's right, nothing at all.

We want these tax shelters for the rich closed and that's what the majority of Americans voted for. What is this shit about a hedge fund using someone else's money to invest and only paying 15% for taxes on the profits they make? What about the tax loopholes that encourage American corporations to outsource jobs? Can't you figure out your corporatism and elitism has went too far? You took a functioning economy that was making surpluses and destroyed it so mindlessly, it looks intentionally done for the Republican "Starve the Beast" agenda. Doing that during wartime is an act of treason.

Did you read what I wrote? I want that too but you were to much on the anti-republican bullshit train to even be troubled with reading the comment that you were respoonding too.

To add, Boehner has 'claimed' to want that too. He just wants it done in a revenue netral way. Something that you seem to not understand. In reality, none of them really want to fix the tax code but that is on Obama also. He really does not want to close the loopholes either. he just wants to straight out raise the taxes.

We've had enough of your Republican nonsense calling for reductions in government spending during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression that you also caused. You've been a plague on the American economy since your party was founded and you've been working since day one to cause another recession and blame it on Obama. Whatever is good is bad and what is bad is good to the Republicans. They have to know what works in the economy to oppose it continuously. You fucked it up, so fix it! You aren't going to play the American people like fools and if you cause another recession, they may just come after your asses.

Yup, ad homonym because you didn't even bother to read my post. Go back and read it so you stop looking like your avatar...

 

[FA_Q2]

Not the way the game is played.

He claimed that Cash for Clunkers was good for the auto industry, I scoffed. How does that give him the power to demand I provide a link instead of him defending his claim?

Nope. I gave you my opinion, nothing more. You came back with "all the experts have repeatedly said otherwise", and I asked you for a link. Just one expert out of 'all' will do nicely.

Thanks!

Here is a leftee that claims failure.
Austan Goolsbee flunks 'cash for clunkers' - Tim Mak - POLITICO.com

Here is the problem, the idea was simply to get people to purchase new cars before they would normally purchase them. In that regard, it was a success but the problem is that is not how it was sold to the public or what people seem to think it was supposed to do. Extremely few people went out and upgraded a car that they were not planning on doing so later. All those sales were not 'extra' sales that helped the car industry. They were next years sales. It is why, if you look at the actual sales data, they skyrocked during the event (and everyone claimed success) and then tanked terribly after the event (and the administration went quiet). All cash for clunkers did was move sales from one year to another.

Now, we all know how this works. Claiming that you gave on 'opinion' does not shift the burden of proof. It is a childish maneuver to make an assertion and then demand that other prove that assertion false. Please don't degrade to that level.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not the way the game is played.

He claimed that Cash for Clunkers was good for the auto industry, I scoffed. How does that give him the power to demand I provide a link instead of him defending his claim?

Nope. I gave you my opinion, nothing more. You came back with "all the experts have repeatedly said otherwise", and I asked you for a link. Just one expert out of 'all' will do nicely.

Thanks!

What was your opinion based on, hot air?

 

[Dubya]

When you raise taxes on business owners, throw in the cost of Obamacare, where are companies going to come up with the equity to hire more employees? In case you haven't noticed, dispite all of Obama's efforts to fix his economy his way, it has only resulted in the current shrinking of the economy (as last reported in the fourth quarter of 2012). The Federal Government can't spend it's way to prosperity because its the PRIVATE SECTOR BUSINESSES that make the decisions to invest, hire, and expand to create more opportunity for jobs ...... not government. Obama is spending more and more ... and all he is doing is raising our national debt, while showing very little to show for it FOUR years later. Now to tackle the growing debt problem, with his desire to keep interest rates low, he has chosen to have the treasury print up more money. What exactly do you think that does to the overall "value" of the American dollar? What toll will that have on middle class families, looking to take what little they have left (if both parents are lucky enough to even HAVE full time employment) to buy basic necessities such as groceries and clothes?








That above is the result of Obama's policies, in having "government" spend its way towards a stronger economy. It's just not working.

Companies hire employees because the employees make them money. Start from there and figure business out!

That explains why all those hotels in LA hired new workers after the minimum wage went up.

Why is business such a big mystery to conservatives? Consider this simple fact to start with! Capitalism has been around for a very long time and fortunes have been massed. Some people have so much money it's a full time job for many people trying to find good investments or business opportunities. People who have accumulated fortunes in wealth aren't living hand to mouth, so the income of a year isn't critical for their existence, but they are conscious that their goal is to accumulate more wealth and not have their wealth lose it's value. When demand creates a good business opportunity, it isn't a problem finding capital to invest in it, when the opportunity of gaining money in volume presents itself. Obviously these are human endeavors and one human being only has a certain capacity. The way to make large amounts of money is to have human beings working for you, so you can gain money off of their work. A person's or company's capital only qualifies them to take advantage of a presented business opportunity and it isn't their capital that is determining the success of a business. It's the hard work of the workers that determines it.

Let's say you have two companies competing for the same business opportunity and they both pay the same starting wages. Let's say Company A stresses values like a team effort and reminds their workers how appreciated they are, while Company B constantly reminds their workers how lucky they are to have the job they have created for them and treats their workers like shit. Let's say Company A allows advancement or pay increases to be fairly distributed, while Company B suppresses wages on the masses, while rewarding an elite few. In the long run, Company A is going to be successful and Company B is going to have a lot of problems. Employees in Company B who have mastered skills and who aren't properly rewarded are going to get tired of being treated like shit, working for a fucked up company and take those skills elsewhere at the first opportunity. A few may grind it out hoping someday to be rewarded and become an elite, but most are going to say fuck it and jump ship at the sight of the nearest port.

It isn't hard to figure out which company was a Democrat and which was a Republican. Both started with the same capital requirements to qualify for a business opportunity, but it wasn't necessary for Company B to remind the "have nots" every minute of their lives, that's what they are, just to make their lives miserable.

 

[Agit8r]

oh, wow. Obviously an equitable tax code must be progressive

 

[Dubya]

oh, wow. Obviously an equitable tax code must be progressive

Flat tax, flat Earth, what's the difference? I don't agree with regressive taxation of any kind.

 

[Trajan]

The revenue discussion can not be considered "closed" until the US Tax Code is considered fair and simple by a majority of taxpayers.

WASHINGTON (AP) — House Speaker John Boehner says the debate over increased revenue "is now closed."

Boehner: Revenue debate is 'closed' - Tallahassee News | ABC 27 WTXL: News: john boehner, president obama, revenue debate, fbi, taxes

Uh huh.


so, in other words we want to raise taxes, again, this time via closing loopholes and scrubbing deductions/tax reform etc.?

Ok, then why didn't Obama do that last time? he could have gotten more than just the rate increases via loopholes deduction tax reform last time, but he insisted on the rate change...........in other words NOW we need tax reform...........a month and half later

can you square that circle for me please?

 

[Trajan]

If 'all' the experts have panned it so vehemently, it shouldn't be too hard for you to come up with a link, eh?

I see you couldn't come up with a link to prove me wrong, why is that?

'Cause between the two of us, you're the one who appears to give a flying fuck?

After the Clunker Party, an Auto Sales Hangover - Businessweek

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2011/10/cash-for-clunkers-two-years-later.html