Jordan Peterson on Communism

[DustyInfinity]

I recently watched a Peterson video where I believe he asked a very good question. For all the people who support Communism and Socialism who say that it wasn't done properly in the past, how do they solve what went wrong in the past? You can't just say it won't happen this time. Is there an intelligent argument for how future attempts at collectivism won't lead right back down the road to totalitarianism? I think this is a reasonable question to ask now that Socialism is gaining popularity. I'm not going to get into the definitions of Socialism, because I think this question applies to all forms of collectivism, no matter what you call it. I don't want to play word games. It seems people on both the left and the right already feel that their representatives are not doing a good job representing them, and the government is more and more being shown to be corrupt on both sides of the aisle. It seems we are already sliding into authoritariansim, and people are saying giving the government more power is going to turn out differently this time? Why? It seems if you advocate government control and power, that there should be an answer to this question. I respect people who say they want the government to 'do good', but historically, it doesn't work out that way.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I recently watched a Peterson video where I believe he asked a very good question. For all the people who support Communism and Socialism who say that it wasn't done properly in the past, how do they solve what went wrong in the past? You can't just say it won't happen this time. Is there an intelligent argument for how future attempts at collectivism won't lead right back down the road to totalitarianism? I think this is a reasonable question to ask now that Socialism is gaining popularity. I'm not going to get into the definitions of Socialism, because I think this question applies to all forms of collectivism, no matter what you call it. I don't want to play word games. It seems people on both the left and the right already feel that their representatives are not doing a good job representing them, and the government is more and more being shown to be corrupt on both sides of the aisle. It seems we are already sliding into authoritariansim, and people are saying giving the government more power is going to turn out differently this time? Why? It seems if you advocate government control and power, that there should be an answer to this question. I respect people who say they want the government to 'do good', but historically, it doesn't work out that way.

You start off with a few fallacies. I dont know any serious people who advocate for communism. It only seems to be a thing in the US.
Secondly I can see the benefits of socialism from my front door. It hasnt "failed".
In the UK every step forward for the people has been brought in by liberal/socialist politicians in the face of conservatives who stated that it was not affordable.
Health,pensions,housing and education ,every aspect of our lives was transformed. Thats why we kicked Churchill out after the war. He represented the imperial past. The future was socialist.

This is the Stiwt in Rhos.It was built by weekly deductions from the pay of local miners. It has a 500 seat theatre as well as meeting rooms, bars and a billiard room. You can see the clock from anywhere in the village which is handy when you had to get her home for 10.

Those miners wanted somewhere they could be proud of. A glimpse of a better life, listen to opera and watch a movie. People can do so much more if they work together.

 

[occupied]

Authoritarianism is a thing more attached to fearfulness and nationalism than any "ism" you care to name. Just as soon as a governmental body successfully scares people into obedience with threats of enemies internal and external the transformation is complete. It's slippery thing to pin on right or left since any political dogma can be used to subvert freedoms. In the end the only sure thing about authoritarianism is that it sees personal courage as a subversive trait. Look at how the political belief system treats the agitators or the intellectual when judging the level of authoritarianism. Left or right makes little difference.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Authoritarianism is a thing more attached to fearfulness and nationalism than any "ism" you care to name. Just as soon as a governmental body successfully scares people into obedience with threats of enemies internal and external the transformation is complete. It's slippery thing to pin on right or left since any political dogma can be used to subvert freedoms. In the end the only sure thing about authoritarianism is that it sees personal courage as a subversive trait. Look at how the political belief system treats the agitators or the intellectual when judging the level of authoritarianism. Left or right makes little difference.

I agree completely about coercion, and that it is both sides, but I also think deception is in the equation. Keep people in the dark, and feed them shit. The mushroom treatment. An effective form of control to go with the fear. I still think advocates for large, providing governments should address how to keep the past from repeating itself. Especially with a track record as horrific as collectivism.

 

[occupied]

Authoritarianism is a thing more attached to fearfulness and nationalism than any "ism" you care to name. Just as soon as a governmental body successfully scares people into obedience with threats of enemies internal and external the transformation is complete. It's slippery thing to pin on right or left since any political dogma can be used to subvert freedoms. In the end the only sure thing about authoritarianism is that it sees personal courage as a subversive trait. Look at how the political belief system treats the agitators or the intellectual when judging the level of authoritarianism. Left or right makes little difference.

I agree completely about coercion, and that it is both sides, but I also think deception is in the equation. Keep people in the dark, and feed them shit. The mushroom treatment. An effective form of control to go with the fear. I still think advocates for large, providing governments should address how to keep the past from repeating itself. Especially with a track record as horrific as collectivism.

Collectivism is the very basis of human civilization. Where would the individual be without the society he lives in? Collectivism goes wrong when it is used as a political weapon to exclude rather than a utility to provide social stability to all who wish to participate.

 

[there4eyeM]

That fact that Marxism has led to horrible excesses cannot be ignored. We should certainly be very wary of going down any remotely similar path. Dr. Peterson makes very interesting, astute observations. They are essentially based upon his expertise and experiences in psychology. He has a powerful, eclectic intellect. The most important point he makes regarding politics in general and extreme left errors in particular is that social problems are psychological more than political. That I agree with wholeheartedly.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Below is the link to the video. He actually used to work for socialist groups, which I believe makes it even more remarkable that he is asking them this question.