Just Go Away Teacher Unions!...

[Samson]

Students are NOT widgets to be manufactured.....how do you measure merit in the classroom....I'm all ears.

I measure it by whether the students are being educated. I measure it by proficiency exams, SAT scores, meeting college admission standards, truancy, graduation rates, and employability. I measure it by whether kids are interested, involved, and excited with constructive activities, extra credit projects, and community. I measure it by whether kids aren't running with gangs, getting arrested or in other trouble. I measure it by whether kids are employable citizens by the time they graduae.

So, you hold teachers responsible if they have special ed students who do not do well...who will want to teach those classes?

So you hold teachers responsible for students ditching school.

So you hold teachers responsible for students getting accepted to colleges of their choice. What about those students who are not college material...who will want to teach them?

So you will hold teachers responsible as to whether kids get in gangs or arrested.


I don't think many will want to be teachers under your regime.

I believe you've purposefully misread Fyre's remarks: Typical HYSTERICAL TEACHER SYNDROME (HTS).

But if you believe there is another job out there where supervisors are not held accountable when their employees consistantly quit, are late for work, cannot be promoted, or are involved in illegal activity, then you are fantasizing (which, I cannot really blame you for: most teachers are quite secluded from reality, working in their figurative ivory towers).

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Scott Walker is behaving like an Adult while the Teacher Unions & Democrats are behaving like spoiled little Brats. I have to give much Kudos to Walker. The man is trying to tackle Wisconsin's terrible problems while the Unions & Democrats are trying to make it all about them. The same can be said of our Congress as well. The Republicans are trying to fix our nation's terrible problems while the Democrats just go on sniping at them and opposing them every step of the way. It is very clear the Democrats are not willing to address our Nation's very serious problems. It really is Party before Country for them. Hopefully the People see this though and hand them a crushing & humiliating defeat in 2012. They certainly deserve it. Lets hope this happens. Meanwhile,hang in there Mr. Walker.

 

[Foxfyre]

It is possible the unions will take down Walker who is trying real reform rather than just giving it lip service. The unions, aided and abetted by a leftwing press, took down Michelle Rhee when she was brave enough to try to reform the abysmal DC schools, but protecting tenure and obscenely great benefits seemed far more important than actually educating the kids. She even had the audacity to fire a couple of hundred teachers who didn't have proper certification. But they had union protection.

Tallahassee now has Michelle and is thrilled to get her.

Here is another example of what visionary education and attitude can do for 'hopeless' kids:

Well, they've done it again. Urban Prep Academy of Chicago, an all-male charter school with kids from the "worst" parts of Chicago, is sending 100% of its graduating seniors off to college. The school, founded in 2006, has stated that its continuous objective is to see to it that all of its students go to college. They are succeeding with flying colors.
The school started with kids whose futures had been left for dead by their public schools: Only four percent of the school's incoming freshmen were reading at grade level when they arrived on campus. But by sending all of their graduating seniors to college, they've not only gotten these kids up to speed, they've allowed them to zip past every other public school in the entire United States.
Urban Prep Academy Gets 100% Black Male College Attendance... Again - Black History Month

If the teachers' unions gave a tinkers dam about the kids, wouldn't you think they would be helping reformers emulate the success stories instead of doing their damndest to sink anybody who tries?

 

[Wicked Jester]

It is possible the unions will take down Walker who is trying real reform rather than just giving it lip service. The unions, aided and abetted by a leftwing press, took down Michelle Rhee when she was brave enough to try to reform the abysmal DC schools, but protecting tenure and obscenely great benefits seemed far more important than actually educating the kids. She even had the audacity to fire a couple of hundred teachers who didn't have proper certification. But they had union protection.

Tallahassee now has Michelle and is thrilled to get her.

Here is another example of what visionary education and attitude can do for 'hopeless' kids:

Well, they've done it again. Urban Prep Academy of Chicago, an all-male charter school with kids from the "worst" parts of Chicago, is sending 100% of its graduating seniors off to college. The school, founded in 2006, has stated that its continuous objective is to see to it that all of its students go to college. They are succeeding with flying colors.
The school started with kids whose futures had been left for dead by their public schools: Only four percent of the school's incoming freshmen were reading at grade level when they arrived on campus. But by sending all of their graduating seniors to college, they've not only gotten these kids up to speed, they've allowed them to zip past every other public Urban Prep Academy Gets 100% Black Male College Attendance... Again - Black History Month in the entire United States.

If the teachers' unions gave a tinkers dam about the kids, wouldn't you think they would be helping reformers emulate the success stories instead of doing their damndest to sink anybody who tries?

If the teachers unions gave a damn about the kids they wouldn't be encouraging the teachers to step on the RIGHTS of the kids to an education by encouraging the teachers to abandon the kids and their classrooms for days on end. They wouldn't be infringing on the kids parents to have to rearrange their entire lives, too include taking time off work at a loss of much needed pay so that the parents can ensure that their kids are being taken care of in a safe way when they should be in the damn CLASSROOMS being educated by said TEACHERS!

Those teachers in Wisconsin who abandonded their students and classrooms deserve no respect whatsoever. They deserve to be bashed and identified. The teachers who elected to stay and continue teaching their students are the ones to be praised.

This is left wing politics at it's core. This is Barack Obama politics at it's core. And, not surprisingly, it's the students and their parents who are left holding the bag........DISGRACEFUL!

 

[teachtoteachme]

They can't even get the Teachers to agree on standards testing & evaluations for Teacher job performance. This process would eliminate the under-performing Teachers who don't belong teaching our children. They viciously fight against these evaluations in every State. So the Unions just don't want to compromise and make any concessions. I really do have to applaud this Wisconsin Governor for standing up to them.

I don't pretend to know what line of work you are in, but in whatever job you do, if you were paid on your performance wouldn't you want to be evaluated on what you actually do? Most standardized tests encompass more material then a teacher can possibly cover in a school year, and unless they teach to the test, it is impossible to know what will be covered on the test. Do we want our children to be robots who just spew out information, or to be creative thinkers who can make good decisions? Teachers are not afraid of being evaluated, in fact, most want those evaluations to help them become even better teachers. The evaluations have to be fair, and not subjective to a test taken by kids with no consequences for doing poorly on the test. Why should a teacher get a poor evaluation because little Johnny just wants to color in bubbles and not actually try? Teachers aren't the ones having to agree on the standards that are taught, that comes from the state level, and decisions on what to teach are mandated by what the government deems important for that subject. If you can't see how this is a political move, then you are blinded by your ignornance. If it was all unions they wanted to dissolve, then all unions would be involved, not just ones backed more by one political party. The public education system is flawed, but should not be fixed on the backs of the people who are trying to make a difference. Everyone should make a sacrifice for the children and their future.

 

[California Girl]

They can't even get the Teachers to agree on standards testing & evaluations for Teacher job performance. This process would eliminate the under-performing Teachers who don't belong teaching our children. They viciously fight against these evaluations in every State. So the Unions just don't want to compromise and make any concessions. I really do have to applaud this Wisconsin Governor for standing up to them.

I don't pretend to know what line of work you are in, but in whatever job you do, if you were paid on your performance wouldn't you want to be evaluated on what you actually do? Most standardized tests encompass more material then a teacher can possibly cover in a school year, and unless they teach to the test, it is impossible to know what will be covered on the test. Do we want our children to be robots who just spew out information, or to be creative thinkers who can make good decisions? Teachers are not afraid of being evaluated, in fact, most want those evaluations to help them become even better teachers. The evaluations have to be fair, and not subjective to a test taken by kids with no consequences for doing poorly on the test. Why should a teacher get a poor evaluation because little Johnny just wants to color in bubbles and not actually try? Teachers aren't the ones having to agree on the standards that are taught, that comes from the state level, and decisions on what to teach are mandated by what the government deems important for that subject. If you can't see how this is a political move, then you are blinded by your ignornance. If it was all unions they wanted to dissolve, then all unions would be involved, not just ones backed more by one political party. The public education system is flawed, but should not be fixed on the backs of the people who are trying to make a difference. Everyone should make a sacrifice for the children and their future.

You used 'then' instead of 'than', and misspelled 'ignorance'. Some great teacher, you are. Not.

If you are a teacher, you make a sacrifice.... the rest of America already has. In the real world - the private sector, where most of those kids you teach will end up, we're losing jobs and benefits. Anti up, teacher. Show us how much you care about these kids and this country.... sacrifice with the rest.

And... for the record.... I have yet to meet a child from the public school system who could 'think creatively'. The skill of critical thinking is, from what I can see, not being taught in public schools... You're too busy teaching the kids to be liberals. You don't want individual thought - you want group think in the Obamanation.

 

[teachtoteachme]

They can't even get the Teachers to agree on standards testing & evaluations for Teacher job performance. This process would eliminate the under-performing Teachers who don't belong teaching our children. They viciously fight against these evaluations in every State. So the Unions just don't want to compromise and make any concessions. I really do have to applaud this Wisconsin Governor for standing up to them.

I don't pretend to know what line of work you are in, but in whatever job you do, if you were paid on your performance wouldn't you want to be evaluated on what you actually do? Most standardized tests encompass more material then a teacher can possibly cover in a school year, and unless they teach to the test, it is impossible to know what will be covered on the test. Do we want our children to be robots who just spew out information, or to be creative thinkers who can make good decisions? Teachers are not afraid of being evaluated, in fact, most want those evaluations to help them become even better teachers. The evaluations have to be fair, and not subjective to a test taken by kids with no consequences for doing poorly on the test. Why should a teacher get a poor evaluation because little Johnny just wants to color in bubbles and not actually try? Teachers aren't the ones having to agree on the standards that are taught, that comes from the state level, and decisions on what to teach are mandated by what the government deems important for that subject. If you can't see how this is a political move, then you are blinded by your ignornance. If it was all unions they wanted to dissolve, then all unions would be involved, not just ones backed more by one political party. The public education system is flawed, but should not be fixed on the backs of the people who are trying to make a difference. Everyone should make a sacrifice for the children and their future.

You used 'then' instead of 'than', and misspelled 'ignorance'. Some great teacher, you are. Not.

If you are a teacher, you make a sacrifice.... the rest of America already has. In the real world - the private sector, where most of those kids you teach will end up, we're losing jobs and benefits. Anti up, teacher. Show us how much you care about these kids and this country.... sacrifice with the rest.

And... for the record.... I have yet to meet a child from the public school system who could 'think creatively'. The skill of critical thinking is, from what I can see, not being taught in public schools... You're too busy teaching the kids to be liberals. You don't want individual thought - you want group think in the Obamanation.

When comparing one thing with another you may find that one is more appealing “than” another. “Than” is the word you want when doing comparisons. But if you are talking about time, choose “then“: “First you separate the eggs; then you beat the whites.” Alexis is smarter than I, not “then I.”

Which sentence were you referring to? I'm so glad you can point out my typo instead of my argument. I never said I was an English teacher. Just because you haven't met a child who is a creative thinker from the public school doesn't mean they don't exist. If you are not a product of a public school, thank your parents for raising such an open-minded person who insults strangers based on a stereotype.

As for the sacrifices I have made, your generalization that I have not made any prove your "ignorance". You know nothing about me, yet you feel it necessary to lump me into your cynical world. Easy to act the "bully" behind a computer screen isn't it? When you are ready to debate without throwing insults, then maybe you will have some credibility.

 

[Wicked Jester]

They can't even get the Teachers to agree on standards testing & evaluations for Teacher job performance. This process would eliminate the under-performing Teachers who don't belong teaching our children. They viciously fight against these evaluations in every State. So the Unions just don't want to compromise and make any concessions. I really do have to applaud this Wisconsin Governor for standing up to them.

I don't pretend to know what line of work you are in, but in whatever job you do, if you were paid on your performance wouldn't you want to be evaluated on what you actually do? Most standardized tests encompass more material then a teacher can possibly cover in a school year, and unless they teach to the test, it is impossible to know what will be covered on the test. Do we want our children to be robots who just spew out information, or to be creative thinkers who can make good decisions? Teachers are not afraid of being evaluated, in fact, most want those evaluations to help them become even better teachers. The evaluations have to be fair, and not subjective to a test taken by kids with no consequences for doing poorly on the test. Why should a teacher get a poor evaluation because little Johnny just wants to color in bubbles and not actually try? Teachers aren't the ones having to agree on the standards that are taught, that comes from the state level, and decisions on what to teach are mandated by what the government deems important for that subject. If you can't see how this is a political move, then you are blinded by your ignornance. If it was all unions they wanted to dissolve, then all unions would be involved, not just ones backed more by one political party. The public education system is flawed, but should not be fixed on the backs of the people who are trying to make a difference. Everyone should make a sacrifice for the children and their future.

So, tell us how infringing on the students RIGHTS to an education by abandoning the students and the classrooms to got to a protest and act like a bunch of self serving morons is helping those students and their futures. Tell us how infringing on the parents of those students who are now forced to rearrange their entire lives, too include taking time off work at a loss of pay to ensure that their kids are safe and being taken care of BECAUSE THOSE KIDS ARE NOT IN THE CLASSROOMS WHERE THEY BELONG, is helping those students and their futures.

And yes, you're right, the public education system is flawed due to many factors. Too include, lousy teachers, parents, unions, ETC.......Face it, teachers such as yourself need to stop putting yourselves on pedestals. You are no more special then ANYBODY working in the private sector at any capacity. Stop this bullshit of claiming that what's happening in Wisconsin and soon to be elsewhere is an attack on ALL teachers. States are broke. In part due to unsustainable gotten gains by unions and their members. It's time to suck it up, quit friggin' whining, and dig deeper into your pockets just like all other americans are having to do......Like I said, you're not special. You chose the profession. Do your damn jobs effectively, or get the hell out!

 

[Jroc]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg4t7V-e9dA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg4t7V-e9dA[/ame]

 

[teachtoteachme]

They can't even get the Teachers to agree on standards testing & evaluations for Teacher job performance. This process would eliminate the under-performing Teachers who don't belong teaching our children. They viciously fight against these evaluations in every State. So the Unions just don't want to compromise and make any concessions. I really do have to applaud this Wisconsin Governor for standing up to them.

I don't pretend to know what line of work you are in, but in whatever job you do, if you were paid on your performance wouldn't you want to be evaluated on what you actually do? Most standardized tests encompass more material then a teacher can possibly cover in a school year, and unless they teach to the test, it is impossible to know what will be covered on the test. Do we want our children to be robots who just spew out information, or to be creative thinkers who can make good decisions? Teachers are not afraid of being evaluated, in fact, most want those evaluations to help them become even better teachers. The evaluations have to be fair, and not subjective to a test taken by kids with no consequences for doing poorly on the test. Why should a teacher get a poor evaluation because little Johnny just wants to color in bubbles and not actually try? Teachers aren't the ones having to agree on the standards that are taught, that comes from the state level, and decisions on what to teach are mandated by what the government deems important for that subject. If you can't see how this is a political move, then you are blinded by your ignornance. If it was all unions they wanted to dissolve, then all unions would be involved, not just ones backed more by one political party. The public education system is flawed, but should not be fixed on the backs of the people who are trying to make a difference. Everyone should make a sacrifice for the children and their future.

So, tell us how infringing on the students RIGHTS to an education by abandoning the students and the classrooms to got to a protest and act like a bunch of self serving morons is helping those students and their futures. Tell us how infringing on the parents of those students who are now forced to rearrange their entire lives, too include taking time off work at a loss of pay to ensure that their kids are safe and being taken care of BECAUSE THOSE KIDS ARE NOT IN THE CLASSROOMS WHERE THEY BELONG, is helping those students and their futures.

And yes, you're right, the public education system is flawed due to many factors. Too include, lousy teachers, parents, unions, ETC.......Face it, teachers such as yourself need to stop putting yourselves on pedestals. You are no more special then ANYBODY working in the private sector at any capacity. Stop this bullshit of claiming that what's happening in Wisconsin and soon to be elsewhere is an attack on ALL teachers. States are broke. In part due to unsustainable gotten gains by unions and their members. It's time to suck it up, quit friggin' whining, and dig deeper into your pockets just like all other americans are having to do......Like I said, you're not special. You chose the profession. Do your damn jobs effectively, or get the hell out!

Bitter much? It's Sunday, I have the day off. How come we don't see anyone complaining about the cab drivers who were blocking the street? What about the police officers protesting as well? As an american are you saying that the teacher's right to protest is wrong? Ever stop to think that the students protesting with those teachers may be learning about how a democracy actually works? I don't recall putting myself on any pedestal or calling myself special. What's happening in Wisconsin is an attack on a union that represents teachers, it is not an attack on all unions. States are broke, but it's not because of teachers. I do my "damn" job and haven't complained to anybody. What have you given up for the children? How often do you volunteer your time for an interest that isn't yours? Don't lump me into your stereotype. As for having to re-arrange your schedule to take care of your kids..it's called parenting. Keep complaining about teachers, and soon you'll be wondering where they all went.

 

[Annie]

They can't even get the Teachers to agree on standards testing & evaluations for Teacher job performance. This process would eliminate the under-performing Teachers who don't belong teaching our children. They viciously fight against these evaluations in every State. So the Unions just don't want to compromise and make any concessions. I really do have to applaud this Wisconsin Governor for standing up to them.

I don't pretend to know what line of work you are in, but in whatever job you do, if you were paid on your performance wouldn't you want to be evaluated on what you actually do? Most standardized tests encompass more material then a teacher can possibly cover in a school year, and unless they teach to the test, it is impossible to know what will be covered on the test. Do we want our children to be robots who just spew out information, or to be creative thinkers who can make good decisions? Teachers are not afraid of being evaluated, in fact, most want those evaluations to help them become even better teachers. The evaluations have to be fair, and not subjective to a test taken by kids with no consequences for doing poorly on the test. Why should a teacher get a poor evaluation because little Johnny just wants to color in bubbles and not actually try? Teachers aren't the ones having to agree on the standards that are taught, that comes from the state level, and decisions on what to teach are mandated by what the government deems important for that subject. If you can't see how this is a political move, then you are blinded by your ignornance. If it was all unions they wanted to dissolve, then all unions would be involved, not just ones backed more by one political party. The public education system is flawed, but should not be fixed on the backs of the people who are trying to make a difference. Everyone should make a sacrifice for the children and their future.

I teach. I've been very open with the criticism of NCLB for evaluating schools on aspects over which they have no control. However, teachers are not evaluated on one standardized test, nor is the expectation that the students will score perfectly one of the parameters used.

In fact, most students in average schools take standardized tests seriously and do their best. If teachers make their lesson plans in line with the state standards and objectives and use realistic assessments along the way and their students are hitting the benchmarks, the class will come out 'average' give or take the skewing of classes being high or low, on any given standardized tests. Odds are some students will make pictures on the scantron form, others will score in the 99%, while most will come within the limits of the districts norms.

'Creative thinkers' like 'lifelong learners' are education department sound bites that can be used to cover bad teaching in the guise of respecting individuality at the price of not teaching what students need to learn. On the other hand, it's impossible to teach all information to one person, much less the myriad of students teachers face in a given day or year. Lesson plans that are rich in direct teaching of core subject standards and objectives, while requiring students to research further for information are the basis of both creating thinking and learning how to learn. The emphasis should be on the process, not the product appearance. Yet, that is what many teachers are teaching to, turning out products that appear to showcase the learning, while the kids are basically following directions, not learning to evaluate or synthesize material they find.

It used to be in IL, I don't know about the rest of the country, that standardized tests were given at the end of March, now many are given at the beginning of October or even earlier. If such types of tests are going to be used for evaluating a teacher each year, seems that one should be given as early as mid-September and again in late March or early-mid April.

Now evaluations by a principal or administrators are as good as the people evaluating and a clear understanding by all involved of what is being evaluated. Some have solid teaching backgrounds themselves and stay current with best teaching methods. Some haven't been in a classroom in 20+ years or ever and can be impressed or intimidated by new technologies or methodologies.

A combination of teacher observations and fair standardized testing methods might actually be a fair evaluation method.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I don't pretend to know what line of work you are in, but in whatever job you do, if you were paid on your performance wouldn't you want to be evaluated on what you actually do? Most standardized tests encompass more material then a teacher can possibly cover in a school year, and unless they teach to the test, it is impossible to know what will be covered on the test. Do we want our children to be robots who just spew out information, or to be creative thinkers who can make good decisions? Teachers are not afraid of being evaluated, in fact, most want those evaluations to help them become even better teachers. The evaluations have to be fair, and not subjective to a test taken by kids with no consequences for doing poorly on the test. Why should a teacher get a poor evaluation because little Johnny just wants to color in bubbles and not actually try? Teachers aren't the ones having to agree on the standards that are taught, that comes from the state level, and decisions on what to teach are mandated by what the government deems important for that subject. If you can't see how this is a political move, then you are blinded by your ignornance. If it was all unions they wanted to dissolve, then all unions would be involved, not just ones backed more by one political party. The public education system is flawed, but should not be fixed on the backs of the people who are trying to make a difference. Everyone should make a sacrifice for the children and their future.

So, tell us how infringing on the students RIGHTS to an education by abandoning the students and the classrooms to got to a protest and act like a bunch of self serving morons is helping those students and their futures. Tell us how infringing on the parents of those students who are now forced to rearrange their entire lives, too include taking time off work at a loss of pay to ensure that their kids are safe and being taken care of BECAUSE THOSE KIDS ARE NOT IN THE CLASSROOMS WHERE THEY BELONG, is helping those students and their futures.

And yes, you're right, the public education system is flawed due to many factors. Too include, lousy teachers, parents, unions, ETC.......Face it, teachers such as yourself need to stop putting yourselves on pedestals. You are no more special then ANYBODY working in the private sector at any capacity. Stop this bullshit of claiming that what's happening in Wisconsin and soon to be elsewhere is an attack on ALL teachers. States are broke. In part due to unsustainable gotten gains by unions and their members. It's time to suck it up, quit friggin' whining, and dig deeper into your pockets just like all other americans are having to do......Like I said, you're not special. You chose the profession. Do your damn jobs effectively, or get the hell out!

Bitter much? It's Sunday, I have the day off. How come we don't see anyone complaining about the cab drivers who were blocking the street? What about the police officers protesting as well? As an american are you saying that the teacher's right to protest is wrong? Ever stop to think that the students protesting with those teachers may be learning about how a democracy actually works? I don't recall putting myself on any pedestal or calling myself special. What's happening in Wisconsin is an attack on a union that represents teachers, it is not an attack on all unions. States are broke, but it's not because of teachers. I do my "damn" job and haven't complained to anybody. What have you given up for the children? How often do you volunteer your time for an interest that isn't yours? Don't lump me into your stereotype. As for having to re-arrange your schedule to take care of your kids..it's called parenting. Keep complaining about teachers, and soon you'll be wondering where they all went.

Those cab drivers aren't denying the rights of those students to an education by abandoning them in their classrooms. The police officers are protesting ON THEIR OWN TIME. They are barred by law from protesting on company time. It's that lil' safety issue thingamajigee. The teachers can go protest on their own time. And should also be barred by law from abandoning students in their classrooms. Those teachers who have elected to abandon theior classrooms, over 600 of them, aren't doing it for the children. They deserve no respect whatsoever. and if those students need to attend some bullshit protest to learn how democracy works, then there are a hell of a lot of civics teachers who obviously fail them in the classroom. Funny thing is, most of those students don't even have a clue as to what they're really protesting about. It's laughable. Those students whose parents who are having to rearrange their schedules, too include losing pay, are struggling just like every other american these days. Imagine what it does to a one income single mother who is barely making ends meet to have to lose pay because their childs teacher/teachers abandoned their class/classrooms. But then why concern yourself with that?

What have I given for the children?........Trust me, the wife and I are in one of the income brackets that liberals deplore. Far more of our taxes have gone into the system then you could ever hope to imagine. Not to mention the money we give to Cal lutheran university's scholarship fund. Contributions to MANNA food bank, and on and on and on.

Those teachers in Wisconsin are pulling in on average 45-75 grand a year. There is no reason whatsoever that they can't afford to bite the bullet like every other american in the private sector is having to do. And that includes giving up collective bargaining.

 

[teachtoteachme]

So, tell us how infringing on the students RIGHTS to an education by abandoning the students and the classrooms to got to a protest and act like a bunch of self serving morons is helping those students and their futures. Tell us how infringing on the parents of those students who are now forced to rearrange their entire lives, too include taking time off work at a loss of pay to ensure that their kids are safe and being taken care of BECAUSE THOSE KIDS ARE NOT IN THE CLASSROOMS WHERE THEY BELONG, is helping those students and their futures.

And yes, you're right, the public education system is flawed due to many factors. Too include, lousy teachers, parents, unions, ETC.......Face it, teachers such as yourself need to stop putting yourselves on pedestals. You are no more special then ANYBODY working in the private sector at any capacity. Stop this bullshit of claiming that what's happening in Wisconsin and soon to be elsewhere is an attack on ALL teachers. States are broke. In part due to unsustainable gotten gains by unions and their members. It's time to suck it up, quit friggin' whining, and dig deeper into your pockets just like all other americans are having to do......Like I said, you're not special. You chose the profession. Do your damn jobs effectively, or get the hell out!

Bitter much? It's Sunday, I have the day off. How come we don't see anyone complaining about the cab drivers who were blocking the street? What about the police officers protesting as well? As an american are you saying that the teacher's right to protest is wrong? Ever stop to think that the students protesting with those teachers may be learning about how a democracy actually works? I don't recall putting myself on any pedestal or calling myself special. What's happening in Wisconsin is an attack on a union that represents teachers, it is not an attack on all unions. States are broke, but it's not because of teachers. I do my "damn" job and haven't complained to anybody. What have you given up for the children? How often do you volunteer your time for an interest that isn't yours? Don't lump me into your stereotype. As for having to re-arrange your schedule to take care of your kids..it's called parenting. Keep complaining about teachers, and soon you'll be wondering where they all went.

Those cab drivers aren't denying the rights of those students to an education by abandoning them in their classrooms. The police officers are protesting ON THEIR OWN TIME. They are barred by law from protesting on company time. It's that lil' safety issue thingamajigee. The teachers can go protest on their own time. And should also be barred by law from abandoning students in their classrooms. Those teachers who have elected to abandon theior classrooms, over 600 of them, aren't doing it for the children. They deserve no respect whatsoever. and if those students need to attend some bullshit protest to learn how democracy works, then there are a hell of a lot of civics teachers who obviously fail them in the classroom. Funny thing is, most of those students don't even have a clue as to what they're really protesting about. It's laughable. Those students whose parents who are having to rearrange their schedules, too include losing pay, are struggling just like every other american these days. Imagine what it does to a one income single mother who is barely making ends meet to have to lose pay because their childs teacher/teachers abandoned their class/classrooms. But then why concern yourself with that?

What have I given for the children?........Trust me, the wife and I are in one of the income brackets that liberals deplore. Far more of our taxes have gone into the system then you could ever hope to imagine. Not to mention the money we give to Cal lutheran university's scholarship fund. Contributions to MANNA food bank, and on and on and on.

Those teachers in Wisconsin are pulling in on average 45-75 grand a year. There is no reason whatsoever that they can't afford to bite the bullet like every other american in the private sector is having to do. And that includes giving up collective bargaining.

It's great that you give to charities for a tax write off. Throwing money at something in hopes to make it better is not the volunteering I'm talking about. I'm guessing you attained that income level through a good education, or good luck, and I'm guessing hard work. Good for you. I don't believe the government should throw or take away money without researching the results. As my original argument stated, this is not what's best for public education, it's what's best for a political party to gain a stronghold on another. My point has never been to criticize anyone. I don't feel a teacher protesting something they believe in is "abandoning" anyone. Fighting for what you believe in, when others don't, is one of the greatest things about being an American. How much should those teachers be worth? You imply that $75K is more then enough for their job, but most attain that level much later in their careers. This is also the highest they can attain on the pay scale in many cases. Most educational pay scales top out at the $75k unless a teacher decides to get a doctorate. Is three degrees enough to make 6 figures? It is obvious that teachers are not respected as other professionals are, seeing as Doctors and lawyers make those figures easily.

 

[California Girl]

I don't pretend to know what line of work you are in, but in whatever job you do, if you were paid on your performance wouldn't you want to be evaluated on what you actually do? Most standardized tests encompass more material then a teacher can possibly cover in a school year, and unless they teach to the test, it is impossible to know what will be covered on the test. Do we want our children to be robots who just spew out information, or to be creative thinkers who can make good decisions? Teachers are not afraid of being evaluated, in fact, most want those evaluations to help them become even better teachers. The evaluations have to be fair, and not subjective to a test taken by kids with no consequences for doing poorly on the test. Why should a teacher get a poor evaluation because little Johnny just wants to color in bubbles and not actually try? Teachers aren't the ones having to agree on the standards that are taught, that comes from the state level, and decisions on what to teach are mandated by what the government deems important for that subject. If you can't see how this is a political move, then you are blinded by your ignornance. If it was all unions they wanted to dissolve, then all unions would be involved, not just ones backed more by one political party. The public education system is flawed, but should not be fixed on the backs of the people who are trying to make a difference. Everyone should make a sacrifice for the children and their future.

You used 'then' instead of 'than', and misspelled 'ignorance'. Some great teacher, you are. Not.

If you are a teacher, you make a sacrifice.... the rest of America already has. In the real world - the private sector, where most of those kids you teach will end up, we're losing jobs and benefits. Anti up, teacher. Show us how much you care about these kids and this country.... sacrifice with the rest.

And... for the record.... I have yet to meet a child from the public school system who could 'think creatively'. The skill of critical thinking is, from what I can see, not being taught in public schools... You're too busy teaching the kids to be liberals. You don't want individual thought - you want group think in the Obamanation.

When comparing one thing with another you may find that one is more appealing “than” another. “Than” is the word you want when doing comparisons. But if you are talking about time, choose “then“: “First you separate the eggs; then you beat the whites.” Alexis is smarter than I, not “then I.”

Which sentence were you referring to? I'm so glad you can point out my typo instead of my argument. I never said I was an English teacher. Just because you haven't met a child who is a creative thinker from the public school doesn't mean they don't exist. If you are not a product of a public school, thank your parents for raising such an open-minded person who insults strangers based on a stereotype.

As for the sacrifices I have made, your generalization that I have not made any prove your "ignorance". You know nothing about me, yet you feel it necessary to lump me into your cynical world. Easy to act the "bully" behind a computer screen isn't it? When you are ready to debate without throwing insults, then maybe you will have some credibility.

We have a rule on this board..... it's 'no family' so you can keep your comments about my parents out of your whining.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Bitter much? It's Sunday, I have the day off. How come we don't see anyone complaining about the cab drivers who were blocking the street? What about the police officers protesting as well? As an american are you saying that the teacher's right to protest is wrong? Ever stop to think that the students protesting with those teachers may be learning about how a democracy actually works? I don't recall putting myself on any pedestal or calling myself special. What's happening in Wisconsin is an attack on a union that represents teachers, it is not an attack on all unions. States are broke, but it's not because of teachers. I do my "damn" job and haven't complained to anybody. What have you given up for the children? How often do you volunteer your time for an interest that isn't yours? Don't lump me into your stereotype. As for having to re-arrange your schedule to take care of your kids..it's called parenting. Keep complaining about teachers, and soon you'll be wondering where they all went.

Those cab drivers aren't denying the rights of those students to an education by abandoning them in their classrooms. The police officers are protesting ON THEIR OWN TIME. They are barred by law from protesting on company time. It's that lil' safety issue thingamajigee. The teachers can go protest on their own time. And should also be barred by law from abandoning students in their classrooms. Those teachers who have elected to abandon theior classrooms, over 600 of them, aren't doing it for the children. They deserve no respect whatsoever. and if those students need to attend some bullshit protest to learn how democracy works, then there are a hell of a lot of civics teachers who obviously fail them in the classroom. Funny thing is, most of those students don't even have a clue as to what they're really protesting about. It's laughable. Those students whose parents who are having to rearrange their schedules, too include losing pay, are struggling just like every other american these days. Imagine what it does to a one income single mother who is barely making ends meet to have to lose pay because their childs teacher/teachers abandoned their class/classrooms. But then why concern yourself with that?

What have I given for the children?........Trust me, the wife and I are in one of the income brackets that liberals deplore. Far more of our taxes have gone into the system then you could ever hope to imagine. Not to mention the money we give to Cal lutheran university's scholarship fund. Contributions to MANNA food bank, and on and on and on.

Those teachers in Wisconsin are pulling in on average 45-75 grand a year. There is no reason whatsoever that they can't afford to bite the bullet like every other american in the private sector is having to do. And that includes giving up collective bargaining.

It's great that you give to charities for a tax write off. Throwing money at something in hopes to make it better is not the volunteering I'm talking about. I'm guessing you attained that income level through a good education, or good luck, and I'm guessing hard work. Good for you. I don't believe the government should throw or take away money without researching the results. As my original argument stated, this is not what's best for public education, it's what's best for a political party to gain a stronghold on another. My point has never been to criticize anyone. I don't feel a teacher protesting something they believe in is "abandoning" anyone. Fighting for what you believe in, when others don't, is one of the greatest things about being an American. How much should those teachers be worth? You imply that $75K is more then enough for their job, but most attain that level much later in their careers. This is also the highest they can attain on the pay scale in many cases. Most educational pay scales top out at the $75k unless a teacher decides to get a doctorate. Is three degrees enough to make 6 figures? It is obvious that teachers are not respected as other professionals are, seeing as Doctors and lawyers make those figures easily.

LMAO.......You imply that we donate for the write off?......How are we making anything when we just turn around every year and redonate it?

Fighting for what you believe in is perfectly fine. DO IT ON YOUR OWN DAMN TIME. Stop stepping on the rights of the students to an education. Stop bleeding the parents of much needed pay. Stop calling in sick to go protest, you're only screwing the school baords, taxpayers, students, and their parents. You are commiting fraud when doing so.......At least the school board has said they will go after those teachers who called in sick and are identified as being in the protests. The State AG has now said he has no choice but to look into possible criminal activity......GOOD!

And yes, 45-75 g's is perfectly in line for the jobs they do. Particularly considering the very generous benefits and pensions you receive. Not to mention all the time off.

 

[Annie]

Bitter much? It's Sunday, I have the day off. How come we don't see anyone complaining about the cab drivers who were blocking the street? What about the police officers protesting as well? As an american are you saying that the teacher's right to protest is wrong? Ever stop to think that the students protesting with those teachers may be learning about how a democracy actually works? I don't recall putting myself on any pedestal or calling myself special. What's happening in Wisconsin is an attack on a union that represents teachers, it is not an attack on all unions. States are broke, but it's not because of teachers. I do my "damn" job and haven't complained to anybody. What have you given up for the children? How often do you volunteer your time for an interest that isn't yours? Don't lump me into your stereotype. As for having to re-arrange your schedule to take care of your kids..it's called parenting. Keep complaining about teachers, and soon you'll be wondering where they all went.

Those cab drivers aren't denying the rights of those students to an education by abandoning them in their classrooms. The police officers are protesting ON THEIR OWN TIME. They are barred by law from protesting on company time. It's that lil' safety issue thingamajigee. The teachers can go protest on their own time. And should also be barred by law from abandoning students in their classrooms. Those teachers who have elected to abandon theior classrooms, over 600 of them, aren't doing it for the children. They deserve no respect whatsoever. and if those students need to attend some bullshit protest to learn how democracy works, then there are a hell of a lot of civics teachers who obviously fail them in the classroom. Funny thing is, most of those students don't even have a clue as to what they're really protesting about. It's laughable. Those students whose parents who are having to rearrange their schedules, too include losing pay, are struggling just like every other american these days. Imagine what it does to a one income single mother who is barely making ends meet to have to lose pay because their childs teacher/teachers abandoned their class/classrooms. But then why concern yourself with that?

What have I given for the children?........Trust me, the wife and I are in one of the income brackets that liberals deplore. Far more of our taxes have gone into the system then you could ever hope to imagine. Not to mention the money we give to Cal lutheran university's scholarship fund. Contributions to MANNA food bank, and on and on and on.

Those teachers in Wisconsin are pulling in on average 45-75 grand a year. There is no reason whatsoever that they can't afford to bite the bullet like every other american in the private sector is having to do. And that includes giving up collective bargaining.

It's great that you give to charities for a tax write off. Throwing money at something in hopes to make it better is not the volunteering I'm talking about. I'm guessing you attained that income level through a good education, or good luck, and I'm guessing hard work. Good for you. I don't believe the government should throw or take away money without researching the results. As my original argument stated, this is not what's best for public education, it's what's best for a political party to gain a stronghold on another. My point has never been to criticize anyone. I don't feel a teacher protesting something they believe in is "abandoning" anyone. Fighting for what you believe in, when others don't, is one of the greatest things about being an American. How much should those teachers be worth? You imply that $75K is more then enough for their job, but most attain that level much later in their careers. This is also the highest they can attain on the pay scale in many cases. Most educational pay scales top out at the $75k unless a teacher decides to get a doctorate. Is three degrees enough to make 6 figures? It is obvious that teachers are not respected as other professionals are, seeing as Doctors and lawyers make those figures easily.

What you are quoting as topping out are the lower paying states. Around here, (IL) there are many teachers making well over $100k, some in the neighborhood of $170k with extracurricular pay figured in. Yes, they have all the goldens too regarding benefits added on top of those salaries. Yes, I wish I had one of those jobs which doesn't change the fact that they are non-sustainable. Even in wealthy areas, this is too far a discrepancy between the average income of the taxpayer, nearly double avg family income, never mind average worker income.

No one is denying the teachers or anyone the right to protest. They are angry that they are getting paid for it while calling in sick en masse, which has resulted in havoc with parents work and will cause havoc for the days lost at the end of the year.

 

[saveliberty]

Simple really. Order them back to work and fire those who don't comply ala Reagan and air traffic controllers. Video tape all the protestors.

 

[Dr.House]

Have the chickenshit democratic senators returned from their undisclosed location where they ran away to yet?

 

[Samson]

Of course not! Because there is no change made between Union and nonUnion teachers. They just call themselves nonUnion & carry on with Union activities all the way to lobbyist in DC. Instead of paying dues, they pay for Umbrella Insurance like a doctor does.

Legal Protection

Included in the $2,000,000 individual liability insurance policy purchased for each professional member, AAE Legal Protection benefits ensure that members have access to legal counsel at the onset of workplace issues and Defense costs related to liability insurance claims are paid in addition to the $2,000,000 limit. Legal coverage applies to any legal action arising out of duties as an employee of an education entity, including:

civil rights cases
lawsuits against the insured by parents or other teachers
lawsuits against the insured for injunctive relief, declaratory relief, or other non-monetary relief
sexual misconduct (if found not guilty or charges are dropped)
corporal punishment (if found not guilty or charges are dropped)



Employment Rights Coverage

Included in the $2,000,000 individual liability insurance policy purchased for each professional member, AAE Employment Rights Coverage ensures that members have access to legal counsel at the onset of workplace employment issues. Members are able to immediately consult with an attorney if they are threatened with termination, suspension, reassignment, or demotion. AAE Employment Rights Coverage provides or reimburses for an attorney to be involved with consultation and hearings (up to specified limits).

Member Benefits

Not sure if we're on the same page:

A group that collectively bargains with an insurance company =/= a group that collectively bargains with their employer

OH, so you just oppose having one voice represent many voices for wages & benefits? Isn't that undemocratic of you? UnCapitalistic of you? Do you also oppose Corporate board meetings with CEOs present to negotiate wages & benefits & bonuses? Are they making too much as well?

And it is not an insurance company, it is a teachers association that has insurance as a member benefit.



AAE is America's fastest growing national, nonprofit, nonunion teachers' association with members in all 50 states.



AAE offers professional member benefits such as liability insurance and legal protection, professional development, newsletters, scholarships, classroom grants, and a voice on educational issues—but at a fraction of the cost of most other associations' dues.

You seem hopelessly confused.

AAE offers member benefits. USAA offers member benefits.

But neither offers collective bargaining representation to employers of their membership. Therefore your posts about them are offtopic in a thread about Teacher UNIONS.

Now to address your frothy nonsensical ravings:

OH, so you just oppose having one voice represent many voices for wages & benefits? Isn't that undemocratic of you? UnCapitalistic of you? Do you also oppose Corporate board meetings with CEOs present to negotiate wages & benefits & bonuses? Are they making too much as well?

I oppose government employees walking off the job and impairing the national security, commerce, and health.

Frankly, I'm not even sure why having public school teachers is better than simply having the private sector control education, where I would find unionization of teachers quite acceptable. But if people are going to accept a GOVERNMENT job, then they'd better also accept they are employed by the PUBLIC TRUST.

 

[chanel]

If they broke the law, arrest them.

But is the argumenrt is over 56K and health insurance, arrest the politicians. Teachers are not responsible for the 16K health insurance bill.

Obamacare was supposed to lower those premiums, right?
Perhaos the finger pointing is in the wrong direction.

Just sayin...