Zone1 Lawsuit alleges Harvard gives preferential treatment to legacy admissions, who are ‘overwhelmingly’ White

[AZrailwhale]

I can't wait until these bigots get rid of legacy admissions. I don't care. No one in my family has ever benefited from preferential treatment. We worked hard and paid our own way. LMAO, legacy admissions go away and black legacies are refused as well. Critical thinking doesn't seem to be a thing in modern society.

I don't see legacy admissions ever being ruled unconstitutional. There is too much money involved. The rules for the rich are different than those for the common citizen. They always have been and always will be. If SCOTUS rules the practice unconstitutional, the congress will simply pass a law making it legal and the rich will spend whatever money is necessary to maintain the advantage for their offspring. Face it, if every millionaire gave just a thousand dollars each, it would build a war chest for the defense of billions of dollars.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Nobody should be able to buy their way into college. If the student qualifies via highest test scores and other measurable criteria used to evaluate a student,s likelihood of achieving academic success, that student should be admitted whether he/she is white, black, brown, Asian, straight, gay, pink, polka dot.

You ARE an optimist. Students have always been able to buy their way into prestigious higher educational facilities. I had a friend who went to UCLA back in the sixties, the graduates would often make the unfunny joke that you had to have brains to go the UCLA, but only money to go to USC. Do you think poor kids got into Eton back in the day? The entire Ivy League was a place the rich kids went to to network and prepare for their futures. The Army was the same way, well connected kids went to West point, the rest went to VMI or Texas A&M

 

[Foxfyre]

You are an optimist. Students have always been able to buy their way into prestigious higher educational facilities. I had a friend who went to UCLA back in the sixties, the graduates would often make the unfunny joke that you had to have brains to go the UCLA, but only money to go to USC. Do you think poor kids got into Eton back in the day? The entire Ivy League was a place the rich kids went to to network and prepare for their futures. The Army was the same way, well connected kids went to West point, the rest went to VMI or Texas A&M

I don't deny that many students benefitted from their parents or other relatives being alumni and big donors to schools and I have mixed emotions/opinions about that. They still needed to qualify for admission, but in those cases should a history with school have some benefit? I don't know. I haven't thought that through sufficiently to have a hard opinion about it.

Poor kids or middle income kids shouldn't be going to the Ivy League schools and running up massive debt in the process unless they merit a scholarship that helps them out significantly. But those scholarships can be earned by poor kids just as they can by rich kids.

Those admitted to the military academies need a nomination by somebody or some organization with clout or by alumni and still have to have sufficient academic achievement, etc. It has always been that way. My daughter qualified for two Ivy League schools but instead choose to go to Stanford for her Masters and Doctorate. We were by no means rich, in fact were lower middle class and could no way afford to send a kid to Stanford. But her academic record qualified her for scholarships/fellowships purely on merit that got her through without a huge amount of student debt. (She paid off that debt herself by the way.)

 

[AZrailwhale]

Did you read what I said? Let the blacks who got admitted this year due to race go ahead, knowing how they lucked out. Starting with the next academic years, no more favoring blacks. Poor Jewish boys with excellent grades and top scores will no longer be punished for their race and tossed aside.

It's the only way to do it. It takes time for organizations to develop guidelines and procedures. What's done is done.

 

[IM2]

Why do overtly racist comments by certain posters never get deleted in this thread?

I'm tired of reading the everybody but blacks are qualified bs by certain posters here. If that's not trolling then nothing is.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Or they recognized that the Asian Kid who only got a high GPA because his Tiger Mom refused to give him dinner if he came home with an A- wasn't going to do well in an interactive group setting.



Or that they overcame more obstacles.

Let's take step back here. You say that "If only black people would avoid getting pregnant in HS (even though teen pregnancy is at an all time low) and got good grades, they could be totally successful like the Jews are!" (Forgetting that the Jews are white and no one really cares what religion you belong to.) And a black kid does exactly that, and you say, "Nope, you didn't get as good a grade as the Asian Kid, even though Asians have twice as many slots as Harvard with only being half that percentage of the population!"


I agree. Let's get rid of the ALDC admissions, that favor other less qualified white people, and then we can have more slots.

The reality is of the 22 million people in college, only 23,000 of them will get to go to Harvard. We are arguing over 0.1% of college admissions, because we've given Harvard an outsized role in our national politics.

Let me tell you a story. My high school was plurality Asian. They weren't a majority, but lumped together they were the largest ethnic group. In the eleventh grade the Honors Program Social Studies class was run by a teacher who actually believed in teaching, not rote learning. The first day of class he asked a random student his opinion on a subject, then told him to defend it against another student attacking it. In the whole semester we never opened the textbook, the entire subject was taught that way. I never worked so hard in a class in high school. Over half the class were Asians and they couldn't function in that setting. They were smart and driven but couldn't argue their points well. When their grades started showing up, the parent got up in arms and a second class was formed for them using traditional rote learning. Both classes tested out at the same level in finals. It just proved to me the old adage "horses for courses". No race is inherently smarter or dumber than any other race. But some groups in all races fail to value education. A Central American peasant, Appalachian hillbilly or Black raised in the ghetto is not likely to value education as much as an upper-class Latino, middle class White or Black set of parents who see education as the golden key to a prosperous future for their kids. Uneducated people rarely see the value of educating their children.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I don't deny that many students benefitted from their parents or other relatives being alumni and big donors to schools and I have mixed emotions/opinions about that. They still needed to qualify for admission, but in those cases should a history with school have some benefit? I don't know. I haven't thought that through sufficiently to have a hard opinion about it.

Poor kids or middle income kids shouldn't be going to the Ivy League schools and running up massive debt in the process unless they merit a scholarship that helps them out significantly. But those scholarships can be earned by poor kids just as they can by rich kids.

Those admitted to the military academies need a nomination by somebody or some organization with clout or by alumni and still have to have sufficient academic achievement, etc. It has always been that way. My daughter qualified for two Ivy League schools but instead choose to go to Stanford for her Masters and Doctorate. We were by no means rich, in fact were lower middle class and could no way afford to send a kid to Stanford. But her academic record qualified her for scholarships/fellowships purely on merit that got her through without a huge amount of student debt. (She paid off that debt herself by the way.)

I agree and that's the way it should be. Potential students should be judged on their individual merits and deficits, NOT the color of their skins. I think economic hardship is a valid consideration as long as it's applied equally and without racial bias.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Why do overtly racist comments by certain posters never get deleted in this thread?

I'm tired of reading the everybody but blacks are qualified bs by certain posters here. If that's not trolling then nothing is.

They don't get deleted because only you see objective comments as being racist. You have proven over and over again that you consider anyone who disagrees with you to even a tiny extent is a racist. You've even turned-on people who adamantly support you on almost every issue and called them racists because they disagreed with you on one tiny issue.

 

[Lisa558]

I agree and that's the way it should be. Potential students should be judged on their individual merits and deficits, NOT the color of their skins. I think economic hardship is a valid consideration as long as it's applied equally and without racial bias.

I’ve said this before (but it gets ignored because it doesn’t fit in with SOME posters on this forum who keep insisting I’m racist for wanting race-blind admissions), but I’d be for Affirmative Action based on on a combination of socio-economic status and academic accomplishments and with no regard to race.

Here’s how it would work:

The top 5% of every high school class in America, who also come from households earning less than $100,000 would be granted automatic admission to State U - and tuition paid if they select from among a list of career-oriented majors. (Accounting, engineering, teaching, etc.) If they wanted to major in something unlikely to lead to a professional job, they would still be admitted but taxpayers would not pay their freight.

Race would be immaterial. The only two factors to be considered are scholastic ability and HHI.

 

[Foxfyre]

I agree and that's the way it should be. Potential students should be judged on their individual merits and deficits, NOT the color of their skins. I think economic hardship is a valid consideration as long as it's applied equally and without racial bias.

Even those in economic hardship should not be admitted if they do not qualify. The poor white kid with marginal grades should not be given preference to the black kid with good grades or vice versa. If admission standards are uniform and applied without prejudice of any kind, and some demographic is not qualifying for admission, it's time to start questioning public education as to why is isn't properly educating and preparing those students for college.

We don't lower standards so more can qualify without creating more mediocrity and less competence and poorer results. The goal should be on working on motivating and empowering people to qualify to meet the highest standards.

 

[Lisa558]

They don't get deleted because only you see objective comments as being racist. You have proven over and over again that you consider anyone who disagrees with you to even a tiny extent is a racist. You've even turned-on people who adamantly support you on almost every issue and called them racists because they disagreed with you on one tiny issue.

The problem is that people like IM2 consider everyone who doesn’t go along with giving blacks a special advantage - and instead wants race-blind decisions - to be a racist.

It reminds me of what our former Leftist Governor said when people objected to his proposal for two pay scales for teachers, a higher one for blacks (regardless of their competence) and a lower one for whites (also regardless of their competence): He angrily declared that anyone who objects to paying blacks more than whites is a racist.

P.S. He lost his bid for re-election.

 

[Concerned American]

I don't see legacy admissions ever being ruled unconstitutional. There is too much money involved. The rules for the rich are different than those for the common citizen. They always have been and always will be. If SCOTUS rules the practice unconstitutional, the congress will simply pass a law making it legal and the rich will spend whatever money is necessary to maintain the advantage for their offspring. Face it, if every millionaire gave just a thousand dollars each, it would build a war chest for the defense of billions of dollars.

The SCOTUS doesn't have to. The schools will do away with them for everyone, you know the DEI argument that will be pushed by BLM or some other equally racist org. because their group of choice isn't getting what they perceive as fair treatment.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

We have black racists here insisting *I* only got to where I was - including accepted at my university - is because of Affirmative Action, so I know how you feel there. But I myself never said that you, or every black, got into their university due to AA, only that the majority did - which is a fact: 2 out of 3.

As far as universities now doing a work-around using obstacles, I could write an essay explaining how during the 1940s when my dad was a teen, he lost his grandmother, aunt, uncle, and four cousins to Hitler - knowing that the reason they were murdered was due to their being Jewish - and knew of the anguish in the early weeks (when the letters stopped) and the grief of the later months (when it was obvious they were gone) and heard his mother cry every night - and STILL he buckled down to win a free college education by studying hard. In doing so, he moved from the abject poverty of his childhood to middle-class homeownership in less than 10 years.

I could continue as to how this inspired me though the hard times, including my own experiences with antisemitism (and I would give examoles) knowing that Jews such as my dad did not let the horror of the Holocaust derail them from their dreams, and moved forward knowing that there was such hatred of Jews that they were being slaughtered by the millions - WHILE this was happening.

Now. The problem will come in if Jewish applicants with a 4.0 GPA and a 1540 with this story are rejected over a blacks with a 3.6 and a 1200 SAT with a story such as yours. The SCOTUS also ruled that universities cannot use indirect ways to achieve the same outcome - ultimately factoring in race.

I wasn't referring to you, this happened on AOL close to 30 years ago.

It's interesting though that in the scenario you outlined, you just assume that you were a superior student GPA & SAT wise to me with or without my having "a story", which I did not. So in your mind you are the more deserving student when all else is equal?

 

[Lisa558]

I wasn't referring to you, this happened on AOL close to 30 years ago.

It's interesting though that in the scenario you outlined, you just assume that you were a superior student GPA & SAT wise to me with or without my having "a story", which I did not. So in your mind you are the more deserving student when all else is equal?

You leftists ALWAYS do that: argue against a scenario your opponent never presented!

I never said I would be the more deserving student, all things being equal, nor did I assume I had a superior GPA and SAT to you. (Wow. Where the hell did you come up with that one?)

To repeat: I said there will be a problem if Jewish students with excellent GPAs and SATs speaks of how massive bigotry impacted their lives, and black students with worse GPAs and SAT speak of how massive bigotry impacted their lives, and the Admissions Committer time and time and time again picks the poorer-scoring/GPA blacks over the better scoring/grades Jews.

 

[Foxfyre]

Did you read what I said? Let the blacks who got admitted this year due to race go ahead, knowing how they lucked out. Starting with the next academic years, no more favoring blacks. Poor Jewish boys with excellent grades and top scores will no longer be punished for their race and tossed aside.

On the other hand, those who bribed admissions officials, hired people to take the SATs or otherwise blatantly cheated to get their kids into top schools should not be rewarded. Those students should be expelled with whatever credits they have earned but they should not be allowed to stay.

I agree that those already in school via the rules whatever they were at any given time should be allowed to complete their education and only new admissions should be subject to new rules that are hopefully more race blind and favor the best students.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You leftists ALWAYS do that: argue against a scenario your opponent never presented!

I never said I would be the more deserving student, all things being equal, nor did I assume I had a superior GPA and SAT to you. (Wow. Where the hell did you come up with that one?)

To repeat: I said there will be a problem if Jewish students with excellent GPAs and SATs speaks of how massive bigotry impacted their lives, and black students with worse GPAs and SAT speak of how massive bigotry impacted their lives, and the Admissions Committer time and time and time again picks the poorer-scoring/GPA blacks over the better scoring/grades Jews.

So there is no concern that Black students with excellent GPAs and SATs are being displaced by preference given to Jewish students with worse GPAs & SATs?

 

[Lisa558]

So there is no concern that Black students with excellent GPAs and SATs are being displaced by preference given to Jewish students with worse GPAs & SATs?

That doesn’t happen. The admission cut-off for blacks is much lower than for Jews, assuming they’re white.

 

[JoeB131]

If our schools have been turning out unthinking automatons for forty years, why have Americans made pioneering advances in computer technology? Why are we ahead in space exploration?

Um, because if you want to excell in those fields, you come to America where we are working on them.

The point is, despite spending the m ost on education, we trail other G-7 countries.

Intelligent people do not need to be taught to the test. They can figure things out. Teaching to the test is a way of getting a few more points out of low IQ people.

Most people aren't intelligent. If they were, Trump never would have been a contender.

I know you love standardized testing because you think it demonstrates your racism (rather than the reality of racial inequities). But they've made our system worse.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The SCOTUS doesn't have to. The schools will do away with them for everyone, you know the DEI argument that will be pushed by BLM or some other equally racist org. because their group of choice isn't getting what they perceive as fair treatment.

UHH were talking about legacy enrolments, NOT racial favoritism.

 

[Concerned American]

UHH were talking about legacy enrolments, NOT racial favoritism.

Read the OP -- the crux was that the majority of legacy students were white. What do you call that. Please keep up.