Led Zeppelin "Stole"...

[ChrisL]

Led Zeppelin made all of those songs sound great!

Actually they made their legal bills sound Yuuuuge. You just can't grab work somebody else did and go "uh yeah we wrote that, that's the ticket!" Sleazeballs.

If Led Zeppelin hadn't done those songs, a lot of people would have never even heard of them. While I notice some subtle similarities, LZ made them their own.

I'm afraid that's nowhere near a legal argument on an intellectual property case.

The fact remains --- as it should --- you just can't grab somebody else's labor and claim you did it. That's illegal, as it should be. Go ahead and LICENSE their song, with proper credits, put YOUR arrangement on it, whatever you want. But don't go around telling the world you created something that somebody else created.

Well, you make a good point, but I still like Led Zeppelin the band. I like their sound and I like their music.

All I'll say about that is....

-- I used to play violin in a jug band. When my playing got sloppy the guys would get on my case with comments like "hey, you're sounding like Jimmy Page" They knew what I think of Jimmy Page's musical diction.

Actually we used to do that song I posted above, the Gilligan's Island lyrics attached to "Stairway". I would do the Jimmy Page solos. Authentically.

Well, I think you would be in the minority in that opinion. LZ was very influential for many great musicians.

 

[ChrisL]

No Quarter. Great tune!

 

[eflatminor]

Led Zeppelin made all of those songs sound great!

Actually they made their legal bills sound Yuuuuge. You just can't grab work somebody else did and go "uh yeah we wrote that, that's the ticket!" Sleazeballs.

If Led Zeppelin hadn't done those songs, a lot of people would have never even heard of them. While I notice some subtle similarities, LZ made them their own.

I'm afraid that's nowhere near a legal argument on an intellectual property case.

The fact remains --- as it should --- you just can't grab somebody else's labor and claim you did it. That's illegal, as it should be. Go ahead and LICENSE their song, with proper credits, put YOUR arrangement on it, whatever you want. But don't go around telling the world you created something that somebody else created.

Another poster mentioned Hendrix doing "All Along the Watchtower". Check that record and you'll see Bob Dylan's name under it, credited properly. Hendrix never tried to claim "I wrote that".

Were these old blues songs copyrighted? Before 1978, I understand that would be required for protection. If so, I would think this a simple civil matter.

Whatever the monetary settlement, it's hard to deny that bands like Zeppelin introduced earlier Blues to millions upon millions of new fans. They brought new light to what was at the time, a dying art form. I hold no ill will for that kind of result.

 

[ChrisL]

 

[Pogo]

Our jug band also performed the entire Beatles White Album (which we called the Shite Album) on the basis that we had originally written and recorded all those songs in 1934 and when they were dumped into the sea they just happened to wash up in Liverpool, where "the Beatles stole all our songs".

 

[ChrisL]

Our jug band also performed the entire Beatles White Album (which we called the Shite Album) on the basis that we had originally written and recorded all those songs in 1934 and when they were dumped into the sea they just happened to wash up in Liverpool, where "the Beatles stole all our songs".

Great guitar solo by Jimmy in My Time of Dying.

 

[Pogo]

Led Zeppelin made all of those songs sound great!

Actually they made their legal bills sound Yuuuuge. You just can't grab work somebody else did and go "uh yeah we wrote that, that's the ticket!" Sleazeballs.

If Led Zeppelin hadn't done those songs, a lot of people would have never even heard of them. While I notice some subtle similarities, LZ made them their own.

I'm afraid that's nowhere near a legal argument on an intellectual property case.

The fact remains --- as it should --- you just can't grab somebody else's labor and claim you did it. That's illegal, as it should be. Go ahead and LICENSE their song, with proper credits, put YOUR arrangement on it, whatever you want. But don't go around telling the world you created something that somebody else created.

Another poster mentioned Hendrix doing "All Along the Watchtower". Check that record and you'll see Bob Dylan's name under it, credited properly. Hendrix never tried to claim "I wrote that".

Were these old blues songs copyrighted? Before 1978, I understand that would be required for protection. If so, I would think this a simple civil matter.

Whatever the monetary settlement, it's hard to deny that bands like Zeppelin introduced earlier Blues to millions upon millions of new fans. They brought new light to what was at the time, a dying art form. I hold no ill will for that kind of result.

Actually John Mayall and Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck et al were already doing that. By the time LZ began Cream was already disbanding, so your chronology's a bit shaky. For that matter Jimmy Page was doing it before LZ too.

Copyrights vary with each tune of course but in the case of Jake Holmes posted earlier I believe his was released in 1967. And he was clearly ripped off. Moby Grape was another contemporary band ripped off.

I believe Willie Dixon got a settlement -- or his record company did.

 

[ChrisL]

Oh man, I have to post this in my breakup songs thread! I don't know how I could have not thought of it! That is horrifying!

 

[eflatminor]

Led Zeppelin made all of those songs sound great!

Actually they made their legal bills sound Yuuuuge. You just can't grab work somebody else did and go "uh yeah we wrote that, that's the ticket!" Sleazeballs.

If Led Zeppelin hadn't done those songs, a lot of people would have never even heard of them. While I notice some subtle similarities, LZ made them their own.

I'm afraid that's nowhere near a legal argument on an intellectual property case.

The fact remains --- as it should --- you just can't grab somebody else's labor and claim you did it. That's illegal, as it should be. Go ahead and LICENSE their song, with proper credits, put YOUR arrangement on it, whatever you want. But don't go around telling the world you created something that somebody else created.

Another poster mentioned Hendrix doing "All Along the Watchtower". Check that record and you'll see Bob Dylan's name under it, credited properly. Hendrix never tried to claim "I wrote that".

Were these old blues songs copyrighted? Before 1978, I understand that would be required for protection. If so, I would think this a simple civil matter.

Whatever the monetary settlement, it's hard to deny that bands like Zeppelin introduced earlier Blues to millions upon millions of new fans. They brought new light to what was at the time, a dying art form. I hold no ill will for that kind of result.

Actually John Mayall and Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck et al were already doing that. By the time LZ began Cream was already disbanding, so your chronology's a bit shaky. For that matter Jimmy Page was doing it before LZ too.

Copyrights vary with each tune of course but in the case of Jake Holmes posted earlier I believe his was released in 1967. And he was clearly ripped off. Moby Grape was another contemporary band ripped off.

I believe Willie Dixon got a settlement -- or his record company did.

Oh good lord, you can be such a pain in the ass. I was referring to all those guys from that era that were inspired by old Blues. I'm well aware of the chronology.

Whatever, they worked in out in court or they didn't. I dig the music.

 

[Pogo]

Actually they made their legal bills sound Yuuuuge. You just can't grab work somebody else did and go "uh yeah we wrote that, that's the ticket!" Sleazeballs.

If Led Zeppelin hadn't done those songs, a lot of people would have never even heard of them. While I notice some subtle similarities, LZ made them their own.

I'm afraid that's nowhere near a legal argument on an intellectual property case.

The fact remains --- as it should --- you just can't grab somebody else's labor and claim you did it. That's illegal, as it should be. Go ahead and LICENSE their song, with proper credits, put YOUR arrangement on it, whatever you want. But don't go around telling the world you created something that somebody else created.

Another poster mentioned Hendrix doing "All Along the Watchtower". Check that record and you'll see Bob Dylan's name under it, credited properly. Hendrix never tried to claim "I wrote that".

Were these old blues songs copyrighted? Before 1978, I understand that would be required for protection. If so, I would think this a simple civil matter.

Whatever the monetary settlement, it's hard to deny that bands like Zeppelin introduced earlier Blues to millions upon millions of new fans. They brought new light to what was at the time, a dying art form. I hold no ill will for that kind of result.

Actually John Mayall and Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck et al were already doing that. By the time LZ began Cream was already disbanding, so your chronology's a bit shaky. For that matter Jimmy Page was doing it before LZ too.

Copyrights vary with each tune of course but in the case of Jake Holmes posted earlier I believe his was released in 1967. And he was clearly ripped off. Moby Grape was another contemporary band ripped off.

I believe Willie Dixon got a settlement -- or his record company did.

Oh good lord, you can be such a pain in the ass. I was referring to all those guys from that era that were inspired by old Blues. I'm well aware of the chronology.

Whatever, they worked in out in court or they didn't. I dig the music.

Hey, I have a memory, so sue me. Fact is, LZ appeared in 1969. By then the blues "rediscovery" was well under way. I was there, I remember what came when.

In any event the topic's not about whether LZ made good music or how many dug them. It's about plagiarism.

 

[eflatminor]

If Led Zeppelin hadn't done those songs, a lot of people would have never even heard of them. While I notice some subtle similarities, LZ made them their own.

I'm afraid that's nowhere near a legal argument on an intellectual property case.

The fact remains --- as it should --- you just can't grab somebody else's labor and claim you did it. That's illegal, as it should be. Go ahead and LICENSE their song, with proper credits, put YOUR arrangement on it, whatever you want. But don't go around telling the world you created something that somebody else created.

Another poster mentioned Hendrix doing "All Along the Watchtower". Check that record and you'll see Bob Dylan's name under it, credited properly. Hendrix never tried to claim "I wrote that".

Were these old blues songs copyrighted? Before 1978, I understand that would be required for protection. If so, I would think this a simple civil matter.

Whatever the monetary settlement, it's hard to deny that bands like Zeppelin introduced earlier Blues to millions upon millions of new fans. They brought new light to what was at the time, a dying art form. I hold no ill will for that kind of result.

Actually John Mayall and Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck et al were already doing that. By the time LZ began Cream was already disbanding, so your chronology's a bit shaky. For that matter Jimmy Page was doing it before LZ too.

Copyrights vary with each tune of course but in the case of Jake Holmes posted earlier I believe his was released in 1967. And he was clearly ripped off. Moby Grape was another contemporary band ripped off.

I believe Willie Dixon got a settlement -- or his record company did.

Oh good lord, you can be such a pain in the ass. I was referring to all those guys from that era that were inspired by old Blues. I'm well aware of the chronology.

Whatever, they worked in out in court or they didn't. I dig the music.

Hey, I have a memory, so sue me. Fact is, LZ appeared in 1969. By then the blues "rediscovery" was well under way. I was there, I remember what came when.

You can't help yourself, I get it.

 

[ChrisL]

If Led Zeppelin hadn't done those songs, a lot of people would have never even heard of them. While I notice some subtle similarities, LZ made them their own.

I'm afraid that's nowhere near a legal argument on an intellectual property case.

The fact remains --- as it should --- you just can't grab somebody else's labor and claim you did it. That's illegal, as it should be. Go ahead and LICENSE their song, with proper credits, put YOUR arrangement on it, whatever you want. But don't go around telling the world you created something that somebody else created.

Another poster mentioned Hendrix doing "All Along the Watchtower". Check that record and you'll see Bob Dylan's name under it, credited properly. Hendrix never tried to claim "I wrote that".

Were these old blues songs copyrighted? Before 1978, I understand that would be required for protection. If so, I would think this a simple civil matter.

Whatever the monetary settlement, it's hard to deny that bands like Zeppelin introduced earlier Blues to millions upon millions of new fans. They brought new light to what was at the time, a dying art form. I hold no ill will for that kind of result.

Actually John Mayall and Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck et al were already doing that. By the time LZ began Cream was already disbanding, so your chronology's a bit shaky. For that matter Jimmy Page was doing it before LZ too.

Copyrights vary with each tune of course but in the case of Jake Holmes posted earlier I believe his was released in 1967. And he was clearly ripped off. Moby Grape was another contemporary band ripped off.

I believe Willie Dixon got a settlement -- or his record company did.

Oh good lord, you can be such a pain in the ass. I was referring to all those guys from that era that were inspired by old Blues. I'm well aware of the chronology.

Whatever, they worked in out in court or they didn't. I dig the music.

Hey, I have a memory, so sue me. Fact is, LZ appeared in 1969. By then the blues "rediscovery" was well under way. I was there, I remember what came when.

He's right. LZ has plenty of original songs. So there!

 

[Pogo]

I'm afraid that's nowhere near a legal argument on an intellectual property case.

The fact remains --- as it should --- you just can't grab somebody else's labor and claim you did it. That's illegal, as it should be. Go ahead and LICENSE their song, with proper credits, put YOUR arrangement on it, whatever you want. But don't go around telling the world you created something that somebody else created.

Another poster mentioned Hendrix doing "All Along the Watchtower". Check that record and you'll see Bob Dylan's name under it, credited properly. Hendrix never tried to claim "I wrote that".

Were these old blues songs copyrighted? Before 1978, I understand that would be required for protection. If so, I would think this a simple civil matter.

Whatever the monetary settlement, it's hard to deny that bands like Zeppelin introduced earlier Blues to millions upon millions of new fans. They brought new light to what was at the time, a dying art form. I hold no ill will for that kind of result.

Actually John Mayall and Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck et al were already doing that. By the time LZ began Cream was already disbanding, so your chronology's a bit shaky. For that matter Jimmy Page was doing it before LZ too.

Copyrights vary with each tune of course but in the case of Jake Holmes posted earlier I believe his was released in 1967. And he was clearly ripped off. Moby Grape was another contemporary band ripped off.

I believe Willie Dixon got a settlement -- or his record company did.

Oh good lord, you can be such a pain in the ass. I was referring to all those guys from that era that were inspired by old Blues. I'm well aware of the chronology.

Whatever, they worked in out in court or they didn't. I dig the music.

Hey, I have a memory, so sue me. Fact is, LZ appeared in 1969. By then the blues "rediscovery" was well under way. I was there, I remember what came when.

You can't help yourself, I get it.

Right --- I'm a musician. And a YUGE Cream freak.

 

[Pogo]

I'm afraid that's nowhere near a legal argument on an intellectual property case.

The fact remains --- as it should --- you just can't grab somebody else's labor and claim you did it. That's illegal, as it should be. Go ahead and LICENSE their song, with proper credits, put YOUR arrangement on it, whatever you want. But don't go around telling the world you created something that somebody else created.

Another poster mentioned Hendrix doing "All Along the Watchtower". Check that record and you'll see Bob Dylan's name under it, credited properly. Hendrix never tried to claim "I wrote that".

Were these old blues songs copyrighted? Before 1978, I understand that would be required for protection. If so, I would think this a simple civil matter.

Whatever the monetary settlement, it's hard to deny that bands like Zeppelin introduced earlier Blues to millions upon millions of new fans. They brought new light to what was at the time, a dying art form. I hold no ill will for that kind of result.

Actually John Mayall and Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck et al were already doing that. By the time LZ began Cream was already disbanding, so your chronology's a bit shaky. For that matter Jimmy Page was doing it before LZ too.

Copyrights vary with each tune of course but in the case of Jake Holmes posted earlier I believe his was released in 1967. And he was clearly ripped off. Moby Grape was another contemporary band ripped off.

I believe Willie Dixon got a settlement -- or his record company did.

Oh good lord, you can be such a pain in the ass. I was referring to all those guys from that era that were inspired by old Blues. I'm well aware of the chronology.

Whatever, they worked in out in court or they didn't. I dig the music.

Hey, I have a memory, so sue me. Fact is, LZ appeared in 1969. By then the blues "rediscovery" was well under way. I was there, I remember what came when.

He's right. LZ has plenty of original songs. So there!

So did Anne Bredon.
And Jake Holmes.
And Bert Jansch.
Etc etc etc

 

[ChrisL]

I've never heard of any of those people (that I'm aware of). LZ original songs were/are GOOD, is probably the difference there.

 

[Pogo]

I've never heard of any of those people (that I'm aware of). LZ original songs were/are GOOD, is probably the difference there.

Jimmy Plagiarist and Robber Plant heard of them though. They knew exactly where they came from.

 

[ChrisL]

I've never heard of any of those people (that I'm aware of). LZ original songs were/are GOOD, is probably the difference there.

Jimmy Plagiarist and Robber Plant heard of them though. They knew exactly where they came from.

Well, you see? If not for LZ, I would have never heard of those songs.

 

[Pogo]

There is 'plagiarism" and there is "borrowing" and there is "riffing on an idea".
Here's a tune from 1957 .....

​

That John Lennon took and reworked into this:

​

Completely different music, completely different lyric. All that remains is the concept of strolling past a lover's house (today: stalking) and finding no one there. That's how you write a song without ripping somebody else off.

A few years later though, Lennon got sued for ripping off Chuck Berry's line "here come old flat-top" (Berry's line: "here come a flat top he was movin' up with me") which is prolly a bit of a stretch but Lennon settled with an agreement to record some Berry material.

Then there was John Fogerty. He got sued for ripping off HIMSELF.
And he won. Took it all the way to the Supreme Court.

Lotta sharks in the music bidness.

 

[ChrisL]

You do have a point though that they should have asked permission first, but they did a great job with those songs.

 

[Comrade Johnson]

I think that LZ is the greatest rock band of all times and nations. And I don't think that they stole it from anybody