Let’s Arm Teachers. Yeah, That’s a Peachy Idea (Eye Roll)

[PredFan]

There was a coach who died shielding kids with his unarmed body. Had he had a gun, it would have been much different.

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I get a charge out of people who live surreptitiously through others.

You are using the wrong word here. Try again.

She's confused but I like the quote. I'll use it as a funny joke.

 

[PredFan]

How utterly stupid. Do you actually believe that there was no armed security there?

 

[Windparadox]

FORCE them? Who's talking about FORCING anything?

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I see the word "force" has triggered you. True enough, not by FORCE of law, to be exact. I didn't mean to upset you. However, considering trump is doubling down on his rhetoric, Trump doubles down on arming teachers: 'The bad guys love gun-free zones' he is trying to force the issue. Poor deluded little man is having a temper tantrum.
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[ShaklesOfBigGov]

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Whenever a mass shooting occurs, the first words out of the mouths of conservatives is, “We need more guns in the hands of civilians.” Or something like it.

It’s that unreasonable conservative mind-set, that forces them to believe the fairy tale that untrained civilians know instinctively, where the gunfire is located, immediately recognize the individual(s) doing the shooting, and have the steel nerves and iron will to confront and kill the shooter(s), without hesitation or concern for their own safety.

What so often proves this unreasonable mind-set of the conservatives to be a total fantasy is the choice by trained law enforcement officers to avoid exacerbating an already uncontrolled situation. This can be seen no better than in the shooting incident last week at Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

In addition to the school resource officer from the Broward County Sheriff’s office Scot Peterson, Coral Springs police officers arriving at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, found three additional Broward County Sheriff’s Deputies who had not yet entered the building.

Sadly, these four men apparently remained outside while directing Coral Springs police officers to the building where the shooting took place, even as the Coral Springs officers entered, joined by two newly arrived Broward County Deputies.

It is likely there will be a whitewash of this incident as “Sources cautioned that tapes are currently being reviewed and official accounts could ultimately differ from recollections of officers on the scene.” Gotta CYA to protect the county and themselves from the inevitable lawsuits.

But the coming whitewash aside, this again proves that “Rambo” instinct, which most conservatives are certain they posses, is a fairy tale they use to fool themselves.

As it turns out, Deputy Peterson was eligible for retirement. So one must wonder if that didn’t enter into his decision to remain outside. He had, after all, survived his career in law enforcement long enough to retire from the Sheriff’s Department. Like Peterson, the three other deputies could very well have had second thoughts, making them unsure of the results were they to rush headlong into the unknown.

Conservatives who are certain they have that “Rambo” instinct, like to think they are courageous hero-types and are capable of single-handedly saving the day. But, there is a good reason law enforcement agencies have SWAT teams. The officers who are members of these teams train and retrain regularly. They wear protective gear, have available to them fully automatic weapons, are experts in their use, and in the use of other military-style equipment.

The four experienced officers who were armed with only pistols chose caution and did not rush into the unknown situation. But, conservatives expect teachers armed only with pistols and minimal training to jump in and face killers firing their AR-15s at anything that moves.

It’s unfortunate these conservatives calling for the arming of teachers are so certain of this “Rambo” instinct. If it does exist, it does so only in a tiny, tiny percentage of regular citizens (most of whom must have death wishes).

As people of reason know, these conservatives are nothing more than “keyboard warriors”. They are brave beyond all else, but only when safely typing their attacks, anonymously. The truth is, they are too old, or too fat, or are out of shape, or too slow and crippled-up, or would freeze in fear, or any combination there of, to truly be the heroes they’ve convinced themselves they would be. They are the “Monday morning quarterbacks” of mass shooting response, and all of them would hesitate or totally freeze when called upon to weigh the threat of their own death against defending strangers. Just as the four Broward County Deputies did. No Rambos there.

As always, thoughtful comments are welcome. Unfortunately, in the conservatives' responses to this thread we can expect only their typical nonsense, denial, alternate facts, and off-topic silliness. (e.g. non-sequiturs, ratings, transference, memes, etc.), to which any reply is a waste of time.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/coward-sheriffs-deputy-one-four-12079659







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So why do you assume we want people to have guns with no training?

It’s also assumed that all of those teachers and school personnel who respect the position that they are not allowed to carry, haven’t gone to receive training on their own time.

 

[PredFan]

FORCE them? Who's talking about FORCING anything?

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I see the word "force" has triggered you. True enough, not by FORCE of law, to be exact. I didn't mean to upset you. However, considering trump is doubling down on his rhetoric, Trump doubles down on arming teachers: 'The bad guys love gun-free zones' he is trying to force the issue. Poor deluded little man is having a temper tantrum.
`

You employ smoke screens, moving the goalposts, and petty insults to hide the fact that your ideas and posts are stupid and easily destroyed, the problem is that you just suck at that too.​

 

[PredFan]

I made this point earlier in this thread but obviously, no one read it: Arm select teachers and administrators, train them, and have a real plan of action in the case of an active shooter. If the kids know about it, it will end school shootings right there, before they even start. No teacher, no administrator, will ever have to draw their weapon. these shooters are NOT looking for a gunfight, they are looking for mass casualties. If they are pinned down in a gunfight, it ruins their plans. As proof let me point out how few times the shooters have gunfights with the police. Many take their own lives and this Cruz kid tried to escape and almost succeeded.

 

[mikegriffith1]

No schools are currently prevented by the federal government from employing armed guards. If they wanted teachers armed they could have had them by now - and in fact a few do.

Most teachers and principals are liberal Democrats. Let me know how many of them are willing to allow, even on a strictly voluntary basis, teachers to be armed at school. You guys are the ones who have given us these deadly, nonsensical "gun free zones," and now you wanna blame guns and the NRA and avoid taking responsibility for teachers being defenseless in shooting after shooting.

Of course if you want a federally mandated, federally funded school security personnel program implemented - at huge expense - give up your precious little tax cut to pay for it.

"Huge expense"?! How about just allowing teachers who are willing and who are already gun certified to carry a gun at school? That would cost NOTHING.

Just how much do you think a gun-safety course costs? A standard handgun or rifle safety course will run you between $100 and $250. You can do the training in six to eight hours. It's not rocket science.

And why would the federal government have to fund any of this? States and counties should easily be able to handle the minimal expense that would be involved.

 

[Windparadox]

"Huge expense"?! How about just allowing teachers who are willing and who are already gun certified to carry a gun at school? That would cost NOTHING. Just how much do you think a gun-safety course costs? A standard handgun or rifle safety course will run you between $100 and $250. You can do the training in six to eight hours. It's not rocket science. And why would the federal government have to fund any of this? States and counties should easily be able to handle the minimal expense that would be involved.

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This one is way out of the loop. Both the feds and the states have been cutting back on shared revenue to schools for years now. School districts can just barely afford books much less the cost of implementing this stupid and insane idea of trumps.
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[ShaklesOfBigGov]

No schools are currently prevented by the federal government from employing armed guards. If they wanted teachers armed they could have had them by now - and in fact a few do.

Of course if you want a federally mandated, federally funded school security personnel program implemented - at huge expense -

give up your precious little tax cut to pay for it.

All that needs to be done is to cut back welfare spending as the economy grows and more people have opportunities to get back to work. Also, cut funding to those states which protect illegals and clearly choose NOT to cooperate with ICE and Federal Immigration Laws. Why have an open border that allows more illegals to come in, violence to flow, human trafficking to spread, all while paying welfare to those who have chosen not to work? The left wants to bring in and support more people who can’t care for themselves, while criticizing republicans about spending practices. Progressives are the very last ones that have a grip on, and should be lecturing the right, with regard to spending.

Nonsense.

If you really want to save money to arm teachers, cut wasteful, unnecessary military spending; it’s military spending that creates the deficits conservatives love so much.

What unnecessary military spending? You wish now to diss VA ? Wow you truly have no shame

I agree with Clayton, we spend too much on the military. We should close foreign bases and bring them home. Our military should be defensive focused and a lot smaller.

The difference is I want to do the same with domestic spending and Clayton wants to spend the military savings on redistributing more of money

I believe we can provide military support overseas through treaties like NATO, and utilize some foreign bases where it supports our allies. Do we need to occupy so many military bases on foreign soil? Probably not, where our allies there have a strong military presence of their own. Now should their be a balance in funding, among those foreign governments seeking involvement though organizations like NATO or the UN? Absolutely. Now I agree with you, Clayton would want our nation utilize those savings towards wealth redistribution.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

So the gun nuts want the federal government to force teachers to become law enforcement officers?

Why is that hilarious?

If you can prove that you have been trained with the ability to provide a license to carry, it’s no more ridiculous than those who receive CPR and medical training who aren’t licensed paramedics trying to make “first on scene” life saving decisions.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

The dumb left wingers never miss a chance to be despicable racist demagogues

Should we be surprised? It’s found among those who can’t offer anything intellectually constructive in a discussion.

 

[LeftofLeft]

If a teacher or administrator expresses interest in carrying a firearm into school, then I believe it is worth exploring. Have them undergo training, background checks, and monitoring. Further, need to enhance the locks, doors, and monitoring systems in a manner that does not compromise fire, safety, and operational flow of a school day - not an easy task.

Finally, we need to take down “gun free zone” signs. These are a joke and, at this point, an insult.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

C-PAC had armed security protection. Nice try.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Let's think about his.....hmmmm...

Just maybe?

Just maybe?

Um, no, not at all.

• Jesus was a man. Men have limited lifespans.
• According to Jesus, Jesus' life had to be sacrificed to save man's soul. If he'd had a gun, he wouldn't have used it to save his life. The ought century had ranged weapons and if Jesus and his disciples were of a mind to resist the Romans, they would have secured them and done so.
• The state crucified Jesus and, gun or no gun, as it did with Spartacus some 50 years later, the state was going to use whatever resources it needed to to apprehend him and see him dead.

Jesus also CHOSE to allow Himself to be killed. He certainly didn't have to, and wouldn't have needed any weapon to stop it.

Given Jesus' own attestations about himself and his purpose, I don't know that he had a choice. Bees, for example, exist as an element in the "grand design" for getting plants pollinated. They can no more choose to play that role than could Jesus choose his role in the "grand design" for saving man's souls.

Of course He had a choice. How could God give humans free will to fulfill or reject His purpose for us if He Himself does not have free will as well?

And what possible value could His sacrifice have had if it had not been voluntary?

"As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. ... Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father" (John 10:15-17-18).

 

[Cecilie1200]

May not be the type of community we want, but I also don't want to live in a community where an individual can kill 17 kids.

yes--so we should try to make it very hard for people to get ''tools'' designed to kill ---very fast and very efficiently
..it's much better to be pro-active--not reactive
if there had been the sensible law that you need to be 21 to buy guns, it would've been much harder for the Columbine shooters and this guy
..and the sensible law of no gifting/no giving your weapon

a key aspect is proliferation! if sensible--but NOT infringing--laws were in place, the proliferation of guns would be a lot less if we started decades ago

no--it can't be effective over night or a year--but over decades--yes

What products did Timothy mcveigh use?

hahaha--I've blasted that argument to hell, before!!
1. these shooters usually want the gratification of directly killing
--they are NOT using bombs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are they?????!! NOT using bombs--understand??!!!???
2....99.999% of school shootings/killings have been with firearms--because it is much easier!!
3. bombs have NOT been used in over 99% of ALL murders in the US !!
4.we want to make it harder for people to kill--obviously
it was much more difficult for TM to build his bomb than just getting a rifle and pulling a trigger

McVeigh then added a dual-fuse ignition system accessible from the truck's front cab. He drilled two holes in the cab of the truck under the seat, while two holes were also drilled in the body of the truck. One green cannon fuse was run through each hole into the cab.

etc etc
Oklahoma City bombing - Wikipedia
takes time gathering the materials/etc
--he would have to park the truck fairly close to the building to get sure kills--basic SOP security is no trucks parked where they are not supposed to be/lone packages--back packs removed and/or school evacuated

I've refuted the bomb crap before--stop with the bomb crap
they are NOT using bombs--when they do -we will cross that bridge

it's like a doctor saying ''well, you have cancer, but why should we operate on it because you could die by a lightning strike'' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That McVeigh used a bomb instead of a gun if not an argument troll, it is a fact.

the fact is that bombs are NOT used in 99% of murders or mass shootings
the Columbine bombs did not even go off
why are people even bringing up bombs as a problem in mass shootings [shootings !! ]hahahah
what's the bomb argument--again?? why are people bringing it up?? it's irrelevant

I think the argument is that the tools are not the problem. The problem is violent individuals who want to create bloodshed, and who will simply find other tools if their first choice is not available.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Not to mention most teachers don't want to carry about guns They are fucking teachers, not soldiers or bodyguards. Wtf ...

However, if a teacher goes through the process to demonstrate that s/he is a responsible gun owner, I don't know that it would be so bad to allow them to carry on-site.

They don't? ALL of them? Have you asked?

Why don't you go ask Aaron Feis, Chris Hixon, Victoria Soto, Dawn Hochsprung, Mary Sherlach . . . oh, wait, you can't, because all these teachers died trying to protect their students.

 

[NYcarbineer]

C-PAC had armed security protection. Nice try.

Gun free zones do no prohibit armed security.

 

[Cecilie1200]

FORCE them? Who's talking about FORCING anything?

`
I see the word "force" has triggered you. True enough, not by FORCE of law, to be exact. I didn't mean to upset you. However, considering trump is doubling down on his rhetoric, Trump doubles down on arming teachers: 'The bad guys love gun-free zones' he is trying to force the issue. Poor deluded little man is having a temper tantrum.
`

*snore* Oh, I'm sorry. Your deflection bored me to sleep for a moment.

I'm not a leftist snowflake, dear. Triggering is not an issue, and perhaps you can stop projecting and spewing kneejerk Trump hatred long enough to recognize when your poor word choices are being questioned.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Let's think about his.....hmmmm...

Just maybe?

Jesus was the world's first known "hippie" and in his case, he would have not picked up a gun, but rather would have given the Pharisees and Romans the peace symbol and still ended up nailed up to a couple planks of wood.

 

[Windparadox]

*snore* Oh, I'm sorry. Your deflection bored me to sleep for a moment.I'm not a leftist snowflake, dear. Triggering is not an issue, and perhaps you can stop projecting and spewing kneejerk Trump hatred long enough to recognize when your poor word choices are being questioned.

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I understand. Please try not to worry about it.