CDZ Let's Take Over Syria!

[oldsoul]

LOL yea right.
When are people going to learn?
You cant stabilize the ME.

A moderate stabilization based upon living not dying....

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political philosophy and complete way of life.
Go ahead and do it.
Maybe THIS TIME another underground revolution wont be brewing.
Fixing the ME relies in THEIR hands.

And that is what we are discussing. Giving them the means to do it themselves, with our help, as needed. This is what we did in Japan, and Germany, and we can do it again. This time we will have to lay the groundwork for it ourselves, that is the only difference.

It almost seems as though you want the ME to stay unstable. Why is it that you think that (if, indeed, you do)?

Germans and Asians are different from Islamic Arabs. History is on my side, unfortunately.
Its not about me wanting them stabilized or de-stabilized. Islam is its own system and handles its own problems.
It almost seems as though you want another IS to pop up in due time

What are you talking about? I am advocating educating them on other options, so they CAN handle it themselves.

I do not want anymore ISIS like groups to pop up, however, I am not stupid enough to beleive that they will not, so we must have a plan to deal with them.

 

[TNHarley]

LOL yea right.
When are people going to learn?
You cant stabilize the ME.

A moderate stabilization based upon living not dying....

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political philosophy and complete way of life.
Go ahead and do it.
Maybe THIS TIME another underground revolution wont be brewing.
Fixing the ME relies in THEIR hands.

And that is what we are discussing. Giving them the means to do it themselves, with our help, as needed. This is what we did in Japan, and Germany, and we can do it again. This time we will have to lay the groundwork for it ourselves, that is the only difference.

It almost seems as though you want the ME to stay unstable. Why is it that you think that (if, indeed, you do)?

Germans and Asians are different from Islamic Arabs. History is on my side, unfortunately.
Its not about me wanting them stabilized or de-stabilized. Islam is its own system and handles its own problems.
It almost seems as though you want another IS to pop up in due time

What are you talking about? I am advocating educating them on other options, so they CAN handle it themselves.

I do not want anymore ISIS like groups to pop up, however, I am not stupid enough to beleive that they will not, so we must have a plan to deal with them.

So you want to keep soldiers in the ME indefinitely?
You want to deny multiple times in history and think they want us to teach them ANYTHING? Again, you don't understand islam at all. They do what they think is right. It is their religion, not some faint mentality dwelled on by a minority.
How would you feel if Islam came here and FORCED us to learn things they thought were relevant? They told us which side we lived on? They propped up leaders for us to listen to and told us what to do?

 

[oldsoul]

LOL yea right.
When are people going to learn?
You cant stabilize the ME.

A moderate stabilization based upon living not dying....

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political philosophy and complete way of life.
Go ahead and do it.
Maybe THIS TIME another underground revolution wont be brewing.
Fixing the ME relies in THEIR hands.

And that is what we are discussing. Giving them the means to do it themselves, with our help, as needed. This is what we did in Japan, and Germany, and we can do it again. This time we will have to lay the groundwork for it ourselves, that is the only difference.

It almost seems as though you want the ME to stay unstable. Why is it that you think that (if, indeed, you do)?

As a matter of fact, this is more of that "American exceptionalism" from last week. I believe you rated my post a "winner". Did your mind change that fast, or is stabilizing countries an exception?[/QUOTE/]
I seem to be having trouble finding what it is you are refering to. I wish to remind myself of the discussion in question.

 

[TNHarley]

LOL yea right.
When are people going to learn?
You cant stabilize the ME.

A moderate stabilization based upon living not dying....

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political philosophy and complete way of life.
Go ahead and do it.
Maybe THIS TIME another underground revolution wont be brewing.
Fixing the ME relies in THEIR hands.

And that is what we are discussing. Giving them the means to do it themselves, with our help, as needed. This is what we did in Japan, and Germany, and we can do it again. This time we will have to lay the groundwork for it ourselves, that is the only difference.

It almost seems as though you want the ME to stay unstable. Why is it that you think that (if, indeed, you do)?

As a matter of fact, this is more of that "American exceptionalism" from last week. I believe you rated my post a "winner". Did your mind change that fast, or is stabilizing countries an exception?[/QUOTE/]
I seem to be having trouble finding what it is you are refering to. I wish to remind myself of the discussion in question.

CDZ - American Exceptionalism

 

[oldsoul]

A moderate stabilization based upon living not dying....

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political philosophy and complete way of life.
Go ahead and do it.
Maybe THIS TIME another underground revolution wont be brewing.
Fixing the ME relies in THEIR hands.

And that is what we are discussing. Giving them the means to do it themselves, with our help, as needed. This is what we did in Japan, and Germany, and we can do it again. This time we will have to lay the groundwork for it ourselves, that is the only difference.

It almost seems as though you want the ME to stay unstable. Why is it that you think that (if, indeed, you do)?

Germans and Asians are different from Islamic Arabs. History is on my side, unfortunately.
Its not about me wanting them stabilized or de-stabilized. Islam is its own system and handles its own problems.
It almost seems as though you want another IS to pop up in due time

What are you talking about? I am advocating educating them on other options, so they CAN handle it themselves.

I do not want anymore ISIS like groups to pop up, however, I am not stupid enough to beleive that they will not, so we must have a plan to deal with them.

So you want to keep soldiers in the ME indefinitely?
You want to deny multiple times in history and think they want us to teach them ANYTHING? Again, you don't understand islam at all. They do what they think is right. It is their religion, not some faint mentality dwelled on by a minority.
How would you feel if Islam came here and FORCED us to learn things they thought were relevant? They told us which side we lived on? They propped up leaders for us to listen to and told us what to do?

If they had other options that we where uneducated on I would not have a problem with them assiting us. I also, would have no problem with them assisting us militarily, if we should need it. What are you getting at? Are you suggesting we should pull out and just let them do as they like?

 

[oldsoul]

A moderate stabilization based upon living not dying....

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political philosophy and complete way of life.
Go ahead and do it.
Maybe THIS TIME another underground revolution wont be brewing.
Fixing the ME relies in THEIR hands.

And that is what we are discussing. Giving them the means to do it themselves, with our help, as needed. This is what we did in Japan, and Germany, and we can do it again. This time we will have to lay the groundwork for it ourselves, that is the only difference.

It almost seems as though you want the ME to stay unstable. Why is it that you think that (if, indeed, you do)?

As a matter of fact, this is more of that "American exceptionalism" from last week. I believe you rated my post a "winner". Did your mind change that fast, or is stabilizing countries an exception?[/QUOTE/]
I seem to be having trouble finding what it is you are refering to. I wish to remind myself of the discussion in question.

CDZ - American Exceptionalism

I fail to see the contradiction. In that post you where talking about us getting less wealth so others could be less poor. How does that have anything to do with the current topic?

 

[TNHarley]

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political philosophy and complete way of life.
Go ahead and do it.
Maybe THIS TIME another underground revolution wont be brewing.
Fixing the ME relies in THEIR hands.

And that is what we are discussing. Giving them the means to do it themselves, with our help, as needed. This is what we did in Japan, and Germany, and we can do it again. This time we will have to lay the groundwork for it ourselves, that is the only difference.

It almost seems as though you want the ME to stay unstable. Why is it that you think that (if, indeed, you do)?

Germans and Asians are different from Islamic Arabs. History is on my side, unfortunately.
Its not about me wanting them stabilized or de-stabilized. Islam is its own system and handles its own problems.
It almost seems as though you want another IS to pop up in due time

What are you talking about? I am advocating educating them on other options, so they CAN handle it themselves.

I do not want anymore ISIS like groups to pop up, however, I am not stupid enough to beleive that they will not, so we must have a plan to deal with them.

So you want to keep soldiers in the ME indefinitely?
You want to deny multiple times in history and think they want us to teach them ANYTHING? Again, you don't understand islam at all. They do what they think is right. It is their religion, not some faint mentality dwelled on by a minority.
How would you feel if Islam came here and FORCED us to learn things they thought were relevant? They told us which side we lived on? They propped up leaders for us to listen to and told us what to do?

If they had other options that we where uneducated on I would not have a problem with them assiting us. I also, would have no problem with them assisting us militarily, if we should need it. What are you getting at? Are you suggesting we should pull out and just let them do as they like?

Yes. We have failed consistently and miserably for DECADES.
Every time we intervene in the ME it goes to shit.
Hell, the only reason we started is because of greed. Look at Africa. Why haven't we invaded them? There are millions of slaves there. Constant death and disease. Corruption etc
We have no business over there just like they have no business trying to tell us how to live our life. Their lives suck, but to them, they are doing what they are supposed to do.
Why do you think you can tell them how to live their lives better than them?

 

[TNHarley]

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political philosophy and complete way of life.
Go ahead and do it.
Maybe THIS TIME another underground revolution wont be brewing.
Fixing the ME relies in THEIR hands.

And that is what we are discussing. Giving them the means to do it themselves, with our help, as needed. This is what we did in Japan, and Germany, and we can do it again. This time we will have to lay the groundwork for it ourselves, that is the only difference.

It almost seems as though you want the ME to stay unstable. Why is it that you think that (if, indeed, you do)?

As a matter of fact, this is more of that "American exceptionalism" from last week. I believe you rated my post a "winner". Did your mind change that fast, or is stabilizing countries an exception?[/QUOTE/]
I seem to be having trouble finding what it is you are refering to. I wish to remind myself of the discussion in question.

CDZ - American Exceptionalism

I fail to see the contradiction. In that post you where talking about us getting less wealth so others could be less poor. How does that have anything to do with the current topic?

You think us taking over half a continent for generations would be free? You think us trying to boost them up in the world, at our expense, isn't the same?

 

[ChrisL]

And Iraq too. Let's merge them into one country, Syraq.

A silly fantasy, of course. Just food for thought. The only way to make such an idea work is to have China, Russia, the EU and the US on the same page. The we could run it like Berlin after WWII, with each entity in control of its own sector. Or like Japan, except each entity would have control for ten year periods.

I would guess this project would take about two centuries. The goal is to create a stable, economically successful state in the midst of the cesspool that is the Middle East. A haven for all those people in the region who are crushed under religious fanaticism and ruthless dictatorship. To consolidate the talents of the region and accelerated modernization.

Why? Because the Middle East is too much damn trouble. Ninth Century mentalities are tolerable only so long as they stay within their borders and don't bother anyone. The only sure-fire cure for terrorism is a thriving middle-class. Something which provides disaffected youth with an alternative to religious fanaticism. We cannot trust any of the governments of the Middle East to achieve this for their young people. These countries are in desperate need of training wheels.

"The goal is to create a stable, economically successful state in the midst of the cesspool that is the Middle East. A haven for all those people in the region who are crushed under religious fanaticism and ruthless dictatorship. To consolidate the talents of the region and accelerated modernization."

Sounds like Israel.

 

[Syriusly]

And Iraq too. Let's merge them into one country, Syraq.

A silly fantasy, of course. Just food for thought. The only way to make such an idea work is to have China, Russia, the EU and the US on the same page. The we could run it like Berlin after WWII, with each entity in control of its own sector. Or like Japan, except each entity would have control for ten year periods.

I would guess this project would take about two centuries. The goal is to create a stable, economically successful state in the midst of the cesspool that is the Middle East. A haven for all those people in the region who are crushed under religious fanaticism and ruthless dictatorship. To consolidate the talents of the region and accelerated modernization.

Why? Because the Middle East is too much damn trouble. Ninth Century mentalities are tolerable only so long as they stay within their borders and don't bother anyone. The only sure-fire cure for terrorism is a thriving middle-class. Something which provides disaffected youth with an alternative to religious fanaticism. We cannot trust any of the governments of the Middle East to achieve this for their young people. These countries are in desperate need of training wheels.

How many American lives are you willing to lose to accomplish this?
How much more in taxes are you willing to pay to do this?

 

[wrathbone]

First off, America doesn't have to pay a dime.....they pay and we expedite the military initiative.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

And Iraq too. Let's merge them into one country, Syraq.

A silly fantasy, of course. Just food for thought. The only way to make such an idea work is to have China, Russia, the EU and the US on the same page. The we could run it like Berlin after WWII, with each entity in control of its own sector. Or like Japan, except each entity would have control for ten year periods.

I would guess this project would take about two centuries. The goal is to create a stable, economically successful state in the midst of the cesspool that is the Middle East. A haven for all those people in the region who are crushed under religious fanaticism and ruthless dictatorship. To consolidate the talents of the region and accelerated modernization.

Why? Because the Middle East is too much damn trouble. Ninth Century mentalities are tolerable only so long as they stay within their borders and don't bother anyone. The only sure-fire cure for terrorism is a thriving middle-class. Something which provides disaffected youth with an alternative to religious fanaticism. We cannot trust any of the governments of the Middle East to achieve this for their young people. These countries are in desperate need of training wheels.

Maybe The West should just drop 10 Atomic Bombs on ENTIRE Middle East....then this solves ALL problems in entire Middle East, as the region would cease to exist.

I wonder how it feels to talk about "the west" (AKA the U.S.) from a weak, pussified place such as Europe. You want 10 atomic bombs dropped on the middle east? What offer will you make us in exchange for that happening?

Our Russian friends could do it, Russia is Europa's friend, Washington DC isn't.

Russia, yeah, home of Gulages, forced labor camps, Tzars, Rasputin, Stalinism, Leninism, and good old fashioned communism. Yeah, great friends. I wish to never be invited to your parties.

Exactly WHAT CENTURY are you stuck in darling?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

And Iraq too. Let's merge them into one country, Syraq.

A silly fantasy, of course. Just food for thought. The only way to make such an idea work is to have China, Russia, the EU and the US on the same page. The we could run it like Berlin after WWII, with each entity in control of its own sector. Or like Japan, except each entity would have control for ten year periods.

I would guess this project would take about two centuries. The goal is to create a stable, economically successful state in the midst of the cesspool that is the Middle East. A haven for all those people in the region who are crushed under religious fanaticism and ruthless dictatorship. To consolidate the talents of the region and accelerated modernization.

Why? Because the Middle East is too much damn trouble. Ninth Century mentalities are tolerable only so long as they stay within their borders and don't bother anyone. The only sure-fire cure for terrorism is a thriving middle-class. Something which provides disaffected youth with an alternative to religious fanaticism. We cannot trust any of the governments of the Middle East to achieve this for their young people. These countries are in desperate need of training wheels.

Maybe The West should just drop 10 Atomic Bombs on ENTIRE Middle East....then this solves ALL problems in entire Middle East, as the region would cease to exist.

Why is it that your answer to so many problems is "nuke 'em". Do you not recall the devastation of the only two A-bombs ever used? Are you unfamiliar with the term fall-out? Do you not understand that the fall-out from such an attack would, likely, change the entire world? This is in addition to the fact that there are allies in the area you are proposing to nuke. What of them? Are you some kind of anti-semite? Do you hate the Egyptians too? What about India? Have you even bothered to consider these things before you go shooting your mouth off?

 

[wrathbone]

And Iraq too. Let's merge them into one country, Syraq.

A silly fantasy, of course. Just food for thought. The only way to make such an idea work is to have China, Russia, the EU and the US on the same page. The we could run it like Berlin after WWII, with each entity in control of its own sector. Or like Japan, except each entity would have control for ten year periods.

I would guess this project would take about two centuries. The goal is to create a stable, economically successful state in the midst of the cesspool that is the Middle East. A haven for all those people in the region who are crushed under religious fanaticism and ruthless dictatorship. To consolidate the talents of the region and accelerated modernization.

Why? Because the Middle East is too much damn trouble. Ninth Century mentalities are tolerable only so long as they stay within their borders and don't bother anyone. The only sure-fire cure for terrorism is a thriving middle-class. Something which provides disaffected youth with an alternative to religious fanaticism. We cannot trust any of the governments of the Middle East to achieve this for their young people. These countries are in desperate need of training wheels.

Maybe The West should just drop 10 Atomic Bombs on ENTIRE Middle East....then this solves ALL problems in entire Middle East, as the region would cease to exist.

I wonder how it feels to talk about "the west" (AKA the U.S.) from a weak, pussified place such as Europe. You want 10 atomic bombs dropped on the middle east? What offer will you make us in exchange for that happening?

Our Russian friends could do it, Russia is Europa's friend, Washington DC isn't.

Russia, yeah, home of Gulages, forced labor camps, Tzars, Rasputin, Stalinism, Leninism, and good old fashioned communism. Yeah, great friends. I wish to never be invited to your parties.

Exactly WHAT CENTURY are you stuck in darling?

21st century Loosie Goosie!...

 

[alpine]

Let's Take Over Syria!

One should take his hat off, and really think; if he really would want Syria...



This is Syria...............

 

[Tehon]

How about Japan and Germany after WWII? We took over these countries and managed them, because in the collective view of the world they were incapable of managing themselves. Now they're democracies. What was true for Germany and Japan is a thousand times truer for the countries of the Middle East. They cannot manage themselves, and their ineptitude is simple to destabilizing to be allowed to continue. Both Germany and Japan were much more advanced, industrial nations, though. That's why it would take so much longer in the ME. The alternative is to leave them to their own devices, which isn't working out too well right now.

The alternative is to leave them to their own devices, which isn't working out too well right now.

In what world have we left them to their own devices? Not realizing that we are and have been the destabilizing effect in that region creates the false dilemma that you are espousing. If we cooperated on energy resources instead of trying to control them we would probably not be entertaining this discussion which is centered around even more control.

 

[Disgruntled_American]

The only sure-fire cure for terrorism is a thriving middle-class. Something which provides disaffected youth with an alternative to religious fanaticism.

It has nothing to do with economic class and more to do with religious fanaticism which doesn't hold a monopoly on the poor. The most evil masterminds of terrorism are very educated people and well off financially.

 

[oldsoul]

And that is what we are discussing. Giving them the means to do it themselves, with our help, as needed. This is what we did in Japan, and Germany, and we can do it again. This time we will have to lay the groundwork for it ourselves, that is the only difference.

It almost seems as though you want the ME to stay unstable. Why is it that you think that (if, indeed, you do)?

Germans and Asians are different from Islamic Arabs. History is on my side, unfortunately.
Its not about me wanting them stabilized or de-stabilized. Islam is its own system and handles its own problems.
It almost seems as though you want another IS to pop up in due time

What are you talking about? I am advocating educating them on other options, so they CAN handle it themselves.

I do not want anymore ISIS like groups to pop up, however, I am not stupid enough to beleive that they will not, so we must have a plan to deal with them.

So you want to keep soldiers in the ME indefinitely?
You want to deny multiple times in history and think they want us to teach them ANYTHING? Again, you don't understand islam at all. They do what they think is right. It is their religion, not some faint mentality dwelled on by a minority.
How would you feel if Islam came here and FORCED us to learn things they thought were relevant? They told us which side we lived on? They propped up leaders for us to listen to and told us what to do?

If they had other options that we where uneducated on I would not have a problem with them assiting us. I also, would have no problem with them assisting us militarily, if we should need it. What are you getting at? Are you suggesting we should pull out and just let them do as they like?

Yes. We have failed consistently and miserably for DECADES.
Every time we intervene in the ME it goes to shit.
Hell, the only reason we started is because of greed. Look at Africa. Why haven't we invaded them? There are millions of slaves there. Constant death and disease. Corruption etc
We have no business over there just like they have no business trying to tell us how to live our life. Their lives suck, but to them, they are doing what they are supposed to do.
Why do you think you can tell them how to live their lives better than them?

I don't, I am advocating education on OPTIONS. Have I been unclear on this?

 

[oldsoul]

And that is what we are discussing. Giving them the means to do it themselves, with our help, as needed. This is what we did in Japan, and Germany, and we can do it again. This time we will have to lay the groundwork for it ourselves, that is the only difference.

It almost seems as though you want the ME to stay unstable. Why is it that you think that (if, indeed, you do)?

As a matter of fact, this is more of that "American exceptionalism" from last week. I believe you rated my post a "winner". Did your mind change that fast, or is stabilizing countries an exception?[/QUOTE/]
I seem to be having trouble finding what it is you are refering to. I wish to remind myself of the discussion in question.

CDZ - American Exceptionalism

I fail to see the contradiction. In that post you where talking about us getting less wealth so others could be less poor. How does that have anything to do with the current topic?

You think us taking over half a continent for generations would be free? You think us trying to boost them up in the world, at our expense, isn't the same?

Point one, initially, no. Just like with Japan and Germany, they where not free, initially, because we had to ensure security first.
Point two, Who said it would be at our expense? They have vast oil reserves, seems as though we could do a trade of sorts.

 

[TNHarley]

Germans and Asians are different from Islamic Arabs. History is on my side, unfortunately.
Its not about me wanting them stabilized or de-stabilized. Islam is its own system and handles its own problems.
It almost seems as though you want another IS to pop up in due time

What are you talking about? I am advocating educating them on other options, so they CAN handle it themselves.

I do not want anymore ISIS like groups to pop up, however, I am not stupid enough to beleive that they will not, so we must have a plan to deal with them.

So you want to keep soldiers in the ME indefinitely?
You want to deny multiple times in history and think they want us to teach them ANYTHING? Again, you don't understand islam at all. They do what they think is right. It is their religion, not some faint mentality dwelled on by a minority.
How would you feel if Islam came here and FORCED us to learn things they thought were relevant? They told us which side we lived on? They propped up leaders for us to listen to and told us what to do?

If they had other options that we where uneducated on I would not have a problem with them assiting us. I also, would have no problem with them assisting us militarily, if we should need it. What are you getting at? Are you suggesting we should pull out and just let them do as they like?

Yes. We have failed consistently and miserably for DECADES.
Every time we intervene in the ME it goes to shit.
Hell, the only reason we started is because of greed. Look at Africa. Why haven't we invaded them? There are millions of slaves there. Constant death and disease. Corruption etc
We have no business over there just like they have no business trying to tell us how to live our life. Their lives suck, but to them, they are doing what they are supposed to do.
Why do you think you can tell them how to live their lives better than them?

I don't, I am advocating education on OPTIONS. Have I been unclear on this?

They don't WANT options. Is islam that unclear?