Let's unpack some of the right wing's delusion and dishonesty. Is universal healthcare socialism?

[Rigby5]

Il... I'll wrap it up by saying universal healthcare is an inevitability. People like you are just in the way.

Expect many of us to stay in the way of universal healthcare both before and after it comes to be (if it does).

We used to all have universal heath care in the US before 1959.
All counties had a public hospital you could go to that treated you first, and then later decided if and what you could pay.

 

[BS Filter]

Yes, government healthcare is socialism.

But the Scandinavian countries are capitalist despite having the most expansive social safety nets in the world.

What's the corporate tax rate and personal income tax rate?

 

[g5000]

There are many possible fixes, but you get all the people in the same boat so a solution can be made, just by ending the 1959 IRS tax exemption for employer benefits like health insurance.

 

[Blues Man]

Something wrong with anyone who thinks we all shouldn’t have healthcare. Our current system is a super expensive mess.

there's also something wrong with the government forcing people to pay for things they don't need want and will never use

Like all the increased military spending?

yup.

but then again there really is no correlation between health care and the military.

Now if everyone was mandated to buy a rifle that would be a better comparison

We all need healthcare at some point.

but we don't all need the same health care.

I don't need drug counseling but I am forced to pay for it.

I don't need pediatric or obstetric health care because I don't have kids and I'm not a woman but I have to pay for it.

And if we have a universal healthcare system it is cheaper for all.

irrelevant

And I don't think that's true at all.

Our current system is by far the most expensive. That’s a well known fact,

tough too say when government health care costs are nearly impossible to track

 

[Brain357]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Markets don’t work in healthcare...

Yes. You mentioned that, once or twice.

That’s what’s wrong with the picture.

 

[dblack]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Markets don’t work in healthcare...

Yes. You mentioned that, once or twice.

That’s what’s wrong with the picture.

Yeah. Thing is, that kind of claim doesn't even make any sense to me. I think that's because I don't look at a free market an institution with specific goals, or an other means of evaluating whether it "works" or not. A free market is just people, freely collaborating, trading goods and services as they see fit. Saying free markets don't work is like saying "freedom doesn't work".

 

[Brain357]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Markets don’t work in healthcare...

Yes. You mentioned that, once or twice.

That’s what’s wrong with the picture.

Yeah. Thing is, that kind of claim doesn't even make any sense to me. I think that's because I don't look at a free market an institution with specific goals, or an other means to evaluate whether it "works" or not. A free market is just people, freely collaborating, trading goods and services as they see fit. Saying free markets don't work is like saying "freedom doesn't work".

And a sick person is not capable of making good buying decisions. Free markets do work, but not for healthcare.

 

[dblack]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Markets don’t work in healthcare...

Yes. You mentioned that, once or twice.

That’s what’s wrong with the picture.

Yeah. Thing is, that kind of claim doesn't even make any sense to me. I think that's because I don't look at a free market an institution with specific goals, or an other means to evaluate whether it "works" or not. A free market is just people, freely collaborating, trading goods and services as they see fit. Saying free markets don't work is like saying "freedom doesn't work".

And a sick person is not capable of making good buying decisions. Free markets do work, but not for healthcare.

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

 

[Brain357]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Markets don’t work in healthcare...

Yes. You mentioned that, once or twice.

That’s what’s wrong with the picture.

Yeah. Thing is, that kind of claim doesn't even make any sense to me. I think that's because I don't look at a free market an institution with specific goals, or an other means to evaluate whether it "works" or not. A free market is just people, freely collaborating, trading goods and services as they see fit. Saying free markets don't work is like saying "freedom doesn't work".

And a sick person is not capable of making good buying decisions. Free markets do work, but not for healthcare.

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

You don’t understand markets? It dictates prices. Healthcare costs just go up, markets have no downward pressure on healthcare. The guy in an ambulance can’t shop a cheaper price so they just charge more and more...

 

[dblack]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Markets don’t work in healthcare...

Yes. You mentioned that, once or twice.

That’s what’s wrong with the picture.

Yeah. Thing is, that kind of claim doesn't even make any sense to me. I think that's because I don't look at a free market an institution with specific goals, or an other means to evaluate whether it "works" or not. A free market is just people, freely collaborating, trading goods and services as they see fit. Saying free markets don't work is like saying "freedom doesn't work".

And a sick person is not capable of making good buying decisions. Free markets do work, but not for healthcare.

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

You don’t understand markets?

PIss off.

 

[Leo123]

You think millions of people lack appropriate medical care because that's what they want?

So you consider welfare and public health clinics inappropriate medical care?

 

[Leo123]

You don’t understand markets? It dictates prices. Healthcare costs just go up, markets have no downward pressure on healthcare. The guy in an ambulance can’t shop a cheaper price so they just charge more and more...

Government regulations in the healthcare market preclude adequate competition.

 

[Brain357]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Markets don’t work in healthcare...

Yes. You mentioned that, once or twice.

That’s what’s wrong with the picture.

Yeah. Thing is, that kind of claim doesn't even make any sense to me. I think that's because I don't look at a free market an institution with specific goals, or an other means to evaluate whether it "works" or not. A free market is just people, freely collaborating, trading goods and services as they see fit. Saying free markets don't work is like saying "freedom doesn't work".

And a sick person is not capable of making good buying decisions. Free markets do work, but not for healthcare.

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

You don’t understand markets?

PIss off.

Markets don’t work for healthcare. Once you figure that out you will see universal is only real option.

 

[dblack]

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

You don’t understand markets?

PIss off.

Markets don’t work for healthcare. Once you figure that out you will see universal is only real option.

Listen, asswipe, I ask you above for clarification on what you mean by "work for healthcare" and you declined to answer, choosing instead to insult me. If want to continue the conversation, start with answering those questions. Until you do, the statement you keep chanting, "Markets don't work for healthcare", has no meaning.

 

[Brain357]

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

You don’t understand markets?

PIss off.

Markets don’t work for healthcare. Once you figure that out you will see universal is only real option.

Listen, asswipe, I ask you above for clarification on what you mean by "work for healthcare" and you declined to answer, choosing instead to insult me. If want to continue the conversation, start with answering those questions. Until you do, the statement you keep chanting, "Markets don't work for healthcare", has no meaning.

I did explain it, you can’t read now?

 

[dblack]

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

You don’t understand markets?

PIss off.

Markets don’t work for healthcare. Once you figure that out you will see universal is only real option.

Listen, asswipe, I ask you above for clarification on what you mean by "work for healthcare" and you declined to answer, choosing instead to insult me. If want to continue the conversation, start with answering those questions. Until you do, the statement you keep chanting, "Markets don't work for healthcare", has no meaning.

I did explain it, you can’t read now?

More insults. I guess if you got nuthin else...

 

[Brain357]

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

You don’t understand markets?

PIss off.

Markets don’t work for healthcare. Once you figure that out you will see universal is only real option.

Listen, asswipe, I ask you above for clarification on what you mean by "work for healthcare" and you declined to answer, choosing instead to insult me. If want to continue the conversation, start with answering those questions. Until you do, the statement you keep chanting, "Markets don't work for healthcare", has no meaning.

Again:

Healthcare costs just go up, markets have no downward pressure on healthcare. The guy in an ambulance can’t shop a cheaper price so they just charge more and more...

 

[dblack]

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

You don’t understand markets?

PIss off.

Markets don’t work for healthcare. Once you figure that out you will see universal is only real option.

Listen, asswipe, I ask you above for clarification on what you mean by "work for healthcare" and you declined to answer, choosing instead to insult me. If want to continue the conversation, start with answering those questions. Until you do, the statement you keep chanting, "Markets don't work for healthcare", has no meaning.

Again:

Healthcare costs just go up, markets have no downward pressure on healthcare. The guy in an ambulance can’t shop a cheaper price so they just charge more and more...

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

 

[Brain357]

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

You don’t understand markets?

PIss off.

Markets don’t work for healthcare. Once you figure that out you will see universal is only real option.

Listen, asswipe, I ask you above for clarification on what you mean by "work for healthcare" and you declined to answer, choosing instead to insult me. If want to continue the conversation, start with answering those questions. Until you do, the statement you keep chanting, "Markets don't work for healthcare", has no meaning.

Again:

Healthcare costs just go up, markets have no downward pressure on healthcare. The guy in an ambulance can’t shop a cheaper price so they just charge more and more...

Again, I don't know what you mean by "work". Are you presuming that the purpose of a free market is to provide people with their needs? And if someone can't get what they need the market has failed?

You are really slow. If there is no downward pressure on pricing, then markets aren’t working. It’s more of a monopoly situation and prices just increase. Competition is important in markets. Again the guy in an ambulance isn’t shopping around. What don’t you get?

 

[Concerned American]

They donate to the charitable causes they believe in--that is a social safety net.

Private charity only covers multitudes of sins not simple poverty or we would not need Any social programs.

Social programs only encourage parasites. If you don't want to live in poverty, get off of your lazy backside and earn a better life. I bet your mommy still makes your bed for you.