Let's unpack some of the right wing's delusion and dishonesty. Is universal healthcare socialism?

[DGS49]

Sorry for weighing-in late, but this may not have been brought out previously.

"Universal Healthcare" is a concept with many definitions, some of which are "socialist" and some not.

Socialist Universal Healthcare (SUV) is a system where the GOVERNMENT OWNS the hospitals, clinics, nursing homes, PT facilities, etc., and GOVERNMENT EMPLOYS the providers of healthcare, all the way from the doctors to the people who sweep the floors. "We" in the U.S. have SUH on certain military bases, and in the Veterans Administration. Many doctors are in private practice and just work "for hire" for the VA, but you get the idea. SUH is a government-owned and operated system.

The reason why we ONLY have that for our military and veterans is because to have it universally would be BLATANTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL - that is to say, totally outside the powers of Congress to create or fund with taxpayer funds.

So what we have, and what we are stuck with, is a medical infrastructure which has been created and is owned by the private sector, and medical service providers who either work independently as independent contractors, or work for that medical infrastructure as private-sector employees.

Layered on top of that is another infrastructure which interfaces between the caregivers and those who are cared for: the Medical Insurance Industry. Fortunately or unfortunately, this two-layered medical care approach is more than satisfactory for the majority of people living within our borders, largely because the interface is "arranged" by the employers of the cared-for population and its cost is largely concealed because it is a benefit of employment.

In parallel with the Medical Insurance Industry is a government-sponsored system, comprised of Medicare and Medicaid, covering the poor and the elderly, which supplements or pays for the medical care (etc), making payments directly to the aforesaid private medical infrastructure.

But this global medical infrastructure provides poorly - or not at all - to the population that works in the private sector in "crappy jobs." The are part of the gig economy, or work for employers who do not need to provide subsidized medical insurance, thus leaving the employees to fend for themselves, medically speaking. They make too much money for Medicaid, but not enough to pay for private health insurance. And it is this crappy-job population that is at the heart of all of the discussion of socialized medicine, universal healthcare, etc. EVERYONE ELSE IS PROVIDED FOR ADEQUATELY OR BETTER.

So do we destroy the combination of private and public healthcare infrastructure that serves 90% of the population well or better, in order to accommodate the needs of the 10% who are figuratively left behind?

The Affordable Care Act sought to cover the unfortunate 10% ("...thirty million people without health insurance...") by making low-cost health insurance available to anyone who wanted it. But in addition to that noble goal, it (a) added bizarre mandatory coverages (e.g., birth control pills), (b) demanded that insurance companies charge the same rates for very sick people as they do for very healthy people, and (c) it sought to "punish" those who wanted to self-insure - all of which are unconstitutional and, if you will pardon my bluntness, stupid.

A scaled-back ACA is the solution, but politics/politicians are stupid, so that won't happen.

We only have "socialized medicine" in the military service and the VA. And that's not going to change unless it is authorized by a Constitutional Amendment, which is unlikely.

 

[danielpalos]

You'll often see conservatives argue that any social program is socialism and then in the next breath they'll say the Scandinavian countries are capitalist and not socialist when people point to how well they do over there. Well they have universal healthcare and very expansive social safety nets. Are those things socialism or not in your world view? You hypocrites can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the Scandinavian countries are socialist in your view or things like universal healthcare are not actually socialism. There are no Democrats arguing for the government to completely take over the private sector. They want universal healthcare and government funded universities like in the Scandinavian nations. At least get your shit straight and make a consistent argument.

YOU are the hypocrite
....you can't compare Scandinavian countries with the US for many reasons--end of story

Right wingers are worse. Y'all can't show a single first world economy that is based of pure and true, free market capitalism.

 

[jbrownson0831]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

 

[dblack]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

 

[Brain357]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Markets don’t work in healthcare...

 

[jbrownson0831]

A

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

And you blame that on Republicans when Democrats are just as guilty if not more so?

 

[dblack]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Markets don’t work in healthcare...

Yes. You mentioned that, once or twice.

 

[dblack]

A

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

And you blame that on Republicans when Democrats are just as guilty if not more so?

Democrats don't even pretend to stand up for limited government. Republicans have it on their calling card. It's a lie.

 

[jbrownson0831]

A

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

And you blame that on Republicans when Democrats are just as guilty if not more so?

Democrats don't even pretend to stand up for limited government. Republicans have it on their calling card. It's a lie.

Congress has to work to attack the high cost of healthcare and you see what the makeup is in the House and Senate right now.....so?

 

[dblack]

A

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

And you blame that on Republicans when Democrats are just as guilty if not more so?

Democrats don't even pretend to stand up for limited government. Republicans have it on their calling card. It's a lie.

Congress has to work to attack the high cost of healthcare and you see what the makeup is in the House and Senate right now.....so?

And? Not sure what your point is.

 

[jbrownson0831]

A

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

And you blame that on Republicans when Democrats are just as guilty if not more so?

Democrats don't even pretend to stand up for limited government. Republicans have it on their calling card. It's a lie.

Congress has to work to attack the high cost of healthcare and you see what the makeup is in the House and Senate right now.....so?

And? Not sure what your point is.

I don't understand your point.

 

[Anathema]

Il... I'll wrap it up by saying universal healthcare is an inevitability. People like you are just in the way.

Expect many of us to stay in the way of universal healthcare both before and after it comes to be (if it does).

 

[jbrownson0831]

Il... I'll wrap it up by saying universal healthcare is an inevitability. People like you are just in the way.

Expect many of us to stay in the way of universal healthcare both before and after it comes to be (if it does).

Yep those universal healthcare programs in Europe sure worked well with the pandemic.....only New York and New Jersey had higher mortality rates.....

 

[Rigby5]

Sorry for weighing-in late, but this may not have been brought out previously.

"Universal Healthcare" is a concept with many definitions, some of which are "socialist" and some not.

Socialist Universal Healthcare (SUV) is a system where the GOVERNMENT OWNS the hospitals, clinics, nursing homes, PT facilities, etc., and GOVERNMENT EMPLOYS the providers of healthcare, all the way from the doctors to the people who sweep the floors. "We" in the U.S. have SUH on certain military bases, and in the Veterans Administration. Many doctors are in private practice and just work "for hire" for the VA, but you get the idea. SUH is a government-owned and operated system.

The reason why we ONLY have that for our military and veterans is because to have it universally would be BLATANTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL - that is to say, totally outside the powers of Congress to create or fund with taxpayer funds.

So what we have, and what we are stuck with, is a medical infrastructure which has been created and is owned by the private sector, and medical service providers who either work independently as independent contractors, or work for that medical infrastructure as private-sector employees.

Layered on top of that is another infrastructure which interfaces between the caregivers and those who are cared for: the Medical Insurance Industry. Fortunately or unfortunately, this two-layered medical care approach is more than satisfactory for the majority of people living within our borders, largely because the interface is "arranged" by the employers of the cared-for population and its cost is largely concealed because it is a benefit of employment.

In parallel with the Medical Insurance Industry is a government-sponsored system, comprised of Medicare and Medicaid, covering the poor and the elderly, which supplements or pays for the medical care (etc), making payments directly to the aforesaid private medical infrastructure.

But this global medical infrastructure provides poorly - or not at all - to the population that works in the private sector in "crappy jobs." The are part of the gig economy, or work for employers who do not need to provide subsidized medical insurance, thus leaving the employees to fend for themselves, medically speaking. They make too much money for Medicaid, but not enough to pay for private health insurance. And it is this crappy-job population that is at the heart of all of the discussion of socialized medicine, universal healthcare, etc. EVERYONE ELSE IS PROVIDED FOR ADEQUATELY OR BETTER.

So do we destroy the combination of private and public healthcare infrastructure that serves 90% of the population well or better, in order to accommodate the needs of the 10% who are figuratively left behind?

The Affordable Care Act sought to cover the unfortunate 10% ("...thirty million people without health insurance...") by making low-cost health insurance available to anyone who wanted it. But in addition to that noble goal, it (a) added bizarre mandatory coverages (e.g., birth control pills), (b) demanded that insurance companies charge the same rates for very sick people as they do for very healthy people, and (c) it sought to "punish" those who wanted to self-insure - all of which are unconstitutional and, if you will pardon my bluntness, stupid.

A scaled-back ACA is the solution, but politics/politicians are stupid, so that won't happen.

We only have "socialized medicine" in the military service and the VA. And that's not going to change unless it is authorized by a Constitutional Amendment, which is unlikely.

Couple of minor mistakes.
Socialism does not at all require all means of production to be government owned, and certainly not centrally or federally.
For example, public schools are entirely socialist, but yet are locally owned and run, and allow private schools.
Same with health care.
If socialized, they would be local, and there would still be private doctors and hospitals as well as public ones.

The fix needed for health care is not a scaled back ACA, but simply repealing the 1959 employer tax exemption for employee benefits like health insurance. Employers should never have gotten involved in health care, and it cause the whole 3 or 4 party confusion, as well as the fact poor people never got any employer benefits tax relief, so it was incredibly regressive.

 

[Rigby5]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Yes, insurance companies are trying to monopolize health care by making it unaffordable unless you buy insurance.

 

[dblack]

The fix needed for health care is not a scaled back ACA, but simply repealing the 1959 employer tax exemption for employee benefits like health insurance. Employers should never have gotten involved in health care, and it cause the whole 3 or 4 party confusion, as well as the fact poor people never got any employer benefits tax relief, so it was incredibly regressive.

Ayup.

 

[jbrownson0831]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Well of course the prices are inflated everyone knows that.

 

[dblack]

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

Yes, insurance companies are trying to monopolize health care by making it unaffordable unless you buy insurance.

Exactly. That's why they don't complain about health care prices going up and up. They push back on individual claims, sure. But they're riding the gravy train. The higher health care prices go, the more they can con people into thinking that insurance is the only way. And, for what it's worth, replacing a handful of dominant insurance corporations with one - run by the government - doesn't change this dynamic at all.

 

[Rigby5]

A

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

And you blame that on Republicans when Democrats are just as guilty if not more so?

Democrats don't even pretend to stand up for limited government. Republicans have it on their calling card. It's a lie.

Congress has to work to attack the high cost of healthcare and you see what the makeup is in the House and Senate right now.....so?

There are 2 main causes of high health care costs.
One is the additional layers of medical corporations and insurance companies skimming but adding nothing, and the second is the 3rd party payer system where there is no one trying to keep prices down.
It is actually advantageous for insurance companies if prices are way inflated, because then people are even more compelled to buy insurance.

There are many possible fixes, but you get all the people in the same boat so a solution can be made, just by ending the 1959 IRS tax exemption for employer benefits like health insurance.

 

[jbrownson0831]

A

Underneath all the noise is the simple fact that Trump lied and the GOP lied when they said they had a replacement for Obamacare.

All the bitching in the world about "socialism" will not obscure that very real fact.

And that is why we are going to have UHC in our lifetimes.

Thanks a lot, assholes.

Waaah waah waah Obammycare got healthcare welfare for a few at increased cost to the rest of us....just like every other liberal program ever created. It doesnt need a replacement it needs an elimination.

You, along with most people in this thread, are missing g5000's point. He's not a fan of Obamacare, he's not in favor of UHC. He's just (rightfully, my view) blaming Republicans for allowing it to happen. They've done an incredibly bad job of standing up for limited government.

The President had only 4 years not 8, and all of it spent fighting off the wacko attacks on his presidency so not sure what you expected. With another term I am sure he could have rid the country of yet another anti American program like Obammycare.

ACA was passed in 2010. That was ten years ago. Republicans have had all that time to come up with a better way to fix the broken health care market. And frankly, they should have come up with something before it was even passed. They failed. Miserably.

Failed what? If you are talking about the high cost of medicines and hospital service then Obammycare only made that worse. As for anything else people can either choose healthcare for their family or get Iphones and Ipads instead, theeir choice.

Failed to address the fact that health care prices are artificially inflated - inflated beyond the means of the average health care consumer. Something is wrong with this picture.

And you blame that on Republicans when Democrats are just as guilty if not more so?

Democrats don't even pretend to stand up for limited government. Republicans have it on their calling card. It's a lie.

Congress has to work to attack the high cost of healthcare and you see what the makeup is in the House and Senate right now.....so?

There are 2 main causes of high health care costs.
One is the additional layers of medical corporations and insurance companies skimming but adding nothing, and the second is the 3rd party payer system where there is no one trying to keep prices down.
It is actually advantageous for insurance companies if prices are way inflated, because then people are even more compelled to buy insurance.

There are many possible fixes, but you get all the people in the same boat so a solution can be made, just by ending the 1959 IRS tax exemption for employer benefits like health insurance.

And that work would be accomplished by......Congress.