Liberal logic on IDs and voting

[kaz]

"When dead people show up to vote". More illogic. This is not something which only Voter ID can solve or prevent. In fact, your Voter ID is not going to cure that problem. All that is needed is for the registration rolls to be properly managed and cleared of dead people.

Actually that's been a well discussed basis of a bunch of liberal lawsuits. You should learn more about the subject before pontificating.

 

[g5000]

"When dead people show up to vote". More illogic. This is not something which only Voter ID can solve or prevent. In fact, your Voter ID is not going to cure that problem. All that is needed is for the registration rolls to be properly managed and cleared of dead people.

Actually that's been a well discussed basis of a bunch of liberal lawsuits. You should learn more about the subject before pontificating.

You should provide links. I don't believe you. I am intimately familiar with this subject. Nice try.

The only lawsuits have been to prevent IMPROPER maintenance of registration rolls. I have pointed those out in the past. In fact, one of the halts to an improper purge was initiated by a Republican county commissioner in Florida.

A WWII veteran was one of several people improperly purged. Funny that we did not see Hannity or Breitbart or Fox News or CNS News or the Washington Time or the Daily Caller scream bloody murder over a veteran getting disenfranchised due to a voter registration purge.

Where were all the faux patriots then?

Hmmmm...

I guess they were deaf and dumb because that goes against the narrative. We need every last sheep properly tagged with identity papers, the better to track and control them with.

 

[g5000]

South Florida Democrats say Gov. Rick Scott leading misguided effort to purge voters from state rolls

Bill Internicola was born in Brooklyn 91 years ago and received a Bronze Star for fighting in the Battle of the Bulge in World War II, but, according to the state of Florida, he may not be a U.S. citizen.

Internicola received a letter in May from the Broward Supervisor of Elections stating that it received "information from the State of Florida that you are not a United States citizen; however you are registered to vote." The letter was part of a controversial state-led effort to rid the voter rolls of noncitizens. Similar letters were sent to 259 Broward voters.

Internicola said he was “flabbergasted” by the suggestion that he wasn’t a citizen. He called the county’s election office and said: "Are you crazy?"

Bill Internicola was a registered Democrat.

 

[g5000]

I defy anyone to show me a "bunch of liberal lawsuits" to stop purges to remove dead people from voter registrations.

 

[BobPlumb]

Security of the voting system is extremely important. With billions of dollars being spent on election campaigns, one would think that reasonable steps to detect and prevent voter fraud should be taken.

First, the voter registration process should be secure. The majority of people should have to register in person with documentation to prove citizenship and address at a properly staffed voter registration office. If someone is so handicapped that going to the voter registration office is not reasonable, then a case worker who is employed by the voters registration office so go out and register such voter by request. Most people will have a driver's license that can serve as a picture ID for voting; otherwise a picture ID should be issued by the voter registration office.

Voters should not be able to register by simply filling out a form and mailing it in, or by doing an unverifiable form online. In person verification is critical. One person -- one vote. If Mickey Mouse is able to register to vote, there is a problem. If partisan groups want to have voter registration drives, then they need to drive those people to the voters registration office to get registered.

Voting should be performed at official polling places where ID can be verified. Those too handicapped to go to polling places should be able to request an athorized case worker to visit them to collect their votes.

Unverifiable mail in ballets should not be allowed. Our military should have a verifiable system for casting their votes.

 

[R.C. Christian]

I'm not a huge fan of showing my papers.

 

[kaz]

"When dead people show up to vote". More illogic. This is not something which only Voter ID can solve or prevent. In fact, your Voter ID is not going to cure that problem. All that is needed is for the registration rolls to be properly managed and cleared of dead people.

Actually that's been a well discussed basis of a bunch of liberal lawsuits. You should learn more about the subject before pontificating.

You should provide links. I don't believe you. I am intimately familiar with this subject. Nice try.

The only lawsuits have been to prevent IMPROPER maintenance of registration rolls. I have pointed those out in the past. In fact, one of the halts to an improper purge was initiated by a Republican county commissioner in Florida.

A distinction without a difference.

 

[g5000]

Security of the voting system is extremely important. With billions of dollars being spent on election campaigns, one would think that reasonable steps to detect and prevent voter fraud should be taken.

First, the voter registration process should be secure. The majority of people should have to register in person with documentation to prove citizenship and address at a properly staffed voter registration office. If someone is so handicapped that going to the voter registration office is not reasonable, then a case worker who is employed by the voters registration office so go out and register such voter by request. Most people will have a driver's license that can serve as a picture ID for voting; otherwise a picture ID should be issued by the voter registration office.

Voters should not be able to register by simply filling out a form and mailing it in, or by doing an unverifiable form online. In person verification is critical. One person -- one vote. If Mickey Mouse is able to register to vote, there is a problem. If partisan groups want to have voter registration drives, then they need to drive those people to the voters registration office to get registered.

Voting should be performed at official polling places where ID can be verified. Those too handicapped to go to polling places should be able to request an athorized case worker to visit them to collect their votes.

Unverifiable mail in ballets should not be allowed. Our military should have a verifiable system for casting their votes.

There is not a lot of voter fraud going on. There certainly is not enough going on to swing elections. Those who do commit fraud cast an extra vote or so. Why? Who knows. It has no effect on the outcome. Such people are just plain stupid.

Now someone is going to come along and say I believe NO voter fraud is going on. Disregard such people.

Anyway, the small amount of voter fraud suggests our system is nowhere near as broken as Voter ID proponents imagine it is.

I agree our registration system needs to be properly managed. I have repeatedly said so in this topic. When someone dies, there needs to be a mechanism which removes them from the voter registration rolls. When someone moves, there needs to be a mechanism to remove them from the rolls.

Everything hinges on the voter registration. When it is properly managed, Voter ID is completely unnecessary. Voter ID is as useless as a kickstand on a tank. A waste of the voters' time and taxpayers' money. It is more government red tape.

We have managed to hold elections for over two centuries without Voter ID, and there are very few historical examples of fraud on a scale large enough to change the outcome of an election, and no case of fraud which changed the outcome of a Presidential one.

Perhaps the single most effective fraud in our history was the one which got LBJ elected to the US Senate. But Voter ID would not have prevented that, either.

You said something about the military. I can tell you exactly how absentee registration works in the military since I am retired military.

You have to send away for a form several months before the election. Then you fill out the form and a superior officer has to sign it to validate your information and legitimacy as a voter.

Then you mail that in, and a few weeks before the election you get your ballot.

It's a tremendous nuisance, but I did it for 20 years that way.

But that is not how it works in the civilian world. Most people would not tolerate a process as difficult as that.

 

[g5000]

Another funny thing coming from the mouths of alleged right wingers on this subject.

They are saying identification papers for everyone is free.


Typical liberal mindset. Government stuff is free. Like ObamaPhones. Doesn't cost anything.

you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting)

Are these people really that stupid, lazy, or incapacitated that they are incapable of acquiring a simple, free ID?

The ID's are FREE.

 

[LTCArmyRet]

Ever asked yourself the question of why the libtards are against the voter ID laws being pushed right now?

Is it really to protect everyone's right to vote?

I think it's to protect their tried and true methods of manipulating the vote. ACORN comes to mind.

 

[AVG-JOE]

We need an ID to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to sign up for welfare, to get food stamps, to use your medicade card but you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting) to vote but they can get every where else to use the money they get FREE from the government GOTTCHA... Oh forgot you need an ID to get finger nail polish remover in some areas .. YEP

State issued ID cards do NOT prove citizenship.

The ONLY identification document that PROVES eligibility to vote in the USA is a US Passport.



What's the point of proving who you are if you still aren't required to prove your eligiblity?

​

That is what is going on here. This is incrementalism toward national identity papers that would pass Gestapo inspection at the voting booth, on trains, and on the sidewalk.

Bush and the GOP Congress passed the REAL ID act in 2005.

A definite pattern to all this.

You want to hear a funny one?

Back in the 1930's when FDR and the democrats were busy using public displeasure with the capital class to create Social Security, the idea of issuing numbers and cards was met with outcry from the right demonizing a national identification system.

That's why your Social Security number card will always be a flimsy paper card that melts when you sweat and can't be laminated.

 

[AVG-JOE]

State issued ID cards do NOT prove citizenship.

The ONLY identification document that PROVES eligibility to vote in the USA is a US Passport.



What's the point of proving who you are if you still aren't required to prove your eligiblity?

​

That is what is going on here. This is incrementalism toward national identity papers that would pass Gestapo inspection at the voting booth, on trains, and on the sidewalk.

Bush and the GOP Congress passed the REAL ID act in 2005.

A definite pattern to all this.

If you are on the voter rolls, you are eligible to vote. Proving who you are is not an invasion of privacy and does not keep any legitimate voter from voting.

you had to show an ID to register, show the same one to vote.

Its not a big deal----------unless your party is determined to stuff the ballot box with a lot of dead and illegal voters.

It's not a bad idea at all.

Provide free US Passport Cards to citizens who can vote and require them be shown at the polls. Cross reference against Medicare and Social Security to purge for death.

Or you can order an absentee ballot and vote by mail. AVG-WIFE checks my ID, and I hers.


Put this in your pipe and smoke it... figuring out a way to vote on line is going to have to happen.

 

[BobPlumb]

Security of the voting system is extremely important. With billions of dollars being spent on election campaigns, one would think that reasonable steps to detect and prevent voter fraud should be taken.

First, the voter registration process should be secure. The majority of people should have to register in person with documentation to prove citizenship and address at a properly staffed voter registration office. If someone is so handicapped that going to the voter registration office is not reasonable, then a case worker who is employed by the voters registration office so go out and register such voter by request. Most people will have a driver's license that can serve as a picture ID for voting; otherwise a picture ID should be issued by the voter registration office.

Voters should not be able to register by simply filling out a form and mailing it in, or by doing an unverifiable form online. In person verification is critical. One person -- one vote. If Mickey Mouse is able to register to vote, there is a problem. If partisan groups want to have voter registration drives, then they need to drive those people to the voters registration office to get registered.

Voting should be performed at official polling places where ID can be verified. Those too handicapped to go to polling places should be able to request an athorized case worker to visit them to collect their votes.

Unverifiable mail in ballets should not be allowed. Our military should have a verifiable system for casting their votes.

There is not a lot of voter fraud going on. There certainly is not enough going on to swing elections. Those who do commit fraud cast an extra vote or so. Why? Who knows. It has no effect on the outcome. Such people are just plain stupid.

Now someone is going to come along and say I believe NO voter fraud is going on. Disregard such people.

Anyway, the small amount of voter fraud suggests our system is nowhere near as broken as Voter ID proponents imagine it is.

I agree our registration system needs to be properly managed. I have repeatedly said so in this topic. When someone dies, there needs to be a mechanism which removes them from the voter registration rolls. When someone moves, there needs to be a mechanism to remove them from the rolls.

Everything hinges on the voter registration. When it is properly managed, Voter ID is completely unnecessary. Voter ID is as useless as a kickstand on a tank. A waste of the voters' time and taxpayers' money. It is more government red tape.

We have managed to hold elections for over two centuries without Voter ID, and there are very few historical examples of fraud on a scale large enough to change the outcome of an election, and no case of fraud which changed the outcome of a Presidential one.

Perhaps the single most effective fraud in our history was the one which got LBJ elected to the US Senate. But Voter ID would not have prevented that, either.

You said something about the military. I can tell you exactly how absentee registration works in the military since I am retired military.

You have to send away for a form several months before the election. Then you fill out the form and a superior officer has to sign it to validate your information and legitimacy as a voter.

Then you mail that in, and a few weeks before the election you get your ballot.

It's a tremendous nuisance, but I did it for 20 years that way.

But that is not how it works in the civilian world. Most people would not tolerate a process as difficult as that.

Voter ID in an of itself will do little to prevent voter fraud. However, if a voter system is not designed to prevent and detect voter fraud, saying that there is not a problem with fraud is like the owner of a night club saying that his club doesn't have a problem with underage drinkers when he has no ID check. And without the proper verifications, how will anyone know after the fact.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Did the OP ever explain their logic or were they comfortable not having any?

the logic-fail is on the side of the libs who can never tell us who is disenfranchised by voter ID

In Florida it's everyone who can't afford $25 for an ID card ($48 for a license) and/or gas money to get to the DMV. No big deal for most of us, but it ain't free.

I'm all in favor of requiring ID as long as it's free.

 

[blackhawk]

We need an ID to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to sign up for welfare, to get food stamps, to use your medicade card but you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting) to vote but they can get every where else to use the money they get FREE from the government GOTTCHA... Oh forgot you need an ID to get finger nail polish remover in some areas .. YEP

Liberal logic is a oxymoron.

 

[gallantwarrior]

All that is happening right now. If it not broke don't fix it. Why are you trying to fix something that's not broken and fits your list of needs above. To hurt the less fortunate

In this state it is, we have had voter ID for years. Nothing to fix in the states that already have voter ID.

Why does voter ID hurt the less fortunate? 99.999% of them have ID's in order to get govt benefits. I really don't understand why you object to requiring voters to prove who they are before voting, and you have yet to tell us who specifically would be harmed.

The only possible explanation is that you support corruption in the voting process and that voter ID makes corruption more difficult.

So after 3-4 exchanges with you you cant say why the ID is "needed" other than because I want it.

Again, to stop as many people as possible from voting. Unless you remember a good reason some other time

I'm still not seeing how requiring ID will stop anybody from legally voting.

 

[gallantwarrior]

In this state it is, we have had voter ID for years. Nothing to fix in the states that already have voter ID.

Why does voter ID hurt the less fortunate? 99.999% of them have ID's in order to get govt benefits. I really don't understand why you object to requiring voters to prove who they are before voting, and you have yet to tell us who specifically would be harmed.

The only possible explanation is that you support corruption in the voting process and that voter ID makes corruption more difficult.

So after 3-4 exchanges with you you cant say why the ID is "needed" other than because I want it.

Again, to stop as many people as possible from voting. Unless you remember a good reason some other time

how many times do you need it explained? voter ID is to ensure that each registered voter votes once in the precinct where he or she is registered and to minimize the possibility of fraud. No one wants to keep people from voting, we just want the process as corruption free as possible. Why don't you want corruption kept out of voting?

your failed dem/lib talking points about keeping people from voting have once again FAILED.

I think he greatly fears that without corruption, his side will lose every time.

 

[gallantwarrior]

These guys are playing the perpetual ignorance game.

How does this hurt the poor? Answer: It does
How is getting an ID a problem? Answer: It is
Why is getting an ID a big deal? Answer: Restricts for no reason

Repubs response: Still for it
Repubs reason: "Unknown" (but we know the reasons)

are those poor on welfare, food stamps, or medicaid? If so, they have an ID

Bad assumption. They may have had ID at the time they applied for assitance, that does not mean it has not expired since then.

You also assume the identification necessary for welfare meets the same strict standards of some Voter ID laws.

Getting an ID is no more difficult that getting to the polling place, if you can get to the polling place you can get an ID

It's an extra step. An extra, completely unnecessary step that will not stop voter fraud.

That is your opinion. The only reason not to require an individual to identify themselves is to facilitate fraud. If it were the "other side" perpetrating fraud on any level, you'd be up in arms about the lack of ID.

 

[Caroljo]

We need an ID to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to sign up for welfare, to get food stamps, to use your medicade card but you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting) to vote but they can get every where else to use the money they get FREE from the government GOTTCHA... Oh forgot you need an ID to get finger nail polish remover in some areas .. YEP

This illogical fallacy is getting really tired.

I can demonstrate that showing an ID is the only way to prove someone is of legal drinking age, but you cannot show that Voter ID is the only way to prevent or catch voter fraud. In fact, you cannot show any actual voter fraud which could only have been caught or prevented by Voter ID.

Why is it that Voter ID scares the panties off of liberals so badly?

In my precinct, the good volunteers behind the table have a listing of every registered voter in that precinct. It also has our address listed. You tell them your name and they flip to your page and you sign your name on the dotted line before being given a ballot. This is of course after you show them your photo ID. They know that each person who walks in to vote is exactly who they say they are and can prove it and actually lives in the precinct. There is no voter fraud at the ballot box in my state because you simply can't walk up and say you are Joe Blow and demand a ballot. It has absolutely nothing to do with race or income and everything to do with being who you say you are as a registered voter in that precinct. Why is that so scary to liberals?

That's how it is in Michigan too. If you don't have ID on you when you go in, you go get that ID before you get to vote. If I voted, then someone else came after me and said they were me, they would not be voting because they show proof that I already did...

 

[RichardMissing]

so whites are required to show ID, but its not required for blacks and unemployed latino's who barley speak English?