Liberalism vs America

[Pogo]

Is there a difference? I don't see it.

Yeah I'm hip. That's what I just noted.

The quick example I like to go to:
When we declare "all men are created equal", that's Liberalism in a nutshell. There's probably no more Liberal tenet. We prohibit ourselves from establishing a hierarchy of unequals.

--- When we take that statement and try to force all men to be equal by way of governmental manipulation ("affirmative action"), that is the point where we have left Liberalism and gone to leftism.

Half a century ago fearmongers of the McCarthy era started conflating the two. It was dishonest then and it's dishonest now.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Liberalism founded America. Liberals threw the Revolution. Every time you see the word Liberty, or Freedom, or Right, or Public, or Vote, or Civil, or Citizen, that's Liberalism. You live in a Liberal nation founded by Liberals on the basis of Liberalism. Now learn why that's true and wonder why this is news to you, because it shouldn't be...

Not in the modern sense.

The Liberals of the 18th century, were advocates of individual liberty, which they recognized could only exist through the adherence to sound, sustainable principle and the bearing of individual responsibilities that sustained the means to exercise one's liberty.

In the modern vernacular, "Liberal" stands in direct and irretrievable opposition to such, holding the needs of the collective above the rights of the individual.

In truth, where the rights of the individual are secured by the sum of individuals that comprise the collective recognizing and adhering to their personal responsibilities... the needs of the collective will axiomatically be met.

Just as it is true, that where the individuals comprising the collective reject their individual responsibilities, the needs of the collective can never be met.

This is how we can know that Left-think, OKA: Socialism, AKA: Liberalism... doesn't work.

Because there is no way that it can work, it exists in diametric opposition to the laws of nature.

 

[Youch]

sorry, you are speaking to the old definition of liberal...today...a liberal believes that to achieve "freedom" you need the government to make it possible...meaning...a huge,central government making decisions on the freedom of ordinary citizens...

Agreed.

 

[BlindBoo]

What liberalism has done to America?

1) Ruined the family structure for many.

2) Put the country on the road to bankruptcy

3) Made it acceptable for far to many to waste their lives drunk, drugged and freeloading.

1. Neither side has a lock on that.

2. The Pseudo-Cons (Raygun and Bushes) policies have accounted for more debit and deficits than the supposed liberals(Clinton and Obama).

3. Again neither side has a lock on that.

 

[Pogo]

Not in the modern sense.

The Liberals of the 18th century, were advocates of individual liberty, which they recognized could only exist through the adherence to sound, sustainable principle and the bearing of individual responsibilities that sustained the means to exercise one's liberty.

In the modern vernacular, "Liberal" stands in direct and irretrievable opposition to such, holding the needs of the collective above the rights of the individual.

In truth, where the rights of the individual are secured by the sum of individuals that comprise the collective recognizing and adhering to their personal responsibilities... the needs of the collective will axiomatically be met.

Just as it is true, that where the individuals comprising the collective reject their individual responsibilities, the needs of the collective can never be met.

This is how we can know that Left-think, OKA: Socialism, AKA: Liberalism... doesn't work.

Because there is no way that it can work, it exists in diametric opposition to the laws of nature.

No. It doesn't mean that at all. You can call a mountain a "river"; that doesn't make it one just because you say so. And once again like the previous guy you're conflating "left" and "Liberal" and "socialism" as if they're all the same thing. That's absurd, and lazy thinking. Why would we need multiple words for the same thing? Think about it. What you have here is a misapplication of terms by demagogues seeking to demonize a term by association. You need to grow out of that stage of gullibility.

 

[Pogo]

What liberalism has done to America?

1) Ruined the family structure for many.

2) Put the country on the road to bankruptcy

3) Made it acceptable for far to many to waste their lives drunk, drugged and freeloading.

1. Neither side has a lock on that.

2. The Pseudo-Cons (Raygun and Bushes) policies have accounted for more debit and deficits than the supposed liberals(Clinton and Obama).

3. Again neither side has a lock on that.

Indeed, two of those are social evolution commentary -- not even politics at all. I'm afraid that's the typical even-lazier thinking of the OP, who once proposed on these pages that the Democratic Party actually invented the slave trade-- two hundred years before they existed. Neither governments nor politicians can shift social mores. To the contrary, they follow those mores.

 

[Freemason9]

yesterdays definition of liberal is not the same as today

Liberalism is Marxism/Socialism today, in the past it meant Conservatism, Freedom.

"Modern liberalism" and "modern conservativism" are flip sides of the same capitalist coin. Neither bear any resemplence to "small-L liberalism" in the classic sense. If you consistantly vote "R" or "D," you're a tool.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Where or when have I ever advocated any of the above? Quote me.

Can't do it. Because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Go ahead -- find one.

Pogo is a liberal; always for more and more govt even now when govt is bigger than ever! Magical govt is 100% of what liberals are about simply becuase they lack the IQ to understand capitalism.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"Modern liberalism" and "modern conservativism" are flip sides of the same capitalist coin. Neither bear any resemplence to "small-L liberalism" in the classic sense. If you consistantly vote "R" or "D," you're a tool.

actually dear modern liberals are opposed to capitalism. Ever heard of Obamacare? Conservatives are for capitalism. China just switched to capitalism and instantly eliminated 40% of world power. How's that for the 100th vindication of capitalism? If you are opposed to capitlaism it is simply because you lack the IQ to understand how it works.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Is there a difference? I don't see it.

Left and liberal are the same! Any fool knows that!

 

[bendog]

What liberalism has done to America?

1) Ruined the family structure for many.

2) Put the country on the road to bankruptcy

3) Made it acceptable for far to many to waste their lives drunk, drugged and freeloading.

I gotta go with Reagan on 2.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I gotta go with Reagan on 2.

actually Reagan started the Great Moderation- the longest period of sustained economic growth in American history. See why we say liberals are slow?

 

[Lumpy 1]

I figure it has to do with the liberal education system, where true critical though is buried by misdirection, out and out lies and unfounded hate.

 

[Lumpy 1]

1. Neither side has a lock on that.

2. The Pseudo-Cons (Raygun and Bushes) policies have accounted for more debit and deficits than the supposed liberals(Clinton and Obama).

3. Again neither side has a lock on that.

Liberalism includes never actually taking responsibility for failures, stealing credit for others successes and as a last resort liberally including others in their failures.

 

[Agit8r]

I think it is pretty clear which of these ideologies actually belongs in America:

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

2. The Pseudo-Cons (Raygun and Bushes) policies have accounted for more debit and deficits than the supposed liberals(Clinton and Obama).

.

but that is only because the cons have never had completel control of the 3 brances of govt, the press, and the electorate.

 

[Pogo]

Liberalism includes never actually taking responsibility for failures, stealing credit for others successes and as a last resort liberally including others in their failures.

Once again -- none of the above has jack squat to do with political philosophies.

 

[Pogo]

but that is only because the cons have never had completel control of the 3 brances of govt, the press, and the electorate.

Ah, so what you want is absolute monopoly, even down to control of the press AND the people.

Thanks for coming out.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Ah, so what you want is absolute monopoly, even down to control of the press AND the people.

Thanks for coming out.

dear, please reread for comprehension, I didn't say thats what I want I said that is what's needed for one party to be able to move the country in one direction or the other. Got it now?

 

[Pogo]

Pogo is a liberal; always for more and more govt even now when govt is bigger than ever! Magical govt is 100% of what liberals are about simply becuase they lack the IQ to understand capitalism.

Hey, feel free to take the same challenge and quote me where I've called for anything that poster was whining about.

Any one at all.

I'll wait.