Liberals: Where You Went Wrong

[PoliticalChic]

I love when the losing side tells the winning side what they did wrong...

Your post suggest this question: losing side of what?

1. If it is the election you refer to, it is clear that you have all the depth of wall paper.


2. If it is the America of the Founders, and Liberty itself, that is lost, and you treat it with a shrug, it is a sense of priorities that has been lost, and it is yours.

If the Founders were here today, I'd suggest they'd be in horror of the power of corporations.

So....you're one of those 'hate success' guys?



What are you occupying these days....the couch?

 

[konradv]

Bet you want to set up re-education camps for some of us, huh?

As much as you may need it, that wasn't my point. The ONLY reason you have rights is because there's an entity to back them up. You can quote anyone you like, but that doesn't change the fact that, if I were of evil intent and had power over you, your claim of inalienable or natural "rights" would be just so much hot air.

Then another protective service would be established in the absent of a current one. In colonial times, this would happen in some instances by the leading families of a settlement to try and convict someone who breached common law. There is no difference here at all. You just have a morbid view of humanity where everyone is evil and greedy and mean spirited....which makes one wonder why you think that a protection service for our rights can determine whether or not you get to keep them.

You believe people are evil, then in the same breath believe government, made up of these same evil people, is omnipotent.

it's a fucking perplexing thought process.

Who said everyone was evil? That's just you putting words in my mouth and doesn't in any way answer my contention that "natural rights" are imaginary. The problem isn't that I think everyone is evil, but that some are and as you said some form of control is necessary, whether you call it "government" or "leading families". I never said government was omnipotent either, just that absent some form of it, rights are ephemeral. What I can't understand is your thought process that automatically makes government "the other". Who's REALLY saying people are evil? Not me.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Conservatives have been saying that for over 60 years

Proving that Progressives are not as bright as they think they are, but they are entertaining

Sorry..but conservatives have been trying to sell that "Liberals are Commies" crap for 60 years. Didn't work under McCarthy....doesn't work now

The thrust is that it was McCarthyism, more than Soviet espionage or Communism infiltration of government, that was – in the words of the October 23, 1998, NYTimes editorial, “a lethal threat to American democracy.” This, in the same editorial that admitted that the evidence against Julius Rosenberg, and “most likely” Alger Hiss, was clear.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yeah...frank I wouldn't go spouting who isn't smart around here.

As usual, you add so much to the conversation.

I like to match your stupidity with insulting. I feel you are everything that is wrong with this nation.people like you need to be quarantined, for being dangers.

One more time!!!


There it is, the overpowering urge by the Left and their minions to silence opposition voices and/or remove any one who disagrees with their version of the 'general will."


I don't believe that the Right demands that the Libs 'shut up,' or 'get out,' or your quaint 'be quarantined.'


Is there any possibility that you understand the difference, and which is American, and which anti-American?

 

[konradv]

Thanks, Corky.

i.e. don't have a reasonable answer, so I'll go with the snide put down.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The problem with Conservatives is that they are always on the wrong side of history

They opposed the American Revolution
They opposed abolition
They opposed the womens vote
They opposed worker protections
They opposed Civil Rights
They opposed environmental protections

Today, they continue the proud legacy of conservatism.....blocking gay rights, access to healthcare, immigration reform

This is exactly right. The "conservative" movement is dominated by sociopathic personalities that seek to dominate others.

I am not a 'sociopathic personalities'- my mother had me tested!

 

[PoliticalChic]

I like to match your stupidity with insulting. I feel you are everything that is wrong with this nation.people like you need to be quarantined, for being dangers.

Proving that Progressive are Fascists

And that you are a retard.

You smarties jump right to those abstruse references!

Geezz....if only I were as well-read.....

 

[Sallow]

"Classic Liberalism" - A faux term coined by conservatives includes:

1. The belief that slavery is viable industry.
2. That women should not have the right to vote.
3. That the landed white christian gentry should be the decision makers in this country.

Are you seriously this uneducated? That you spout such complete nonsense?
If you were smart, you'd be ashamed and keep quiet. Maybe go read. Instead, you'll do this very embarrassing act again later.

Ashamed of what?

That's exactly what the environment was like back in the good old days.

It is you..that should be embarrassed.

Now take off that tri-cornered hat.

 

[rightwinger]

The problem with Conservatives is that they are always on the wrong side of history

They opposed the American Revolution
They opposed abolition
They opposed the womens vote
They opposed worker protections
They opposed Civil Rights
They opposed environmental protections

Today, they continue the proud legacy of conservatism.....blocking gay rights, access to healthcare, immigration reform

This is exactly right. The "conservative" movement is dominated by sociopathic personalities that seek to dominate others.

I am not a 'sociopathic personalities'- my mother had me tested!

Sociopathic personalities know how to fake it......the bastards!

 

[Sallow]

The problem with Conservatives is that they are always on the wrong side of history

They opposed the American Revolution
They opposed abolition
They opposed the womens vote
They opposed worker protections
They opposed Civil Rights
They opposed environmental protections

Today, they continue the proud legacy of conservatism.....blocking gay rights, access to healthcare, immigration reform

This is exactly right. The "conservative" movement is dominated by sociopathic personalities that seek to dominate others.

I am not a 'sociopathic personalities'- my mother had me tested!

Did he ever find out about the cat you buried in the backyard?

What a mess..

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Modern Liberalism, as distinct from the Classical Liberalism of the Founders, was far from a terrible idea. They endorsed two political themes: a) democratic reforms, and b) apolitical managerial expertise.

a. From the former, progressives supported measures designed to promote more direct democratic input, such as direct election of Senators, state ballot initiatives and referenda on the recall of stated officials.

b. The latter involved ‘scientific management’ of government, putting political decision making in the hands of ostensibly apolitical bureaucrats, ‘nonpartisan’ commissions, and regulatory agencies remote from democratic accountability. And these designed to check monopolies and trusts, and regulate railroads and utilities, and favor social welfare legislation.

c. But it didn't end there.




2. For over a century the natural rights concept of the Founders, and of Abraham Lincoln, had served as the philosophical foundation for America. But, during the late 19th -early 20th centuries, what we know as ‘progressives’ repudiated the idea. A leading progressive, John Dewey: “Natural rights and natural liberties exist only in the kingdom of mythology and social zoology.” Dewey, “Liberalism and Social Action,” p. 17.

a. Charles Merriam: “The individualistic ideas of the ‘natural rights’ school of political theory, endorsed in the Revolution, are discredited and repudiated.” Merriam, “A History of American Political Theories,” p. 307.

3. Let’s be clear: the central doctrine of progressives is that government can withdraw any ‘right’ at any time, as opposed to the view that there are permanent rights founded in “nature and nature’s God.” Perhaps you recall it this way: that humans are “endowed by their Creator” with “unalienable rights.”

a. "Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred." Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1523: You can not surrender, sell or transfer unalienable rights, they are a gift from the creator to the individual and can not under any circumstances be surrendered or taken. All individual's have unalienable rights.

b. In a 1996 paper, "Private Speech, Public Purpose: The Role of Governmental Motive in First Amendment Doctrine," Obama's Supreme Court Justice Kagan argued it may be proper to suppress speech because it is offensive to society or to the government. : "Whether a given category of speech enjoys First Amendment protection depends upon a categorical balancing of the value of the speech against its societal costs." WyBlog -- Elena Kagan's America: some speech can be "disappeared"





4. Progressives believed that rights are relative (Dewey spoke of ‘historical relativity’) and that not just society changes, but human nature itself does; i.e., it is malleable. Compare this to the view of the Founders. The Constitution commemorates our revolution, and, as Madison states in the ‘Federalist,’ is the greatest of all reflections on human nature…human beings are not angels.”

a. Humans are not perfectible, but are capable of self government. The republican form of government presupposes this idea of humans. Our government is not a controlling government, but must itself be controlled: by the Constitution.

b. Where else do we see the progressives view? “Communist Revolution is based on the idea of transforming human nature. “The New Soviet man or New Soviet person (Russian: новый советский челове&#1082, as postulated by the ideologists of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, was an archetype of a person with certain qualities that were said to be emerging as dominant among all citizens of the Soviet Union, irrespective of the country's long-standing cultural, ethnic, and linguistic diversity, creating a single Soviet people, Soviet nation.[1] New Soviet man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

c. The view is consistent today: In 1969, Hillary Rodham gave the student commencement address at Wellesley in which she said that “ for too long our leaders have used politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible, possible….We’re not interested in social reconstruction; it’s human reconstruction.” http://www.wellesley.edu/PublicAffairs/Commencement/1969/053169hillary.html_____





5. Until the 1930’s, the Constitution served to check progressive’s enthusiasm. But the Imperial President, FDR, wielded enough power to make the enumerated powers merely a suggestion. New Deal Liberals “sought to regulate modern industrial organization, not by returning influence to the individual farmer, worker, or businessman, but by building a parallel capacity in the national government to regulate and direct it.”
James Piereson,”Camelot and the Cultural Revolution: How the Assassination of John F. Kennedy Shattered American Liberalism,” p. 6.


6. To review…the modern liberal’s excesses include
a) the removal of natural rights,
b) the attempt to change human nature,
c) denial of the efficacy of the free market with the substitute view that good-natured bureaucrats will know how to assign economic value.
d)Further….that there is no limitation to the power of government.



I don't see any way back from this ineluctable march of totalitarianism.

Conservatives: Where YOU went wrong was allowing your party to be captured by that crowd of Nuevo-Fascist, pro-corporate stooges called Neo-Conservatives.

Barry Goldwater must be spinning in his grave to see what's accepted as "conservative" today.

Conservatism, based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.


Now...which of those was it you have a problem with?

 

[PoliticalChic]

And today, no conservative, for example, opposes the right of women to vote. At least none I can think of. What was once a divisive controversial liberal cause is now universally accepted. Why?

Because progress is human nature. Conservatives, generation by generation, routinely oppose progress; they seek to 'conserve' that which natural human progress is attempting to change.

One of the things the CON$ervoFascist Brotherhood hates most is the woman's right to vote and they would get rid of it in a heartbeat if they thought they could get away with it!

August 8, 2008
RUSH: Now we're told the night Hillary speaks is the anniversary of women getting the vote, which is what started the welfare state that now strangles us, by the way. If women had never gotten the vote we wouldn't have a budget deficit, but that's another story.

"I think [women] should be armed but should not vote ... women have no capacity to understand how money is earned. They have a lot of ideas on how to spend it ... it's always more money on education, more money on child care, more money on day care."
- Ann Coulter, Politically Incorrect, February 26, 2001.

"It would be a much better country if women did not vote. That is simply a fact. In fact, in every presidential election since 1950 - except Goldwater in '64 - the Republican would have won, if only the men had voted."
- Ann Coulter, The Guardian, Friday 16 May 2003

So PC is Coulter's biggest fan and Coulter wishes PC couldn't vote. jeezus, between the two of them there's enough self-loathing to start a new religion.

Nah....that was paint-boy.

He said I had to be quarantined.
But...then how would you boys get an education?

 

[PoliticalChic]

As I've been saying since the 90's, conservatism in America is business. It's a money making media conglomerate.

See what I mean?

Here comes some education:

Often misquoted as ‘The business of America is business,” Calvin Coolidge really said:

“... After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world. I am strongly of opinion that the great majority of people will always find these are moving impulses of our life. … Wealth is the product of industry, ambition, character and untiring effort.

In all experience, the accumulation of wealth means the multiplication of schools, the increase of knowledge, the dissemination of intelligence, the encouragement of science, the broadening of outlook, the expansion of liberties, the widening of culture.

Of course, the accumulation of wealth cannot be justified as the chief end of existence. But we are compelled to recognize it as a means to well-nigh every desirable achievement. So long as wealth is made the means and not the end, we need not greatly fear it.” January 17, 1925 Given before the American Society of Newspaper Editors



There'll be a short quiz later....

 

[Sallow]

1. Modern Liberalism, as distinct from the Classical Liberalism of the Founders, was far from a terrible idea. They endorsed two political themes: a) democratic reforms, and b) apolitical managerial expertise.

a. From the former, progressives supported measures designed to promote more direct democratic input, such as direct election of Senators, state ballot initiatives and referenda on the recall of stated officials.

b. The latter involved ‘scientific management’ of government, putting political decision making in the hands of ostensibly apolitical bureaucrats, ‘nonpartisan’ commissions, and regulatory agencies remote from democratic accountability. And these designed to check monopolies and trusts, and regulate railroads and utilities, and favor social welfare legislation.

c. But it didn't end there.




2. For over a century the natural rights concept of the Founders, and of Abraham Lincoln, had served as the philosophical foundation for America. But, during the late 19th -early 20th centuries, what we know as ‘progressives’ repudiated the idea. A leading progressive, John Dewey: “Natural rights and natural liberties exist only in the kingdom of mythology and social zoology.” Dewey, “Liberalism and Social Action,” p. 17.

a. Charles Merriam: “The individualistic ideas of the ‘natural rights’ school of political theory, endorsed in the Revolution, are discredited and repudiated.” Merriam, “A History of American Political Theories,” p. 307.

3. Let’s be clear: the central doctrine of progressives is that government can withdraw any ‘right’ at any time, as opposed to the view that there are permanent rights founded in “nature and nature’s God.” Perhaps you recall it this way: that humans are “endowed by their Creator” with “unalienable rights.”

a. "Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred." Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1523: You can not surrender, sell or transfer unalienable rights, they are a gift from the creator to the individual and can not under any circumstances be surrendered or taken. All individual's have unalienable rights.

b. In a 1996 paper, "Private Speech, Public Purpose: The Role of Governmental Motive in First Amendment Doctrine," Obama's Supreme Court Justice Kagan argued it may be proper to suppress speech because it is offensive to society or to the government. : "Whether a given category of speech enjoys First Amendment protection depends upon a categorical balancing of the value of the speech against its societal costs." WyBlog -- Elena Kagan's America: some speech can be "disappeared"





4. Progressives believed that rights are relative (Dewey spoke of ‘historical relativity’) and that not just society changes, but human nature itself does; i.e., it is malleable. Compare this to the view of the Founders. The Constitution commemorates our revolution, and, as Madison states in the ‘Federalist,’ is the greatest of all reflections on human nature…human beings are not angels.”

a. Humans are not perfectible, but are capable of self government. The republican form of government presupposes this idea of humans. Our government is not a controlling government, but must itself be controlled: by the Constitution.

b. Where else do we see the progressives view? “Communist Revolution is based on the idea of transforming human nature. “The New Soviet man or New Soviet person (Russian: новый советский челове&#1082, as postulated by the ideologists of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, was an archetype of a person with certain qualities that were said to be emerging as dominant among all citizens of the Soviet Union, irrespective of the country's long-standing cultural, ethnic, and linguistic diversity, creating a single Soviet people, Soviet nation.[1] New Soviet man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

c. The view is consistent today: In 1969, Hillary Rodham gave the student commencement address at Wellesley in which she said that “ for too long our leaders have used politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible, possible….We’re not interested in social reconstruction; it’s human reconstruction.” http://www.wellesley.edu/PublicAffairs/Commencement/1969/053169hillary.html_____





5. Until the 1930’s, the Constitution served to check progressive’s enthusiasm. But the Imperial President, FDR, wielded enough power to make the enumerated powers merely a suggestion. New Deal Liberals “sought to regulate modern industrial organization, not by returning influence to the individual farmer, worker, or businessman, but by building a parallel capacity in the national government to regulate and direct it.”
James Piereson,”Camelot and the Cultural Revolution: How the Assassination of John F. Kennedy Shattered American Liberalism,” p. 6.


6. To review…the modern liberal’s excesses include
a) the removal of natural rights,
b) the attempt to change human nature,
c) denial of the efficacy of the free market with the substitute view that good-natured bureaucrats will know how to assign economic value.
d)Further….that there is no limitation to the power of government.



I don't see any way back from this ineluctable march of totalitarianism.

Conservatives: Where YOU went wrong was allowing your party to be captured by that crowd of Nuevo-Fascist, pro-corporate stooges called Neo-Conservatives.

Barry Goldwater must be spinning in his grave to see what's accepted as "conservative" today.

Conservatism, based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.


Now...which of those was it you have a problem with?

The parts with all the "except in this case.."

 

[PoliticalChic]

This is exactly right. The "conservative" movement is dominated by sociopathic personalities that seek to dominate others.

I am not a 'sociopathic personalities'- my mother had me tested!

Did he ever find out about the cat you buried in the backyard?

What a mess..

I ate as much as I could.....what the heck was I supposed to do with the rest???

 

[Dick Tuck]

Your post suggest this question: losing side of what?

1. If it is the election you refer to, it is clear that you have all the depth of wall paper.


2. If it is the America of the Founders, and Liberty itself, that is lost, and you treat it with a shrug, it is a sense of priorities that has been lost, and it is yours.

If the Founders were here today, I'd suggest they'd be in horror of the power of corporations.

l?

So....you're one of those 'hate success' guys?



What are you occupying these days....the couch?

I call you a Twinkie case. Let the managemnt triple their salary, while asking the workers to take an eight percent cut. Is this your business model? Are you really this pathetically stupid?

I've already gotten a two hour recipe for a Twinke. I doubt I'll ever use it. But, neither will I piss on people who don't like getting fucked by people taking huge raises, while asking their employees to take huge cuts.

Fuck those brain dead morons. Growth and prosperity is for intellegent management coming up with strategies that rewards workers, asks for their input, and moves forward as partners. I gather you think this is somehow Marxist.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If the Founders were here today, I'd suggest they'd be in horror of the power of corporations.

l?

So....you're one of those 'hate success' guys?



What are you occupying these days....the couch?

I call you a Twinkie case. Let the managemnt triple their salary, while asking the workers to take an eight percent cut. Is this your business model? Are you really this pathetically stupid?

I've already gotten a two hour recipe for a Twinke. I doubt I'll ever use it. But, neither will I piss on people who don't like getting fucked by people taking huge raises, while asking their employees to take huge cuts.

Fuck those brain dead morons. Growth and prosperity is for intellegent management coming up with strategies that rewards workers, asks for their input, and moves forward as partners. I gather you think this is somehow Marxist.

Watch ya' language.


Twinkie???

Hey....is that a racist comment: yellow outside, white inside......
...I represent....er, resent that.


I gather that you're a lousy worker and got an 8% deduction.



"Let the managemnt triple their salary,..."
“…in 1967 only one in 25 families earned an income of $100,000 or more in real income, whereas now, one in six do. The percentage of families that have an income of more than $75,000 a year has tripled from 9% to 27%. But it's not just the rich that are getting richer. Virtually every income group has been lifted by the tide of growth in recent decades.”
Great American Dream Machine


How you feel now...booyyyyyyeeeee??

 

[TakeAStepBack]

"Classic Liberalism" - A faux term coined by conservatives includes:

1. The belief that slavery is viable industry.
2. That women should not have the right to vote.
3. That the landed white christian gentry should be the decision makers in this country.

Are you seriously this uneducated? That you spout such complete nonsense?
If you were smart, you'd be ashamed and keep quiet. Maybe go read. Instead, you'll do this very embarrassing act again later.

Ashamed of what?

That's exactly what the environment was like back in the good old days.

It is you..that should be embarrassed.

Now take off that tri-cornered hat.

So, you're sticking with this nonsense that classical liberalism was made up by conservatives, that they believe woman should not be able to vote and that we should be a christian theocracy?

Seriously, this is one of those moments where the ridiculous is so profound Im not sure if you're trolling or really this fucking stupid.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

And I knew you couldn't help but do it again later.

 

[Dick Tuck]

l?

So....you're one of those 'hate success' guys?



What are you occupying these days....the couch?

I call you a Twinkie case. Let the managemnt triple their salary, while asking the workers to take an eight percent cut. Is this your business model? Are you really this pathetically stupid?

I've already gotten a two hour recipe for a Twinke. I doubt I'll ever use it. But, neither will I piss on people who don't like getting fucked by people taking huge raises, while asking their employees to take huge cuts.

Fuck those brain dead morons. Growth and prosperity is for intellegent management coming up with strategies that rewards workers, asks for their input, and moves forward as partners. I gather you think this is somehow Marxist.

Watch ya' language.


Twinkie???

Hey....is that a racist comment: yellow outside, white inside......
...I represent....er, resent that.


I gather that you're a lousy worker and got an 8% deduction.



"Let the managemnt triple their salary,..."
“…in 1967 only one in 25 families earned an income of $100,000 or more in real income, whereas now, one in six do. The percentage of families that have an income of more than $75,000 a year has tripled from 9% to 27%. But it's not just the rich that are getting richer. Virtually every income group has been lifted by the tide of growth in recent decades.”
Great American Dream Machine


How you feel now...booyyyyyyeeeee??

You gather wrong. But you're a fucking Twinkie.