List EXACTLY what the U.S. gains in pulling out of Iran deal.

[bendog]

TownHall?

Here are just a couple of the issues that I challenge you to defend. I have more, but I think this is a good start right here.

14) Obama’s administration gave guns to Mexican cartels that were used to murder hundreds of Mexicans and border agent Brian Terry. The Obama Administration has refused to cooperate with the investigation or hold anyone accountable for that illegal behavior.

15) The NSA has spied on Americans under Obama.

16) Under Obama, the CIA spied on the Senate.

17) Obama’s campaign contributors at Solyndra were handed 535 million dollars of taxpayer money that the Obama Administration knew they would never be able to pay back before they gave it to them.

18) The IRS targeted Obama’s political enemies including Christian groups, pro-Israel groups, and most prominently, Tea Party groups. The Obama Administration has refused to cooperate with the investigation or hold anyone accountable for the illegal behavior.

19) Numerous donors to Mitt Romney were audited by the IRS after giving him large contributions.

20) When the EPA and IRS were asked to provide emails requested by Congress as part of an investigation into their illegal activities, they’ve claimed over and over again to have lost the information because of “hard drive crashes.” Given that it’s quite easy to back up a hard drive and that they’re required by law to retain that information, it seems likely that they’re habitually destroying evidence to hide their illegal activities.


21) Veterans received poor health care and even died because of the incompetence and cover-ups of Obama’s VA.

22) Even Barney Frank admits Barack Obama shamelessly lied to the American people to get Obamacare passed – and lie, he did. He promised that Americans could keep their insurance plans, that they could keep their doctors, and that Obamacare would save the average family $2500 per year. Not only were all of those lies, Obama knew they were lies when he made those promises.

what is relevant to the Iran deal?

I don't know. I'm just wondering why leftists cannot defend their ideas very well and instead resort to personal attacks, name calling and brushing off legitimate problems with their ideologies.

Well, I looked for previous posts by you that would identify what was lacking in the deal requiring the US to back out, and didn't see anything. I think the deal lacked on missile research and support in Yemen. I don't think we were going to get intl support for that, so the question was whether the deal was still worth doing, and imo it beat the alternative: war. And, I don't see it in Americas interest to concern itself with Hamas or Hezbollah with Israel. And Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syria are issues that don't involve nuclear arms

Well, how do we benefit from this deal? it seems like a big risk for very LITTLE if any benefit at all, and I certainly do not believe for a second that the Iranians are not going to take this technology and use it against us at some point in the future, either as leverage or, something else. Insane people are not predictable.

the deal is dead. What we got was iaea inspections. And we were the only one of the coalition that gave a rats ass about Israel and Iran. The remaining countries in the coalition will keep the trading of oil and goods.

It would seem that Netanyahoo wants a return to neocons threateing to bomb Tehran over Hezbollah.

 

[ChrisL]

Here are just a couple of the issues that I challenge you to defend. I have more, but I think this is a good start right here.

14) Obama’s administration gave guns to Mexican cartels that were used to murder hundreds of Mexicans and border agent Brian Terry. The Obama Administration has refused to cooperate with the investigation or hold anyone accountable for that illegal behavior.

15) The NSA has spied on Americans under Obama.

16) Under Obama, the CIA spied on the Senate.

17) Obama’s campaign contributors at Solyndra were handed 535 million dollars of taxpayer money that the Obama Administration knew they would never be able to pay back before they gave it to them.

18) The IRS targeted Obama’s political enemies including Christian groups, pro-Israel groups, and most prominently, Tea Party groups. The Obama Administration has refused to cooperate with the investigation or hold anyone accountable for the illegal behavior.

19) Numerous donors to Mitt Romney were audited by the IRS after giving him large contributions.

20) When the EPA and IRS were asked to provide emails requested by Congress as part of an investigation into their illegal activities, they’ve claimed over and over again to have lost the information because of “hard drive crashes.” Given that it’s quite easy to back up a hard drive and that they’re required by law to retain that information, it seems likely that they’re habitually destroying evidence to hide their illegal activities.


21) Veterans received poor health care and even died because of the incompetence and cover-ups of Obama’s VA.

22) Even Barney Frank admits Barack Obama shamelessly lied to the American people to get Obamacare passed – and lie, he did. He promised that Americans could keep their insurance plans, that they could keep their doctors, and that Obamacare would save the average family $2500 per year. Not only were all of those lies, Obama knew they were lies when he made those promises.

what is relevant to the Iran deal?

I don't know. I'm just wondering why leftists cannot defend their ideas very well and instead resort to personal attacks, name calling and brushing off legitimate problems with their ideologies.

Well, I looked for previous posts by you that would identify what was lacking in the deal requiring the US to back out, and didn't see anything. I think the deal lacked on missile research and support in Yemen. I don't think we were going to get intl support for that, so the question was whether the deal was still worth doing, and imo it beat the alternative: war. And, I don't see it in Americas interest to concern itself with Hamas or Hezbollah with Israel. And Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syria are issues that don't involve nuclear arms

Well, how do we benefit from this deal? it seems like a big risk for very LITTLE if any benefit at all, and I certainly do not believe for a second that the Iranians are not going to take this technology and use it against us at some point in the future, either as leverage or, something else. Insane people are not predictable.

the deal is dead. What we got was iaea inspections. And we were the only one of the coalition that gave a rats ass about Israel and Iran. The remaining countries in the coalition will keep the trading of oil and goods.

It would seem that Netanyahoo wants a return to neocons threateing to bomb Tehran over Hezbollah.

The IAEA can't still do inspections? I just don't see why we need to be a part of making any deals whatsoever with Iran. This should be a European country's deal, not our deal, considering many of them have more of a vested interest in Iran and it's oil than we do.

We don't really know what the "right" thing to do is in dealing with a rogue nation like Iran. Anything at any time could upset them and change the course of things. Not getting ourselves in their problems is probably the best solution for the US as far as relations with Iran are concerned. Let someone else deal with them. Let them be mad at someone else for a change.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It's going to be interesting to see the reaction of the other signatory countries.
If they choose to defy Trump then they could lend directly to Iran through their central banks for example.
After all...the signatories to the agreement are countries, not private companies or banks.

Our country did not sign any agreement. Failed former President Barack Hussein Obama alone signed an executive order which had numerous secret components unknown to even our own congress.

Moreover, Iran refused to sign JCPOA.

Huh?

Yep, Iran refused to sign it and Obama didn't insist.

President Obama didn’t require Iranian leaders to sign the nuclear deal that his team negotiated with the regime, and the deal is not “legally binding,” his administration acknowledged in a letter to Representative Mike Pompeo (R., Kan.) obtained by National Review.

“The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) is not a treaty or an executive agreement, and is not a signed document,” wrote Julia Frifield, the State Department assistant secretary for legislative affairs, in the November 19 letter.

State Department: Iran Deal Not 'Legally Binding' and Iran Didn't Sign It | [site:name] | National Review

Interesting.
Nevertheless, it's a commitment from the other signatories to treat Iran according to how they act.

There is no commitment. JCPOA is non binding according to Obama's State Department. It is simply a plan of action, not a commitment to take any sort of action. In any case, JCPOA was built on the promise of sanctions relief and now the sanctions are back and they are not going away until all the issues President Trump has identified have been corrected and there is nothing the E3 or Russia or China can do about it. Already, there are indications that while the E3 are urging Iran to abide by JCPOA, they are preparing to join the US in demanding additional agreements to form a more comprehensive and rigorous set of agreements concerning not only Iran's quest for nuclear weapons and delivery systems but its imperialist wars and support of terrorism.

 

[toomuchtime_]

No one is pushing toward war. The US is pushing toward negotiations and is using economic sanctions to push.

We have less leverage than we had before

Trump will have a difficult time rebuilding the terms he had before

We had no leverage before because after Obama, no one, especially Iran, took the US seriously. Now the US has enormous leverage because the sanctions will be destroying the Iranian economy. If you recall, it was Obama who said it was the sanctions that gave him the leverage to get Iran to the table before.

Didn’t take Obama seriously?
Russia, China, France, UK and Germany were in on the agreement

Who is Trump going to get to agree with him now after he unilaterally destroyed the last agreement?

Which one of those countries has the balls to stop Trump from destroying Iran's nuke refineries................

Those countries have the balls to tell Trump to fuck himself on worldwide sanctions

As far as they are concerned, Iran is in compliance

They have already given up fighting the US and are now preparing to join the US in demanding new agreements from Iran concerning flaws in JCPOA, its missile development, its imperialist wars and its support of terrorism.

 

[bendog]

what is relevant to the Iran deal?

I don't know. I'm just wondering why leftists cannot defend their ideas very well and instead resort to personal attacks, name calling and brushing off legitimate problems with their ideologies.

Well, I looked for previous posts by you that would identify what was lacking in the deal requiring the US to back out, and didn't see anything. I think the deal lacked on missile research and support in Yemen. I don't think we were going to get intl support for that, so the question was whether the deal was still worth doing, and imo it beat the alternative: war. And, I don't see it in Americas interest to concern itself with Hamas or Hezbollah with Israel. And Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syria are issues that don't involve nuclear arms

Well, how do we benefit from this deal? it seems like a big risk for very LITTLE if any benefit at all, and I certainly do not believe for a second that the Iranians are not going to take this technology and use it against us at some point in the future, either as leverage or, something else. Insane people are not predictable.

the deal is dead. What we got was iaea inspections. And we were the only one of the coalition that gave a rats ass about Israel and Iran. The remaining countries in the coalition will keep the trading of oil and goods.

It would seem that Netanyahoo wants a return to neocons threateing to bomb Tehran over Hezbollah.

The IAEA can't still do inspections? I just don't see why we need to be a part of making any deals whatsoever with Iran. This should be a European country's deal, not our deal, considering many of them have more of a vested interest in Iran and it's oil than we do.

We don't really know what the "right" thing to do is in dealing with a rogue nation like Iran. Anything at any time could upset them and change the course of things. Not getting ourselves in their problems is probably the best solution for the US as far as relations with Iran are concerned. Let someone else deal with them. Let them be mad at someone else for a change.

The IAEA can if Iran agrees.

 

[toomuchtime_]

No they won't. Any large company or bank that violates US sanctions will lose access to the US market, which means they will lose money if they do business with Iran.

It's going to be interesting to see the reaction of the other signatory countries.
If they choose to defy Trump then they could lend directly to Iran through their central banks for example.
After all...the signatories to the agreement are countries, not private companies or banks.

That makes no sense. You think the they will lend Iran hundreds of billions of dollars when their own companies cannot do business with Iran without losing money? What would they gain?

What...is Trump going to punish a sovereign country that lends to Iran?

Why would European countries want to lend Iran money? Their companies will still not be able to do business with Iran without losing money.

Why not?
Plenty of money in Iranian oil

If companies violate US sanctions they lose access to the US market and that will cost them more than they can hope to make from doing business with Iran.

 

[Thinker101]

TownHall?

Here are just a couple of the issues that I challenge you to defend. I have more, but I think this is a good start right here.

14) Obama’s administration gave guns to Mexican cartels that were used to murder hundreds of Mexicans and border agent Brian Terry. The Obama Administration has refused to cooperate with the investigation or hold anyone accountable for that illegal behavior.

15) The NSA has spied on Americans under Obama.

16) Under Obama, the CIA spied on the Senate.

17) Obama’s campaign contributors at Solyndra were handed 535 million dollars of taxpayer money that the Obama Administration knew they would never be able to pay back before they gave it to them.

18) The IRS targeted Obama’s political enemies including Christian groups, pro-Israel groups, and most prominently, Tea Party groups. The Obama Administration has refused to cooperate with the investigation or hold anyone accountable for the illegal behavior.

19) Numerous donors to Mitt Romney were audited by the IRS after giving him large contributions.

20) When the EPA and IRS were asked to provide emails requested by Congress as part of an investigation into their illegal activities, they’ve claimed over and over again to have lost the information because of “hard drive crashes.” Given that it’s quite easy to back up a hard drive and that they’re required by law to retain that information, it seems likely that they’re habitually destroying evidence to hide their illegal activities.


21) Veterans received poor health care and even died because of the incompetence and cover-ups of Obama’s VA.

22) Even Barney Frank admits Barack Obama shamelessly lied to the American people to get Obamacare passed – and lie, he did. He promised that Americans could keep their insurance plans, that they could keep their doctors, and that Obamacare would save the average family $2500 per year. Not only were all of those lies, Obama knew they were lies when he made those promises.

what is relevant to the Iran deal?

I don't know. I'm just wondering why leftists cannot defend their ideas very well and instead resort to personal attacks, name calling and brushing off legitimate problems with their ideologies.

Well, I looked for previous posts by you that would identify what was lacking in the deal requiring the US to back out, and didn't see anything. I think the deal lacked on missile research and support in Yemen. I don't think we were going to get intl support for that, so the question was whether the deal was still worth doing, and imo it beat the alternative: war. And, I don't see it in Americas interest to concern itself with Hamas or Hezbollah with Israel. And Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syria are issues that don't involve nuclear arms

Well, how do we benefit from this deal? it seems like a big risk for very LITTLE if any benefit at all, and I certainly do not believe for a second that the Iranians are not going to take this technology and use it against us at some point in the future, either as leverage or, something else. Insane people are not predictable.

Although we can pretty much say the Iranians will do something insane.

 

[Rosy]

No one is pushing toward war. The US is pushing toward negotiations and is using economic sanctions to push.

We have less leverage than we had before

Trump will have a difficult time rebuilding the terms he had before

We had no leverage before because after Obama, no one, especially Iran, took the US seriously. Now the US has enormous leverage because the sanctions will be destroying the Iranian economy. If you recall, it was Obama who said it was the sanctions that gave him the leverage to get Iran to the table before.

Didn’t take Obama seriously?
Russia, China, France, UK and Germany were in on the agreement

Who is Trump going to get to agree with him now after he unilaterally destroyed the last agreement?

Which one of those countries has the balls to stop Trump from destroying Iran's nuke refineries................

Those countries have the balls to tell Trump to fuck himself on worldwide sanctions

As far as they are concerned, Iran is in compliance

There is no agreement for Iran to be in compliance with. So Iran is in compliance and building nukes, because Obama is a Muslim terrorist

 

[DrLove]

Ho Hum - 31 pages and STILL Bupkis

Sad

 

[Markle]

the deal is dead. What we got was iaea inspections. And we were the only one of the coalition that gave a rats ass about Israel and Iran. The remaining countries in the coalition will keep the trading of oil and goods.

It would seem that Netanyahoo wants a return to neocons threateing to bomb Tehran over Hezbollah.

Your desperation and ignorance are duly noted.

In a pigs eye, we got IAEA inspections.

Iran says military sites are off-limits for nuclear inspections despite U.S. pressure

By SHASHANK BENGALI and RAMIN MOSTAGHIM
AUG 30, 2017 | 11:40 AM
| TEHRAN

Iran says military sites are off-limits for nuclear inspections despite U.S. pressure

###

By REBECCA KAPLAN CBS NEWS July 14, 2015, 10:40 PM
Obama says inspectors get access to "any" site in Iran. Is it true?

[...]

If inspectors have concerns that Iran is developing its nuclear capabilities at any of the non-official nuclear sites, they are allowed to request access "for the sole reason to verify the absence of undeclared nuclear materials and activities or activities inconsistent with" the agreement. They must also inform Iran of the basis for their concerns.

Iran, in response, can propose alternatives to inspection that might satisfy the IAEA's concerns, the deal says. But if they can't come to an agreement to satisfy the inspectors within 14 days of the original request for access, the issue goes to a joint commission that consists of representatives from the P5+1 powers (the U.S., China, Russia, France, the United Kingdom and Germany), Iran, and the European High Representative for Foreign Affairs. They have another seven days to reach an agreement that must be supported at least five of the eight members. If they decide inspectors should get access, Iran has three days to provide it.


Play VIDEO
Iran nuclear deal: What are the next steps?
That means a total of 24 days could elapse between the time inspectors first request access to a suspicious site and the time they are allowed entry. The deal does not explicitly state what would happen if the Joint Committee deadlocks, four to four.

"It's not anytime anywhere. It doesn't allow [inspectors] to go to a site and say, 'hey I think something must be going on there, give me 24 hours and I'm in,'" Sharon Squassoni, the director of the Center for Strategic and International Studies' Proliferation Prevention Program, told CBS News.

Squassoni said Iran does have a lot of room to "wiggle out of things" if they don't want to give inspectors access. They could also take advantage of the 24-day delay to pave or paint over evidence of building the components needed to produce a nuclear weapon.

[...]

Obama says inspectors get access to "any" site in Iran. Is it true? - CBS News

 

[bendog]

piss off. We had inspections we don't have now.

 

[bendog]

Here are just a couple of the issues that I challenge you to defend. I have more, but I think this is a good start right here.

14) Obama’s administration gave guns to Mexican cartels that were used to murder hundreds of Mexicans and border agent Brian Terry. The Obama Administration has refused to cooperate with the investigation or hold anyone accountable for that illegal behavior.

15) The NSA has spied on Americans under Obama.

16) Under Obama, the CIA spied on the Senate.

17) Obama’s campaign contributors at Solyndra were handed 535 million dollars of taxpayer money that the Obama Administration knew they would never be able to pay back before they gave it to them.

18) The IRS targeted Obama’s political enemies including Christian groups, pro-Israel groups, and most prominently, Tea Party groups. The Obama Administration has refused to cooperate with the investigation or hold anyone accountable for the illegal behavior.

19) Numerous donors to Mitt Romney were audited by the IRS after giving him large contributions.

20) When the EPA and IRS were asked to provide emails requested by Congress as part of an investigation into their illegal activities, they’ve claimed over and over again to have lost the information because of “hard drive crashes.” Given that it’s quite easy to back up a hard drive and that they’re required by law to retain that information, it seems likely that they’re habitually destroying evidence to hide their illegal activities.


21) Veterans received poor health care and even died because of the incompetence and cover-ups of Obama’s VA.

22) Even Barney Frank admits Barack Obama shamelessly lied to the American people to get Obamacare passed – and lie, he did. He promised that Americans could keep their insurance plans, that they could keep their doctors, and that Obamacare would save the average family $2500 per year. Not only were all of those lies, Obama knew they were lies when he made those promises.

what is relevant to the Iran deal?

I don't know. I'm just wondering why leftists cannot defend their ideas very well and instead resort to personal attacks, name calling and brushing off legitimate problems with their ideologies.

Well, I looked for previous posts by you that would identify what was lacking in the deal requiring the US to back out, and didn't see anything. I think the deal lacked on missile research and support in Yemen. I don't think we were going to get intl support for that, so the question was whether the deal was still worth doing, and imo it beat the alternative: war. And, I don't see it in Americas interest to concern itself with Hamas or Hezbollah with Israel. And Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syria are issues that don't involve nuclear arms

Well, how do we benefit from this deal? it seems like a big risk for very LITTLE if any benefit at all, and I certainly do not believe for a second that the Iranians are not going to take this technology and use it against us at some point in the future, either as leverage or, something else. Insane people are not predictable.

Although we can pretty much say the Iranians will do something insane.

they aren't "insane." They aren't really "anti-American" as to what happens. here. They are definitely "anti-American" to anything in the ME. And they are NOT ok with Israel existing. They will do something and we won't like it.

 

[Markle]

The IAEA can't still do inspections? I just don't see why we need to be a part of making any deals whatsoever with Iran. This should be a European country's deal, not our deal, considering many of them have more of a vested interest in Iran and it's oil than we do.

We don't really know what the "right" thing to do is in dealing with a rogue nation like Iran. Anything at any time could upset them and change the course of things. Not getting ourselves in their problems is probably the best solution for the US as far as relations with Iran are concerned. Let someone else deal with them. Let them be mad at someone else for a change.

Who do you suggest fill the vacuum should you get your wish and the United States abandons its responsibility in the world? Please be specific. As you know, it was ISIS and Russia who filled the vacuum in Iraq when failed President Barack Hussein Obama, against all advice, pulled all our troops out of that country. Is that your solution?

Please note my previous post regarding a farce of an inspection plan.

 

[Markle]

piss off. We had inspections we don't have now.

Why lie? Or is it just inherent with Progressives?

 

[Markle]

[re nuclear inspections] The IAEA can if Iran agrees.

 

[harmonica]

not to subjugate of occupy--but for self defense/stop the aggression/etc

Above, the equivalent of...."well, Mrs. Lincoln, maybe Booth just didn't like the way the play was going...."

sorry --big difference--try something else

 

[healthmyths]

There is absolutely NO gains to be had for our country, if the buffoon-in-chief unilaterally pulls the U.S. out of the Iran deal........with 2 "notable" exception,of course.

First, Trump's jealousy and his cult followers hatred of Obama gains some solace....and

Second, we are (once again) acting like the "tail" wagging, to the "dog" that is Israel's current junta.

First there was NO official signature from anyone in the government per the below statement:

“The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) is
not a treaty or
an executive agreement, and

is not a signed document,”
wrote Julia Frifield, the State Department assistant secretary for legislative affairs, in the November 19 letter.
State Department: Iran Deal Not 'Legally Binding' and Iran Didn't Sign It | [site:name] | National Review

2nd I guess you didn't know that:
The Congressional Research Service, the nonpartisan analytic arm of Congress, reviewed this cash transfer in a 2018 report. It gave a total of $1.7 billion.
That was the amount that U.S. and Iranian negotiators settled on to resolve an arms contract between the United States and Iran that predated the Iranian revolution in 1979.
Iran had paid for military equipment, and it was never delivered.
As of 1990, there were $400 million in that account.
Negotiators agreed that accrued interest would add $1.3 billion to the amount, which is a lot of money — but 25 years is a long time for interest to build up the balance.
Remember this is money that was paid by Iran before the ayatollahs take over in 1979 for equipment.
Donald Trump: Iran got $150 billion and $1.8 billion in cash

Now the dumb ass Kerry/et.al. said OK we'll release this money if you release the prisoners.
Wow! Such a deal!

Guess what the Iranians did with the $1.7 billion?
The State Department is staying silent after Iranian officials disclosed that the Islamic Republic spent a recent payment by the United States of $1.7 billion in taxpayer funds to expand and build-up its military, according to comments provided to the Washington Free Beacon.
Iran Spends $1.7 Billion in U.S. Taxpayer Funds to Boost Military

Right... a lot of "peaceful" intentions Mr. Kerry/Obama was purchased with that $1.7 billion!

 

[Kondor3]

List EXACTLY what the U.S. gains in pulling out of Iran deal

An (eventual) excuse for War against the Ayatollahs and their Revolutionary Guards.

 

[Dragonlady]

What will happen is that Russia, China, Great Britain, France, Germany and Iran will go ahead with the deal. The US will be in the same position as with the Trans Pacific Partnership. Pulling out of a financially beneficial arrangement just because Obama negotiated it. Talk about a guy who has a small hands problem.

The USA became very wealthy on globalism. Now because American corporations are busily exploiting what amount to slave market conditions in many third world economies, low wage American workers have become expendable. They are fewer and fewer jobs paying middle class wages and more and more qualified applicants for those that do.

In 1980, before Ronald Reagan, you had a 20% chance of working your way out of poverty through education and hard work. Today a child born in poverty has a 2% chance of working his/her way out of it.

This is the legacy of three generations of Republicans rewriting the tax codes and running up huge deficits in the wake of tax cuts to the wealthy. This theft of the wealth of the American working people for generations to come, to the benefit of Trump and his rich buddies, is the most openly corrupt and self serving tax grab in history.

Trump has a history of walking away with his pockets full of cash and leaving a bankrupt shell behind. He did say that he was going to run the Country like his own business, so the similarity shouldn’t surprise you.

 

[Coyote]

The IAEA can't still do inspections? I just don't see why we need to be a part of making any deals whatsoever with Iran. This should be a European country's deal, not our deal, considering many of them have more of a vested interest in Iran and it's oil than we do.

We don't really know what the "right" thing to do is in dealing with a rogue nation like Iran. Anything at any time could upset them and change the course of things. Not getting ourselves in their problems is probably the best solution for the US as far as relations with Iran are concerned. Let someone else deal with them. Let them be mad at someone else for a change.

Who do you suggest fill the vacuum should you get your wish and the United States abandons its responsibility in the world? Please be specific. As you know, it was ISIS and Russia who filled the vacuum in Iraq when failed President Barack Hussein Obama, against all advice, pulled all our troops out of that country. Is that your solution?

Please note my previous post regarding a farce of an inspection plan.

The US has already abandoned it’s responsibility.