List the good thing about Obama care...

[Stephanie]

the people of the government can't have sick subjects so they have to force people to get preventive health care..

and the drones will go along with it..

 

[Redfish]

Well, just talking off the top of my head I can list a few good things.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.

You can stay on your parents plan until you are 26.

You can keep the insurance you have or you can pick one of the exchanges and more info. is coming out about them in October.

If you have Medicare the doughnut hole will slowly start closing and eventually be gone.

More preventative services will be covered under Medicare that were not before.

Medicaid coverage will expand for folks that need it.

I'm sure there's more if I went and looked but this is just a few basic points.

And all of that is free, Free, FREE! Right?

No imbecile, it's not free. That's why the arguments from dullards like you are so easy to defeat.

all of us, every fricken one of us, will be paying more than we are paying today, and the quality of service will not be as good. What a deal

 

[blackhawk]

List the good thing about Obama care...I wish to hear your case. Argue on why it is good.

How will it strengthen medical innovation?
Will it give people cheaper medical insurance?
Will the quality of health care remain or increase???

You can not be denied coverage over a pre existing condition and that is the only thing I think is good about it.

 

[francoHFW]

None of the horrors Pubs and their silly dupes have gone on about have actually happened- it's guaranteed and affordable, fixes the worst hold on our economy, and any unforeseen problems can be fixed. They'll be tinkering with this forever. As always, any problems are caused by mindless Pub obstruction so far. BOUNCED in 2014 lol.

 

[Stephanie]

None of the horrors Pubs and their silly dupes have gone on about have actually happened- it's guaranteed and affordable, fixes the worst hold on our economy, and any unforeseen problems can be fixed. They'll be tinkering with this forever. As always, any problems are caused by mindless Pub obstruction so far. BOUNCED in 2014 lol.

well you got one thing right, they will be trying to fix it forever, like the post office, amtrak and everything the government has their hands in...now it will be our health care..that should make you all fweel warm and fuzzy

 

[boedicca]

The only good thing about ObamaCare is that it finally may be the Big Government Jumps The Shark Singularity.

 

[LoneLaugher]

It has got to be an uncomfortable feeling to know that you are arguing an issue with talking points that have already been proven wrong. And nutters do it with so many issues. In the end, what we get is "this is the worst piece of legislation in the history of the USA!!!!"....."this monstrosity is a disaster"........blah blah fucking blah.

As this moderate approach to addressing the problem of controlling health care costs rolls out and has a positive impact, you can count on our nutters to seek out every little stumble or inconvenience. It will be sad to watch.

 

[FA_Q2]

It's mind boggling to watch you idiots absolutely REFUSE to even take one minute to actually learn what the legislation does and does not do.

The growing desperation in their anti-ACA tirades in recent months suggests to me that the realities of what it's doing are sinking in: better care, slower cost growth, more access.

Most folks in the real world are going to find those to be good things, not cause for incoherent anger.

I really have to wonder why so many are working so hard to bring down the ACA before it is even fully implemented yet.

How about a wait and see attitude because it's coming, like it or not.

I think there are some folks that are scared to death this might be a successful program because it might actually make Obama look good and there is a huge anti-Obama element to all this bashing of a healthcare program that will give more people health insurance and more access to care.

Really sad.

There are those that fit your last statement but those are always there – the partisan hacks that cant see the light for the letter next to the name. Those are irrelevant.

As for me, I oppose Obamacare for several reasons and now is the time to oppose it. There simply is no way of going back. Each day that passes is going to make it that much harder rolling this program back and replacing it. It is essentially impossible now but I will not end my opposition to the program because it is difficult or unlikely.

First, this represents an unprecedented increase in governmental taxing power. Something that has never before been done the government now has precedent to do: FORCE you to partake in an economic activity. The justices used a simple analogy, they said that the government is saying it has the right to fine you if you do not purchase a certain number of apples a year. That right has now been affirmed and that is flat out insane. For that reason alone, I will oppose Obamacare. That expansion is GOING to haunt us later, I guarantee it and it might be far worse than the ‘solution’ here giving them that kind of influence and control over your life.

Second, what Obamacare did was combine that new, unprecedented, power with a mandate that you make that purchase from a company! Let that sink in. A company that is supposed to work for you is now in complete control because you are MANDATED to purchase their product. I have seen what happens in these situations and it is not pretty. That company no longer has any commitment to you or your business. What are you going to do, not buy their product? Oh sorry, that’s not legal. With legally madate4d profit margins and a captured customer base, that insurance company no longer even serves a purpose other than to take your money. Before, there was at least a business in assessing risk, a practice that no longer is allowed. THAT is statist to the core, a corporatocracy. So obvious and so blatant that it is scary the government even thought they could do it and even more frightening that they actually accomplished it.

Third, Costs are slowing a bit but it is not far enough to determine that this is going to be a trend and not a singular blip as things gear up. There is little reason that ‘free’ care is going to cost less as it is going to get used more often. That is a simple fact. When people are not charged for the use of a service, they use the ever living shit out of that service. Again, I have seen that and it is not pretty. People will begin to sue their doctors every damn time the get the hiccups. While PREVENTIVE care here is a good move, the overuse of medical care for things that people do not need to go to the doctor for will be huge and NONE of that has set in yet. The root problems with cost have also not been addressed as they actually added taxes onto new medical equipment (that was completely asinine), defensive medicine has not been addressed and above all, competition is still not being allowed in the marketplace. That is one of the MAJOR driving factors of cost right now, there is ZERO competition in the market. None at all. Introducing real competition would affect prices by huge amounts.

Fourth, on those same lines, they have gone in the exact opposite direction that they needed to go by attacking employers and incentivizing employer provide3d health insurance. This is a terrible idea and another reason that the market is in shambles today. Employer provided care means that the insurance company is looking out for the employers interests (they are the customer) and the employer is looking out for the cost (as they are paying) and the doctor is looking out for the insurance company (they are actually HIS customer) and that leave no one actually looking out for your interests. When YOU buy your insurance you hold them accountable if they are not servicing you properly or you can hold them responsible if they do not cover doctors that you approve of. With the employer taking over the payment, you no longer have that ability. Even more so, employer provided insurance has removed even more competition from the market. If anything, that should have been illegalized rather than encouraged.

Fifth, and finally, we are ceding to the federal government to define the coverage limits that are available and required. The level of corruption that is involved in that is insane. We can take the obvious example of BC pills to illustrate this. BC pills are mandated that they are not only offered but are offered as free. That is clearly a political decision made for corrupt purposes and campaign stumping. My sons chemotherapy pills are not free and if he does not get those, he dies. You don’t get birth control pills, you have to abstain from sex. Somehow, I don’t see why one is free and the other not. Now, less controversial but by extension, what do you think the association of chiropractors is going to do now? Get a lobby going to ensure that coverage is mandated for them as well. You see where this is going now don’t you? The government is going to start mandating things that should not be mandatory coverage items. They are already doing it under the last system, it is only going to get FAR worse when they can mandate free coverage and you are a captured consumer.

As a side note, you are incorrect about keeping your own plan if you want. I don’t really care about this BUT the reality is that if your plan does not fit the governmental approved coverage or your employer cases to offer that plan because Obamacare, you can’t keep it. I believe that this scenario is going to be far more likely than those that can keep their coverage.

 

[Greenbeard]

So what are you going to tell us next that people will live to 800 years old under Obozo care? your nose is growing Pinocchio and you run around on other forums dry humping Obozo care. your a paid hack...

Your paranoia aside (I've come to understand this is pretty deeply ingrained in the rightwing psyche), people living for eight centuries is not the next step above the current level of quality we enjoy now. This notion that our system is perfect now is absolutely false.

This has been known for a long time but certainly it's been widely recognized that we have a quality chasm in this country since the Institute of Medicine gave us that phrase in their 2001 report on the state of quality in American health care.

The U.S. health care delivery system does not provide consistent, high quality medical care to all people. Americans should be able to count on receiving care that meets their needs and is based on the best scientific knowledge--yet there is strong evidence that this frequently is not the case. Health care harms patients too frequently and routinely fails to deliver its potential benefits. Indeed, between the health care that we now have and the health care that we could have lies not just a gap, but a chasm.

A number of factors have combined to create this chasm. Medical science and technology have advanced at an unprecedented rate during the past half-century. In tandem has come growing complexity of health care, which today is characterized by more to know, more to do, more to manage, more to watch, and more people involved than ever before. Faced with such rapid changes, the nation’s health care delivery system has fallen far short in its ability to translate knowledge into practice and to apply new technology safely and appropriately. And if the system cannot consistently deliver today’s science and technology, it is even less prepared to respond to the extraordinary advances that surely will emerge during the coming decades.

The public’s health care needs have changed as well. Americans are living longer, due at least in part to advances in medical science and technology, and with this aging population comes an increase in the incidence and prevalence of chronic conditions. Such conditions, including heart disease, diabetes, and asthma, are now the leading cause of illness, disability, and death. But today’s health system remains overly devoted to dealing with acute, episodic care needs. There is a dearth of clinical programs with the multidisciplinary infrastructure required to provide the full complement of services needed by people with common chronic conditions.

The health care delivery system also is poorly organized to meet the challenges at hand. The delivery of care often is overly complex and uncoordinated, requiring steps and patient “handoffs” that slow down care and decrease rather than improve safety. These cumbersome processes waste resources; leave unaccountable voids in coverage; lead to loss of information; and fail to build on the strengths of all health professionals involved to ensure that care is appropriate, timely, and safe. Organizational problems are particularly apparent regarding chronic conditions. The fact that more than 40 percent of people with chronic conditions have more than one such condition argues strongly for more sophisticated mechanisms to coordinate care. Yet health care organizations, hospitals, and physician groups typically operate as separate “silos,” acting without the benefit of complete information about the patient’s condition, medical history, services provided in other settings, or medications provided by other clinicians.

We've let that state of affairs linger for far too long, it's time to get to work.

It's mind boggling to watch you idiots absolutely REFUSE to even take one minute to actually learn what the legislation does and does not do.

The growing desperation in their anti-ACA tirades in recent months suggests to me that the realities of what it's doing are sinking in: better care, slower cost growth, more access.

Most folks in the real world are going to find those to be good things, not cause for incoherent anger.

tell us again, what planet are you posting from?

Earth. I'm unsurprised that you don't recognize it. Perhaps open a newspaper sometime?

 

[regent]

One of the good things about Obama-Care is first the name, but the biggest thing is that it is a beginning. In 100 years or so Obama-Care will be smoothed out to work as it should have worked in the original bill. In a democracy our representatives have to represent their political party first so these laws often take time to achieve what they are capable of achieving. We're still working on Social Security.

should we all be bowing to Obama and kissing the ground he walks on?

You can if you like, I'm not.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Well, just talking off the top of my head I can list a few good things.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.

You can stay on your parents plan until you are 26.

You can keep the insurance you have or you can pick one of the exchanges and more info. is coming out about them in October.

If you have Medicare the doughnut hole will slowly start closing and eventually be gone.

More preventative services will be covered under Medicare that were not before.

Medicaid coverage will expand for folks that need it.

I'm sure there's more if I went and looked but this is just a few basic points.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.


that to me is a plus i have known quite a few people who had both happen....especially being dropped because you happen to have gotten "too" ill....

 

[boedicca]

It has got to be an uncomfortable feeling to know that you are arguing an issue with talking points that have already been proven wrong. And nutters do it with so many issues. In the end, what we get is "this is the worst piece of legislation in the history of the USA!!!!"....."this monstrosity is a disaster"........blah blah fucking blah.

As this moderate approach to addressing the problem of controlling health care costs rolls out and has a positive impact, you can count on our nutters to seek out every little stumble or inconvenience. It will be sad to watch.

Poor widdle delusional LL.

They can't even get the computer systems to work properly, despite spending billions of dollars.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Nope, it isn't free and it isn't perfect. I think it's a good start but more can be done to improve it. I wish they would of included a public option or expanded Medicare availability for everyone to buy into depending on income.

I think that would of helped bring down cost-more options for folks.

It isn't free. It isn't close to free. It is very expensive and will deliver sub-par results. That is guaranteed.

Is this your opinion or a fact? I think it will actually increase the quality of healthcare for people because more preventative services will be available at no charge and more people are likely to go in for testing for things that will actually save money as they can be caught earlier.

I also think the cost of the uninsured that go to the ER for care will drop.

i dont.....there are MANY people right now who have excellent ins plans who dont go in for check ups.....so i dont see how that will change much......there are LOTS of men over 50 who will not go in for a Colonoscopy BECAUSE....."there aint no one who is going to stick anything up my ass"......i have heard this so many times from guys my age .....

 

[Harry Dresden]

It isn't free. It isn't close to free. It is very expensive and will deliver sub-par results. That is guaranteed.

Is this your opinion or a fact? I think it will actually increase the quality of healthcare for people because more preventative services will be available at no charge and more people are likely to go in for testing for things that will actually save money as they can be caught earlier.

I also think the cost of the uninsured that go to the ER for care will drop.

if its so great why has congress and the administration exempted themselves from it? why have unions requested waivers? why have corporations that supported obama been given waivers?

its the worst piece of legislation in the history of the USA, and there have been some really bad ones.

i can tell you why.....i have the same thing they now have.....its ten times better than this thing they are offering..........

 

[Greenbeard]

There are those that fit your last statement but those are always there – the partisan hacks that cant see the light for the letter next to the name. Those are irrelevant.

As for me, I oppose Obamacare for several reasons and now is the time to oppose it. There simply is no way of going back. Each day that passes is going to make it that much harder rolling this program back and replacing it. It is essentially impossible now but I will not end my opposition to the program because it is difficult or unlikely.

First, this represents an unprecedented increase in governmental taxing power. Something that has never before been done the government now has precedent to do: FORCE you to partake in an economic activity. The justices used a simple analogy, they said that the government is saying it has the right to fine you if you do not purchase a certain number of apples a year. That right has now been affirmed and that is flat out insane. For that reason alone, I will oppose Obamacare. That expansion is GOING to haunt us later, I guarantee it and it might be far worse than the ‘solution’ here giving them that kind of influence and control over your life.

Second, what Obamacare did was combine that new, unprecedented, power with a mandate that you make that purchase from a company! Let that sink in. A company that is supposed to work for you is now in complete control because you are MANDATED to purchase their product. I have seen what happens in these situations and it is not pretty. That company no longer has any commitment to you or your business. What are you going to do, not buy their product? Oh sorry, that’s not legal. With legally madate4d profit margins and a captured customer base, that insurance company no longer even serves a purpose other than to take your money. Before, there was at least a business in assessing risk, a practice that no longer is allowed. THAT is statist to the core, a corporatocracy. So obvious and so blatant that it is scary the government even thought they could do it and even more frightening that they actually accomplished it.

Third, Costs are slowing a bit but it is not far enough to determine that this is going to be a trend and not a singular blip as things gear up. There is little reason that ‘free’ care is going to cost less as it is going to get used more often. That is a simple fact. When people are not charged for the use of a service, they use the ever living shit out of that service. Again, I have seen that and it is not pretty. People will begin to sue their doctors every damn time the get the hiccups. While PREVENTIVE care here is a good move, the overuse of medical care for things that people do not need to go to the doctor for will be huge and NONE of that has set in yet. The root problems with cost have also not been addressed as they actually added taxes onto new medical equipment (that was completely asinine), defensive medicine has not been addressed and above all, competition is still not being allowed in the marketplace. That is one of the MAJOR driving factors of cost right now, there is ZERO competition in the market. None at all. Introducing real competition would affect prices by huge amounts.

Fourth, on those same lines, they have gone in the exact opposite direction that they needed to go by attacking employers and incentivizing employer provide3d health insurance. This is a terrible idea and another reason that the market is in shambles today. Employer provided care means that the insurance company is looking out for the employers interests (they are the customer) and the employer is looking out for the cost (as they are paying) and the doctor is looking out for the insurance company (they are actually HIS customer) and that leave no one actually looking out for your interests. When YOU buy your insurance you hold them accountable if they are not servicing you properly or you can hold them responsible if they do not cover doctors that you approve of. With the employer taking over the payment, you no longer have that ability. Even more so, employer provided insurance has removed even more competition from the market. If anything, that should have been illegalized rather than encouraged.

Fifth, and finally, we are ceding to the federal government to define the coverage limits that are available and required. The level of corruption that is involved in that is insane. We can take the obvious example of BC pills to illustrate this. BC pills are mandated that they are not only offered but are offered as free. That is clearly a political decision made for corrupt purposes and campaign stumping. My sons chemotherapy pills are not free and if he does not get those, he dies. You don’t get birth control pills, you have to abstain from sex. Somehow, I don’t see why one is free and the other not. Now, less controversial but by extension, what do you think the association of chiropractors is going to do now? Get a lobby going to ensure that coverage is mandated for them as well. You see where this is going now don’t you? The government is going to start mandating things that should not be mandatory coverage items. They are already doing it under the last system, it is only going to get FAR worse when they can mandate free coverage and you are a captured consumer.

As a side note, you are incorrect about keeping your own plan if you want. I don’t really care about this BUT the reality is that if your plan does not fit the governmental approved coverage or your employer cases to offer that plan because Obamacare, you can’t keep it. I believe that this scenario is going to be far more likely than those that can keep their coverage.

It's nice to see someone put out well thought out objections (not the standard "this is the worst legislation EVER!!1!!1!").

However, on the actual mechanics of what's going to happen, I think you've got the wrong picture. The point of exchanges is to generate competition and it looks like they're going to be able to do that. New insurers are entering the individual market in many states and there's going to be robust competition on a number of plan options in most places. That's not going to be true everywhere at first, but it looks like 90% of individual market consumers are going to be buying in more competitive markets next year. That's part of why the premiums in the exchanges next year are looking the way they are (i.e. lower than expected).

Moreover, this is competition on price and quality (including things like the provider network included, etc), not on the ability to cull undesirable customers and shed risk. Prices now have meaning, since the market will be organized (i.e. you can make apples-to-apples comparisons between competing bronze plans, or between competing silver plans, etc) and you know what you're getting. Transparency and the ready availability of information important to the decision-making process is going to make things better for consumers, and at the same time it's going to make insurers accountable in a way they haven't been before when they could hide behind a byzantine market structure (see the example out of Oregon in my first post).

More importantly, the employer-based insurance situation is going to evolve over the next decade. The employer mandate isn't there to encourage employers to start offering coverage: ~94% of employers with 50 or more employees already offer coverage. The primary objective is to prevent the erosion of employer-based coverage once the incentives of the individual market change next year.

But small employers are going to be able to use SHOP exchanges beginning next year. In some states next year (and in all states starting in 2015) that's going to allow an employee choice option, meaning employers can specify a contribution and let their employees go shop for coverage on their own, instead of having the employer choose a company plan for everyone. Effectively employer-sponsored coverage will then begin to act more like the individual market, with employees choosing the right plans for their families directly from the marketplace. Starting in 2017, large employers with more than 100 employees can begin entering the exchanges and doing this, as well (this is a state prerogative).

That means even if the percentage of folks with employer-based insurance remains the same, the market and incentives at work are going to shift dramatically over the next decade as more and more people are empowered to make their own choices and do their own shopping.

That's the market for insurance. In the market for actual care, there will be changes to incentives too, since cost-sharing is an important piece of the insurance puzzle. The idea that people aren't going to be charged isn't correct, exchange plans do have a fair amount of cost-sharing. The only things exempt from cost-sharing are evidence-based preventive services. Other things will be subject to deductibles and coinsurance, etc. The exchanges are going to have plenty of plans with enough cost-sharing to qualify for coupling with an HSA if shoppers want that. So the notion that people are about to be getting everything free isn't correct.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Is this your opinion or a fact? I think it will actually increase the quality of healthcare for people because more preventative services will be available at no charge and more people are likely to go in for testing for things that will actually save money as they can be caught earlier.

I also think the cost of the uninsured that go to the ER for care will drop.

It has already been shown that preventative care costs more money than it saves.
As for the ER, why would costs drop? There will be more uninsured people because it will be cheaper to pay the penalty than buy insurance, which can always be purchased when the need arises because insurers cannot deny policies because of pre existing conditions. This is exactly what has happened in MA.

I'm sure you can show me where preventative care costs more money than it saves and more people insured will mean less uninsured will go to the ER which is much more expensive due that just going to your regular Dr.

yea i dont buy that either....

 

[earlycuyler]

List the good thing about Obama care...I wish to hear your case. Argue on why it is good.

How will it strengthen medical innovation?
Will it give people cheaper medical insurance?
Will the quality of health care remain or increase???

The first 11 items were good thinking. In those, covering pre existing conditions and the option to cover the kids until 20 something were found. I honestly cant remember the 8 others. The rest is just stupid. As this has come on (here and in Texas) insurance cost have
Gone way high faster then they were. So the political class did nothing but put real good medical care out of reach for the average person , and stuck us with subpar stuff. Notice the political class ain't lining up to get on Obama care ? The whole thing is noting but legacy building.

 

[Harry Dresden]

It's mind boggling to watch you idiots absolutely REFUSE to even take one minute to actually learn what the legislation does and does not do.

The growing desperation in their anti-ACA tirades in recent months suggests to me that the realities of what it's doing are sinking in: better care, slower cost growth, more access.

Most folks in the real world are going to find those to be good things, not cause for incoherent anger.

you say that Green.....but i have read and seen things on the news saying it aint as rosy as you make it on many of those things you mentioned.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

It has already been shown that preventative care costs more money than it saves.
As for the ER, why would costs drop? There will be more uninsured people because it will be cheaper to pay the penalty than buy insurance, which can always be purchased when the need arises because insurers cannot deny policies because of pre existing conditions. This is exactly what has happened in MA.

I'm sure you can show me where preventative care costs more money than it saves and more people insured will mean less uninsured will go to the ER which is much more expensive due that just going to your regular Dr.

+1

No metric anywhere that I have ever seen has mad that claim. That is nuts. It is general knowledge that early detection is the NUMBER ONE way to prevent massive medical costs unless of course you wait until death. That saves a lot of money but is not really a solution worth getting into…

well that is certainly true with Prostrate and Colon cancer......

 

[Harry Dresden]

And all of that is free, Free, FREE! Right?

No imbecile, it's not free. That's why the arguments from dullards like you are so easy to defeat.

all of us, every fricken one of us, will be paying more than we are paying today, and the quality of service will not be as good. What a deal

thats what i am worried about....my plan i like....they cover everything that any doctor has ordered for me and the wife with very little resistance.....if i dont get the same coverage as i do now but have to pay more for less....i sure as hell dont want it.....