List the good thing about Obama care...

[Harry Dresden]

List the good thing about Obama care...I wish to hear your case. Argue on why it is good.

How will it strengthen medical innovation?
Will it give people cheaper medical insurance?
Will the quality of health care remain or increase???

You can not be denied coverage over a pre existing condition and that is the only thing I think is good about it.

plus they cant give you the boot if you happen to contract a disease or something considered an "expensive" condition....if you agree to insure someone as long as that person is paying into the plan....you should be obligated to take care of that person....right down to the end.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

None of the horrors Pubs and their silly dupes have gone on about have actually happened- it's guaranteed and affordable, fixes the worst hold on our economy, and any unforeseen problems can be fixed. They'll be tinkering with this forever. As always, any problems are caused by mindless Pub obstruction so far. BOUNCED in 2014 lol.

Frankie.....go back to staring at the White noise on the TV....

 

[Harry Dresden]

None of the horrors Pubs and their silly dupes have gone on about have actually happened- it's guaranteed and affordable, fixes the worst hold on our economy, and any unforeseen problems can be fixed. They'll be tinkering with this forever. As always, any problems are caused by mindless Pub obstruction so far. BOUNCED in 2014 lol.

well you got one thing right, they will be trying to fix it forever, like the post office, amtrak and everything the government has their hands in...now it will be our health care..that should make you all fweel warm and fuzzy

they are trying to fix the Post Office?.........a Congressional Committee has been meeting for 2 years and haven't fixed nothing.....thats not even trying.....

 

[lynn63]

Did you know that the government paid 55 million to Quality Software Systems to set up all the exchanges and the medical electronic system that sends all of your medical records to the federal government?

Do you know who owns Quality Software Systems? United Healthcare purchased them in 2012.

Wellpoint purchased Amerigroup for 4.5 billion, Cigna purchased Healthspring for 3.8 billion and Aetna purchased Coventry Healthplan for 5.7 billion. Their purpose was to lock up Medicaid based members and gain the 16 million new enrollees in 2014.

This is where all of your premium costs are being used for and not for your healthcare expenses. Anyone with a high deductible is basically paying their healthcare expenses out of their own pocket.

This entire mandate is for the health insurance companies profit margin. What we get in return is higher premiums, higher out of pocket cost, the risk of losing our jobs if we use our insurance that creates higher cost for the employer, higher taxes, and the list goes on.

 

[FA_Q2]

There are those that fit your last statement but those are always there – the partisan hacks that cant see the light for the letter next to the name. Those are irrelevant.

As for me, I oppose Obamacare for several reasons and now is the time to oppose it. There simply is no way of going back. Each day that passes is going to make it that much harder rolling this program back and replacing it. It is essentially impossible now but I will not end my opposition to the program because it is difficult or unlikely.

First, this represents an unprecedented increase in governmental taxing power. Something that has never before been done the government now has precedent to do: FORCE you to partake in an economic activity. The justices used a simple analogy, they said that the government is saying it has the right to fine you if you do not purchase a certain number of apples a year. That right has now been affirmed and that is flat out insane. For that reason alone, I will oppose Obamacare. That expansion is GOING to haunt us later, I guarantee it and it might be far worse than the ‘solution’ here giving them that kind of influence and control over your life.

Second, what Obamacare did was combine that new, unprecedented, power with a mandate that you make that purchase from a company! Let that sink in. A company that is supposed to work for you is now in complete control because you are MANDATED to purchase their product. I have seen what happens in these situations and it is not pretty. That company no longer has any commitment to you or your business. What are you going to do, not buy their product? Oh sorry, that’s not legal. With legally madate4d profit margins and a captured customer base, that insurance company no longer even serves a purpose other than to take your money. Before, there was at least a business in assessing risk, a practice that no longer is allowed. THAT is statist to the core, a corporatocracy. So obvious and so blatant that it is scary the government even thought they could do it and even more frightening that they actually accomplished it.

Third, Costs are slowing a bit but it is not far enough to determine that this is going to be a trend and not a singular blip as things gear up. There is little reason that ‘free’ care is going to cost less as it is going to get used more often. That is a simple fact. When people are not charged for the use of a service, they use the ever living shit out of that service. Again, I have seen that and it is not pretty. People will begin to sue their doctors every damn time the get the hiccups. While PREVENTIVE care here is a good move, the overuse of medical care for things that people do not need to go to the doctor for will be huge and NONE of that has set in yet. The root problems with cost have also not been addressed as they actually added taxes onto new medical equipment (that was completely asinine), defensive medicine has not been addressed and above all, competition is still not being allowed in the marketplace. That is one of the MAJOR driving factors of cost right now, there is ZERO competition in the market. None at all. Introducing real competition would affect prices by huge amounts.

Fourth, on those same lines, they have gone in the exact opposite direction that they needed to go by attacking employers and incentivizing employer provide3d health insurance. This is a terrible idea and another reason that the market is in shambles today. Employer provided care means that the insurance company is looking out for the employers interests (they are the customer) and the employer is looking out for the cost (as they are paying) and the doctor is looking out for the insurance company (they are actually HIS customer) and that leave no one actually looking out for your interests. When YOU buy your insurance you hold them accountable if they are not servicing you properly or you can hold them responsible if they do not cover doctors that you approve of. With the employer taking over the payment, you no longer have that ability. Even more so, employer provided insurance has removed even more competition from the market. If anything, that should have been illegalized rather than encouraged.

Fifth, and finally, we are ceding to the federal government to define the coverage limits that are available and required. The level of corruption that is involved in that is insane. We can take the obvious example of BC pills to illustrate this. BC pills are mandated that they are not only offered but are offered as free. That is clearly a political decision made for corrupt purposes and campaign stumping. My sons chemotherapy pills are not free and if he does not get those, he dies. You don’t get birth control pills, you have to abstain from sex. Somehow, I don’t see why one is free and the other not. Now, less controversial but by extension, what do you think the association of chiropractors is going to do now? Get a lobby going to ensure that coverage is mandated for them as well. You see where this is going now don’t you? The government is going to start mandating things that should not be mandatory coverage items. They are already doing it under the last system, it is only going to get FAR worse when they can mandate free coverage and you are a captured consumer.

As a side note, you are incorrect about keeping your own plan if you want. I don’t really care about this BUT the reality is that if your plan does not fit the governmental approved coverage or your employer cases to offer that plan because Obamacare, you can’t keep it. I believe that this scenario is going to be far more likely than those that can keep their coverage.

It's nice to see someone put out well thought out objections (not the standard "this is the worst legislation EVER!!1!!1!").

However, on the actual mechanics of what's going to happen, I think you've got the wrong picture. The point of exchanges is to generate competition and it looks like they're going to be able to do that. New insurers are entering the individual market in many states and there's going to be robust competition on a number of plan options in most places. That's not going to be true everywhere at first, but it looks like 90% of individual market consumers are going to be buying in more competitive markets next year. That's part of why the premiums in the exchanges next year are looking the way they are (i.e. lower than expected).

Moreover, this is competition on price and quality (including things like the provider network included, etc), not on the ability to cull undesirable customers and shed risk. Prices now have meaning, since the market will be organized (i.e. you can make apples-to-apples comparisons between competing bronze plans, or between competing silver plans, etc) and you know what you're getting. Transparency and the ready availability of information important to the decision-making process is going to make things better for consumers, and at the same time it's going to make insurers accountable in a way they haven't been before when they could hide behind a byzantine market structure (see the example out of Oregon in my first post).

More importantly, the employer-based insurance situation is going to evolve over the next decade. The employer mandate isn't there to encourage employers to start offering coverage: ~94% of employers with 50 or more employees already offer coverage. The primary objective is to prevent the erosion of employer-based coverage once the incentives of the individual market change next year.

But small employers are going to be able to use SHOP exchanges beginning next year. In some states next year (and in all states starting in 2015) that's going to allow an employee choice option, meaning employers can specify a contribution and let their employees go shop for coverage on their own, instead of having the employer choose a company plan for everyone. Effectively employer-sponsored coverage will then begin to act more like the individual market, with employees choosing the right plans for their families directly from the marketplace. Starting in 2017, large employers with more than 100 employees can begin entering the exchanges and doing this, as well (this is a state prerogative).

That means even if the percentage of folks with employer-based insurance remains the same, the market and incentives at work are going to shift dramatically over the next decade as more and more people are empowered to make their own choices and do their own shopping.

That's the market for insurance. In the market for actual care, there will be changes to incentives too, since cost-sharing is an important piece of the insurance puzzle. The idea that people aren't going to be charged isn't correct, exchange plans do have a fair amount of cost-sharing. The only things exempt from cost-sharing are evidence-based preventive services. Other things will be subject to deductibles and coinsurance, etc. The exchanges are going to have plenty of plans with enough cost-sharing to qualify for coupling with an HSA if shoppers want that. So the notion that people are about to be getting everything free isn't correct.

Need time to chew – will comment later

 

[jasonnfree]

Well, just talking off the top of my head I can list a few good things.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.

You can stay on your parents plan until you are 26.

You can keep the insurance you have or you can pick one of the exchanges and more info. is coming out about them in October.

If you have Medicare the doughnut hole will slowly start closing and eventually be gone.

More preventative services will be covered under Medicare that were not before.

Medicaid coverage will expand for folks that need it.

I'm sure there's more if I went and looked but this is just a few basic points.

I could never figure out this staying on your parent's plan till age 26 provision. Why? Unless it's for disabled children, you become of age at 18.

 

[Londoner]

Without the Public Option - which was designed to break-up Republican protected health insurance monopolies - ObamaCare is bullshit. It merely feeds healthy young people into a monopolized system so that there is more money to pay for the world's most expensive health care system.

ObamaCare is Bob Dole's health care plan, created by the Heritage, a conservative think tank. It's RomneyCare. You can have it. HillaryCare in the 90s was far better. [And guess what the Republicans proposed in place of HillaryCare? Answer: ObamaCare, which leaves the current over-priced, non-competitive system in place, but forces more people into it in order to cut down on free-loaders]

ObamaCare is just another soak the poor/ feed the rich program. The big insurance carriers and their investors are loving it. They now have millions more prisoners to put inside their inflated premiums.

But let's cut to the chase.

Republicans live in fear that ObamaCare will develop into yet another popular middle class program that their voters won't let them kill. This is why they have to kill it now, before the candy gets to their voters. [Look at the problems they have in Florida with their voters and Social Security/Medicare]

If ObamaCare is as bad as they say, than the program will eventually die. But, if the program turns out to be like Social Security and Medicare, than Republican voters won't let them kill it.

Let's face it. Nobody on either side of the aisle understands ObamaCare. Nobody really understood the fine print of Social Security or Medicare. Here is the only thing Republicans understand: if they don't kill it the crib, they might be stuck with it.

Republicans have two goals.

1. Crush the Voting Rights Act so as to make sure African-American turnout never hits the highs it did under the last two presidential elections.

Goal 1 has been achieved by the most activist supreme court in history. The recent ruling makes it possible for many southern states to change voting laws without oversight. Now they can suppress minorities through voter ID laws, restrictions on early voting and other measures. The goal is to make sure less democrats vote. Period.

2. Crush ObamaCare.

Goal 2 will take a little time, but I hope they succeed in killing the very plan they created nearly 20 years ago.

 

[The Rabbi]

It has already been shown that preventative care costs more money than it saves.
As for the ER, why would costs drop? There will be more uninsured people because it will be cheaper to pay the penalty than buy insurance, which can always be purchased when the need arises because insurers cannot deny policies because of pre existing conditions. This is exactly what has happened in MA.

I'm sure you can show me where preventative care costs more money than it saves and more people insured will mean less uninsured will go to the ER which is much more expensive due that just going to your regular Dr.

yea i dont buy that either....

I provided proof that is exactly the case.

 

[Cuyo]

And all of that is free, Free, FREE! Right?

No imbecile, it's not free. That's why the arguments from dullards like you are so easy to defeat.

all of us, every fricken one of us, will be paying more than we are paying today, and the quality of service will not be as good. What a deal

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand I'm sure you base that assertion on absolutely nothing. Thanks for your input. Profound.

*Rolls eyes*

 

[earlycuyler]

Well, just talking off the top of my head I can list a few good things.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.

You can stay on your parents plan until you are 26.

You can keep the insurance you have or you can pick one of the exchanges and more info. is coming out about them in October.

If you have Medicare the doughnut hole will slowly start closing and eventually be gone.

More preventative services will be covered under Medicare that were not before.

Medicaid coverage will expand for folks that need it.

I'm sure there's more if I went and looked but this is just a few basic points.

I could never figure out this staying on your parent's plan till age 26 provision. Why? Unless it's for disabled children, you become of age at 18.

This one I can get with. I had my Son on until this year. It helped him get going, son
So now,he is 100% on his own. You don't have to put them on, but its a good option to have. This was not the presidents compulsion as much as legacy building was and is.

 

[The Rabbi]

No imbecile, it's not free. That's why the arguments from dullards like you are so easy to defeat.

all of us, every fricken one of us, will be paying more than we are paying today, and the quality of service will not be as good. What a deal

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand I'm sure you base that assertion on absolutely nothing. Thanks for your input. Profound.

*Rolls eyes*

It's actually based on the experiene of every state that has rolled out some form of Obamacare. And curiously that is the exact same result: skyrocketing costs and poorer quality.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Well, just talking off the top of my head I can list a few good things.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.

You can stay on your parents plan until you are 26.

You can keep the insurance you have or you can pick one of the exchanges and more info. is coming out about them in October.

If you have Medicare the doughnut hole will slowly start closing and eventually be gone.

More preventative services will be covered under Medicare that were not before.

Medicaid coverage will expand for folks that need it.

I'm sure there's more if I went and looked but this is just a few basic points.

I could never figure out this staying on your parent's plan till age 26 provision. Why? Unless it's for disabled children, you become of age at 18.

It helps those in college for one thing.

 

[Cuyo]

List the good thing about Obama care...I wish to hear your case. Argue on why it is good.

How will it strengthen medical innovation?
Will it give people cheaper medical insurance?
Will the quality of health care remain or increase???

You can not be denied coverage over a pre existing condition and that is the only thing I think is good about it.

plus they cant give you the boot if you happen to contract a disease or something considered an "expensive" condition....if you agree to insure someone as long as that person is paying into the plan....you should be obligated to take care of that person....right down to the end.....

That's the provision that nobody should be against... It should be shocking that an insurance company could drop you the moment you become unprofitable.

Like a car insurance company dumping you the moment you have an accident.

But we'll hear righties argue that the free market should handle it... After your denied and dead you'll learn your lesson and switch insurers I guess.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, just talking off the top of my head I can list a few good things.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.

You can stay on your parents plan until you are 26.

You can keep the insurance you have or you can pick one of the exchanges and more info. is coming out about them in October.

If you have Medicare the doughnut hole will slowly start closing and eventually be gone.

More preventative services will be covered under Medicare that were not before.

Medicaid coverage will expand for folks that need it.

I'm sure there's more if I went and looked but this is just a few basic points.

I could never figure out this staying on your parent's plan till age 26 provision. Why? Unless it's for disabled children, you become of age at 18.

It helps those in college for one thing.

And hurts everyone else.
You get that, right?

 

[The Rabbi]

You can not be denied coverage over a pre existing condition and that is the only thing I think is good about it.

plus they cant give you the boot if you happen to contract a disease or something considered an "expensive" condition....if you agree to insure someone as long as that person is paying into the plan....you should be obligated to take care of that person....right down to the end.....

That's the provision that nobody should be against... It should be shocking that an insurance company could drop you the moment you become unprofitable.

Like a car insurance company dumping you the moment you have an accident.

But we'll hear righties argue that the free market should handle it... After your denied and dead you'll learn your lesson and switch insurers I guess.

Yeah except that isn't what happens. I realize the free market is like another planet to you.

But I'll try to explain. An insurance policy is a contract signed by both sides. The insurer must cover you based on the conditions set forth in the contract. Unfortunately people tend to lie. So when they say they are non smokers and then suffer a massive heart attack at age 35 because they smoke like crazy, the insurance company denies the claim based on the initial fraud of the applicant. Whose fault is that?

 

[Redfish]

plus they cant give you the boot if you happen to contract a disease or something considered an "expensive" condition....if you agree to insure someone as long as that person is paying into the plan....you should be obligated to take care of that person....right down to the end.....

That's the provision that nobody should be against... It should be shocking that an insurance company could drop you the moment you become unprofitable.

Like a car insurance company dumping you the moment you have an accident.

But we'll hear righties argue that the free market should handle it... After your denied and dead you'll learn your lesson and switch insurers I guess.

Yeah except that isn't what happens. I realize the free market is like another planet to you.

But I'll try to explain. An insurance policy is a contract signed by both sides. The insurer must cover you based on the conditions set forth in the contract. Unfortunately people tend to lie. So when they say they are non smokers and then suffer a massive heart attack at age 35 because they smoke like crazy, the insurance company denies the claim based on the initial fraud of the applicant. Whose fault is that?

correct, but you forgot that democrats and liberals believe that lying is OK if it gets you the result you want.

 

[Synthaholic]

So says the local Obamacare flack.

The truth is that it will destroy health care in this country. No system was ever made better by gov't intrusion in the free market.

"In five years all the teabaggers will be screaming "Keep your government hands off my Obamacare"" - Bill Maher

 

[Synthaholic]

Well, just talking off the top of my head I can list a few good things.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.

You can stay on your parents plan until you are 26.

You can keep the insurance you have or you can pick one of the exchanges and more info. is coming out about them in October.

If you have Medicare the doughnut hole will slowly start closing and eventually be gone.

More preventative services will be covered under Medicare that were not before.

Medicaid coverage will expand for folks that need it.

I'm sure there's more if I went and looked but this is just a few basic points.

And all of that is free, Free, FREE! Right?

You're an idiot.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, just talking off the top of my head I can list a few good things.

You will not be denied for a pre-existing condition if you get sick and you won't be kicked off your insurance if you become sick no matter what the condition.

You can stay on your parents plan until you are 26.

You can keep the insurance you have or you can pick one of the exchanges and more info. is coming out about them in October.

If you have Medicare the doughnut hole will slowly start closing and eventually be gone.

More preventative services will be covered under Medicare that were not before.

Medicaid coverage will expand for folks that need it.

I'm sure there's more if I went and looked but this is just a few basic points.

And all of that is free, Free, FREE! Right?

You're an idiot.

Coming from you that's a compliment.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'm sure you can show me where preventative care costs more money than it saves and more people insured will mean less uninsured will go to the ER which is much more expensive due that just going to your regular Dr.

yea i dont buy that either....

I provided proof that is exactly the case.

how is finding out you have prostate cancer early and treating it and beating it.....more expensive than waiting until you have it and now you need surgery and chemo and who knows what else?......same thing with Colon Cancer.....how is a Colonoscopy every few years more expensive than treating someone who has Colon Cancer?....